Class War
Class War
283 comments
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Before World War I and World War II, many thought things would not escalate until we realised it was far too late. The British intelligence thought the assassination of Franz Ferdinand would only be contained regionally instead of escalating to a world war.
Most wars are class wars and most issues are class issues. But most people are not class conscious. The base tribalism is instead drummed up to distract us from the real root cause. We're seeing the rise of the far right in many countries such as in Europe, US and India. Most of the rise of the right is due to influx of migrants, who are displaced by neocolonial foreign policies of corporate backed governments and capitalism-induced global warming.
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But most people are not class conscious.
I think you'd be surprised. Just most of us realize that socialists are ineffective at accomplishing anything. Simultaneously both naive and arrogant and too obnoxious to be able to create a movement most people would want to be a part of.
Simple truth of it is, in the long run we're all dead anyway. Better to improve the system we have then wait around for socialists doing endless naval gazing dialectics over which ideological framework a stance on an issue would be in before then deciding whether they're for it or against it.
We'll all grow old and die before socialists do anything other than complain about how stupid the workers are for not appreciating in their genius.
Keynes > Marx
Biden > [Do socialists even have their shit together enough to even have a leader?]
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PLENTY of people saw it coming. The majority of people didn't give a fuck.
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This sentiment of 'I'm not going to fight' is funny until the war actually starts. And then it's either you fight early, or you fight late. Sometimes too late.
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Wasn't that amaricas strategy in the past 2 world wars. Like we basically just waited for everyone to wear echother down.
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Until someone was like, check this MF out just sitting there, they're just waiting it out for everyone else to wear each other down!
Incidentally, this was Russia's plan, too. In fact, still is. We should really pounce on those fuckers while they're weak.
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Then you became an enlightened centrist?
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that's the main issue though, at least in the US, many citizens feel it would be better to have a complete clear of the entire country so they likely just wouldn't fight if invaded, the amount of anarchists and just anti-government folk have been gradually rising ever since the pandemic. It doesn't seem like health wise the country is doing well regardless of the economy status. It is super demoralizing seeing all the news platforms only focus on external wars or how the south is arguing over if it's legal to jail someone over abortion that happend outside of state line, meanwhile a good portion of folk despite having one of the lowest unemployment rates in years is still living barely paycheck by paycheck. Most feel there's just nothing they can do.
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They don't go far enough, we need a complete global makeover. What was that about a Great Reset? Isn't that their idea? Because honestly it sounds pretty fucking good to me about now...
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The USA probably has the most brainwashed people you could imagine, they'll find all the canon fodder they need for their next war
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I figured I'd just fuck off out of here before shit goes down. In fact I have no idea why I'm even living in this shithole instead of a paradise island. It costs about 1/10th as much, is tropical, beautiful, and so poor nobody would ever think of invading it. I don't know about you but I can make that work.
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Something tells me you're from the USA. There are other Western governments, and other places that are arguably better (as in, more comfortable/safe) to live in. Many people have dependents, or things to loose that they value over one's life.
So yeah, it may be an option for you but that beautiful tropical island won't fit millions upon millions of people living in the collective West.
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Millennials volunteered for Iraq.
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That’s scary to know.
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Gen x*
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I mean it definitely depends on the circumstances. If Russia attacks here then I'm absolutely fighting.
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That's how they do it, you know. Build up the enemy as this absolutely big bad that you feel you have to.
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Russia attacks my country
"You know, that's how they do it, they make Russia feel like the big bad enemy you have to fight against"
Lmao WHAT?!? If they're literally attacking my country then of course I'm fighting to defend it??
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Russia has always built itself as an enemy. You're dumb if you think it's just propaganda.
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Of course not. Millennials are too old and unless things kick off in the next couple years, gen z will be too.
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Uhm, doofus, nobody's gonna fight in ww3.
Bombs get launched and we ALL die, that's how ww3 is faught.
It's frightening how little the younger generations understand about nuclear war.
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Me looking at the handful of declassified missile defense sites and wondering what shit we have that isn't known.
Yeah.. it'll just be that simple Mr. Armchair General.
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NATO gets assailed and everybody responds, which is the whole point. That's an unwanted fission excess immediately.
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Netanyahu, Putin, and Kim Jong Un walk into a bar...
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You'd be amazed what some good old fashion propaganda will do for you.
The US was so gung-ho after 9-11 they accidentally attacked the wrong country. I know they didn't have any problem getting troops or buy-in from the people of all ages. It was pretty disgusting how quickly your average citizen bought into the bull-shit the Bush administration was selling when it was obviously a lie.
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The US was so gung-ho after 9-11 they accidentally attacked the wrong country.
"accidentally". Lol.
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"Accidentally". That's funny. Not only because there was more than one.
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Yeah. For me it was the same with everyone cheering for Ukraine wanting to get into Nato and putting it in their Constitution even though it would never happen. And then everyone acting surprised when Russia invades after they said they would for years. It was so predictable that I can't help but assume that it was a deliberate trap set for Russia. Russia is wrong, but it was predictable, inevitable. But everyone was suddenly so gung-ho that possible diplomatic solutions to end this senseless war were not demanded by "the left". Still isn't.
And kinda the same with Israel now, the Oct.7 was a horrible atrocity and war crime but they blatantly lied to make it sound even more horrible in order to dehumanize and justify the war crimes they are committing now. But so many on the left are still screaming death! and the news in my "progressive" country is reporting complete propaganda.
Gen-Z is presumably just as easy to brainwash for total war with the right propaganda. Or maybe they will grow up being more resistant to it.
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when Russia invades after they said they would for years.
They absolutely didn't. In fact, Putin ruled out war against Ukraine on many occasions, both before and after the invasions of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
It was so predictable that I can’t help but assume that it was a deliberate trap set for Russia.
Up until the tanks crossed the border people didn't believe Russia would invade because they couldn't believe the Russians could be that stupid. To concoct a plot on such a massive scale with a payoff that relied on the rank idiocy of Russian command doesn't seem very smart
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But everyone was suddenly so gung-ho that possible diplomatic solutions to end this senseless war were not demanded by “the left”. Still isn’t.
What diplomatic solution? Unless you're selling parts of Ukraine for peace, which isn't a long term plan, the only solution is Russia leaving.
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This might have happened. But the internet was still in its infancy, with only MSM having capabilities to stream live for the masses. Social media was limited to forums, BBS, news groups and similar, and they were really a niche.
Seeing all the raw footage of wartorn places on sites like Instagram and TikTok today, and even just sharing them in group chats is a whole new angle that wasn't there before.
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Nah fuck ya'll Ima sign up if we have an enemy worth fighting for the first time in my life. I'll push the lines to Moscow, Beijing, idgaf: dictatorships will destroy us all if left unchecked, make life not worth living for everyone. The whole time I'm deployed I'm going to be using absentee ballots, and if I make it back I'm gonna use my new cred to run for office and fight the corporations, too.
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If you are in the US, you might wanna prevent your own dictatorship first.
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Definitely on the todo list, but honestly the options seem mutually exclusive given the friendliness between our wannabe dictator and his foreign dictator benefactor.
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Do what lol. Yeah everyone says we have guns to "stop tyranny" but the national guard would kick our ass.
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I'll tell the freezing homeless about how you're heroically dying to defend their freedom and prosperity.
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Disgustingly bloodthirsty.
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You think there's a chance of boots-on-the-ground conflict with these people? No. Swords get crossed and everyone's dust.
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You think it makes sense for Russia to lose as much as it has in the Ukrainian conflict? That is the thing with authoritarian states, they're more aggressive and make more costly mistakes. They already have nuclear weapons and they aren't using them. If I were afraid of nuclear war then I would have lived all my life and all of its remainder in fear because there has always been some madman with a finger over the button, I'm not just going to give up and bend over for him.
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Beijing and Moscow will defend themselves with nukes before they allow their capitals to be taken. America would do the same.
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LMAO defend with nukes
If they get desperate enough to arm nuclear warheads then their country is already at the verge of collapse. There is no benefit to firing nukes even as a last resort, it does nothing to improve your situation.
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As long as they are recruiting the dumbest and poorest from your failing high-schools you'll always have enough for your wars.
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The first gun they'll give me I'll aim at myself and be done with it.
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Turkish firearms have a protection on the trigger to prevent you from committing die
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Where there's a will there's a way.
Personally I'd choose a grenade pressed against my skull. No chance of survival when your brain is quite literally puréed
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Interesting, how would that work? An extra trigger you need to press before it fires which you can't reach? That would seem like a hassle on the battlefield, if that safety would make it even the tiniest bit more difficult to fire when an enemy approaches.
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I'll defend my country, but I'm not going to engage in an armed conflict overseas.
IMO, as long as it's not directly threatening me and my life, then I will simply see another WW as old people who are angry at other old people, sending me off to die for their grudge.
No thanks chief. Stick me in prison if you're so inclined but I'm not about to kill some poor kid I've never met and I don't have anything against, just because you can't use your words.
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Where does the line for "directly threatening" go tho?
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Basically two things: if there's combat happening on my countries land, and if there's a well known intent to bring the fighting to my country.
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Millennial here. Can confirm, I'll be staying home and doing my own thing. One live isn't worth more then another and I'm not going to war. If you're going to put me in jail because I refuse, then maybe I need to find a different country to live in.
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On the very off chance they restarted the draft, there are tons of reasons the Pentagon would fight conscription, make sure you know asylum procedures or have the stuff ready to immigrate. Run don't try to just ignore the draft.
They, the last time they did the draft, didn't just throw normies into jail, they grabbed them then kicked them over to the military and then if you ran away and got brought back after being AWOL they just deployed you and let happen what happened, regulars frequently discovered that these sorts had... uhh... "accidents" at a more frequent rate.
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If you run against a war with Russia then the war will catch you eventually. Are you planning to live the rest of your days in an obscure South American nation?
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As opposed to to your life ending in a few short months on a battlefield?
Sure. Why not.
It doesn't have to be Sth America. US men dodging the draft were given political asylum in Canada or Sweden during the Vietnam war and an estimated 60-100,000 fled the US.
So it is actually:
Decades in another modern western nation or weeks/months on a battle field?
Easy choice.
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then maybe I need to find a different country to live in
I was born and raised in Germany and never changed my foreign citizenship, it was always on the bucket list. My husband immigrated in 2019, and since 2022 I am freaking out at the thought that we would change citizenship. Being a foreign citizen sucks sometimes, but in case of war it is extremely beneficial. Avoid drafting at home, avoid drafting where you live.
So, moving in case of a war would be more than beneficial, you just got to do it early on, before they close borders. We had friends dropping everything and packing just their cat and passports the same night Russia attacked Ukraine.
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All the other comments seem to be about the US. I'm not sure how Canada will be in time of war but I agree with you. Being a foreign citizen is worth it. If I'm to leave, id go to The Netherlands but I really do not want to leave Canada.
The longer this shit goes on, the more I'm starting to worry. I hope it ends soon.
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My kid doesn't particularly want to fight, but she's ok with guns and convinced anarchy will be good for the environment?! Idk, she's not dumb, but these kids have less stake in the institutions than MAGA retirees..
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The fact they will never have the chance to enter the ownership class keeps manifesting in new and interesting ways in the media, at their jobs, in their schools, amongst their social circles. The decline in availability of material wealth destabilizes all.
Yall ever seen Daybreakers? It's kinda corny but it feels more relevant every day.
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So...they are going to send gen x and gen alpha?
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Gen X here, fuck that noise.
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Hey if anyone’s a lawyer or knows what they’re talking about what’s the current consensus or constitutionality of conscription in the US? I think it’s illegal under the 13th amendment (which literally bans servitude AKA forced service) and the only court case I could find had the opinion of “well everyone else does it!”
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If I remember my constitutional law classes correctly, conscription was canned after a series of Supreme Court cases where conscientious objectors successfully argued that under the 1st amendment they could not be made to serve. Since "religion" is very loosely defined in the US, pretty much anyone can claim that conscription violates their free exercise of a peace-loving religion.
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Yeah I think there's enough precedent at this point that it wouldn't just be a flip a switch and make it happen. I mean, they would make a new switch. Couple of quick shuffles, some policy. The thing is, even if it was cut and dry and clear in current law, The ability to compel the general public is essentially non-existent. What happens when 50% of the population refuses to answer the call? Hell what happens when 10% of the population refuses to answer the call? We can't even incarcerate 0.1% of the population more at the moment. Do you compel the banks to stop working with them? Void their social security numbers? How would you even have enough people to enforce any punishments against them?
On the flip side, what do you do when the homeland is invaded? What happens if China decides that we're looking kind of weak in the middle of a civil war. It's one thing to be conscripted to fight a war for other people trying to stabilize a geopolitical climate, but what happens when they're knocking on your door? Do you just accept them openly and hope that they will let you keep your things?
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Yet, young us men still have to sign up for 'selective service' when they turn 18.
Gillette sent me a free razor as a reward, at least.
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I would defect to the afterlife before fighting a war for this country.
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Between propaganda and indecision, a whole generation will learn of conscription.
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Denial on ethical grounds is possible though
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector
Since 1995 this includes the right to become an objector while during active service.
They may try to recruit you for civilian service though, War does requires more then just soldiers. I am not sure to what extend those can be refused.
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Jokes on you, my aspie ass is ineligible! Suck it, US army!
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When you show zero loyalty out, it's hard to get loyalty back.
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The alternative is getting conquered by the types of governments whose people have already been pruned for the warcry. It has happened before, it has toppled democracies in the past time and time again, and it will happen again, but with nuclear weapons.
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Then good, let them finish everything off once and for all. I'm not into it. I'm sure as fuck ain't going to help them. I'm going to sit right here, like I always do, and I'll have you know, I'm not too happy about that either, so suck it.
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If that is an option for a western liberal state but it isnt an option for an authoritarian state, guess which state will win. And then it wont be an option anywhere.
You have to fight for your rights. And authoritarian states know that your attitude is prevalent and they intend to exploit it.
Now you might say "but of course i will defend against an invasion". Well, what about an invasion next door? What about a tiny landgrab of let's say 50sqkm. Would you willing to die for such a small piece of land? This kind of "small" infractions and hybrid warfare is how Ukraine almost lost its entire country.
And this isnt a "Russia" thing, it is an "everywhere thing".
Hitler did the same, he didnt go from the start "you know, everything is ours". No, they just went to help some ethnic germans in Czechia, then took a break(Munich Agreement). Then went to help some germans in Poland and took a break(Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact). And since they were winning and those damn russians might attack them, they might as well attack first. But such a campaign would require a lot of resources and to secure their flank, so i guess the germans needed to grab a few more countries too.
Strongmen and authoritarians only respect and understand power. Anything else appears as weakness to them. If you are not willing to use violence and they are, then you will lose. Even if you dont lose now, you will lose in the future.
PS And no, people wont "rise up" against an authoritarian government. Thats not how things work.
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people wont "rise up" against an authoritarian government. Thats not how things work.
Clearly.
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If that is an option for a western liberal state but it isnt an option for an authoritarian state...
It's definitely an option in an authoritarian state. Thousands of men left Russia once the draft started. At one point 10,000 people a day were crossing into Georgia.
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Most people dont have the option to leave their country. In fact, it is infinitely harder to leave your country under an authoritarian government for precisely this reason. And one of the main reasons some people managed to leave Russia is simply because Russia wasnt as authoritarian as it could be.
Restricting movement, even within the country is a typical authoritarian policy.
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I mean I'm pretty anti-war, but assuming my country isn't the aggressor then I would probably enlist, epseicallly since given my skills (and age) I wouldn't be on the front lines anyway.
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If you live in a America or Russia chances are 90% that your country is the aggressor.
You're just gonna hear stories about heroically defending "defending" Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan while mass bombing civilians.
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It’s cute you think you’ll get a choice
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Theres always /a/ choice
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"A new power has been unlocked, both friendlies and enemies now give points"
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I mean, if another world war happened, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll at least be willing to do civilian duty to help the war effort in my country since I can't join the military due to medical reasons, unless they get desperate and start taking everyone regardless of health issues. I definitely ain't doing it out of patriotism or nationalism, but just to make my final years feel like they ment something when we inevitably launch the nukes.
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No, but they will die in it nether the less.
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Made some good friends though!
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See this is what happens when you stop having nuke drills in school. Kids these days think we will do anything other than get vaporized lol. Duck and cover mother fucker.
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The duck and cover thing does two main things. First, it helps to protect you from debris that would kill you when the bomb itself wouldn't. Secondly, the most important thing is to give you the false sense of security in knowing what to do.
If you are within range of the blast, just enjoy the show after the flash because it will be a once in a lifetime sight.
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Nah this is what happens when you turn your back on young people and implement neoliberal economic policies for 40 years.
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I hate the draft
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I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
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I'm too old, I'm bipolar, and honestly I'm not scared to shit my pants and/or dress if necessary.
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We're just gonna sell them weapons.
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Classic hand on the shoulder play.
283 comments
As a veteran, I feel this. I wish I'd served crack instead too.