Americans don't want to fight for their country anymore
Americans don't want to fight for their country anymore
www.newsweek.com
Americans don't want to fight for their country anymore
130 comments
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Seems like he did. Sorry for your loss.
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I watched my dad have to stay in bed day after day because the VA fucked up his meds for millionth time, basically my whole time growing up... Yeah, saw it first hand too.
My condolences and fuck the ghouls who use people like that.
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The VA IS 100% ass. Personal experience with the VA.
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No, we don't want to fight for racist, corrupt, misogynous, traitorous shitheads like Trump and DeSantis.
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As pretty much any political minority will tell you, the country constantly uses us like ping pong balls and cat toys to win elections or internal battles.
I am sick of my rights, welfare, sense of safety, and hope for the future being dangled in front of me and ripped away over and over again so billionaires and career politicians can be greedy.
So, yeah. Not interested in serving. If my country wants me to fight for it, then it should fight for me as well.
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That was honestly the main reason why I didn't join the military over the last few years.
That and I just refuse to be a part of it.
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I have two sons in their early 20s and I’m scared to death one of these fascist chucklefucks decides to get us into some conflict we don’t need to be in just because he wants to prove he has BDE and reinstates the draft.
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I was in the Air Force in the late 70s. Twenty years ago (roughly) I pushed both my boys into the military, because they were being fuck-ups and I didn't know any other way at the time.
I'm thankful as all hell that they had the good sense to tell the military to get fucked when in Basic and got out.
Learn from my stupidity.
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Ah well, soldiers haven't fought for their country for decades. Instead they've been fighting for the interest of industrialized military, and the whims of politicians.
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the american military-industrical complex is little more than a welfare/jobs program for americans with profits made overseas while at home were prostetlized that were 'defending' ourselves with overt patriotism
its absolutely revolting, and it boggles my mind how anyone in the military can find this a good thing for humanity.
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Remember the video of the Iraq vet that was screaming at Bush to apologize in 2021 I think? He talked about all his friends being dead and a million Iraqis being dead all because of a bunch of lies. And while Iraq was one of the latest foreign failures, it was far from the only one. It just so happened to occur right around the same time the internet started connecting everyone. MSM couldn't whitewash or ignore what was actually happening like it could a few decades prior.
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A country is supposed to provide 4 things to it's citizens, and the united states are failing on all 4.
- food: “We are in danger of running out of food,” said Vince Hall, Feeding America’s chief government relations officer. “We are doing everything we can to avert a major hunger crisis.
- safe to drink water: Nearly half of the tap water in the US is contaminated with ‘forever chemicals,’ government study finds
- shelter: Homelessness rates have been climbing nationally by about 6% every year since 2017, the alliance said.
- safety: The record 48,830 total gun deaths in 2021 reflect a 23% increase since 2019
additionally, nearly every fundamental system (education, healthcare, insurance, car-dependent city designs, etc.) within the united states is designed to take everything away (or restrict access to everything) from it's citizens through poverty, thus making the above problems exponentially worse.
What is there to fight for?
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Exactly. The same idea can be used to explain voter disengagement. Why bother voting when both parties have engaged in scuzzy tactics, manipulation, lies and/or outright illegal activities?
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Eustice, who served 26 years in the Minnesota National Guard, noted that young adults were the military's prime target for new recruits—currently Generation Z, or those born after 1997—and argued that growing up in the internet age had made them used to "immediate gratification."
Oh look, another out of touch boomer. ItS tHoSe DaMn CeLlPhOnEs! Gen Z grew up watching America get involved in, then stay involved in, a deeply unpopular war. Gen Z grew up in an age where you can fact check someone on the spot and it makes it that much harder for recruiters to lie. They grew up in an age where half of the government is trying to drag the country backwards by any means.
I am in the military. I overheard my leadership talking with a woman who wanted to get out. When they asked her why she said it was because of the Roe V Wade decision. "Why would I fight for a country that won't fight for me?" I don't blame her.
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A person saying kids don't want to join the military because they're too used to "instant gratification" is some of the most obnoxious shit I have ever heard lmao
If someone went up to me and said that, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves and leave, because fuck all of that.
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I have a child who was born in 1999. The other thing men and women of that general age group has heard is "DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY" from their parents, starting at a young age.
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Yeah. I was in the military, the Marines in fact. I will tell my two children don't join the military, especially don't join the Marines, and if you need to join the Air Force and work on AC units or some shit.
Everyone here suggesting joining the military means you're going to combat is mistaken. When I was in a combat role, the number we always heard was 10% of people in the military are in combat ops jobs, and 10% of those people see actual combat. The military absolutely offers opportunities to learn a trade for folks who are in a tough spot, and you can make it work for you.
Everyone who says shits fucked now and the country is just billionaires, I'm totally on board. But if you're some poor kid from Mississippi, being an engine mechanic in the Army might be your best shot at a decent life, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone that.
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Raise a hand. Who wants to sign up as cannon fodder for the rich?
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Bonus; if you survive no one will help you!
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Thoughts and prayers.
brought to you by autocomplete (seriously)
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War Pigs starts playing in the distant background
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… And its 1, 2,3 what are we fighting for?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn,
The next stop is Vietnam,
And its 5, 6,7 open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
WHOOPEE we're all gonna die
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why in the fuck would any sane person sign up to die in a failed attempt to implement some shitty politician's whim half a world away? no one has fought for America in decades, they fight for the aristocrats.
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Centuries. Up to ww1 they're was an official policy of isolationism militarily, we only got into ww1 because Germany was pissed off we were selling everyone arms, WW2 happened because Germany was pissed off we were selling everyone arms.....
If we kept to ourselves we wouldn't likely have ever entered either war and the "moral war" excuse only cropped up after we were attacked in both wars.
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“moral war” excuse only cropped up after we were attacked
I think a lot of people would agree that the US had at least some moral authority to enter WWII after pearl harbor. Did it happen because we used diplomatic and economic policies in provocative ways that essentially amounted to taking a side? Yeah, but it also happened. The people who were killed really did die.
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That's because Democrats are brainwashing people to hate their country and has absolutely nothing to do with Republicans voting AGAINST any and all help for veterans, Republicans constantly stopping service member pay with government shutdowns, billionaires killing us so they can make an extra dollar, billionaires using us to do dangerous tasks for minimal pay or Republicans voting to dismantle the VA. It's OBVIOUSLY the Democrats fault!
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Huh. To me, it looks like an across-the board issue.
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Killing brown people so the oligarchy can exploit their natural resources is not fighting for your country.
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I don't think it is that (it should be).
Unemployment is at historic lows and real wages are starting to grow again.
There plenty of alternatives that don't involve risking your life.
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Vietnam
Iraq
Afghanistan
Is anyone surprised
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Korea, too.
And dozens of “minor” conflicts in South America and Africa over the years (for example, task force ranger and the battle of Mogadishu… as imortalozed in black hawk down,)
Yeah. Us military might as well be fighting for big corporations.
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Even now with two wars the US isn't even fighting in, their corporations are making billions. Israel and Saudi Arabia are a couple of their largest buyers.
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Korea was not as disheartening as the other 3 on that list. Gulf War would be the next example. In Korean War the US had a major victory, created a long term ally, and the soldiers were met with overwhelming positivity that continues to this day. (At least among the older generations... younger Americans are making an ass of themselves in Korea now and drawing more ire).
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When people go on and on about fighting for our freedom, I'm at a loss as to exactly what they're talking about.
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Fighting for our freedom to continue bombing the middle east.
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I'm not convinced a soldier has been sent to fight for my country at any point during my lifetime.
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Fighting for a shit government full of crappy politicians is already a weird choice.
Going in other countries to kill random innocent people for the profit of said government is an even weirder one.
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Millennials are killing the killing industry.
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I was in 7th Grade when the towers fell. That whole day nothing happened and we just watched the news. Once we had a day or two to digest it my Social Studies teacher talked to us about what it meant. She talked about how the Vietnam war lasted nearly 20 years and that was not triggered by an attack on US soil. She basically told me that everything was going to change and that we were going to be fighting someone forever.
I'm sure she wasn't quite that precient at the time and I am colouring my memories, but she really got it to stick that the world had changed overnight for us.
Long story short, we have been murdering brown kids in their homes my entire life. Even if more death and destruction is justified in response, we really went overboard. Why would people my age and younger have any fucking desire to support more of that?
PLUS we finally talk a little more about mental health in this country and it is clear that when you brainwash young people to be ok with murdering humans, and then have them do that while watching their friends get blown up, they fuck their brains up.
I was on track to go in to the military as a kid. I wanted to serve my country and get college paid for, but by the time I was 18 it no longer seemed like a fair trade. I'll go in to debt to the capitalists to start my life, seemed like a better deal than a pension and a lifetime of demons from my past to battle.
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Doesn't feel like my country cares about me, so why would I die for it?
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Where they ever fighting "for their country?"
How has the majority of people in the US benefited from the US-caused wars in Vietnam, Panama, Iraq or Afghanistan?
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Stonks go up /s
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Raytheon was the true blue chip stock all this time
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I mean why would someone want to fight for a country that doesn't care about them?
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Forced draft ruined the lives of my father and uncle. (Vietnam) My husband is permanently disabled from his time in the balkins and the VA fought us tooth and nail for every cent of his disablity pay. I would never, ever, ever join the miltary. All you get is a broken mind, body, and a shitty flag when you die.
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"Fight for their country"
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Ten thousand miles away
Of course not, what sane American would buy into that bullshit?
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As a veteran - at some point it starts to feel like it's all about oil and colonialism.
This is quite old now, but it still works.
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The myth is real LET'S EAT!
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You'll end up with PTSD, divorced and homeless, but think of all the brown people you'll get to kill in the name of our Lord and Savior, Walt Disney.
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The GOP abandoned Disney. Never thought I'd see that. Maybe we can get sane copyright reform now.
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Hmm, maybe it's because they're actually fighting for their country's billionaire's interests instead?
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I mean when we watch decades of wars that kill thousands of American's and MILLIONS of people in their own countries for no reason, maybe we need a little additional justification rather than "fight for your country". Nah! Probably just the fault of the "instant gratification" generations being selfish again.
We see more, and trust less now. Seems like a good first order explanation to me anyway.
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It wasn't for no reason, it was because the government lied about wmds in Iraq. They lied, and invaded two countries that didn't attack us.
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Do you remember when the US Army asked "how has serving impacted you?" on Twitter and the most common answers were PTSD, harassment, rape? Maybe that's why.
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They give us every reason not to, a country that doesnt care for its own is not worth fighting for.
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No shit. It's just defending the ruling class at this point.
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It'll only get worse as the disparity in wealth continues to grow.
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Why does nobody wanna die no more 😭
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Government sees this and thinks: time to make college more expensive and regulate more professions to require college.
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Won't anyone think of the profits!
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I've finally reached the age where I don't ruminate about being drafted anymore. I turned 18 shortly after 9/11 and registering for the SS was terrifying. Now I just have to worry about my two sons coming of age and being drafted into WW3. 😞
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I'd wager a good portion of Americans would rather literally go to war with other Americans than deploy to some foreign conflict.
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I'd rather kill the ruling class than some other working-class soldiers.
Wars would end overnight if soldiers killed their ruling class instead of each other.
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Americans don't want to fight for
their countrythe fossil fuel industry anymoreFtfy
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Terrible title. People are still patriotic and would fight for our country. They don’t want to join our military that is not currently fighting for our country to enter adulthood with worn out joints and PTSD.
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Any country that is a threat to American sovereignty has nukes. We don't use armies against those countries. Ergo, joining the army is not fighting for your countries freedom. So, asks recruits, what are we fighting for?
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They ever heard of "The boy who cried wolf"? You bullshit people enough times about defending the country and other noble causes and they going to stop believing you. It's been 80 years since the US fought a war that was even remotely plausible as defense.
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I'd sign up to fight Russia or China but otherwise the armed forces can suck a dick.
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Why?
If they invaded my city maybe.
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Hostile militaristic dictatorships with unchecked power will eventually be my problem or my children's problem or their children's problem, I would like to try to nip the problem in the bud. Of course, if the USA were to invade and conquer Russia right now it would create whole new problems of civil rights and complete lack of representation just like the Pacific Islands and Puerto Rico but at a massive scale, but that's in my opinion still better than the risk of allowing them to expand and grow in power to the point where nothing can be done to stop them.
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Same reason I would have signed up to fight nazis. Authoritarianism is always worth fighting.
Inb4 someone says "the us army is authoritarian," as if the inherent hierarchy in an army is in any way equivalent to the violations of civilian rights that actual authoritarian regimes commit
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Yeah I'm not trynna make the world worse
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Maybe aligning a large portion of the state budget to the perpetual growth of the arms industry may not have been such a good idea.
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Miss leading. People with still fight for their country in the US. Just not offensive wars.
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After I realized that I fell for the lies that pushed us into Iraq (the second time) I was determined to educate any kids I might eventually have about why they should never trust and never join the US military. I then proceeded to do that. To be clear, my issue has less to do with the military itself than the civilian leadership.
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I'm pretty sure we're gonna have to fight our own country pretty soon so it's not surprising a lot of people don't want to fight for it.
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Almost everyone I know that went into the military did it for the experience and to be able to go to college. That was when people believed a college degree would set you up for a stable future. Now that millennials know this isn't true and we're not lying to gen Z, they sure as shit don't believe it either.
The military should add to its incentives. If the military could for example, build you a modest home then I'm sure people would start joining again.
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I mean, in a roundabout sort of way, the military does do that. If you're active duty, you earn an okay salary (compared to other jobs whose entry requirement is a passing GED), but a significant portion of your paycheck is composed of nontaxable benefit payments. For example, BAH or Basic Allowance for Housing. As a junior NCO in a low cost of living state, I was getting nearly a thousand dollars a month specifically to offset housing costs. That afforded me the opportunity to rent a very nice apartment I would not have been able to afford on my salary alone. If I had chosen to rent a cheaper place, or cohabitate with someone, I would have been able to pocket the difference. I also received something like $400 ish for food in the form of the Basic Allowance for Subsistence stipend. Not to mention free healthcare through Tricare. Additionally, most veterans qualify for the VA Home Loan program, in which the government guarantees a portion of your mortgage, which can mean better rates from lenders vs a civilian.
So, while the military isn't necessarily out here building homes for folks (that being said, I've stayed in on base housing before, and most places certainly qualify as modest single family homes), they do provide tools that vets can use to make that a reality.
Does the incentives balance out against the cons of military service? For me, they did. For others, maybe not.
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Thanks, yeah I think in service benefits are great but life after the military is always the pain point. The military sometimes has crazy signing bonuses and you get the GI bill as well, I think if the military appealed to people's life after service more then more people would sign up. Maybe do that in place of the GI bill. Homes are crazy right now because there aren't enough homes, not so much because they're expensive to build.
Unless you go with an MOS that you'd like to do after the military, a lot of the time the skills you learn don't really transfer to civilian life. Young adults don't usually know what they'd find rewarding and the recruiters can often trick you into some job you didn't want. I wouldn't recommend it to most people.
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Best news I've seen today.
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FTFY country -> rich resource extraction corps
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Fight who? Our biggest threat climate change caused by multinational corporations. Often the same ones that our soldiers are deployed for.
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cough bull shit cough
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Seems a bit hyperbolic considering the numbers.
In 2023, the Army and Air Force fell short of their respective goals by around 10,000 recruits, while the Navy was under by 6,000.
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That's expected to be per year though, ain't it? Which means the air force will be about 40,000 underneath it's wanted amount? 40,000 seems like a large percentage of the ~330,000 reported as their ranks in 2021. The navy has a hair more personnel, I believe, around 350k? So 24,000 below that, not quite 10%. Those numbers probably aren't telling the full story, either. If the overall quality of the enlisted suffers, oof. Maybe those 10,000 that aren't coming in now were the smarter ones.
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Hello robot soilders.
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130 comments
Two things not mentioned it that article:
How's training and cleaning up mold supposed to line the pockets of the senator's buddy who owns the uniform company?
@kvasir476 @throwslemy Suggested edit: After "In the last quarter-century" insert "I've finally noticed".
Butler saw the scam first-hand, 100 years ago. Every generation seems it must relearn the lessons of our grandparents.
As for young people not enlisting for wars of convenience - exactly. That's partially why a draft was around, and why it was so unpopular. And why the money each service pays for college benefits goes way up when there's a shooting war and goes down in peacetime.
My time in the Navy overlapped with the VEAP program, which would give me a 2-to-1 match for college - up to the maximum contribution of $2700. What a joke.
Compare that to the current GI Bill plus extra money each service pays directly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmedleyButler
\3. Pay hasn't kept up with civilian work.
\4. They stopped offering student loan repayment as a benefit.
What really? That was the biggest reason anyone joined when I was in. Wow. So the headline should be "Military reduces benefits of service, less people willing to serve"