Dude read the rules of woman only community and decided to post anyway

Incel behavior includes using "female" as a noun when talking about women. Using "female" as an adjective is perfectly normal and common. It is fine to write "female coworker" instead of "coworker who is a woman."

Some people are hypersensitive to wrongspeak.

I don't think people are bothered by "female coworker", which is perfectly normal. It's the reference to a "female-only" community, when the actual com is called WomensStuff and describes itself as "women only" and "a women's community".
- Maybe it's just me, but in female-only community, I'm using female as part of a composed adjective. I'd say male-only community too, it just feels more natural. In fact, in an earlier comment I wrote women only, and then writing man only felt SO bad that I changed both to female and male.
  Now that I think about it it's probably because I used man instead of men. I'll change both back but OOP miiight have followed my logic? Idk
- Ok. I somehow missed that. I scanned for other uses of "female" a few times but was blinded to the one right next to coworker.
- Not every female is a woman. Some of them are ladies or girls.

Segregated anything is fucking dumb. Segregated internet communities are especially fucking dumb because anyone can be anyone on the internet.

Congratulations, you're the man they're trying to forget exists for 10 fucking minutes a day in their off time!
- Who said I was a guy? Again, anyone can be anyone on the internet.
A segregated internet would be more like if they had a whole version of Lemmy for all topics but only for women, and then didn't also participate in the other one.
This is just one community calm the hell down they can have their space.
- If they want their own space, they are just bigots. That's what they called me when I excluded them from the general space in the past!
  -the people arguing against that comm, probably
- You've angered the incels.
Also I wonder how it would look if we made a Men's Club community where only men were allowed and women were openly mob-scolded for participating. Would probably be considered a pretty sexist environment.
- Literally nothing is stopping you from creating a community for men with a rule that only men participate. The difference is that in the community you're thinking about though, women wouldn't be constantly trying to mess with it. There are hundreds of communities to choose from. We're not entitled to participate in them all.
- The mens club you're talking about DOES exist though. Since men are not a marginalized minority, that club is just called society.
  Your logic mirrors asking, ‘Why not create a whites-only club?’ Technically, you could, but people would rightly view it negatively because white people, as a group, are not marginalized. Exclusive spaces for minorities exist to provide relief from the discrimination or bias they routinely encounter. For groups that do not face those barriers, everyday society already functions as their ‘exclusive space,’ which makes it difficult for non-minorities to understand why others might need a separate environment.
- /c/dull_mens_club@lemmy.world
- It exists. Or did. Menslib over on that other platform.
- Hey, go for it! If c/mensliberation became men-only, I'd support them! There are some communities where women wouldn't have anything to contribute, and that's okay and wouldn't be sexist.
  But just don't go full kiwifarms with a men-only community and I'd say that's fine.
- I know I’m sending mixed signals, but those things are not equivalent. All of modern society is patriarchal and women face exclusion from spaces their entire lives because of their sex or gender. Things have improved slightly over the decades but this kind of misogyny is still a global pandemic. When men are called privileged this is why. That ignorance is a privilege. Lucky you, that you haven’t experienced this constantly for your entire life. Want to create a “Men’s Club” community? We’ve all been living in it our entire lives. Nothing new to see there.
  I still feel dirty thinking about the womensstuff community, though. The first time I stumbled in there I had no idea where I was and someone said “As a man…” and then asked a question, and they were told to be quiet. Women experience that constantly, and it’s worse for girls. So much worse. Especially if you are the chatty type of autistic that I am. Having experienced it, I would never subject others to that. I felt that interaction viscerally and immediately blocked the community. I understand wanting to have a safe space, and I do have those with certain private groups, but seeing that behavior was awful. Even queer spaces are welcoming to allies, and I feel inclusion of allies in all social matters is critical for progress to happen.
That's really ignoring a mountain of history. Up until a decade ago, "there are no girls on the internet" was a common saying.
I just see it as a way to foster and encourage an under represented segment of the community. It feels completely valid when that segment is still often met with hostility from weirdos.
- Was it a common saying or were you just on 4chan too much?
Bingpot.
- It’s entirely about self identification. There’s no gender policing, they just kindly ask people who start their comments with phrases like “as a man…” or “not a woman, but…” to refrain from further commenting. They don’t even delete the comments unless the guy keeps going. Even still, inevitably if the post reaches the front page all the women in the comments will be drowned out by highly upvoted “as a man…” commenters. They just want to have a conversation without being shouted over.

I enjoy that community as a non-participant. A user's decision to merely interact can reveal much more than they intended to reveal - super interesting to me. Just the existence of the community pits dudes with insecurities against their own lack of self control or social tact, for all to see.

Future me might comment there too quickly after overlooking the community name. I'll get a warranted Tsk and I'll see myself out. No big deal. It's not a kick in the nuts unless I make it one.

I have seen men comment there, get the reminder, and then FLIP THE FUCK OUT. As if every part of the internet should have to put up with them.
A community like that is hard to monitor, and they are pretty chill about people making honest mistakes like coming in from /all. I feel like it’s obvious (or very quickly becomes obvious) which comments are mistakes, and which are butthurt males. They don’t seem to be hostile to the honest mistakes.
- Whenever I see that happen, I think "wow, thanks for showing why this community needs that rule in the first place". If dudes were more chill about women trying to build their own spaces, then perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to have such a hard rule.

That's community's mods are super nice. Probably too nice TBH.

...But yeah. Follow community rules, or post elsewhere. What is so hard about that?

I think it's hard simply because browsing by /all, or even by communities you follow and then just in your main thread, is not set up to highlight the community or it's rules. If something hits the front page of /all I'm rarely digging into the communities specific rules or even where it's coming from to an extent. Only to say, it's a learned behavior to care about the communities specifically in this site aggregator system.
All of that being said, people of course should respect community rules and learn the behavior of identifying what room they're in before engaging with that community. I'm just not surprised when these flimsy barriers fail.
Is the best behavior to block any community you don't or can't participate in? I personally don't love that behavior because I like seeing what everyone is discussing in threads, but that's a reasonable solution. Obviously my current strat is just reading the community before posting (like not commenting negatively about Star Gate getting a new season in the star gate community as an example that happened today lol).
- Wandering in, missing the rule sign, getting corrected, and apologizing is fine. I've done it; the mods there couldn't have been nicer about it. It's not an ideal system, no, but it works well enough; it's the mods shouldering that burden more than anything.
  ...The problem is when the guys are corrected, yet keep talking anyway. Which I see happen a lot.
  There is no excuse for that.
  Is the best behavior to block any community you don’t or can’t participate in? I personally don’t love that behavior because I like seeing what everyone is discussing in threads, but that’s a reasonable solution.
  I feel extremely mixed about this, yeah. I feel weird even talking about it.
  I personally don’t love that behavior because I like seeing what everyone is discussing in threads, but that’s a reasonable solution.
  The women's space... doesn't prohibit lurking? On one hand, the community is public, and I'm curious about the perspective in the discussions. I'm interested in understanding them so I can be a more respectful person myself.
  I upvote their posts so they get more exposure.
  ...But I don't want to violate their privacy either. Blocking is reasonable. Right now, I just upvote them but don't enter the threads.
  Obviously my current strat is just reading the community before posting (like not commenting negatively about Star Gate getting a new season in the star gate community as an example that happened today lol).
  Read the room, yeah.
  IMO TV fandoms shouldn't worship their material. Negative discussion is allowed, otherwise the space gets toxic.
  In fact, this kinda happened to one of my personal fandom spaces, /r/thelastairbender: among other things, they idolize ATLA (the original series) like a diety, to the point where anything different (including other material like Korra or the Netflix adaption) is demonized. Deeper stuff like the novels, fanfics or speculative lore is not welcome either.
  That sucks. It's all too common; the Star Wars fandom (for instance) is notorious for it. And its why some negativity and 'outsider perspectives' should be welcomed in such spaces.
  The women's space is different though. It's basically a shelter from the shit this group puts up with IRL and online, so being more sensitive makes sense.

Nobody posted it!?

I agree that the guy in the post is mildlyinfuriating at best, and much more likely a douche (never hear a woman use male as a noun like that, a very particular shibboleth). But I'm not sure I love. This community becoming half posts picking on specific users. Should we blur the usernames? Otherwise its an easy path to brigading and bullying.

Ya I don’t think folks need to be called out twice in a row in two different places. This would be a pathway for repeat offenders who refuse to acknowledge feedback perhaps?
Absolutely. In fact, I would extend that past the user, to the community as well. This is a gate-kept (correct spelling?) community; that's fine and I don't think the rest of lemmy should care, but I somehow regularly come across discussions about the community or related, with many people in the comments frustrated. That frustration is natural and isn't going to go away anytime soon. I don't care about said community, but it's annoying to keep coming across posts like this.
These posts are clearly just causing argument over a fairly small, specific community that most people aren't, I presume, involved in. I wish we could just leave it alone; it's gate-kept, let's honor that and also not talk about the community outside of said community (exception: meta-communities dedicated to stuff like that).
I'd be annoyed if people couldn't stop talking about e.g. the Linux community outside of the Linux community as well, with tuns of the comments angry about the Linux community because they don't use Linux and are offended that the community doesn't welcome them talking about windows or complaining about Linux. Obviously the community is intended for Linux users and while it's not actively gate-kept, windows users (not looking to transition) aren't exactly welcome. Funny parallel there.
If I weren't a Linux user, and had blocked that community, I would be very annoyed at regularly seeing meta-commentary about the community I don't care about and can't contribute too. This isn't a perfect analogy, but you get the gist of it.
It just seems to draw purposeless attention and outrage to something people could otherwise probably ignore. That being said, this is all pretty minor; I would have ignored this post as well, if it weren't for the below. Clearly a number of people didn't ignore it though.
I don't know, I'm just lying on my sofa with a cold, and yelling at the sky...
Edit: Jesus Christ how did that get so long. I need to get healthy and get a life again. Being sick sucks.

Oh good. I don't follow this com, another comment tipped me off.

While I do enjoy a little bit of chaos and schadenfreude, it would be nice to block out user names. Call out the mistake, not the person.

Most people here are lovely, but it only takes one match to start a fire. Might as well address some bullshit in these comments since I'm gonna get trolled by incels anyway...

side note: I'm not a mod there.

The women's com is trans and non-binary inclusive. Anyone who feels at home there (and is respectful) is welcome.
It's not all bitching about men. Looking at the last twenty posts, one was about men and two were related to men. We talk about pads and health and essays and positivity memes and do fun activities on fridays.
I support men making their own support groups. Although the internet itself often feels like a menfolk support group(to me,) I'm sure there are plenty of things an easy to find, curated space, could offer men who want to be just a little more vulnerable, knowing they would be supported by the mods if any toxic women came in to devalue their opinions and experience.

I saw that post too. I noticed it was a woman-only space and muted it. Godspeed to them, people deserve to have communities like that.

Same. I have a bad habit of shitposting into a comment section only to later see which community it was in. So I preemptively blocked them. The only community I did so, not to protect myself, but others.

I saw this play out and there were more than one of these users breaking the rules on that sub. I guess it’s tempting to want to comment on a first page thread, but boundaries exist for a reason. I don’t really see women going into incel spaces, making incels uncomfortable. Still, what it looked like was most of these men knew this wasn’t a community for them, but figured that their comments were so invaluable, how could it exist without their imput. It’s pathetic.

i usually browse by all and have sometimes accidentally have commented on the women’s stuff comm. The first time I did it they left my comment up (I didn’t know it was exclusively a women’s comm I thought it was a focus on women) but gave me a friendly reminder that it is womens stuff. Anyways I’ve also almsot commented in that comm a few times and only noticed it after reading comments
ANYWAYS that was longer than I anticipated but all I can excuse is accidentally commenting, the actual behavior is not especially since they said it they knew it was a women only community. IMO that’s not ok since I’m sure of what OOP was doing was allowed or “as a man…” was allowed, 90% of the comm would be men effectively destroying the women only space
- I can understand a mistake, and like I read on the original thread and on here; the mods are really nice. It just really shouldn’t happen more than once imo. I also feel bad for the mods literally trying to keep a space designated for woman safe. When I first saw the group, and the rules- It was confusing but I think it’s understandable. There’s not 100 of these spaces, and the rules should be understandable for anyone who thought of participating.
Exactly, dude is just proving them right that all men are self-important assholes. It's like a woman going on /r/redpill and telling them they're just angry, ugly geeks. Not helping. That being said I can't help but think trying to create a safe space on a public space is never going to really work. I'd see more something like a private matrix space, or even properly authenticated IRC (that's where I have my safe space about my addiction).
- I can agree with that, but I think for privacy you lose some inclusivity. I understand you want to feel comfortable when talking about sensitive topics. On the other hand, is being a woman really such a sensitive topic that we shouldn’t be able to have a space that’s respected? It’s depressing that it’s not just intrinsically understood that these spaces are important, deserve to be public and proud, and really should be more prolific- but here we are.

I blocked this community a while ago so I don’t accidentally view/comment on it

- Idk a men only community would probably be just trains, shoes, tanks, water heaters, and energy drinks, and I think I'd like it

I find it interesting how men regularly insert themselves into places or communities that are not designed for their specific label. I want to wonder what it is about women specifically that really makes men so uncomfortable about women having a place to discuss the world amongst themselves. But it doesn't take long to see a common trend that appears which is a man is attempting to push their dominance over a situation.

Often times a comment begins with "As a man..." and it's obvious the commenter is positioning themselves as an "authoritative" voice. Placing themselves higher than the women in a woman's community. As if their words, experiences or perspectives hold more weight then the other people in this community not designed for men.

I often see this behaviour also within men's communities such as Men's Liberation. It confuses me greatly to see "As a man..." comments in the Men's Liberation community because why do you need to declare your man status, in a men's community, talking about men's issues?? It seems to me it's about placing their own thoughts, experiences and perspectives over the other, "lesser" men in the community. Often those comments ignore the message of the article or video while adding absolutely nothing additional to the conversation. They just stated they are men. That's it.

The same men that argue against a segregated internet would not hesitate to join a men's only community in real life or not. It's not even a conscious effort for them to join a men's only community. So when a community appears that doesn't include them, I imagine it must feel insulting to be excluded this one time.

There's over 8 billion people on this planet with over 8 billion different experiences, not everyone is going to relate to everything all the time. An individual's experience is not universal. An individual's experience does not give them authority over another groups experiences. Spending a life trying to dominate everything around yourself is an impossible task because there will always be people who will defy your authority. Nature in general doesn't have a single fuck to give about one person's dominance.

Good on the women who persist to exist in men dominant spaces. It's a steep uphill battle. It's an exhausting battle that seems never ending. I recently read how some of these women only communities operate behind the scenes and how they deal with certain issues. It showed how much effort they put into their community. I have an even greater appreciation for their existence now and I hope they continue to exist and grow.

As a man.... just stating that it has nothing to do with the rest of my comment, but when I see those communities I just filter and move on. I do the same for all the gross *Moe communities with cartoon children dressed inappropriately.

Just FYI, those are almost all on the same instance, and you can block that instance as a whole. It's dedicated to anime, so there's not a ton of collateral damage.
- If you block the instance then you block legit communities too though
Reading this as a self hoster: god damn it, is there ANOTHER fucking instance I need to defederate?

I forgot that community existed. Segregation gives me the ick to such an extent I blocked it. I think it’s the only non-german-language community I’ve blocked.

A publicly visible forum isn’t a safe space. I can go to a discord channel for that. I would never think to tell someone to shut up because of physical characteristics. That’s precisely how social poisons like transphobia propagate. Could Elliot Page post there? What about Hunter Schafer? What about enbys? Jack Haven? Do we demand genital inspections like MAGA gestapo? Would you exclude my partner for failing to pass some feminine-enough test?

Segregation of public and publicly visible places is fundamentally and ethically wrong. I will help build the louisettes to dismantle the patriarchy, but I won’t exclude people even their “type” has traditionally held a position of privilege. It’s not right and it makes us the baddies the misogynistic claim we are.

My point is, I don’t like anything about this. ESH. I don’t support or endorse any of this, from the community to the alleged interlopers. It’s all wrong.

- Thank you, I didn’t realize that. My only experience was stumbling into a post some time ago and seeing someone asking a question being told to shut up because they started the question with “As a man…”. Seeing that was genuinely triggering for me.
  While knowing it’s trans inclusive does make me feel better, this still reminds me of the ally debate we had in the queer community 20-30 years ago. Queer spaces should be welcoming to allies but allies must be aware that there are certain expectations for them. There is still zero tolerance for anyone that steps out of line. I think that has worked very well and won us a lot of progress and unity and support and love and acceptance, which is what I want.
  I’m always torn about these things. I love the idea of having women-centric spaces where we can be ourselves without masking. I want that. But I can’t resolve the ethics of excluding allies, and so it’s not something I can personally justify being involved with. I don’t want people to be treated like that or excluded because of their sex or gender. I’ve lived through that and it’s awful.
If only they had it explicitly laid out who is allowed to comment.
...oh wait, they do. So your "transphobia" strawman is entirely baseless.
We are fully allowed to read it, just don't post. Reading it is very insightful.
- What community is that?

suggestion: make a separate community that is "replies to womens stuff".

actually don't, sounds like a cesspool.

Much like the original.
- Show us one of these "cesspool" threads, I've seen nothing but kindness there.

X only communities shouldn't be publicly viewable.

If they're not publicly viewable, how do you expect people to know to look for them? How many communities / subreddits have you become a part of because you saw a post from it crop up on your feed?
- Reddit or Lemmy isn't a great to lace for private communities. If you want to be restrictive of who can participate go to a service that supports it like discord. If you want people to join your X only thing that is a you problem, it's not on everyone else to help you with it.
- Right, women can only exist in exclusive environments.

Eh, I only ever see that community when a bait post makes it to the front page.

Honestly, I just assumed it was a really elaborate troll group and didn't bother engaging.

It is not 'an elaborate troll group'. Women just want our own spaces on a male-dominated platform and to discuss without 10000 incels crawling out of the woodwork.
- Fair play to you - it just comes off that way.
  Each post that hits my feed makes me think "wow, sexism is alive and well". Glad to hear it isn't just all rage bait.
Honestly forgot about it, I just blocked it and haven't seen it talked about in a while.

I got banned from that sub for "sounding like a man" then when I told them I'm non binary and so should be able to post their according to their rules they didn't respond

That sucks and I'm sorry. Did you dm the head mod? She's said her dms are finicky so @ing her would probably get a response.
They're not supposed to ban by default as far as I know, could have been an overzealous mod or a mistake. I get the same thing online, so I find it fucking infuriating to gender personality traits and tone. As an active poster on that sub I don't want to see things go that way.

When I first started here I had a relevant point for a women's only community on the front. I asked if my opinion was welcome, told it was not (but fairly respectfully), and the only comment I left was an apology.

Like it's not hard to be respectful, even if you hold a slightly different opinion. I don't go to any of the "on grad" posts and let my opinions about Stalin fly(which are largely negative despite me agreeing with a lot of the tenants of communism).

The only exception I make about being respectful is anyone bragging about not voting last election in the US. You all suck and I will not let you live it down peacefully. Ffs vote third party! But don't brag about being a lazy POS and standing by while fascism takes over!

Ffs vote third party! But don’t brag about being a lazy POS and standing by while fascism takes over!
And what if your political party choice is 'no parties'? Everyone else can vote 3rd party to appease their choice, except for those who don't believe in statism?
You'll be tolerant to fascists, yet hurl disrespect to anarchists? How alarming.
- You out here actively supporting by being hazy and pretending your farts smell better.
- Well even if you believe political parties shouldn't exist, you should still participate in your democracy. It's not like the system goes away if you refuse to participate, so you might as well work within it

I feel like accidentally commenting there is a Lemmy right of passage. It got me, and continues to almost get me. They generally have good discussion.

It managed to elude me, because the 1st post from this community I read had mod comment pinned. I was like "huh", checked, thought "neat" and moved on.
- What's QST?
Yeah I messed up with that a couple times. I do read their comments though, it's nice to get the female perspective on things.

Yeah, that definitely is annoying to have a man invade a space specifically for women, speaking as a man. You certainly ain't doing any favors by going onto a woman's space to reply to their posts if you're a man.

"fancying the male im talking to" yeah suree.that was definitely a covo with a real person

Ironic given the community you’re posting to, and its own rules. But 🤷‍♂️.

Which rules do you mean?

That community hits "front page" quite often. It's easy to miss the community name (and rules) unless you pay attention.

It would be nice if there was a brother community that had the same topic, and a default text in all posts explaining this and redirecting the men to that.

That would be an understandable mistake if the poster hadnt literally quoted the rule they were breaking.
- Yes sure. I am speaking in general. Half the time I read that community, I only realize where I am when I see the mods calling other people out in the comments. It happens in every single thread, which is why I think they ought to make it more visible in every single post. It's a great community and I do read it occasionally, so I don't want to block it, just because I'm not allowed to comment myself.
I don't hate the idea in principle. Actually on principle I think it would be really cool. But, MAN do I think that will not go the way I think we'd all like it to.
You'd have to really police the place for shithead incels. And soft core porn.
- On Reddit I'd agree, but I'm slightly more optimistic about how it would play out here
...Now that's an idea.

I honestly don’t know what you’re offended by. Maybe I wasn’t reading closely enough, but could you spell it out for me?

He read the rules of the community and decided to break them anyway.
- Right, the infuriating part is the man ignoring the rules despite clearly being aware of them
- Why is bringing a comment from a woman in his life so bad? It might be a gray area but it's still from a woman which is what the point was.
  I'm not arguing against the rule since I just blocked the community if I can't interact with it anyway, but it feels like that should be an interesting gray area discussion thing, though that's also just ignoring the femcels responding to him calling him a liar lol
Maybe I believe in community rules too strictly.
If the rules say women only, it means women only.
- Ah, I was thinking it might just be that, but didn’t want to assume. Yeah, I don’t think it’s that big a deal. If the commenter came in and said some misogynistic shit, definitely, but just for commenting? Eh. Yeah, he shouldn’t have, but how much harm was actually done?
- Yeah, men should go to the back of that bus right?
He said female. That's apparently the new n word
- A female woman? In this economy?
  To me it's a sign that someone is not really used to communicating with people irl or that they are trans-exlusionary. Both are a red flag...
- Please just go back to reddit

Ferengis are known outside of the Star Trek fan base. A well travelled species.

Turns out, a community exclusive to some gender almost inevitably turns into a hate pool, exactly because the most common scenario in which they are needed is "let's shit on someone and not let them defend themselves".

Naturally, those excluded find a way to get into the conversation to stand up for themselves. When men come together to spread hateful takes on women, this naturally puts women in a position to defend, respond, and possibly retaliate. The same works the other way around.

And honestly - it's how it should be. Those spreading hate and silencing all other voices should not be given platform for it. Let's remain constructive and keep the conversation going. Division and hate hurts and ends up gross for everyone.

Really not the point of this community, the mod doesn't care so I guess why should I. Leaving.

Hence "mildly"
- Mildly witch hunting?

I thought the plural of Ferengi was Ferengi.

Ferengii, but the second i is silent.

You can tell this guy posted himself wearing a “This is what a feminist looks like” t-shirt on linkedin.

I pray and hope that it's not a feminist community, but I would bet my ass that most of the women in that community ironically consider themselves feminists.

- Did I say it wasn't? That screenshot shows the opposite of feminism. That's why I said ironically most of them probably consider themselves feminists.
  Women fighting for "equality" and condemning places that exclude women, create a community that excludes men. Those are misandrists pretending to be feminists and they are giving feminism a bad name.

one of the few communities I have blocked one of the things I value is being able to chip in

So you blocked it? Lol seems strange

A person whose username appears in this post has asked me to blur their user name, this is not some that is possible for me to do. Only the OP has the ability to make edits to their post. I am going to remove it for now as this is the only way I can affect the post. If OP wants to blur the user names I'll restore the post. Thanks for understanding.

Edit: post has had user name obscured so I am restoring it. Thanks guys!

People want to be a part of everything nowadays. I just want to escape to an island sorrounded by AI instead of these people.

Now for a thought exercise.

How many of those men that commented and kept commenting after being corrected were just LLMs?

Would it be actual zero? Or would there be at least one?