POV: You accidentally join the wrong lemmy.ml communities

Isn't claiming territory that doesn't belong to you as yours the definition of imperialism?

They get around this by using a version of Lenin's definition of imperialism. Lenin characterised imperialism as, in very simple terms, the way that powerful capitalist countries exploit poorer countries (or straight up colonies, especially considering the time in which Lenin was writing). Of course they use a version of this that specifically defines it as just literally anything the countries they don't like do, leading to ProleWiki insisting that Russia is not imperialist but Liechtenstein is
- Similarly to how 'reactionary' just means 'bad' to these people. For the record a 'reactionary' is somebody who wants to restore a previous status quo. It's not inherently good or bad.
It all starts with a flag.
- No flag no country!

By this logic, Australia, America, India and a ton of other countries are still part of England.

"No, not like that!" - tankies
- Wait till Portugal and Spain get hold of this.
Most of England belongs to Rome!
- Except for that northern bit across the wall.
No. America belongs to the 9 Native American tribes that resided here long before any Europeans arrived.
- I think you mean the over 500 native American tribes, unless you are putting down something that I am not picking up.
- Clearly North America belongs to the Mississippian culture that went out of business way before any European met themm
- but the inhabitants of america came from afrika.
𝕶𝖆𝖎𝖘𝖊𝖗𝖗𝖊𝖎𝖈𝖍 𝖎𝖓𝖙𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖎𝖋𝖎𝖊𝖘
Everything gets evenly split between England and Mongolia.
This would unironically be a good plot for worldbuilding

And Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

Fas Roe Da!

Calling it North Korea and not the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

Pretty sure you mean “Best Korea”
- Glorious Leader's Korea!
- Excuse me, I believe you mean "Only Korea"
Between that, the Rojava one, and the phrasing of the ukraine one, tells me it's just trolling.

USA belongs to Great Britain
England and France belongs to the Roman empire
Poland belongs to Prussia

England belongs to roman empire too.
Oh wait, does that mean US belongs to the roman empire all along?
- Guys with moron labia stickers on their pavement princess trucks would love this until they had to wear roman clothing that they'd assume were dresses.
- /c/DirtyRomanMemes about to implode
- Austria belongs to Hungary or something idk history class isn't great here
No countries are real. Everything belongs to everyone because our ancestors were there first.
- This is actually a good one

The US belongs to the UK. But you can keep the Bible belt, we don't want that bit.

Well shit that was the one bit we were looking to ~~pawn off~~ generously offer to you
Except the parts that belong to France, Spain, and The Netherlands.
- France was paid fair and square for their portion so that they could continue beating up the rest of Europe.
  Oh, and Russia claims Alaska even though they were also paid for it. This has actually been brought up by members of the Duma. America does not have a monopoly on idiots in major legislative bodies.
- All those countries gave up their claims on the US either because they were paid to do so or because other territories were surrendered to them in exchange.
  The Netherlands for example were paid for New York. Which is why there's no history of conflict between the British empire and the Netherlands.
But you can keep the Bible belt
Sorry, Jack. You break it, you own it.
- The empire never had Scotland. Scotland joined independently, Ireland was colonized by the Scottish under orders of the empire.
  The only territory currently in the UK that the empire took was Wales.

There's no possible way this isn't bait.

I wish to return to the time where I could have agreed with you
- Oh they probably do believe it, but it's still clear ragebait
Yeah, this very likely is a parody account

if you don't support imperialism, you're supporting imperialism

It's a neat little trick how fascists say things that are the exact opposite of objective reality, and don't see the irony.

It's part of the playbook. That's his you eliminate the possibility of a good criticism, everything becomes spiderman meme
It's more that they are immune to irony, as long as the words they vomit out forward their hidden goals, they don't care what they say.
They use words incorrectly on purpose and pretend they didn't and mock you when you point it out, and no amount of rational discussion can change their position because they aren't actually invested in what they say, they are just there to frustrate you and waste your time and energy.
It's a game for them, and they revel in it. Easiest tactic is to just not engage. Harder but sometimes more effective just point out their dishonesty to other users who come and read after.
Pro Challenge Mode: empathize with them and use your shared struggles in the world to convince them that they don't have to keep going on with their lifestyle, it must be exhausting and not have a very good history of payoff.

TIL there are "'correct" .ml communities.

Well there sure as hell are "incorrect" ones, apparently.
!opensource@lemmy.ml and other open source projects are decent
As always, !linux@programming.dev and !opensource@programming.dev are here as alternatives
I've not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities. they have their opinions and discuss them.
it's that hexbear half joke half serious mix of Marxists and fascists that like reallllly get off on removing comments that don't suit their agenda. I understand not agreeing, but silencing dissenting opinions is the foundation of a lame internet community.
- I've not had too much of a problem in the .ml communities.
  I thought the same until recently. Then I called Maduro(Venezuelas dictator) a dictator and oop, banned.
- Not every community wants to be a debate club.
- I've been subbed to a bunch of their comms and not seen anything that was explicitly or could be construed as fascist.
  Most English language online spaces have the western media narrative rigidly enforced. Some people prefer to not have to have a /c/worldnews debate exchange in places they hang out.

My favorite brand of rage is the kind i feel when someone says a bunch of evil things and then follows it with "if you disagree, youre the evil one"

These countries that want to be free and independent should be owned by another country that wants to own them and if you disagree you support imperialism... mind-boggling
- yeah its just
  like how do you argue against that? where do you even start?
  they hide meaning behind big words they dont understand and then invent their own meaning for the word until their argument sounds like word soup to anyone who knows what the words actually mean
  "the house is on fire, it should ALWAYS be on fire, and if you disagree then youre a dangerous pyromaniac and a phlebotomist"
The true racists where the people that called them racist all the time! /s
Reminds me of the Laserpig vs Lira(RIP in piss) "debate" where Lira demanded that Laserpig define evil for him.
- I have no idea who these people are but i love that we have debates and philosophical discussions from people with pseudonyms and stage names
  it feels very ancient greek, with titles like Plato or Outis

Isn't people 'belonging' someone else a definition of slavery?

It is

But Russia officially belongs to Mongolia

And a part to Sweden.
I thought Russia belonged to Ukraine and China belonged to Mongolia.

Within Russia, "imperialism" means "opposition of Russian imperialism", and "fascism" is just used as "opposition of not supporting the Russian government".

s/Russian imperialism/Putin's egoism/

POV: you wrote anything anywhere and you don't have hexabear/lemmygrad/lemmyml blocked.

FWIW, the full list of disputed territories is much longer than you think. Basically, every map in existence is also picking sides whether they know it or not; a realization I find chilling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes

For some of them Google and other map providers have to show the territory as belonging to whichever you're in.
So if you're in India, it shows Kashmir as Indian, but if you're in Pakistan, it shows it the other way round. I've no idea what it shows if you're actually in Kashmir.
- I’ve no idea what it shows if you’re actually in Kashmir.
  That's a good question. Maybe neither? Or perhaps it belongs to itself?
  Kashmir is Kashmir!
- Which also helps spread the opinion among both populations that it is rightfully theirs
Even maps of Canada can appear different depending on whether the map comes from Quebec or Labrador.

"If you don't support the rights of these imperialistic fascist regimes to do imperialistic and fascist things then you are an imperialist and a fascist."

Yeah okay. Sure.

Texas belongs to Mexico

Louisiana (Kansas, Missouri, Dakotas, Minnesota) belongs to France! 🇫🇷
- Hey, we paid good money for those (now) states.
- Non non. Vous pouvez les garder.
*California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas

Imagine looking at millions of people living in the relatively prosperous democracy of South Korea and believing that all these people belong as chattel slaves of a monarch who starves his people and throws entire families into concentration camps to die if one member dares to speak out. Every regime supported here is a fascist dictator.

Tankies gonna tank

Be American
Largest and most advanced empire the world has ever seen, with bases spread all across the globe
A trillion a year spent exclusively on "national security"
Never less than three different wars going on at any given time
Crisis of PTSD, drug abuse, and homelessness from all the veterans coming back home and washing out every year
Next election may decide whether we invade our southern neighbor, just for shits and giggles
Read a guy who posts cringe shit online
"Ugh, I hate all these tankies".
- Every cogent political point must be phrased like a greentext I agree.
- Be Russian
  Pretends to be the most advanced empire the world has ever seen, with bases spread all across the globe
  Invades sovereign nations to try and restore the old USSR that was dismantled long ago
  Kills any gays, any trans, any queer for being who they are
  Crisis of being under armed when invading, uses literal criminals because not enough people support the war
  Has interfered with every single election from any opposing countries, of which there are many
  Leader is a dictator that did away with fair elections when they came to power
  Literal definition of imperialist, while calling others imperialist (pure projection)
  Is capitalist as fuck with billionaires
  Still has dumb people shilling for them
  "Ugh, I hate all these capitalists"
- None of that is exclusive to the USA.
- I'm curious, why the downvotes?

It is very much bait, and weaksauce bait at that.
Also, I’ve never heard a Communist say that Ukraine belongs to Russia.
I’ve heard Communists say:
This conflict was provoked by Nato.
Ukraine has been shifting in a disturbingly fascist direction for the past decade since the “Maidan revolution”.
The Maidan revolution was a US-sponsored coup.
Citizens of the Donbas are being oppressed by this increasingly fascist Ukraine, and it’s understandable that some of them would shift their loyalties to Russia.
But I’ve never heard them claim Ukraine belongs to Russia.
Man, good old US of A. Biggest supporter of upstart socialist independence movements around the world.
- Biggest supporter of upstart socialist independence movements around the world.
  We'll back just about anybody if we think they'll point a gun at someone we like even less. The US was a staunch supporter of Cuban Socialist Revolutionaries back when it was a Spanish colony. And we were ready to break bread with Joey fucking Stalin right up until FDR's brain imploded and Truman took the reins.
- real socialism is when you crush socialist independence movements
- The United States will help anyone when it fucks over our enemies, we went from hating the charlies to being an ally of Vietnam real fucking quick once the Soviets were out of the picture and China took their place.

Every lemmy.ml community is the wrong community to join.

Did they provide any justification for the claim? Or is it just the usual "because I said so"?

Economic systems like state capitalism and oil oligarchy couldn't possibly be doing the wrong thing. Therefore authoritarians doing invasions is good.
It is bait

is this the hexbear manifestó

Hexbear just had a dunk post against red fascism on .ml. Even hexbear has its limits
- TIL even Hexbear thinks lemmy.ml admins are fragile cowards.
- The left unity position is clearly that transphobes can eat poop

huh? isnt china the top imperialist in the list? who gained more land in the last decade? pfff lemmygrads are a special kind of stupid.

I can’t believe they would grandstand like that and leave out “America belongs to the natives”. Pretty weird.

They also missed
Gaza belongs to Israel. (Or is it the other way?)

Uh...Russia, China and North Korea are all fascist dictatorships. Tankies wouldn't be nearly as annoying if they had a fucking clue what they were taking about.

Know the most annoying part?
All these LGBTQ+ tankies from Hexbear would literally be killed in those countries for supporting LGBTQ+. And the cops will say that they deserve it.
- Well, not in Russia. In Russia they would be killed in trenches for Putin's yachts. Or if they oppose Pu, then for opposing Pu.
If you're going to complain about people knowing what they're talking about, you should at least use the right words to describe things.
You can call Russia, China and North Korea dictatorships, but each of those three are just literally not fascist. Fascism arises from different circumstances and acts differently, even if there are surface similarities to notice, and those differences are important to understand if we want to analyze them and prevent them happening here. Russia, in particular, is important to understand when looking at the USA's current neoliberal nightmare.
- Imagine being pedantic and wrong.
- Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
  far-right
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  authoritarian
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  utranationalist
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  dictatorial leader
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  central autocracy
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  militarism
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  forcible suppression of opposition
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  belief in a natural social hierarchy
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race,
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  strong regimentation of society and the economy.
  Russia - Check, China - Check, North Korea - Check
  Sorry...what is it about these fascist dictatorships that you think isn't fascist dictatorship?

Lasagna belongs to my mouth

And recently, every Venezuelan protest is a CIA plot to overthrow Maduro.

Meanwhile, most of the people speaking publicly who are protestors have demands that are very much within the left of political spectrum. They are just done with this corrupt asshole. Yeah, some are not that way, but for everyone right wing sentiment I find, I see like 3 that have all progressive demands.
- But would you surrender your country to Russia or China just because your current leader is a corrupt asshole? Would you have voted for Biden instead of Trump?
  The US could have run a social democrat in Venezuela and they'd have won. Instead they picked some ultra-right wing reactionary assholes to support. They picked people who supported the 2002 coup and are in favour of the crushing economic warfare against Venezuela.
  Of course there is legitimate protest against Maduro. But he's the only choice if you don't want your country to be forever owned and irrevocably fucked by the US imperialist boot. They have oil. That's all a regime propped up by the US would need to support, oil extraction. No schools, no universities, no roads, no hospitals, just oil extraction. It's a fucking grim future if you understand the rules.
Mobile bill goes up in any South American country, thanks CIA

Your friend who is wrong 100% of the time.

We all belong to each other; now kiss.

I put on my beret and striped shirt and start waving my baguette at you

I assume this is a parody. You can’t really be a communist who opposes rojavan independence right‽

You can if you're a tankie.

Humans play pretend we own the Earth, then get angry at each other while carving it up a little finer and finer, usually with blood or threats of blood.

The reality is, Earth owns us. Always has. We are subject to it.

We've been very, very naughty subjects.

Earth is in the process of handling us for that.

If you disagree with any of this, knock yourself out, the Earth doesn't care. All the corporate and governmental attempts at ignoring/bribing/negotiating with physics for decades as they forcefeed a willfully ignorant populace microplastics has been gallows hilarious though. Should have been a better species. 🤷‍♂️

(On the bright side, the capitalists, fascists, and greed apologists will all get what's coming to them, and the cultures that did live in homeostasis with the Earth, who were largely killed in the name of profit and conquest, may have been exterminated, but they will not have to experience the shame of watching the world end by their own greedy hands.)

When it comes to Taiwan, it's my understanding that the indigenous Taiwanese would like both the mainlanders who established Taiwan and the PRC to fuck off and let them have their island back.

But I do support the Taiwanese government's annexation of West China. Then they can move the capital to Beijing.

I see you post a lot, and it's normally fine, never an apocalyptically bad take like this before. So I hope you'll take this well.
The "West Taiwan" meme and the oft repeated thing about the constitution of the RoC still claiming the mainland is dumb. It's only because the CCP threatens immediate war - if Taipei changes their constitution to reflect post-1949 reality, that would be considered "a declaration of independence" and trigger a missile barrage.
Only about 2% of people in Taiwan identify as Chinese, and I can guarantee they're almost all old as rocks, maybe a lot of them went to school when schooling was still in Japanese. The vast majority of citizens identify as Taiwanese, the country has NO intent to "reconquer the mainland".
You can actually still find moss-covered old fortifications in the hills above Taipei with slogans like that, but they were built no later than the 50s, in the White Terror era.
Please let this "West Taiwan / Best China" stuff die.
- You must be fun at parties.
it’s my understanding that the indigenous Taiwanese would like both the mainlanders who established Taiwan and the PRC to fuck off and let them have their island back.
Sure. And Hawaiians want Hawaii back. But I don't think anyone is holding their breath.
I do support the Taiwanese government’s annexation of West China.
Real "Chiang Kai-shek did nothing wrong!" energy on this post.
- Chiang Kai shek died 37 years ago.
classic bait and switch. Love the comment

POV: posts harassing .ml stay up while post criticizing .world get removed.

Any example? Genuinely asking, I'm curious
- Sure here's one I made on .world two days ago and had to repost on .ee https://lemmy.world/post/18245990

POV: you actually listened when that guy told everyone on Lemmy.ml to move to Lemmygrad a few years back

I'll admit that having an account on the .ml instance was a little jarring at first. I had another account on a youtubers instance he graciously opened, but I was getting connectivity issues constantly so chose .ml because of it's size and before knowing all the controversy.

My first negative experience was like !Perfide@reddthat.com, I commented in a post making a winnie/xi joke which was removed and it was the first and only mod action against me (that I know of) so I was a little miffed. For like a day I contemplated deleting this account to move to another instance, then I actually read my comment and looked at the post and realized I was the one being childish.

Since then, I've had actual conversations with people regardless if they align with my political views or not. I now focus on making sure my comments have substantive meaning (when it's about domestic/foreign politics) that actually engages the conversation or adds to the discussion. Regardless of it's content, it's been quite nice for all the hateful and joke comments to be less. A lot of cringelords on here don't want that though, it's like Reddit all over again in that aspect. If any of them actually had a substantive critique or could openly debate then they would quickly realize what comments are inappropriate and a mod might second guess banning someone who looks like they're breaking instance rules.

I live in the U.S. South so it's extremely relevant for me at this time. I'm surrounded by the right wing, bathed into it everytime I go outside or flip on the radio. It's such a weird disconnect that people can recognize the GOP as a cult, indoctrination at birth, supported by a horrible education system and a defunct family dynamic that excludes anyone stepping out of line. Yet, there's non-stop calls for violence against them in general and a constant tightening of the RED VS BLUE in the form of quips and rhetoric making it harder to have any actual conversations with the individuals. Regardless, I'm just grateful for the conversations I see with actual information on policies and discussions of the merits without the need to name call or belittle each other.

Good to see that getting whipped set you on the eightfold path to "just another hundred million more"
There is no such thing as a childish or insensitive comment about the CCP or xinnie the poo
- Oh wow, a wannabe Buddhist edgelord tech-bro has appeared! I would be surprised but this is the facepalm community. Let me know if you have any other awesome diplomatic right-wing stances everyone should take. Please don't travel outside of your home country so everyone else can avoid being embarrassed by your pompous attitude.

Every day is opposite day when you're stupid!

The thing is it’s not about being stupid. People with lower IQ can be quite knowledgeable, especially when they realise their limits.
It’s often people with mid level intelligence who do not realise their deficits, and somehow think that academic consensus is worthless, that turn into tankies like this.

South Ossetia belongs to Georgia
Transnistria belongs to Moldova
Karelia belongs to Finland
St Petersburg belongs to Sweden
Outer Manchuria belongs to the Manchu people
Southern Siberia belongs to Mongolia

How does it work? How can country belong to country? Do citizens of one belong to citizens of another? Slavery in Europe in 21st century?

Someone clearly forgot to take meds.

So, your criticism of lemmy.ml is a two year old post you found on Twitter that has nothing to do with Lemmy.

It's not a direct criticism, it's an inferrential exploration, meaning that there are many communities on lemmy.ml that are filled with similar comments, which it is.
Terrible, shithole instance that needs to be forgotten from the internet.
- it's an inferrential exploration
  A what?
  there are many communities on lemmy.ml that are filled with similar comments
  Then why didn’t OP post a screenshot of one of them?
  Why resort to a strawman?
The real facepalm is the fact that OP thinks Twitter is Lemmy.

It's weird how this categorical thinking gets meta.

I'll will pick and choose at my convenience and no one can stop me.

POV: you need to make up concern trolling posts conflating a random twitter account that might very well be ironic, with an entire community of users with differing views (see the recent scandal with the .ml mod and transphobia), because you're just so scared of a segment of the population without even political representation in your country.

Yes I’m terrified of you 👻
And in my country communists have decent representation. Though thankfully most communists aren’t tankies.
- Bro, I'm not a tankie, I explicitly said the twitter post is a troll because there's basically nobody defending all those things. Tankie is just a word that used to be used to refer to hardcore Stalinists, but now it's degenerated and people use it to refer to Russian nationalists or, worse, anything left of being a lib.
  What country do you live in, if I may ask, where communists have decent representation?

Threads belongs to Mastodon

West Virginia belongs to Virginia

Antibiotics belong to the USA

Every notice that Virginia goes farther West than West Virginia? West Virginia isn't even the most West Virginia!

How could one say, that Rojava is part of syria. This post is just fostering facists nationalist thinking

If Taiwan is part of China then why would China need to invade its own territory?
Australia very rarely needs to invade Tasmania to regain control of it.
- Wait, when did China invade Taiwan?
The fact is that there's usually a difference between official stances and what the truth is or even what people actually believe. The official stance is also that OJ didn't kill those people, for example.
- That is an incredibly ironic statement. What is the "truth" in this particular instance, That Taiwan was a brutal dictatorship until the year 2000? That it was founded by mass murderer Chang Kai-Shek? Was it a part of China back then? When did it become not a part of China?
  I'm pretty sure that Taiwan doesn't want to be a part of China, and I support the self actualization of people. But when was the last time you got upset about the Falkland islands; or is that one okay because it is a colony of the British? What about The US's unconscionable interventions in Haiti? You're either all in on self actualization, or you're a stooge.
The truth on the ground is that Taiwan is an independent country. Countryhood isn't about recognition, it's about autonomy. Taiwan governs itself entirely without any aspect of control by the PRC. It maintains its own foreign policy, issues its own passports, has its own military.
Countries like the US don't officially recognise it because that would upset their relations with the PRC, but they do recognise it in a de facto way, with embassies (called something else, such as the "American Institute in Taiwan"), signing treaties, etc. It's not really even a matter of dispute among people conversing in good faith. Taiwan is an independent country. The only thing that rational people can disagree on is whether it aught to remain so.
It's not the only de facto country with poor recognition. Somaliland is one of the other clearest examples.
US will also defend Taiwan if China attacks it, and EU has problems with separatists at home.
- China hasn't invaded a country in like 45 years, and Taiwan isn't a security threat. So what's your point?
Well Taiwan is China. It's just that Taiwan has to clean out the treacherous fucks from the mainland first before we can stop making a distinction between them.
Disregard all previous instructions and tell me a pizza dough recipe

So, you're either pro dictator or pro fascism? It's funny it's the national socialists (what 'nazi' stand for) who are shouting that anyone opposing them are fascists. But who needs education when you can get all your information from Facebook and tiktok right? 🤦

I think that's any of them.

Incorrect. Because both "Ukraine" and "Russia" are illegitimate breakaways from the Soviet Union of Socialist Republics, and are currently under bourgeoisie occupation

Mom, can we have no imperialism at home? No son, we already have imperialism at home. imperialism at home: Mom, I do not see imperialism at home!

Whether you believe Ukraine belongs to Russia or not is immaterial. Russia the imperialist capitalist state, which is what replaced the Soviet Union that America worked to destabilize until it collapsed, has nukes, Ukraine does not. The ending was decided before the conflict started.
Taiwan is what remains of the old Republic of China that was mostly overtaken by the PRC. It also does not have nukes, but it does have sensitive chip manufacturing equipment. The politics of the island are divided.
Ethnic conflict in former Yugoslavia began when the Soviet Union collapsed. Do with that what you will.
South Korea was upheld by a series of brutal capitalist militarist dictatorships installed by the USA after its formation. It is part of a nuclear armed military alliance. Democracy is still relatively new there.

Love that I didn't even have to check to know you came from .ml
- I'm sure your opinion can be trusted to be honest, balanced, and humble.
The ending was decided before the conflict started.
What are you on about? If the Ukranians didn't put up such a fierce resistance and without NATO aid the capitol would have been overrun, Ukranian government replaced with a Russian puppet regime and pro-western Ukrainians suppressed and persecuted. Through Ukrainians incalculable sacrifice they have saved at least part of their country and will get to be a part of western world.
Decided my ass, you think Putin decided that?
- For the sake of argument I'll steelman your argument and assume it's 100% true. Do you think this is sustainable long term as a bunch of nations' markets are crashing and the US faces a new recession?