After a vegan blue cheese won the Good Food Award, panicked dairy cheese makers forced the foundation to disqualify it
After a vegan blue cheese won the Good Food Award, panicked dairy cheese makers forced the foundation to disqualify it
“Our cheese is so good they had to disqualify us” would be my new slogan so fast.
Wasnt that what they did with monty python's holy grial when it was banned in norway*?
I'm closer to a carnivore than a vegan, but if something is good, it's good. I'm not going to hate on something delicious because I feel threatened by someone else's life choices.
Don't worry, farmers; if I start eating vegan cheese I promise I'll make up for it in beef consumption.
A lot of vegan "alternatives" are actually really good when you know what you're doing with them. I will take tofu or mushrooms over meat any day tbh. Problem is some people don't know that and will just prepare tofu like it's meat, and then wonder why their tofu tastes like shit.
I tried tofu multiple times in different meals as a alternative for meat, but sadly all were disappointing. Do you have recipes that you can recommend? I am eager to find one.
That's a really dumb argument. Sorry but literally every food is really good when you know what you are doing with it.
It is not even a question of quality.. some of the tastiest food is terrible quality used with great effect.
That doesn't even take into account personal preference, which is majorly just familiarity.
The awards world is filled with awards that would never be given if there wasnt a story to go with it. This vegan cheese is an example of this as well.
Problem is some people don't know that and will just prepare tofu like it's meat, and then wonder why their tofu tastes like shit.
You arent even wrong about this, but you could say the exact same thing about damned near anything that has more than a single opinion on.
Like literally exchange in what i quoted tofu to a burger patty and instead of "like its meat" change it to some aspect of the experience. Whether its what temperature to cook it or how thin or thick it is.
Same exact argument based on different peoples familiarity. Many people dont have just dont care that much and also some people are really bad at cooking.
To sum up my point, you are making a statement that is so broad it is useless
Would you consider reducing according to carbon footprint?
I live mostly on beer, so I'm doing my part.
I'm also a meat eater but Impossible burgers hold a special place in my heart. If I'm craving a whopper I'll always go for the Impossible whopper instead - it's just so much more satisfying.
Similarly, the meat quality at my local Chinese spots is questionable so I always get tofu instead.
I'm down to only eating meat half of days, and only for dinner, vs eating meat with every meal every day. My wallet and waistline have thanked me.
from personal experience, veggie burgers make excellent topping-condiments to regular burgers
they have all the flavors a burger wants
I like this suggestion. Plus it still ultimately reduces beef consumption because maybe I only eat one of these doubles instead of two burgers.
Damn, who would have thought liking good food would be so controversial xD
Every time I eat vegan cheese my mouth says this ain't quite right. But the taste is usually fine.
Let me see if I get this right: they get disqualified for containing an ingredient that hasn't been certified as edible (kokum butter) and is usually used in cosmetics, and there is no evidence of Big Cheese being the reason for the disqualification, other than the owner of the company saying it.
But it is still Big Cheese' fault?
Gift link for access: https://wapo.st/3xQCcYX
According to WebMD and the millions of people that eat kokum butter, it's safe.
Kokum butter is edible and occasionally used to make chocolates and other confections.
None of them care about that. They only care about arguing against vegan foods.
Here are more details (and more context is in the article):
"Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).
The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.
“It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.”"
https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awards-19431532.php
There are innumerable horror stories from cottage vendors bumping up against the money and strict gatekeeping of the nationally established conglomerates. This was in the US, but I know Canada also has, new, laws on the books to specifically prevent plant based cheeses from referring to their product as "cheese," despite being the exact same process and a final product that you wouldn't know side by side to the dairy version.
I'm not a vegan, but this is the just same ole regulatory capture bullshit that we're seeing w ev cars, good imported rum, net neutrality and everything else
It was disqualified for having an ingredient that was not GRAS(generally regarded as safe). Even GRAS is a pretty low bar for food safety.
Here are more details (and more context is in the article):
"Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).
The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.
“It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.”"
https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awards-19431532.php
Not true. It's considered safe by WebMD, and it's been studied as a food for a long time. It is chemically similar to cocoa butter.
So it's been approved by more reputable organizations than the FDA.
Web MD is crap. Also GRAS is a term that only the FDA can bestow. So yeah it's not GRAS.
Bro, insecure meat eaters are such pieces of shit.
You know cheese isn't meat, right?
What has eating meat got to do with cheese?
a lot of cheeses use calf rennet.
Also cheese in general is a by product of the meat industry. You can't have a lactating cow without keeping it perpetually pregnant, Where do you think those calves go?
I promise you it ain't a nice meadow where they get to live out the rest of their "natural" lives frolicking
And then when the milk eventually dries up the dairy cow gets deadded too... FUN!
edit: if you're going to downvote me at least reply stating why you think i'm wrong
Slice'm all up and put it on a board. Yum yum
meatlets upset it tastes better
Holy shit, there's a decent vegan cheese? I like my meat but I understand that the current status quo isn't sustainable, and cheese is the number two thing the vegan industry has been struggling with making a good substitute for (number one being bacon.)
Yeah but it's blue cheese
The best kind next to feta
Blue cheese is a bit strong for most people, I can respect that, I'm one of those people. The trick is knowing what to pair with blue cheese to help balance it out a bit.
You want my recommendation for how to enjoy some store-bought blue cheese? Try it on a burger, with some sliced avocado instead of lettuce. The meat and the dense fruit balance out the blue beautifully, you get all the nice taste of a blue cheese without feeling like your mouth got nuked from orbit by smelly cheese.
Win win
Yeah. I'm a vegetarian and the only things preventing me from being full vegan are cheese and ice cream. Once I can tackle those addictions, I'll be very happy going full vegan.
I get the cheese argument, but the dairy-free ice cream these days is wild. Oatly, and a few others have some incredible offerings.
Oh boy have I got an ice cream for you. wicked kitchen
I just wish the US government would shift subsidies from meat and dairy to alternatives. The modern stuff is very good, it just costs like twice as much! Last time I went grocery shopping, the oat milk was almost the same price as the cow milk, so I bought two gallons, because it also keeps much longer than cow milk.
I've had vegan ice cream before that was so much better than any ice cream I've had before but I don't remember which brand it was and I'm so mad about it. It had this really nice chewy bouncy texture. So good vegan ice cream exists. Now if only I can find it again.
My local store had five different brands of mint chip vegan ice cream. I've still only tried two and I think they're great.
Have I got a book for you - Artisan Vegan Cheese
If you skip the mass produced stuff, there are plenty of great naturally fermented plant-based cheeses. But in my experience it always feels like something is missing, which probably has to do with dairy's addictiveness. How do you compete with drugs?
Holy shit, there's a decent vegan cheese?
Yeah, try the Follow Your Heart brand. I think the name is pretty cheesy (pun intended) and it usually costs more than common brands like Daiya, but it tastes significantly better and melts more like actual cheese.
Shredded cheese substitutes aren't bad, especially if you plan on just melting it anyway. I'm not sure i would be willing to use vegan cheese on a cheese and cracker plate, but plenty of the stuff out there is suitable for melting on top of a sandwich, or in potatoes.
The dairy industry is so pathetic.
Maybe. But nothing in this story suggests that as "the dairy industry" did nothing more than disqualify a cheese made using non-GRAS ingredients.
What's pathetic is Big Vegan telling lies to try and discredit an ancient and valuable industry.
There's nothing ancient or valuable about a relatively new industry that's built on lies and unnecessary suffering and death for all.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=roIWg4ntj9k&pp=ygUTZGFpcnkgaW5kdXN0cnkgbGllcw%3D%3D
Lmao you're calling me one vegan big compared to a multi billion dollar industry assaulting and separating mothers from babies.
I dunno, I think I'm on the side of "it might taste great but if it's vegan it doesn't meet the definition of cheese."
There was a time when the "definition" of marriage was a union between only one amab and afab person. Definitions change.
Bro, come on man. I don't give a fuck what you call cheese but likening dairy to sexual preference discrimination is a bit much.
And I suppose it is up to the organizers of a contest over cheese to define the parameters of what constitutes cheese. But milk seems like a reasonable starting point. It is, after all, a dairy product.
If we can define plant products as milk then we could also define cows as plants. It would make vegan chili contests more interesting.
So I don't necessarily agree in general, it depends on how you define milk... If you curdle a liquid and it becomes cheese like, it's probably cheese? Unless milk can only come from mammals/animals.
The dairy and meat lobbies are something else. It’s like smoking in the fifties.
It’s well established that there are serious health concerns when you consume animal produce (not to mention environmental and animal welfare ones), yet the industry keeps pushing back on plant-based alternatives.
I've heard of potential health issues from red meat consumption, but all animal products? That's a first for me. Do you have any sources to share on this?
Try watching the documentary “You are what you eat” on Netflix, it’s a good intro that covers the health risks of other animal products as well.
Technically it can't be all animal products, since honey is about 98% sugar, and despite the hate campaign currently hitting carbs, sugar is not quite as harmful (in and of itself) as it's made out to be.
But if we're referring to all animal products in the sense of meat, dairy, and eggs - those three foods have nutritional properties that are all very similar and they do have some overlap in terms of health issues.
The biggest thing they have in common is being a package deal with high amounts of saturated fat and cholesterol. Heart disease is generally the industrialized world's number one killer, and all three animal foods initiate the onset and progress the state of heart disease.
Then there are issues that are less settled, like to what degree do these foods cause various cancers?
And then this one is even more in need of further study, but there might be a link between these foods and autoimmune disorders.
https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/meat-bad-you-and-environment
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/processed-meat
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-about-dairy
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/health-concerns-with-eggs
Vegan blue cheese
So just the mold without the dairy? 🤔
The article suggests it’s bacteria creating the milk from plants rather than cows and then normal cheese past that
However the article also says the dairy industry wasn’t the one complaining about it
"The plant constituents of that product, a vegan blue cheese, are hardly exotic. The top four ingredients are pumpkin seeds, coconut oil, lima beans, and hemp protein powder. And yet Dominique Crenn, a Michelin-starred chef, described it as “soft, buttery, and surprisingly rich—beyond imagination for a vegan cheese.”"
Big Milk will not accept any threat to their cash cow! This is outrages!
Aren’t they dairy cows?
Anyone got the actual link to buy this cheese?
Since it was actually disqualified for being made from an ingredient that's not approved for human consumption by the FDA you might not want to buy it.
It was disqualified before the announcement was made. Dairy farmers didn't even know it was going to win.
That's not true. There's no reason to believe kokum requires GRAS affirmation since it's been historically and widely consumed on the Indian subcontinent. That means it's grandfathered in as GRAS by default even if it's not included in their lists.
The FDA not yet giving it GRAS affirmation is not the same as it not being approved for human consumption. Specifically, the FDA did not raise any concerns to a GRAS notice that it has already received for kokum butter as a cocoa butter substitute.
A substance used in food prior to January 1, 1958, may be generally recognized as safe through experience based on its common use in food when that use occurred exclusively or primarily outside of the United States if the information about the experience establishes that the substance is safe under the conditions of its intended use within the meaning of section 201(u) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act
A quick search: https://climax.bio/ and https://climax.bio/findus/
Really limited information on the actual products. Zero ingredients information too.
Looks like you gotta go to a restaurant to taste it. Meh. I just want some bean tacos when I'm back from work that have cheese in them.
🤨📷
It's not available yet, but here's their home page.
I just wanna try this cheese.
Unbelievably shitty ragebait journalism.
The traditional cheesemaking company is freaking out (really?) about Climax Blue, especially because the vegan cheese was so delicious that it had slated (it had slated did it?) to win the overall competition
Though yes, there is a bit of controversy here, but at least the Washington Post tries to explain it in a less incredibly-biased way - https://wapo.st/3xQCcYX
So what is it called, so I can get some?
Edit: Climax Blue yes really
I mean, apparently it's that good, so....
Look, I dislike blue cheese purely for the flavor, but I'll be damned i didn't want to try this
You can really taste the feet.
Well now I want to try it lmao. Thanks for the publicity, dairy industry.
That's how capitalism works
Can't be bought yet. Later this year they say.
Get fucked, dairy farmers.
If only I could buy it.
It'll be interesting to try when it comes out, but there are already plenty of good brands out there.
https://www.tastingtable.com/1134914/best-vegan-cheese-brands-ranked-worst-to-best/
They offer it at selected restaurants:
https://climax.bio/findus/
Ugh, It's a little judgy and I actually like AI in some day-to-day search scenarios but instantly disappointed in the blue cheese company when this banner appeared across the top of their homepage. " Find out how AI is shaping the future of Food and how you can support the movement! " With links to join a mailing list.
Also, just an FYI, they aren't selling the cheese to consumers yet, it's only available in a handful of restaurants.
That is a specific day to day scenario that makes sense to me for AI - finding new combinations of flavors by following some machine learning recommendation, especially if the intended application is to use AI to discover better vegan cheeses
I don't think you really even need AI (in the sense of LLMs, as that's usually what's referred to with AI) for a flavor pairing software whatchamacallit. I forget what the concept is called but I learned about it through the flavor matrix. Where you essentially compare the different aromatic and flavor compounds in a given food/ingredient and base recommendations off of other foods with compatible compounds in them. A large enough database and a good UI would be a gamechanger for cooking
I'm not sure I get the mailing list part, but this is the type of task modern Machine Learning is actually great at (much better than they are at text or art generation). You have some huge open possibility space the humans can't possibly explore all of, and where false negatives aren't costly. You can use the model to narrow down the possibility space to something manageable for a human to review manually. Very similar to how its used in astrophysics, for example.
I guess vegan cheese has improved a whole lot since I last tried it.
Now if only they could make a vegan hot dog that didn't taste god-awful...
I've definitely had some good hot dogs and brats. I don't remember which stadium style hot dogs I've tried, but I usually go for some flavor of Field Roast.
Meh, blue cheese tastes more like mold than cheese, so I can see a vegan version being competitive when other vegan cheeses aren't.
I wouldn't go that far, but it does have a flavor that the fungus adds that other cheeses don't. However, to win this award, it would have to be pretty indistinguishable from not just blue cheese, but top-of-the-line blue cheese, which is damn impressive for something without any dairy in it.
I'm curious what they can achieve with cheddar based on that.
I had some vegan cheese I got from a food pantry, that shot was top tier. I think it was called vialife?
Best quesadillas ever
Hot dogs and other sausages without meat will always be awful because the flavor and texture is what makes them work.
I am not a vegan or vegetarian. I absolutely love vegetarian and vegan dishes that are based on their ingredients doing their own thing.
Tried some vegan "feta" type cheese for my salad, based on cocos oil, and it was pretty bad. It had a terrible stink and taste like overripe cheese, which is kinda the opposite of what you'd expect from this type. It also became incredibly smeary immediately when I tried to crumble it, so it only mimics the original consistency when it is untouched.
The only vegan products that I've tried and liked so far were oat milk, which is pretty much tasting like regular milk at this point (at least my brand), some vegan Schnitzel which tastes not quite but close enough like those premade regular ones you'd get at a grocery store, and some "cut chicken" type stuff which honestly was pretty great in taste and consistency and definitely something I get again if I want to throw some mixed veggie bag into the pan. Everything else I've tried ranged from "meh" to "eugh". But I'm sure it's just a matter of more R&D.
OP's name checks out.
With this username I am quickly finding out I should be charging one quarter every time someone says this.
The farm industry loves their subsidies and will fight hard to keep them coming.
In the US anyway. I'm sure it's similar in other countries but for ostensible cultural reasons.
Edit: I checked to make sure, this is in the US.
They're going to get hit with the Streisand effect.
Ew, blue cheese.
must've been the italians.
And before you ask, no it's not racist, they claim to be the only legitimate source of a certain type of cheese, or more, maybe idk cheese lore lmao.
I think you are referring to the DOP system? It certifies that a food with a certain name actually respects the history, quality, and tradition behind that name.
But you can always make up new names or use generic names. For example "blue cheese" is not protected under DOP, however Gorgonzola is. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgonzola
I have found their website https://climax.bio/, and they only advertize this product as blue cheese, not Gorgonzola.
However, unlike you have suggested, the DOP system is proposed and managed by the EU, not Italy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_designation_of_origin and a more complete list of types of protected names: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_traditional_specialities_in_the_European_Union
Finally, the article states the rejection is because the lack of safety certificate, not related to geographical or traditional protection.
After initially being named a finalist, Climax Blue cheese was later disqualified by the Good Food Foundation, reportedly due to issues around one of the ingredients (kokum butter) not having GRAS certification. But Climax CEO Oliver Zahn accused the foundation of caving to pressure from the dairy cheese industry and changing the rules after the fact to disqualify his product.
"GRAS" stands for "generally regarded as safe" and is issued by the FDA https://www.fda.gov/food/food-ingredients-packaging/generally-recognized-safe-gras
I have found their website https://climax.bio/, and the only advertize this product as blue cheese, not Gorgonzola.
That won't fly in the EU, cheese has to be made from milk and milk is the excretions of mammary glands (though some countries have grandfathered in things like coconut milk).
And before a vegan comes around and calls the whole thing nonsense: There's been cases of salami pizza using non-cheese "cheese" but advertising it as cheese. If milk and cheese can be freely applied to animal and non-animal products then it's a given that the likes of Nestle will try their darnest to confuse customers to make extra profit. For the vegans: Each time you want to buy a cheese-like substance you'd have to double-check labels because you never know whether it's animal or non-animal, companies certainly will prefer "cheese" over another term because vegetarians and omnis are way more numerous.
I guess if you don't want to make up a new word for vegan "cheese" Tofu is a good option? "Blue Tofu" doesn't sound too bad.
kokum butter
...is apparently used in chocolate making as a cocoa butter substitute? Can't find any online listings for the stuff outside of cosmetics, though, so I guess it's not approved as foodstuff in the EU. Probably just a matter of going through the paperwork but someone's going to have to do it. The Foundation disqualifying stuff that can't be sold legally as food in the EU TBH doesn't sound particularly sus, though granted they might want to have a separate award for experimental food.
i didn't know that it was an EU body, but i suppose that makes sense.
Regardless, it was a bit of humor, so don't think too hard about it.
Really, the disqualification is probably better publicity than winning the award itself. If someone told me some vegan cheese won a "Good Food" award, I would assume it was related to eco- and social-consciousness. Learning that it was so delicious that the dairy industry schemed to take away the award tells me they're afraid of the competition.
When Seiko beat the Swiss at their own mechanical watch accuracy competitions, they decided to cancel the long running prestigious competition entirely instead of make a better watch.
Capitalism breeds innovation!
Same with Japanese Scotch whiskeys absolutely running the table on ones from Scotland in competitions.
Oh she's sweet but she's Seiko, a little bit Seiko
Misread as Sekiro, was confused about sword fighting and watches, but interested.
To be fair, a crystal clock is just going to be more accurate than a movement based watch. Even the biggest watch fanboys admit that a $30
SeikoCasio outperforms the majority of mechanicals on raw accuracy..
Yeah, well, you can't. It's only available to restaurants, and isn't ready for retail. That's one of the stupid reasons they can't have their stupid award. Stupid sexy cheesish.
I could have never known this award even existed if not for this news. I don't care at all for cheese and now I'm curious to try it.
Same