Me when people are cheering on Iran, a country that literally executes gay people
Me when people are cheering on Iran, a country that literally executes gay people
492 comments
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Israel is executing gay people, and straight people, and fathers, and mothers, and babies, and the elderly, and the sick, and the disabled, people in hospitals, and in refugee camps, and Muslims, and Christians, and Jews, and on, and on.
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I don't think people are cheering them on in general. Just cheering them on against Israel. Which, like…yeah. One of these countries has been committing outright genocide and murdering journalists and aid workers en mass for the last 2 years, and then provoked this latest attack by firing missiles at the other.
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And Iran has been supplying drones for Russia so they can do the same in Ukraine.
They are both shit countries committing genocide directly or indirectly, they should fight each other to extinction.
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Israel has also been supllying drones to Russia. They even demanded Ukraine to surrender to Russia.
This is not to challenge your statement. I find it important to understand that Israel is neither on the side of Ukraine, or on the side of NATO. Israel has no allies, it only has bitches doing its bidding.
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Governments != Citizenry.
Both governments should fight each other to extinction, excluding citizens.
Unfortunately, both Israel and Iran have been targeting civilian centers, starting with Israel, which is depressing.
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Not cheering on their domestic policy, but ppl are xheering on their choice to defend themselves from attack.
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Well said
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So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
You see the problem here, right? These aren't black and white, one side good, one side bad situations.
Iran is a terrible country. My partner and I would both be stoned to death there. But there are also queer people living in Iran, in spite of their intolerant regime, many of whom would likely suffer greatly if Isreal manages to force Iran into a war.
Reality is more complicated than just assigning "good guys" and "bad guys". That shit is for Star Wars.
In this specific situation, there is no justification for what Isreal has done. Their attacks on Iran have been unprovoked, and in clear violation of international law. These must recent attacks, by Israel's own admission, include non-military targets which makes them war crimes. Iran on the other hand has responded carefully and proportionally. Does it feel weird to be giving props to such a horrific regime for their behaviour? Absolutely. But it's impossible not to recognize that in this specific situation they are being the adult in the room.
Isreal is actively trying to provoke a war with Iran precisely because they believe it will turn international opinion in their favour, distract from the holocaust they are enacting in Gaza and shore up domestic support for their government. I'm not a fan of anyone involved in this situation, but I sure as hell am not going to express support for the country trying to start a war to distract from their genocide.
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So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
No, as evidenced when I said "Me when people are cheering on Iran, a country that literally executes gay people" instead of "Gay people should be openly supportive of Israel". As you did not read what I wrote, I did not read your further paragraphs about something I did not say.
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If you can't understand why your post comes across as potentially saying people should support Israel then you probably shouldn't be speaking out on issues like this.
When you say to someone, "Oh, you support [thing]???" In a negative way, and that thing is something that is diametrically opposed to another thing, it is almost always going to come across as implying support for the diametrically opposed thing. Your reply then comes off as a very bad faith response at best, if not a full stumble into narcissism.
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Pity. Reading the further paragraphs would have made you realize that I wasn't actually saying the the thing you assumed I was saying. But taking the path of least consideration seems to be your thing, so I can't say I'm surprised.
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Very well said and 100% accurate.
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except OP didn't say anything like that, and the entire comment is this user pointlessly beating a strawman just to stir shit and provoke infighting. don't be a yes-man for that shit.
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there is absolutely nothing in the post that's pro-Israel. it's purely to remind people that two different things can both be bad.
both states, Israel and Iran, love doing crimes against humanity, and neither should be celebrated.
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Basically, it’s like watching two of the worst people you know go at it in a fight.
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Iran has problems, for sure, however it's hardly the worst state in the region. In fact, on multiple occasions they've been willing to work with the UN and US to try and rejoin the international community.
The issue is both Israel and the US have acted like utter asses towards them.
Obama's nuclear deal showed just how willing they were to engage in diplomacy. Even after Trump killed the deal, Iran was saying they'd be willing to renter again.
And frankly, the reason for Israel's attack was almost surely because the Trump admin was again getting close to signing another nuclear deal.
There's way too much conflating of Islamic nations and their policies. Iran isn't perfect or great, but it is better than a fair number of the regions governments including many current allies.
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That would be the US fighting Israel
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Yeah like, can they both lose please?
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Where did he say that he supports Israel?
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You nailed it
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"I don't care for chocolate ice cream."
"OH YEAH WELL WHY DO YOU LOVE VANILLA SO MUCH? YOU KNOW BOTH OF THEM ARE BAD BECAUSE SUGAR RIGHT?"
bro it's hard to take you seriously about "nothing is black and white" when you began your screed by asserting a false dichotomy and assigning OP a position on it that did not express, implicitly or explicitly. that's a thing fascists do. it's not only dishonest and disingenuous, you're flipping an ally into an enemy and turning solidarity and awareness of queer rights issues into infighting to the detriment of our entire movement. be better than that.
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me when people like you conveniently start to pretend to care about gay people only when something happens to Israel
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The other 350 days a year they're "concerned" about the fairness of allowing trans athletes to compete.
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If one tribe is bad, the other one must automatically be the good one.
There can never be such a thing as TWO bad tribes fighting each other.
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The dreaded heel vs heel match
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With ordinary people who just want to live their lives slaughtered by both.
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Wow people really out here having no clue what the zio regime is about...
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There is concept on the left called "critical support" it broadly means we agree with that one thing you are doing, but we also do not agree with other things.
In this case we can say: For sure killing LGBTQ+ people is not good, but striking a country that is currently carrying out a genocide is a good thing.
P.S. if you have better source for critical support please send.
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Iran's not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them.
But there's certainly a level of "oh, is blowing up an apartment building a bad thing? Then WTF have you doing???"
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Iran's not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them
And why is Israel shooting at Iran? Maybe because Iran is geopolitically opposed to the naziest state in this century, and that's an awesome thing in and out of itself?
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Good point, I still think that no matter (for this case at least) why are they doing it for, they are opposing Israel, and that is a good thing.
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who told you that
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This is important because unthinking tribalism pushes anyone on the fence away from wanting to hear your position, and we don't need any more people pushed to the right.
Like when Trump torpedoed the Trans-Pacific Partnership - which would have meant all involved countries would have fallen under (globally draconian) US intellectual propery law and other controversial changes. In short, it was a huge win for corporations an a huge loss for consumer rights. Trump torpedoed it because it wasn't "putting America first" enough. So, although he stopped it for a stupid reason - it was great that he stopped it anyway.
It was of course renegotiated a few years later as the 'Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership', but notably with almost all of the intellectual property crap removed or vastly de-fanged, and various other controversial provisions removed - and that agreement passed. So it was a lasting win.
But if you ever say 'i hate Trump, but not everything Trump has done is bad because.. ', you are still likely to get a hundred Lemmy downvotes even if you explain why. Hopefully people can learn that you don't have to disagree and disavow someone/some entity all of the time just because you disagree with them in general. A win is a win and it's ok to say 'hey actually that's good', it doesn't mean you support or like them - it just means you think they made one good decision.
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It's not why do people support Iran? It's why do people not support Israel?
It's not about critical support it's about critical thinking. It's about the big picture. Not about who to support and who to hate.
It's about control. It's always about control. 97% of politics is distraction and war means politicians have failed their number one reason to he in charge. To make the daily lives of people better.
Israel doesn't need offshore fossil fuel deposits. They just want control of those resources and money.
The most important thing going on right now is the transition to green energy. Not religious people killing each other. People don't like to hear that. Rather than think about that it makes them happy to insult people about it. Just like it makes people happy to have control.
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Me when people are cheering on Israel, a country that literally executes innocent children
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haven't you heard, Gaza isn't friendly to gays, that's why it's ok to bomb all the people of gaza indiscriminately, including the gays.
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Our own leadership isn't friendly to gays.
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People are cheering on Iran out of pure spite, not out of genuine support for Iran.
The American people are tired of our government spending out tax dollars to support a genocide and then gaslighting us about it when we call them out. They are also persecuting dissenters on it. This has happened under both Biden and Trump, though Trump has leaned more on the persecution. We are fucking sick of it.
There is satisfaction in seeing someone stand up to genocidal Israel, even if the party doing so is despicable in their own right. I think people would greatly prefer getting behind a western democracy taking a stand, but we're at a point where people will take what they can get. Especially with it being clear that the aforementioned western democracies aren't going to do shit against genocidal Israel.
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People are cheering on Iran out of pure spite, not out of genuine support for Iran
Speak for yourself. Iran has consistently been politically, diplomatically, economically and morally opposed to the Zionist entity since before I was born. I wish westerners had a shred of the empathy towards Palestinians that they pretend to have for gays in scary brown people countries when said countries oppose US interests. If you care so much about LGBT rights, go and fucking join an org in your home country, I'm sure you have plenty of far-right people committing hate crime against LGBT in your country, if not outright legalising it in the government.
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Iran has consistently been politically, diplomatically, economically and morally opposed to the Zionist entity since before I was born.
Yes. Which is the very reason that they are getting critical support from many people right now.
I wish westerners had a shred of the empathy and everything after this point in your comment
Who are you addressing here? It seems like this isn't aimed at me, but rather people who support LGBT but then are upset about other people cheering on Iran?
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Stop pointing fingers and start uniting.
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And trans people aren’t treated as equal and they are constantly attacked by their fellow citizens.
Oh wait that’s America.
I don’t know much about Iran, but do they have legalized slavery? Because America does.
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I don’t know much about Iran, but do they have legalized slavery?
It's debatable, and I'm by no means an expert. But forced marriage is still a thing, where you sell your daughter to a man to clear your debts. If you ignore all the sex slaves, there are still about 600k people living in "modern slavery" conditions. The government isn't doing anything about it either from what I gather.
So no, it's not legal the way it is in the US through prison systems, but it is very much a huge issue that isn't being corrected.
But I mean between the US, Israel and Iran... There really are no good guys. Each of these governments does some real horrible shit.
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Oh I didn't know America's government executes gay and trans people and tortures atheists. Its funny, there's actually been a few parades on their behalf recently in America, I wonder how that would go down in Iran?
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The US kills by the thousands overseas, including LGBT people. There is more LGBT blood on the USs hands than Iran's, by far.
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but do they have legalized slavery?
Ask the women.
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It seems to me this is yet another distraction scheme? Make the people supporting gay rights and the people opposing Israel's cruelty angry at each other?
Don't be fooled. Israel is throwing bombs at civilians regularly because it doesn't even think of Palestinians as humans!
If Israel really stands for "Western values", then i want nothing to do with them. If they throw bombs at innocent people, then they undermine their own credibility and don't deserve to have a say in the world's politics.
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Supporting Iran limits the ability of Israel to commit to their genocide, support Israel only enhances their capability to genocide and supporting neither only benefits Israel which make use of their partnership with the west
Hate Iran all you want, despise them, that's fine, but we need to pick anything at this point when the alternative is Israel
It might be better for the gays in Israel, but what about the gays in Palestine, or simply the people within Gaza?
You can reform a state to treat gay people like humans, you can't reform a genocidal state
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I personally would wait for Iran to stop beating women to death for not dressing a certain way before I defend them, but that's just my principles.
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Again with this? Women in Iran don’t get beaten up for not covering their hair. Many don’t and go by their daily lives.
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Eh, one side is committing genocide, has been ethnically cleansing Palestinian, continually attacking neighboring countries, and effectively murdering gay people as well (do you think the 2000 pound bombs make an exception for gay people?) and the other side is a theocracy with all the flaws that come with that. When it comes down to it, Israel is far, far worse than Iran. You can support parties you're critical of.
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I think the more morally sound position is to not support either of them (Zionists and Islamists).
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I disagree, for three reasons. The first is effectively "inaction in the face of an oppressive status quo is complicity", and that's the weakest of the three, I'll be the first to admit. The second is that any nation has a right to defend itself when attacked. And that is very much what's going on here.
The third, for me, is the main reason, and it's an analogy. Imagine a situation with three people, a child rapist, a wife beater, and a child. The rapist is on the verge of raping the child, and the wife beater asks you to give him your gun to stop it (just imagine you're unable to fire it yourself for some reason). In this scenario, I would give the gun to the wife beater. I would be supporting a bad guy (he beats his wife), but I would do it 11 times out of 10.
For clarity, Israel is the child rapist, Iran the wife beater. And yes, the relative magnitude of immorality here corresponds with that between Israel and Iran.
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Israel is also a theocracy.
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I'm somewhere along the lines of "I just hope both teams have fun", but the opposite of that
Wishing both sides a very happy total collapse of their existing state
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The people of Iran do not deserve this. They are under religious authoritarian rule and suffer every day at the hands of these brutes.
Israel on the other hand has many people that support genocide against the Palestinians.
I hope none of the resistance in Israel get hurt or are displaced. I hope no innocent civilians get hurt or are displaced in Iran.
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Would you have said the same during World War 2? Or are you a rascist hypocrite?
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It’s called critical support. I can support both Iran’s self-defense from genocidal maniacs while simultaneously criticizing them for their human rights abuses. It’s something that people with a functioning brain can do - hold two ideas in their head at once.
Besides, Israel has killed more gay people in the last year just through sheer numbers of the people they’ve exterminated than Iran has ever.
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Because the opposite side is Israel, a country that literally executes medics and children
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Can we at least agree that apartheid and genocide are both awful?
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Fun fact. Irans executions of gay people in its entire history didn't happen until after the Islamic revolution. Before then and all the way even before the rise of Islam, whatever state that occupied Iran now all had harsh laws against homosexuals...
But enforced none. Not during pre-Roman times, Roman times, early Islamic era, medieval Islamic era, modern Islamic era. None. Not until the 80s did it happen.
It means Iran absolutely can return to a time when homosexuals were at least ignored by the law.
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They certainly are in Saudi Arabia. They say if you prosecuted homosexual acts there, you'd have to put a fence around the entire country. I guess forbidding the socializing of females outside of marriage limits options.
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We are not talking Saudi Arabia. We are talking Iran.
But there is something I need to mention about Saudi Arabia and executing gay men. I did look at a list of executions for the charge of sodomy (which is what it is referred to as. Simply identifying as a gay man doesn't appear to be an offense. They need to catch two men in the act for it to happen) is when those executions happen it was never just for sodomy, it was usually compounded by another (universally serious) offense such as rape of a child and/or murder.
So the gay men being executed weren't just accused of fucking another man, but also of killing another person (quite possibly the same guy) or of raping a child.
Now am I missing some cases? Maybe. I dont spend that much time looking at Saudi Arabia's prolific executions (they execute more people per capita than any other country), but most people executed in Saudi Arabia aren't gays, they are drug smugglers.
I do not agree with the death penalty at all. So even executing drug smugglers is off-limits to me. Drugs should be legalized (or at least decriminalized) and strictly regulated, but no prison time for them, and certainly not an execution.
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What about Israel, a country that literally executes an entire nation of people, the Palestinians?
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Because their enemy is currently executing literally everyone, gay or otherwise
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If a country that was more progressive than the US (not hard to find one) started bombing the shit out of New York City, would you be like “well, they deserve it for their transphobia”?
Do you realize that Orthodox Jews consider women to be inferior to men? Like, they won’t even shake a woman’s hand.
Sacha Baron Cohen, Zionist shithead though he is, actually got chased down the street in Israel by an angry mob for playing his flamboyant gay character Bruno. He had to yell “I’m a Jew I’m a Jew” to keep from getting the shit kicked out of him.
Israel is literally committing genocide RIGHT NOW. I’m sure there are plenty of gay, trans, nonbinary Palestinians who have head their limbs blown off, if that’s really what upsets you.
The genocide apologism is so obvious it’s sad. You point to one issue that will make liberals go “oh no, scary Muslims!” and you run with that. Fix your heart.
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Thanks to Project 2025, the USA is not far behind Iran.
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And consider which candidate Israel supported during 2024 election
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Does it matter if it's Iran? They are still the victims here. Israel is downright genocidal, and won't stop in Iran!
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Oh no, Iran, which tortures atheists, executes LGBT people, and beats women to death had something bad happen to them, poor babies -🤡
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Oh damn their domestic policy harms innocent civilians, so therefore bombing innocent civilians compeltely unprovoked is justfied 🤡
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Oh look at that, you don't actually care about Iranian LGBT, women, and atheists. You just see them as a way to justify murdering Iranians, including Iranian women, atheists, and LGBT people.
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I don't know when everybody decided "their government does bad things = they should die" was a woke take
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There's no them. You can't blame a whole group of people for being evil, that's how you get Auswitchz.
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That's bad but their attackers have killed tens of thousands of children as well as other noncombatents and seem intent on starving a city of two million people.
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No sympathy for either except civilians caught in between.
The best thing in this is that Russia may receive less drones from Iran used to bombard Ukraine, so that makes me happy
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Based, both governments (not the civilians who want nothing to do with this) are brutal regimes that deserve eachother. The people rooting for one over the other are something else
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Isreal is backing the party that wants to do that in my country. Fuck em
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Nobody is out there crowing about the superiority of Iran. Or how Iran is sooooooo great.
It's just schadenfreude. It's a quadruple heroin overdose of schadenfreude directly in our veins. We've screamed and cried and protested and called reps and done everything we could for 2 years while watching a genocide live on TV. For 2 years.
It's very cathartic to see that evil genocidal pedophile colony get its shit rocked. I cheered watching a hypersonic missile hit the Israeli Pentagon and I'll keep cheering.
Israel hit first. They called it preemptive but it was premeditated. Big difference. They punched above their weight now the hit dog is hollering. The very moment Israel sues for peace and comes to the table with concessions I'll support the violence coming to a negotiated end. And not a moment before. Until then. Pound them into fucking sand. Twist the goddamn knife.
Chump can get involved if he wants but I won't go die for Israel. Not for all the money held by the Forbes 500. If they call a draft I'll dodge it.
Iran has the right to defend itself.
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They punched above their weight now the hit dog is hollering
I fear this may not be true, Israel's military is quite robust at the moment compared to Iran's not even considering the inevitable western support
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Iran has the right to defend itself
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evil genocidal pedophile colony
I'm unfamiliar with what would make Israel a particularly pedophilic country. Can you explain that bit?
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Just what is a right, anyway?
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I don't think people are cheering on Iran, I think they're cheering for Israel to be on the receiving side of violence for once.
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Is it possible they are both just very very bad?
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Maybe they are cheering against Israel and not so much for Iran.
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“Lesser-evilism for me but not for thee”
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Purity politics needs to end. Some of you MFs need to learn strategy, and play a game like Civ. If Iran harasses Israel, bully for us. Two of the worst people we know are now fighting, we should celebrate this reprieve.
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Is the Iran regime bad? Yes. Are they colonial outpost that is actively committing genocide? No. Are the Iranian people settlers like the Israelis? No.
Who is dragging the US into war with Iran and potentially WW3? Israel.
Does this help maybe?
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Me when a guy in a white supremacist administration makes a nazi salute and the ADL goes "no, it wasn't"
Me when an interest group which for decades has cried out against genocide and targeted ethno-religious persecution actively and deliberately proclaims it is going to eliminate an entire ethno-religious group from a large area of land
Me when people are defending that
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The Christian Right that faithfully facilitates Israel's decades of war crimes surely has no problem with gay people.
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Iran has multiple orders of magnitude on its hands - gay or otherwise - than any country that supports Israel.
If you can understand why people cheered on the British Empire during World War Two - even though it was one of the most brutal, genocidal entities in history - but can't understand why people would critically support Iran now, you are just a white supremacist.
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Calling people out for supporting Iran which actively tortures atheists, LGBT people, and beats women to death for not wearing a hijab is "white supremacy"?
Take it out of the box and put it back in please buddy, I'm worried for ya.
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Well you've already shown you don't actually care about those people. And if you think Iran is qualitivly worse than the British Empire, then yeah, you're definitely a white supremacist.
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Are you talking about Iran or about Saudi Arabia?
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'Cause of religion. Don't leave that part out. Also, remember, the US has an office of faith now. lmao
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'Cause of religion. Don't leave that part out
Very much not because of religion, and I say this as a staunch atheist. Iran was well on its way to progressive and secular reform, separation of state and church, and leftism, during the government coalition that put Mosaddegh in the government somewhat above half a century ago. It was the US + UK who militarily embargoed the country and bribed authorities, mafias and religious leaders, as well as paid actors to destroy private property and pretend to be progovernment, in order to (sadly successfully)'coup the president because British Petroleum wanted absolute control of Iranian oil.
The west destroyed Iran, it's not religion that did. We literally supported the Shah at the time.
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Bro we've had a faith office since Bush 2.
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you have a what now?
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OfIcE oF fAiTh! Saddly that really sums up what we have.
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'Cause of religion.
Oil, actually.
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People literally are cheering for Iran, hence the meme. Me pointing out that cheering for a country that executes people who don't conform to religious law is wrong is oddly contentious, proving my point.
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Like how you were cheering on Israel just a day ago when they were leveling apartment buildings in Tehran.
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It's really not much of a statement to say someone out there has that opinion. There will always be extreme people with extreme takes meant to be so. and a lot of people that disagree with you. Do not mistake it for more common just because you see it, and do not mistake others sympathy for victims of atrocities as more than that.
You think it's wrong, that's your opinion on it. But maybe just argue with the people doing it that you disagree with instead of deciding all the people that don't agree with you are in on it.
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Every country is fucked now. There are no heroes, only victims and victimizers.
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reactionaries. they can't handle nuance, only oppositional tribes.
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I've been getting told for three years that having nuance makes you a Putin shill.
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"Me no like cruel tribe. Cruel tribe bomb new tribe, new tribe good????"
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It's not so much cheering on Iran, but not giving a shit about Israel. Like, Israel just attacked Iran, they reap what they sow.
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Everybody sucks in this conflict.
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If you're a westerner, your country is actively supporting only one of those sides, so your political aim according to your opinion should be ending all support to that side. Why focus on the other?
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Same was true of World War Two, same is true in Russia/Ukraine. And yet it's clear which side the good one is
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You guys also realize gay people in Gaza are also persecuted, right?
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In this conflict I learned to take no side, except the one of the victims who didn't ask to be involved.
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Are we confusing governments for the civilians who live under their rule?
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Some people are, yes.
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eating popcorn on the governments.. crying for the actual people and helping refugees any way I can in my HC job. Knowing that we are probably a few months away from the government taking us and our paid off house for some 200 year old law the rest of the nation determined to be moot under subsequent laws past and relative peace for decades. God help us.
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ofcourse i do. our cops are racists thugs and i detest them. but in a fight between them and some serial pedophile child murderer, no doubt i will be cheering for the cops and handing them redbull until the pedophile is dead.
and israel is exactly that, they find joy in murdering an innocent family for fun and then block/bomb medical aid so that injured kids die a painful death. if they survive somehow then they do their best to starve them to death.
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L take dude. I'm cheering the trump elon beef too but I hate both those freaks.
I personally dislike it because civilians will die over it but maybe less than if they didn't fight back and show isreal consequences? Idk I'm just an idiot. But fuck the leaders tho.
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L take if I called out people suddenly being Pro-Muskrat because he's beefing with Trump? Both sides suck here, and I see so-called leftists rooting for a hyperconservative country that exterminate their LGBT population.
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That's not a justification, Israel is also killing Iranian gay people...
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Coulda fooled me when I see people cheer on a country that tortures atheists and beats women to death for the clothes they wear.
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It's okay to kill hundreds of thousands of people of a different ethnicity and religion than you just as long as you don't hate gay people?
Man the bar is fuckin low
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Like how you were cheering on Israel just a day ago when they were leveling apartment buildings in Tehran.
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What about a country that makes neo Nazis part of it's armed forces and venerates people who participated in the holocaust?
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Same when people started calling Hamas "freedom fighters".
I refuse to believe these people are really tbh. Or they're just mentally deranged vocal minority
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Yeah, next people will be saying the ANC were actually freedom fighters!
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They're terrorists fighting a terrorist state. The problem here is the Palestinian people being caught in the middle and being used as human shields by both sides. And one side has a certain extra burn to it because they should know better than to just openly commit genocide. Even the Nazis hid it better. All Israel is doing is just murdering journalists. At least have some shame in your genocide, ya know?
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They are. Slave rebellions in the US ended up in situations where civilians were killed. That doesn't change peoples view today that they were rightful today and that they were fighting for their freedom.
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Not even remotely the same thing. More apt comparison would be Iranian government or Putin or do you forget that Hamas brutally ruled Gaza for years?
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Same when people started calling Hamas “freedom fighters”.
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I'm sorry but that's just idiotic. Gazans were terrorized by Hamas for years themselves. They're not freedom fighters no matter how you look at it.
Would you say Putin is a freedom fighter?
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Genocide executioners vs Genocide executioners
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Iran isn't perpetrating a genocide, what the hell are you talking about?
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Why show support for either?
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Why would you support either side in World War 2?
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You don't have to chose between those those two, you know?
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Victims of imperialism vs Aggressors of imperialism
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Imagine believing the usa is "getting sucked into" this and not a root cause of the problem.
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My thoughts watching this shit:
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So then what we have here is a conflict between unrepentant, even gleeful genociders, and a bigoted theocratic terrorist state... I mean. They're the same picture.
You're trying to whatabout the unjustifiable barbarism of the Israeli state Zionists who are hell bent on tying practicing Jews and the diaspora to their psycopathic crimes against humanity. Whether you realize it or not.
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I don't think either strikes were good, but I do think that there's a double standard, Israels strikes were fine, but Iran's aren't?
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Coverage has been pretty even handed by the news outlets I use, not so much from the lemmings gallery.
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Here in the UK its been pretty one sided talking about how Israel has a right to defend itself mostly talking around the fact that Israel shot first.
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is this the definition of a straw man argument?
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no a straw man is where you assign a position to someone that's weaker than their actual position and go ham on that instead.
like this asshole bloviating about OP being pro-Israel when OP didn't say or imply anything about Israel in the post, and has made it clear in the comments that that is not their position.
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No one is cheering for "Iran". They are cheering for a country standing up for itself against an aggressive colonizing force bent on expansionism through violent actions currently engaged in unwarranted genocide.
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It's pretty "funny" the amount of people who imagine this as some "foreign conflict" between "two sides", when it's a direct continuation of USAian imperialism. It's not surprising that brainwashed libs are hating on an "official enemy". Libs and their politicians have supported these attacks on Iran for decades.
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I mean executing gay people is better than executing everyone, which is what Israel is doing and Iran is the only independent actor meaningfully acting to prevent.
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No, it is not better. It is equally as bad. Stop with the moronic "they are opposing my enemy so they must be my hero" nonsense. It makes you as bad as them.
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LGBT oppression isn't equally as bad as genocide what the heck?
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You would have said the same thing and World War Two (if you were consistent)
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Iran is doing Jack shit to prevent a genocide, they are merely reacting to getting bombed.
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I mean, basically all resistance to Israeli occupation and genocide in the region is armed by Iran, even without Israeli bombs dropping from the sky. This is, of course, more about the geopolitical rivalry between Iran and Israel than Khomeini's humanitarian sensibilities, but it's still true that a Middle East without an active Iran would be a lot better for Israel and a lot worse for everyone under their thumb.
Edit: And what Israel is trying to accomplish here (and has been trying to accomplish for decades) is defang Iran specifically because Iran is their only major geopolitical adversary. I don't have to like Iran (which I don't, to be clear) to believe that Israel's goals and methods are despicable and hope they fail.
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OK, let's go one step further: why did Iran get bombed by Israel? Huh, what do you mean Iran consistently opposed the stance, policy and even the existence of the genocidal Zionist entity? Nah, history begins on June 13th, much like it used to begin on Oct. 7th
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Unfortunately, people are dying, not the dictators. For no fucking reason.
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I agree! It's the lunatics rooting for the Iranian government making me the meme above. Fortunately there aren't many Israel supporters to see.
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Well, people die.
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Iran is killing civilians in Ukraine. Iran can burn.
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Lol, asking if the same sentiment applied to Ukraine for supporting Israel for my comment removed.
Do you want to at least pretend you don't have a double standard, mods?
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there's a rule against misinformation, it was probably that.
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Why the hell does free discourse need moderators?
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What about Israel thats actively committing genocide and started its state with ethnic cleansing?
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Sure, them too.
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I love Iran's queers and feminists. I hope they come out of this conflict better off than they went in.
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Crazy that both these countries exist in the way that they do because of the us
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Its almost like that should be taught in school. Iran was one of the nations subject to a CIA orchetrated coup because they wanted to nationalize their oil reserves.
But since its not relevant to vibe coding I doubt it'll make it into the curriculum.
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Don't forget the British involvement, it was British Petroleum that was the most threatened, and the British army militarily blockading Iranian oil from being exported.
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I mean history in US schools is incredibly sanitized in general, they don't want you to know things that make them look bad! And if you must know, they always say how NECESSARY it was. Like the atrocities that were the atomic bombs
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Guess what?
This isnt about you.
Not the place for your identity politics.
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Yeah no I'm going to shit on pro-theocrats.
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Two wrongs don't make a right.
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I hope they both lose.
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Would you have said the same in World War 2? Or are you racist hypocrite?
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What do you think they are trying to do in the USA ?
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send that shit over yptb, 24bugsinabigcoat did nothing wrong
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One genocides a subjugated population, the other exterminates queer folks
Just let them have their squabble, walk away, do not touch, discourage others from approaching, bad time for all
America needs to back off and not get involved
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Israel has exterminated more queer people in the last month than Iran in the last twenty years.
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America needs to back off and not get involved
Luckily our commander in chief is already busy fighting wars against Canada, Greenland, Panama, and the United States.
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I think a lot of people are glad that Israel is actually attacking somebody who can fight back now instead of more innocent defenseless children in their open air death camp.
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Iran, is the heart of resistance against the Evil Empire
Edit cope harder yanks
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Yeah nah. Iran is at the heart of Evil
EmpireAlliance A and Israel is at the heart of Evil Alliance BThere is nothing good about Iran or Israel's govt. They're both evil, and they're aligned with countries some of whom are also doing (or have done) evil.
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This is a false equivalence. Iran's government has human rights issues, but the US-Israel alliance has caused far more global military destruction and civilian casualties since 1948
US invasions span every continent killing millions whereas Iran has never before attacked a country directly.
Iran hasn't overthrown dozens of governments in regime change operations either.
Turning this into a "Both sides" arguments ignores demonstrable empirical differences in death and destruction.
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They don't even pay you to spin things on Lemmy...
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Iran does bad things, yet you cheer their actions. Curious. - Charlie Kirk
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yeah yeah let's go war! morons. USA executes poor people, gay or not. how is that for equality and representation?
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Is it possible to cheer an action but not the actor?
Like, if someone swims out to save a drowning kid but it turns out they were only there to dump a dead body, can I still be glad they saved the kid?
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I was just banned from world news by @geneva_convenience for daring to voice this outrageous opinion. This conflict is Gilead vs Nazis. Neither side is the 'good guy'. Whoever wins, freedom and equality loses.
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lmao, I think I've had a conversation with that account holder before
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Ay yes, Iran, so progressive
Yes this is what the Iranian government y'all god-damn mental broads are cheering on does
Disgusting
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Reminds me of the irony that the country that turned the tide against Nazism was the country that killed, displaced, and imprisoned almost the whole indigenous population.
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America literally executes Down's people.
So now what? We're supposed to cheer on Israel, who literally starves children, because sometimes Iran does things as bad as we do?
Twist your brain more into a pretzel, why don't you.
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Listen, years ago I rode with Juárez against Emperor Maximilian. I lost many chickens but I thought it was worth it to be free. When Porfirio became President, I supported him – but he stole my chickens. Then came Huerta and he stole my chickens. Then it was Carranza’s term, and he stole my chickens too. Now comes Pancho Villa to liberate me and the first thing he does is steal my chickens.(…) What makes one different from the others? My chickens don’t know. All over the world revolutions come and go. Presidents rise and fall. They all stole your chickens. The only thing to change is the name of the man who takes them.
―Old Man in Pueblo, Young Indiana Jones
Or for a more modern version
The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace: They never are.
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Do you wish the same for western countries, most of which support the genocide in Palestine through the economic, diplomatic and military ties with Israel?
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Do you say the same about World War Two? Ukraine Russia?
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Hey buddy, you gotta understand that we're not far from that here soooo...
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Hey buddy, there was literally a parade celebrating them last week in my city instead of a public execution for them. Not close.
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Give it a bit. Your city doesn't exist in a vacuum.
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i find a lot of queer people have the same issues as feminist white women, “which is how can i make this about me?”
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Considering the murder of the little Iranian girl for not wearing a headscarf, they seem to have relaxed that requirement. Still a shitty country. But the instigator is Israel and the USA right nowm
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Yeah, when a country persecutes queer people they lose the right to defend themselves from countries building weapons caches in their boarders. Then using those caches to blow up civilians.
That's why I'm in favour of bombing London and Florida.
Do you see how fucking stupid you are?
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Is not like we have only 2 options. Their is some people organized for emancipation and against their own states in both Iran and Israel. Campism forget people in focusing on states. That a shame that somme commies took this path : "the freedom of the workers will be build by the workers themselves " - 1st international statutes
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Reading through these comments gives me very little hope. There are a lot of dumbasses with dumbass opinions.
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Whoever loses, we win?
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Ironic, considering both Israel and Iran exist in the form they do because of US intervention lol
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Yah, I have no dog in this fight. I just don't want to get drawn into it. I am over the ME for good. No good actors.
However, I wish my nation would welcome refugees, the innocents who are caught up in this and need refuge and asylum. So... the US sucks too for not offering it. I cared for a young woman from Iraq, a refugee, the other day. She spent 8 years in a refugee camp in Turkey (d/t Trump immigration/refugee bans) before finally coming here. She has 2 children, a worried husband and she is pretty sick now. I hope she can get the surgery she needs.
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have no dog in this fight. I just don't want to get drawn into it.
Then you surely are protesting against the US very much being drawn into it by funding and arming the genocidal Zionist entity?
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The US is an active participant in the fight
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People un ironically being stans of Iran lmao
I thought I had seen everything when you lot started openly supporting Hamas terrorists, but this takes the cake of my god hahahahaha
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Just a good old fashioned, the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation.
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The whole point of the meme is that you absolutely should not be friends with Iran which beats women to death for not wearing hijabs and tortures atheists and LGBTQ people.
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/thread
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Yeah man, gay people are not worth it
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ITT:
-> normal people understand this is a gentle reminder as we celebrate Israel getting punched in the mouth that there aren't actually any good guys here
-> absolute jackasses frame this within a false dichotomy to criticize OP, and then 'splain false dichotomies to the rest of us like we're stupid.
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It's the Duke vs UNC or UGA vs Bama, while you wish they could both lose, it's not really an option.
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492 comments
This is a "let them fight" situation
I guess but it sucks for civilians caught in the crossfire. Can’t we just have a Khamenei/Bibi cage fight instead?
And then we just don’t let the winner out of the cage.
I'd be down for that. Let the leaders fight!
The problem is, large parts of each country are supporting their government in what they're doing.
Make it a knife fight.
There are no winners in a knife fight.
IMO a major reason that Israel is levelling Gaza is that it's a one-sided conflict where Israelis are not getting killed. There are apparently 53 Israeli hostages right now, but more than 20,000 Gazans have been killed. There is some pressure to end the conflict, but not enough. If it were a war where Israelis were being killed too, it would end a lot quicker.
I know the Iran / Israel conflict is a different one, but if enough Israelis stop supporting Netanyahu, both conflicts might end. Israeli civilians dying might be the only thing that will stop Netanyahu.
Iran has the right to defend itself, as they like to say
Another reason to hate Israel. They're making me agree with Iran.
Ew.
According to Veritasium and Game Theory (The prisoners dilemma) a retaliation is what should be done in this case
https://youtu.be/mScpHTIi-kM
Agreed. The the enemy of my enemy is my, uh, enemy? They both suck lol
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's other enemy.
Nothing more, nothing less
Just to add that I have become quite allergic to the “pre-emptive strike”, “weapons of mass destruction “ justification for war. Have we learned nothing?
We did learn that orchestrating these gets you paraded around by the "progressive" party in the US during the last election...
That'd be pretty swell, but then maybe please don't go defend Israel from the consequences of its actions?
You would have said the same thing about World War 2.
Which side is supposed to be Poland in your shitty analogy?