me_irl

I have a sick (but not dying) sister with 3 kids. As far as work are concerned, I visit every fortnight to help out and rush up to see them every time there's an emergency or they need childcare.
I haven't seen the sister in four years and only see my nephews twice a year when they visit Grandma but work don't need to know that
just lie and tell them you have a kid
double down, even, and tell them the kid has a debilitating chronic disease that you regularly need to take time off work to bring to appointments and provide support for.
now you have even more free time
- I've heard that if you let the government know about your child, they even give you free money!
Do you not have a contract on how many hours you sell to your job each week?
- Americans outside of trades: "Contract"? What's that? Is that like when my employer makes me sign papers saying I can't sue them if I get hospitalized because of their negligence?
Protip: you don't owe your employer an explanation for turning down overtime, for refusing to do unpaid work, for refusing to pick up extra shifts, or for not being able to participate in heroics or death marches.
- True, they also don't owe you an explanation when they fire you.
This is so god damn true. I say that as someone in my mid thirties.

Look at this guy, with his penis, assuming everyone has a penis as well. /s
Conservatives in the US are working very hard at forcing women to have children, especially when they can't afford them.
- "Oh, you're so young, you'll change your mind in the future." -Doctors when women insist they want tubal ligation
Children are an STD.
source: I was an STD.
- STDs are treatable. Did your parents treat you well?
Very much not true in many places of the world. Vasectomies can be very hard to get.
A vasectomy was the best present I bought myself.
There's also vasagel which will hopefully be available before long.
- Been hearing about that for literally a decade at this point. I check in on it every once in a while, but it never seems to make much progress

Meh, it gets a bit unsettling and empty when you get into your 40s. At least it did for me. We had a kid (much) later in life and I'm glad we did. We had our DINK fun in our 30s, and I still long for those days sometimes. But having a kid is like filling a hole you didn't realize you had. And there are moments of joy and bonding that are simply indescribable.

Anyway, to each their own.

to each their own
This is kinda my message to OP et al. You do you, you don't have to try to shame people who choose something else.
Admittedly, there's a "having kids" version of CompHet, like, people sometimes have kids because they feel like they have to, like they're supposed to, not because they want to, and that's dumb. But those people aren't addressed by the message of the OP, nor are they provided insight into the reality of OP's wisdom: you don't have to if you don't want to.
And some parents are fucking annoying. They think they're more important than everyone else (even their own kids) because they chose to take on more responsibility. No DINK should ever have to give up their spot in line, or work longer hours, because of your smug self-righteousness. But -- again -- these people aren't addressed by OP. (And, importantly, not all parents are like that.)
I have kids and I love having kids. I have no qualms with anyone who doesn't have kids. I sometimes have qualms with people who do have kids. Fight the real enemy.
We're in our 40's. Wanted kids but couldn't have them. It was hard, and sometimes still is, but we're the cool aunt/uncle and we're making the best of the extra freedom and money we have.
- Not trying to poke a bruise, but depending on how important it is to you, where you live, and your financial situation, you likely still have options. At least in the US there are states that require insurance to cover IVF treatments.
  I'm close with two couples who live in one of those states and took advantage of that recently.
  One in their late 30s, IVF worked (~2 year process for them) and they're out ~$3k all said and done.
  With the second couple, the wife was 44 when they started working with a fertility clinic, husband in his mid 30s. Unfortunately they were unable to produce any viable embryos from the wife's eggs, and the couple couldn't emotionally handle another egg retrieval attempt.
  They still have a kid though, born when the wofe was 45. Egg donors exist just like sperm donors. So they were able to use the IVF process with donor eggs and the husband's sperm to get an embryo, and have that implanted. The wife was able to carry their child in her womb and be pregnant.
  Egg donors are expensive, they say it was ~$30k. But they do have a few more viable embryos from that on ice, so they have the potential for multiple children out of it.
  The clinic the second couple used also apparently had a successful IVF pregnancy with a 50 year old.
  I know four couples that just needed some medication (I think it's just hormone pills and shots). There's also a similar amount I know who went the adoption route.
  I'm most familiar with the second IVF couple's journey, as they tend to be open people, they more often needed someone to just listen, and one of them is related to me. Their approach struck a chord with my wife and I, and effected our own discussions on having children: "Once you've decided to have a kid, if that is the most important part of it to you, sometimes you just need to just work your way down your options to find out how they'll get here".
  If you're comfortable in your decision, if you truly know that options aren't available for you through talks with a doctor, if you tried and found that it was just too much emotionally... I mean no shade or judgement. I just know a surprising amount of people who have had fertility issues, and people don't tend to talk about it, so there's a good chunk of people out there simply unaware of the chances they might have.
  Apologies for the ramble. This is very near and dear to me, just hope it helps someone.
it gets a bit unsettling and empty when you get into your 40s.
that's a mid life crisis. I'm glad having a kid helped you through it. Also a better option than running away with a hooker, maybe.
Any siblings? Let them have kids and help out. I've got a niece and nephew and I love them to bits, but I'm still glad they are not mine. Anyways, being an uncle/aunt? Can recommend!

Super eco friendly and anti-consumerism too.

probably the only way you can reduce your "cArBoN FoOtPriNt" in any meaningful way :P
- I mean, there is that bit of French tech they invented at about the same time wealth got redistributed ...

It’s a wonderful life, not having children. Well, a less shitty one, anyway.

Life with a kid has been anything but shitty but ymmv
- Maybe take your kid to the doctor if no shit has been involved so far.

As I write this, a neighbor's child is bawling publicly outside my home.

Yeah, all parents seem to want to tell us how their life was meaningless before they had kids, but I'm good.

I've seen some of the most insanely inappropriate behavior from kids. Yes the fault is mainly the parents but the other day a child literally tried to take my milkshake because they could. It was awkward and if I'd been a couple steps further away I think the kid would've grabbed it out of the worker's hand. The parent said nothing, probably because they spend all day every day saying no and it's exhausting.

Is this supposed to be an argument against having children? Yes, kids sometimes misbehave. They're tiny humans, believe it or not, and sometimes what they want and feel don't align well with the world around them. It's the parents job to teach them how to behave around other people, and some parents are fuckups and do not do that job well. But when parents do their job well, that is how amazing adults are made, you see. Even if the outcome can't be guaranteed in any way.
If you don't want to have children, that's fine. I don't particularly think you should either. But "a kid tried to steal my milkshake" is just a laughable argument.
- "Kids misbehave constantly" is a pretty great reason to not want them especially when combined with like 10 more good reasons which I don't need to list really. Do you really think that I made the decision based on a fuckin' milkshake?? I'm sorry my example failed the test of "could a parent needlessly justifying their choices reject this".
  If you don’t want to have children, that’s fine. I don’t particularly think you should either.
  Okay then why take this personally? I think it's fair to take it personally that everywhere you look in society people are having kids and subtly shaming those who don't. I see that allll the time (this thread included).
  You're in the majority by a lot. You don't need to get mad at a dissenting opinion just because it doesn't sound (to you) based on the right example/logic/whatever.

I wouldn't attempt to persuade anybody to have children, but being a dad has been the best thing in my life bar none. I was that rare custodial single dad to a daughter and certain years of financial struggle aside, I wouldn't trade the experience for all the wealth on the planet.

She's grown now. Today it's a friendship/mentor/advisor relationship in which we play the mentor/advisor role with each other. I give her guidance, and she does the same for me.

She has no plans to have children because she sees bringing a child into this shit stain of a timeline as a moral failure, and I'm fine with that.

She says she may adopt someday, and as the son of a mother who suffered the American foster care system, I can't see that pursuit as anything other than noble.

But really. If you're happy not having kids, I support that. I truly do.

I'll conclude with this - she made me a better person, and for that, I'll be eternally grateful.

[wipingTearsWithWadsOfMoney.gif]

Ah a former Redditor

There's dozens of us 🎉
- Especially since July 2023

That’s what everybody says… lol.
The friends I invite more often actually supervise their kids instead of letting them make a mess. Parents everywhere, if people never invite you and your kids, take a clue.
The only reason you like your kids is the parenting hormones
- Instinct not hormones, hormones areentirely different than instincts though linked. Instincts are BIOS while hormones are background processes.
I raised my ex's kid for a decade and parents groups are the WORST

I have friends who didn't have kids and all of them either end up "adopting" friends who were young and needed a mentor or doing something more meaningful with their lives. One became a professor and is a mentor for kids and the other one became a local radio host that helps people through their emotions.

I honestly didn't know what I was missing until I had my son. To each their own.

And that's really the point, you don't add meaning to your life because you have a kid. You add meaning to your life by helping others. Some people do that with their kids while my husband and I choose to do that with friends and family. I'm happy with being child free and I'm happy for those people who find meaning in raising their kids. It's not an either/or situation.
- I will preface by saying that having kids is hard, and today more than ever, it is not necessary to have kids.
  But mentoring and bonding with someone else's kid is not the same thing as having your own kid, by a mile. I've done both, and having your own kid is a unique feeling.
  The nice thing though is that if you don't have kids, you don't know what it's like. So you don't miss anything because you've never had that feeling.
  So when you hear people like me that it's the best feeling in the world, you don't have that experience. So for you, it's not true.
- I needed to read this, thank you!! Been healing from some related fallout with my birth family, and figuring out what that means for me and my life going forward. I now recognize the damage one can potentially do by finding their life's meaning through their kids. Not only does it make the child emotionally responsible for the parent, it also leads to inevitable blowout when expectations aren't met.
  I have no desire to repeat that damage and can't conceive anyway so kids no longer factor into my life. It's opened a number of other wonderful and fulfilling opportunities, but the FOMO and fear of isolation when I get older definitely gets to me sometimes. I'm the youngest person I know by a lot... gonna need to fix that in the next 40 years or so or life's going to get real depressing. I want to, in some small way, help build the world that comes after me, and rescinding parenthood means figuring out what the hell that even means now, and that's terrifying. Maybe I'll teach someday, or something.
- That's so well said. I think a lot of people don't even realize how much we need other people to be happy with ourselves, by ourselves. We need connection and some voluntary dependence to be able to see and understand ourselves. Having a kid is one way but it is not the only way to realize this or to achieve this. It is probably the most straightforward one that just "happens" to a lot of people passively. To find meaning in helping other people that are not your family one has to actively seek this out. And maybe there is even something about having to actively seek this versus having this happen to you.

I'm in a DINK couple (just to be clear) and one thing people often don't speak about is the negative aspect of that choice when we get older. You might do whatever you want while you're young, odds are that if you need care when you're old, your only source of help will be professional, not personal.

Let's not pretend nothing positive comes from having kids, especially not on a platform where people keep complaining about being lonely.

Heck, go volunteer in a long term care facility and tell me there no difference between the amount of care that people with and without a family receive.

Relying on kids for care is like breeding servants.
Let them live life by their choices. They owe you nothing.
- I'm not saying you force them to help, I'm saying it naturally happens in most families and I'm sorry if you wouldn't be there for your parents when they're old, it must mean you have a bad relationship with them.
  In one case you only have one resource that can help you in case of need, in the other there's two.
- This isn’t fair. If you invest properly in your children, they become your friend as they age (from the perspective of a son who became friends with his parents)
Or you could also have a kid, and they may end up being special needs, which, depending upon how bad, also can't help you. Or you have a kid, and they end up being terrible to the point that your relationship fails when they get older and never want to see you again once they leave.
Having a kid doesn't necessarily mean you're guaranteed anything either. At least in your situation, you have the ability to plan ahead starting early as well as the extra income to throw at whatever solution you find.
- Sure, in the majority of cases that's not what happens though, most families care for each other.

Yeah totally, working and commuting to a job you can't stand to have most of your income taken away by payments and loans. But at least you get to vacation to places that lie further away because you were able to save up more. Because long distance travelling will definitely fulfill every need and longing you have.

Now, back from the negative. To each their own. No one should have kids if they don't want to. But a life without kids is also not just fun and cookies. In our society you are left with little time for yourself and your hobbies no matter whether you have kids or not. Most of us have no attachment to our jobs, we know they are bullshit jobs and salaries are compensating their lack of meaning. I can't understand how people want to find fulfillment in their jobs, something to live for and to draw value for your life from. A minority does have important jobs that can give you a sense of meaning (I imagine nurses, social workers, teachers) but these are usually so underpaid and have such horrible working conditions that it circles back to how can you live for that. You're replaceable. No one will thank you for your service down the line.

You can find joy in hobbies or travelling. But is this what makes your life meaningful? Does that glass of red wine in the evening and good food give your life purpose? On the other hand, do you even need a purpose? Maybe a hedonistic approach of taking just some simple pleasures from your existence is enough, but man I hope realisation won't hit when you're older that you have not tried anything of significance.

But all of that being said, this is not a reason to have kids. Kids are just a very straightforward way to add purpose, meaning, and fulfillment to your life. It is hard and exhausting and makes you angry and frustrated all the time, but this is also what makes life worth living. No one really wants to live wrapped in cotton candy. People who cannot or choose to not have kids can find fulfillment in other aspects of their life. But I'd argue that a sense of being a person close to other people, a social being with commitment and responsibility for someone else, is almost always necessary.

Kids are just a very straightforward way to add purpose, meaning, and fulfillment to your life
I'm bored and can't find meaning in my life. I'm going to procreate and make it somebody else's problem
- Well, I don't love how you phrased it, but I'll take it just so I can ask: and what's wrong with that?
This is so well said. I was a dumbass until my son was born. Then everything in life was meaningless and my son became my sole purpose in life. My job became meaningless. My friends became meaningless. Everything was focused on being the best father I can be. What was interesting is that when I started getting less of a fuck at work, I started getting promoted and getting paid more. I had more confidence during interviews because I didn't give a fuck about them.
Anyways to each their own, but I want to thank you for replying.
- This just seems sad to me personally
- Thanks man. It's insane how having a kid can change your perspective or focus. Like, yesterday I've been watching a crying two year old trying to figure out how to put on socks for 15 minutes and it was legit a beautiful and intense experience. I didn't expect I would ever say that about watching someone failing to put on socks. (Today it worked for the first time!)
  And somehow not giving a fuck in other parts of life where you used to give a fuck is so crass. I'm one of those people who cannot make a phone call to make a dentist appointment. But if it's about my kid? Hand me the phone. I also am too tired now to give a crap about tiptoeing around issues or keeping my mouth shut when something is legitimately wrong.
  As for work, I doubt I'll go back to what I've been doing before. I'll gladly take a pay cut but if I'm giving my child away to go to work I'm not going to do this for some bullshit job with no meaning.

But then you don't get any crappy gifts on Father's Day 🤷‍♂️

Says who? You can afford to get yourself a nice lego set every holiday, you ain't got no crotch fruit taking all your moneys
- I assure you I can take care of myself when I am 85. That's what the gun is for.

Ok

Unemployed?

not OP, but i wish. how would i afford to do what i want?

That's the best.

The presence of comma splices suggests you may not be old enough to have kids anyway.

Okay just play devil's advocate. The coma splices may not be as improper as you suggest . There is currently a debate among language scholars about this very thing. The question being is short form text, spoken work or written word. The way we use a text message or similar, is much more like the spoken word than the written word. Plus we are using in place of spoken word. So many linguists feel that it is acceptable to write it as we speak instead of how the rule of the written word dictate.
- That is actually how I choose to write. I think about how I would be saying it, and if there's a slight pause (like just back there) then I'll use a comma.
its a meme, not prose submitted for the pulitzer prize.
or put in a more contemporary way. "Sir this is a wendy's"

And yet here we are doing the same thing

Cool. Tell me how you fill up your social calendar at 60.

Exactly the same
- Good! If you are in that same space at that time that is awesome. I find people don't have the same attitude when it comes to that time.

Same here man. During the pandemic, my work said "Pandemic is over, come back to the newly built building we are losing money each month". A bunch of us quit instantly and they then said " Hybrid" then said " Once a week". Last I heard it's optional.