Pls pls pls....
Pls pls pls....
269 comments
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Went to a metal concert last year for a huge, well known band. The number of punisher/warrior, thin blue line, militia-styled ragged flag, Gadsden shirts and hats was off the charts.
In my younger days metal was anti-authoritarianism, anti-cop, anti-conformity… now these clowns are the ones who want to be holding the riot batons, the body armor, and support the very fascists we hated.
I got plenty of grey hair, the crowd around me didn’t so I’m thinking there’s a generational shift to metal going fascist.
Yeah, the meme rings pretty true.
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Your comment reminds me of Metallica many years ago. Their first albums were really good I thought. Then they cut their hair, their music started to sound more mainstream and I heard from friends that the band kind apologized for the anti war lyrics on their earlier albums. I guess money talks in strange ways.
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That’s the band.
Funny enough they still play those same anti-war songs off the early albums. Play what pays so they can ride around in their private jets.
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You know you're in a room full of true metal heads when everyone has distinctly point to when metallica started to suck, especially if they all point to different albums.
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I find that whenever I go to metal shows, most people are very kind, polite and free of bigotry. Maybe what you're describing is a US thing, or maybe it's just that Metallica is a super mainstream band which attracts more dickheads than your average metal show.
I know metalheads have a history of gatekeeping, and keeping these fascists away from the scene should be priority #1.-
I can only offer what I experienced at the show I attended. Metallica was touring with Five Finger Death Punch, a very much right-wing "military rock" band that just sucks IMO. They straight up dog whistled the right wingers in the crowd using a lot of "there's something wrong in this country" type of commentary. Metallica bringing them on tour doesn't really change my growing opinion that Metallica supports right wing ideology. My understanding of the greater Metal crowd is that they are indeed good people, I went to an Industrial Metal concert a few weeks back and it was free of the iconography I saw at the Metallica show, and everyone was great. We had a good time. It was also the loudest show I think I've ever been to. Thank goodness for earplugs, lol.
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Heh. Yeah I thought Metallica were anti "the man" when I was a teen but the Napster case showed me that they were the man
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They’re just rich old white dudes and everything that goes with it.
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That's crazy, around here I saw a guy get his ass thrown out of a metal bar for having a burzum patch last month. They also forced a guy to either leave, invert his vest or remove a mayhem patch. The scene here is pretty intensely antifascist.
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Considering the size of the crowd I don’t think anyone was throwing anyone out at the event I attended. I mentioned elsewhere that Five Finger Death Punch was part of the act, and they are absolutely right wing. Anyway, from the conversation here and the reading I did about Metallica/Hetfield, I’m forming the opinion that Metallica is different than the metal bands that everyone is talking about, partially because of their fame and visibility. They’re the rich old white men of Metal, and all the get off my lawn that goes with it.
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Oh, I don't like metal and still considered them to be a mostly apolitical group of weird nerds. But it probably fits to the general trend of neonazis trying to infiltrate and overtake other subcultures. Oi! just doesn't draw large crowds I guess, probably Punk rock in general is not such a big thing anymore?
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Some Punk went mainstream, but even then I think Punk still holds on to that anti-authority ideology better. Greenday's recent commentary on the Right Wing stirred things up a bit.
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It makes sense that those types would join the punk /metal scene. It's a scene made up of those on the fringes of society who are rebelling against authority (regardless of what that authority may be) and who are willing to accept anyone like them.
I've met plenty of LGBT, geeks, on the spectrum and otherwise different folk who are part of the punk and metal scenes.
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To a lot of young people, myself included. The authority, or at least the authority we interact with- is progressive. So something like a thin blue line flag is rejecting that authority. Also the Gadsden flag has always been anti-authority.
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The thin blue line is literally pro-cop you twat.
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Yeah. To a lot of young, vulnerable people who are less minoritized, progressives feel like the authority. You're told you're privileged, but you don't feel it. This is partially because we take our personal experiences for granted, but also because even the relatively privileged struggle. Some people suffer more from the system than others, but a ton of things suck for everyone.
Unfortunately, the promises of the right are a monkey's paw at best, or a scam at worst. Even if the right succeeds, they usually make things worse for everyone in the process, even themselves.
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Me hoping the new YouTuber I found hasn't tried to chat-up any underage girls.
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Challenge: impossible
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Lul you're not kidding. It's crazy to see how often you hear that happening and it happens with all sorts of youtubers not just weeb and gamers.
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Nazis ruin everything. Just like how the Nazis ruined the skinhead subculture.
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The Youtube algorithm just showed me a video about that the other day. I didn't even know that they originally had nothing to do with being right-wing fascists.
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My entire understanding of skinheads was "skinheads are fascists" and I never delved any deeper into it. Until the other month when my barber told me I should consider getting a chelsea cut, my gut reaction being "why would I want to look like a neonazi?"
But one simple online search later, and I went back for the shave. The original sentiment of the skinhead culture is slowly being reclaimed, though there will always be two potential interpretations of what someone with that style stands for, I'll happily rock my skinbird cut at union rallies and antifa protective counter-protests when actual nazis try to raid our local queer clubs.
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Unfortunately any anti-establishment counter-culture movement that is predominantly white will attract Nazis. And these nazis often don't even know they are one. You even see it in some far left movements. There are people in those movements who call themselves lefties yet have espoused right wing fascist ideology
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I know people are saying it's a Black Metal issue, but uh... Pantera :(
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Oh goddammit.
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Yeah I can't even listen to 'Walk' anymore, fuck.
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Yeah Nazis are a problem in pretty much all subcultures. Industrial, punk, goth, and so on. Subcultures attract people who don't feel like they have a place, and this is the group extremist groups target.
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I would've thought Dimebag's guitar would've given it away long before this.
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Metal bands are mostly nazis? Is that the news "satanic scare" like we had in the 80's?
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Not metal generally, but you should look into Death Metal. It's a real problem there... :-/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Socialist_black_metal_bands
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Lol, a lot of those names are a little too on the nose. I mean Kristalnacht and Infernall SS? Can't imagine making a wrong assumption on those
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says Death Metal
links Black Metal
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This is a tiny portion of black metal in a sub genre . But it isn’t surprising that an extreme genre with a strong counter culture doesn’t have some extreme spin-offs.
Also you can tell which bands are in NSBM because they are all terrible at actually making music.
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Of course there are nazis bands, especially I'm black metal. But that's a minority, and they generally suck anyway. But I'm not into BM at all personally, so I don't bother tbh.
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When I was in high school, the worry was finding a cool punk band and discovering they were skinheads.
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"skinhead" isnt as settled a term as it may appear. Nazi fucks gave punk a bad name by getting associated with them.
https://www.gq.com/story/punks-and-nazis-oral-history
Some reading for those unfamiliar.
Theres a good documentary i cant find explaining the history of skinheads. If i find it ill post it too
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I'm active in the punk scene and I know a lot of skinheads and they're all hardcore antifascists.
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In the US "skinhead" has a different meaning besides just being bald and aggressive. It's what neo-nazis are referred to as because they co-opted that whole punk look.
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People who listened to Lostprophets in 200X
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I'd argue that the problem with Lost Prophets wasn't necessarily their political views though...
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Yeah, it was entirely the music.
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Never happened to me, but I also don't listen to metal.
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Definitely did that with Sabaton
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They had a concert in occupied Crimea in 2015.
But after the war, they distanced themselves from current events.
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Reading these comments is making me sweat nervously because I made an 80s-themed submod for a racing game with era-appropriate metal music, and it seems that a decent chunk of the bands I chose for the soundtrack turned out to be fascist or fascist-sympathizing 😓
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Bold of you to assume I know anything about the artists I listen to
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Saw a random YouTuber I thought I liked do a livestream. He usually does reactionary or random updates content.
I go in and he's ragging on Biden and I see people doing SuperChats with pro-Trump messages and just casual racism. Apparently, Biden's PR person probably should have been white according to these guys. I ducked out, was quite kinda sad.
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When I was like 13 and was learning to play guitar, I learned sooo many songs by Avenged Sevenfold. And then I saw pictures of them playing concerts with the confederate flag, and even had custom confederate flag guitars. I lived a pretty sheltered life and didn't quite understand how big of a deal that was at the time, but it definitely felt a little gross to me. I slowly stopped listening to them.
They did eventually come out and say that they regret doing that, for what it's worth. But I never went back to listening to them.
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Dethklok seems pretty safe.
There isn't all that much out there about Brendon Small though and what I could find he should be a decent enough person....plus I liked Metalocalypse quite a bit, so that helps me 😁
Dunno much about Bryan Beller, Nili Brosh or Gene Hoglan, just saw a few random videos with them so hard to gauge.
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Gojira are environmental and humanist activists to a certain degree. At least in their music that is.
Plus they fucking rock, holy shit.
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WHAAAAAAAAAALES
But yeah having a whole song about the Amazon burning that happens to also have some stellar riffs? Yeah I'm on board
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Just listen to cattle decap. The morally superior band. Kidding. They're pretty great tho, more people should listen to cattle decapitation. Especially the later albums which are more approachable
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Brendon Small made Home Movies. He has to be a decent person. I will be very upset if he isn't. I may have to go poke him in the eye if he isn't.
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A few years ago I found this band I liked - then I saw they literally played a concert for the staff at Guantanamo. Man... that was sickening.
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...or pedos.
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Well, that's the entire music industry until 1990 right out
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I don't think he's an out-and-out white supremacist, but one of the weirdest heel-turns ever was seeing actual Latino immigrant Tom Araya go from being the face of the evilest thrash metal band in the world to an outspoken evangelical Catholic MAGA-pilled Trump supporter.
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I don't think it's uncommon unfortunately for immigrants who make their money to then move to the right of the political spectrum from a "I got mine" point of view. The right welcomes these new voices because they can point at them and say they aren't racist, and that there aren't systemic issues, not recognizing that the individual who was successful was so in spite of the barriers.
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Yea as a Mexican whose lived in multiple states in Mexico patriarchy and conservatism is still very much alive, especially in smaller areas. It's getting better but it's still a very religious country. They suffer from much of the same things the US does when it comes with dealing with conservatives. Instead of it being about white power it's just about patriarchy and religion and good old conservatism. Doesn't help that a lot of the population is barely literate and many don't go to or graduate high school. In my experience, graduating high-school is seen like getting an associates degree In the US.
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My own experience as an immigrant from a country - Portugal - which both is the source of lots of economic emigrants and nowadays takes in lots of economic immigrants, is that unlike the wunderlust kind of migrant (which tends to be open minded and hence to the left of the political spectrum), the economic kind tend to be significantly more to the right.
You can see that for Portugal in both how the traditional center-right (and in the last elections the far-right) gets a higher percentage of votes from emmigrants than they get in Portugal itself and amongst Brasilians (the largest foreign group by far) living in Portugal Bolsonaro got a signiticantly higher vote percentage in the last two elections than he did in Brasil.
I don't fully understand why it so. My theory is that it's a mix of the heightened nationalism that one gets when living abroad (worse for economic immigrants who felt forced to leave and miss a lot more all that they grew up with), the way many poor or working class people who never actually seen real wealth up close think they're "rich" when they make a bit more than their average countryman (same effect as how moderatelly successful shop owners with little formal education with modest background tend to turn into rightwingers) and that economic migrantes tend to be overwhelmingly be the ones with less formal education who feel much more pressure to leave their country due to low income that more highly educated countrymen.
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don't think he's an out-and-out white supremacist
outspoken evangelical Catholic MAGA-pilled Trump supporter
Bruh, what?
No my clothes arent soaking wet, they are just well hydrated.
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i can remember back in the late 90/early 2000, that the right wingers pushed hard into the goth and metal scene here, looking for new recruits. it definitely felt like a targeted approach, and they did the same with the techno scene before (where they were mostly thrown out). they had more success in the folk scene, but they slowly gained ground over the last years. this sucks :-(
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They didn't realize that most of the metal scene has connection with the punk scene, and the punk scene is full of anarchists and anti-fascists. It's weird how much success they had with the country music scene.
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they had more success in the folk scene
Who could forget the absolute renaissance of ultra-nationalist country songs that inundated the country after 9/11?
I was practically begging for some Big and Rich just to get people to stop playing that Ted Nugget slop, by the time I was out of college.
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sEpErAtE ThE aRtIsT fRoM tHe ArT
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Normally I wouldn't care what person made the music I enjoy, but if they turn out to be a total bag of shit, I just can't bring myself to enjoy the music, no matter how good it might be.
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the Kanye West rule
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Its kinda funny how I used to see bands that had really good music and shit politics, because the political views were trendy but the music scene was very open and diverse.
Now I see musicians that suck absolute dog turds somehow squeezing themselves up and out the ass of the Billboard 100, because some douche noozle billionaire bought a million copies of their album sound unheard just to get them trending on Spotify.
Whether its "Rich men north of Richmond" or Whatever the Fuck This Is these attempts at music are comically bad. At this point, I would happily trade whatever leftist-ish club music we occasionally get as trickle down for some modern day Morrissey.
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Nobody ever says this about mediocre acts that are really great people in their personal life. You'll never hear someone say "This song is kinda mid but thats because they recorded it while working at a refugee camp!"
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That's because not much people care about art that doesn't have wide appeal, so there's even less of a chance of anyone making themselves that question.
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People do say that, but then that does not make the song more enjoyable, to me at least.
Theres a difference between “he recorded that in a camper van, thats pretty cool” and “daamn that was recorded it a camper van”.
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Meh, I personally believe in that but I'm not going to go tell other people what to do
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I think there can be a more nuanced conversation to be had about that, like say what "The smiths" were and what "Morrissey" actually seems to be. To be honest there's not a whole lot of good art made by outward racists. None of those people will see a single dime from me but if you're discussing in good faith i don't necessary think it's completely a dumb idea.
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I can't be expected to research every individual in every band I listen to. That's hundreds, possibly thousands, of musicians.
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Art and artist can be separated. I mean, even this painting shows technical merit?
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Not enough to get him into art school.
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That's some nice architectural art, who did that?
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For a middleschooler? Sure. For an adult trying to pursue a career as a painter? Nah. IDK if he didn't draw guide lines with a pencil before painting or what, but that's pretty bad on an entirely technical level.
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Is Sepultura safe?
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I'd say yes. According to their German Wikipedia entry, they support Sea Shepherd, environment and wildlife protection, and indigenous people in their fight against deforestation.
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Biboca, garagem, favela, porra!
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pizzacakecomics just chimed in
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I would say this problem mostly exists in black metal, and blackened subgenres. Not saying it doesn't exist in other metal genres, bit it's much rarer.
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I just consume
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Pirate music made by fascists. So you could enjoy, and you money will not armed another violent racist militia
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Based? Based.
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Wasn't there literally a metal singer named Herr Warcrimer
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Probably, I dunno what pointing that out does though, unless you think that it means all metal is nazi
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It's not, but clearly it is enough of a concern that people need to check...
The amount of rock musicians who are far-right homophobes is.. alarming pretty much any media with Kid Rock or Ted Nugent has aged like milk
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I mean Satan's worshipper are fine... I've been to one of their meetings once. Tons of delicious cookies and great coffee ☕️🍪
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Some verified non-nazi metal bands, of various sub genres.
Agriculture https://agriculturemusic.bandcamp.com/
Witch Fever https://www.witchfever.com/
Nuvolascura https://nuvolascura.bandcamp.com/
Genital Shame https://genitalshame.bandcamp.com/album/chronic-illness-wish
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Gojira
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I like Gojira too!
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99% of metal bands aren't nazi. The only way it's even kind of likely to find one accidentally is to delve into the depths of black metal, and even then it's not that common
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When looking for Black Metal, I can recommend the Antifascist Black Metal Network Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtjazZuy6AJ0rRtZ5bligMA
Also there's Grimestone Records for Black Metal and some other miscellaneous stuff: https://grimestone.bandcamp.com/
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If you've never paid a dime and have no friends to recommend music to, then you're not supporting the artist. Just enjoy the art.
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I don't know that I would agree. Bill Cosby was undeniably a brilliant and very funny comedian, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy his art now even if I pirated it. I know who he is.
So I think the only way I could just enjoy the art of a band that were all Nazis was to be ignorant of that fact.
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As someone who has been betrayed by people who love me, I've come to the realisation that it's hard to boil down one horrific aspect of someone's character as their whole.
Everyone, even those who have slaughtered children, has some tiny aspect of themself that is good -- and as a good relativist, I define good as someone contributing some aspect of themself to something that is greater than themselves.
When I listen to Michael Jackson's Earth Song, I don't picture him fiddling with kids, I hear the sentiment of his words in that moment contributing to the green movement in which he inspired a new generation of activists (some exaggeration here, but you get what I mean).
Michael Jackson doesn't mention himself in his songs, he talks about other things and weaves stories that resonate with me on some level. In those moments, it doesn't matter who wrote those sentiments, I'm just happy that someone did and that they exist.
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yeah this i dislike the comic because it normalizes/encourages obsessively investigating the creators of your media to find out if they're Nazis. You should read about the author for its own sake because it's interesting, not feel compelled to do it.
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The classical music world has been through this before, with Richard Wagner. Orchestras in Israel wouldn't play his music for decades, but eventually, even they relented. It's good music. Well, I mean, between the boring halves of hours, anyway, it's good music.
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Or you can not be a little crybaby
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If there are 4 people at a table, and one of them is a nazi, and the other 3 people don't leave the table, then there are 4 nazis at the table. Complacency is complicity.
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I guess we are all pedophiles too by your logic, since we let them live amongst us.
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sees Nazi, doxes him to his work, his family, every girl he has in his contacts
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Do I even fucking know what metal is anymore? Did I ever??? It was not always like this, not like this. .. ..... right?
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Even bands that aren't big on politics know to beat up Nazis at their shows. It's just common sense.
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This is why I mostly listen to prog, they're all way too high to hate anyone.
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Roger Waters enters the chat
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Hating the hateful doesn't count. Waters may be an asshole, but his politics are fairly based. Even his bad takes come from leftist viewpoints.
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Just don't worry about it. Once upon a time a couple decades ago, we didn't know anything about musicians' private lives, other than what was released through their PR managers. It was a happier, simpler time. After years of being disappointed with the people whose work I respect, I finally just started avoiding learning anything about the people themselves. Of course people who are idolized by millions of other people, have unlimited money, and are surrounded by yes men are going to be cringe in one way or another. I don't want to hear about it, I want to enjoy my music.
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Once upon a time a couple decades ago, we didn’t know anything about musicians’ private lives
Oh sure. Famously, nobody read tabloids or did muckrack journalism prior to 1990.
And there certainly wasn't a hotbed of right-wing media focused on outing popular musicians as gay or slandering artists for being minorities or women.
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This is my take, too. Do I condone their shitbagged-ness? no. I'm not guilty by association for listening to their music, which is practically free to me, unless I identify with their lyrics and stuff.
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RABM is nice to find non-shitheads.
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What's RABM ?
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Red/Anarchist Black Metal. In response to NSBM, National Socialist Black Metal, RABM was formed, it's an umbrella term for outwardly leftist Black Metal as opposed to outwardly Nazi Black Metal. Marxists and Anarchists describe themselves as RABM if they want to signal their views faster.
Panopticon is a good example.
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I offer a solution: Death of the Author.
A good song is a good song, give no fucks about who made it.
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That depends on how I'm getting the product. I'd rather not funnel money to nazis if at all possible.
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Related question : is OOMPH fascist ? Their song “Europa” really worried me, so I stopped listening. But I only partially understand German, so I could be mistaken ? Can someone tell me ?
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To me, Europa was mostly chastising the EU that despite its power, it was unable to be decisive and save refugees and migrants who died, and the situation is killing the EU through the rise of fascism.
I mean:
And came from the outside
\ They come in droves
\ But you had no mercy
\ Dead bodies were floating on the seaI think this is leftist criticism of the EU, if anything.
Listen to their new album, Richter und Henker, it will clear it up.
The titular song "Richter und Henker" is against populist-fascist movements, "Nur ein Mensch" is anti-nationalist, "Ein Kleines bisschen Glück" is anti-capitalist.
They are leftists through and through. Individually you could try and get them wrong, but together it's clear as day to me.
I mean lyrics like:
People follow the charlatan
\ Declare others lower than themselves
\ Eat from the hand
\ And call that resistanceor
We face each other
\ In the name of the nation
\ Brothers kill brothers
\ War is perversionBlood doesn’t follow a flag
\ Blood has only one colour
\ You are exactly like me...
\ Just like meor even
Wrath is just fear dressed in black
\ It is the curse of our timesand
We humans out here, how did we want to be?
\ Who makes our dreams, who plants them in us?
\ Who lives our life while we merely lead it?
\ Entangled in the duties that bind us tightPeople must function in the depths of debt
\ Because what was hard fought for, they don't want to lose again
\ Because sweat, blood and tears, they were otherwise for nothing
\ But what we own also owns usPeople look for a little bit of happiness
\ But that consumes them piece by piece
\ Because what you give never comes back
\ And that slowly sucks us dryEdits: formatting and another verse
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Europa looks like it's saying immigration is destroying Europe to me, although my German is not very good at all. However, Oomph apparently fired their original singer in 2021 after he went off the alt-right deep end, and Europa is from the last album before thst happened. I don't know what the new singer is like at all, but it does suggest that the rest of the band wanted to distance themselves from that
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Hard to interpret from that song, the lyrics seem more critical of european imperialism and the response to immigration (shooting immigrant boats) than the opposite to me. I can't find anything about right wing lyrical themes in oomph songs from a quick google in german either, so I wouldn't worry I guess. Maybe someone knows more.
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Maybe you should ask yourself why you like a lot of the media Nazis like.
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"You know who else was a vegetarian!? That's right-"
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I won't let nazi fucks take metal away from me
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That's stupid. Metal is fun, and Nazis don't own it, nor can they take it away from the vast majority of good people who play it and enjoy it. It has a bad rap from Satanic panic era bible-thumpers.
You wanna ban classical music? The OG Nazis loved that shit.
Just research the bands you like.
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If Hitler enjoyed eating pretzels, am I no longer allowed to enjoy a pretzel without being a Nazi?
What a pants on head stupid take.
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Nazis like motorracing they like walking and probably enjoy breathing also...what the fuck is your point
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Should probably be a community for these kinds of questions, but are Lucid Planet safe?
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Oh what's this? Allegations by... 35 women?
God dammit.
Bonus points for his fans shouting about how he wasn't convicted so "He was totally cleared of all that, they're just jealous psychos!"
Because everyone knows sexual assault is notoriously well dealt with.
Speaking from general life experience, a lot of those fans are
potential victims of the same treatment themselvesminors/womenSo if you have a child or friend that speaks like that, it is a red flag to pay closer attention to the people they build relationships with and their behavior. I'm not talking about protecting kids from drugs and sex, I mean protect them predators and abuse.
I mean, if none of the 35 allegations actually go anywhere, I'm not going to assume they actually did something either. Seems sus on all accounts.
Yeah. I find that a lot in very disparate genres, too. I pretty much have to look up anyone I like more than a little now.
When I found out about the guy from Crystal Castles 10 years after the fact... Yea major bummer. Sucks he's a POS and the things he's done, and the cherry on top is now I can't enjoy their music again.
…oh no. I’ve listened to him for ages. And due to a shitty shuffle I ended up with high listening hours. I remember his first handle and just told myself it was regarding the slang for cigarette. I’ll be going down this rabbit hole, thanks for the heads up
Not metal, but Ghost Mice really shocked me. The guy was like "yeah I did that shit, sorry" and was just never seen again.
Is this about Rammstein?
Rammstein isn't metal it's NDH. The Genre does have metal influence but you could just as well call it Industrial Punk (in particular in regards to Rammstein). There's plenty of groove metal in there if you know what to listen for but this doesn't sound anywhere close to Pantera.
And if Rammstein being a bunch of Punks with way too much artistic concept wasn't enough you have to literally ignore their Discography to think they're right-wing.