Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says

Sorry, best we can do is massive, expensive pseudo-luxury SUVs

I wouldn't call Kia nor Hyundai nor Toyota nor Honda anything close to pseudo luxury. Has the bar been lowered because of all the plasticated electronics and DUAL ZONE AC?
- The fit and finish of interiors in general has really fallen... literally plastic everywhere. Uphostery, leather, wood/wood-effect etc are all mostly gone
- There's quite a wide range within those brands. Is it safe to say that you would consider Lexus or Acura to be at least pseudo luxury? What about their entry models that are just a rebranded version of the Honda/Toyota model?
  Hell, how do we even define luxury? You can get heated leather seats in just about anything these days, and a few decades ago those were both ultra premium options.
The large profit margin SUVs are necessary for a company to achieve scale to then be able to produce the smaller cheaper stuff. Fixed costs like the factory, tooling, training, designing, that all takes a lot of money up front before even selling a single vehicle, and the smaller and cheaper the vehicle coming out of that production pipeline is, the longer the payback period will be. And when we’re talking about billions of dollars in cost, it’s hard to remain solvent when interest payments on the debt grow exponentially over time.
It’s why before tesla there had not been an American auto company startup for like 70 years, Tesla almost went bankrupt, and Rivian is just starting to head in the right direction. Lucid is probably fucked and they’re mostly Saudi owned these days anyways, and the rest of the US EV startup space ranges from a joke to a scam.
What legacy automakers already have in staff and part of the production line established is actually kind of useless when they have to wait to establish their electric motor, battery, and chassis production, which probably just means a new factory anyways. Give it a few years and the cheaper smaller stuff will come, because right now AFAIK only tesla actually has the free cash flow to fund an EV economy car at scale. Everyone else is still sinking billions establishing any EV production at all, and interest rates aren’t helping the speed of their progress either.
- There's more than one way to skin a cat. The Chinese EV companies that have come up in the last few years use a diversity of business strategies, not all involving high margin SUVs. BYD's cars, for example, are spinoffs of its battery manufacturing business.
- I'm not sure you understand economies of scale and profit margin.
I wouldn't even call Tesla expensive (to make) or luxury. Every Tesla I've been in has seemed empty, plain, and feels cheap. The only expensive part about it is the batteries and the labor to make it. I'm sure the price is just inflated due to all of the attention and hype that company has received over the years.

You say that targetting only the top 5% restricts the adoption rate. Consider me shocked...

It's almost as if consumers influence markets.
- unfortunately we have to have a competing option to vote for with our wallets. There is not a single affordable EV available in the US.
- I think it is at least as much about maturity of the technology, and competition in the market. Obviously we all want better cheaper cleaner cars. That hasn't suddenly changed.
There are several EVs out now for under $50k, and a few under $40k, so things are improving.

alternatively we could get rid of car dependency

That's fine for people who live in cities (which I acknowledge is a lot of people), but for people who live in smaller more remote and more rural places, it will never be possible to fullly be free of personal vehicles.
- Electric bike solves a lot of those issues, but you are correct.
Maybe, but I feel like that ship has sailed in the US. Both for practical/economical reasons and because will resist. If half the people fought against wearing masks to protect vulnerable people from covid, good luck getting them to give up their "single family home with a yard + 2 cars” lifestyle. For those fortunate enough to have a single family home, that is.
I’m not saying it SHOULD be this way, and I’m not arguing against reducing cars with public transit and walkable/bikeable towns. However, from my perspective inside suburbia that borders rural areas, electrification of vehicles and supplying the grid with renewables is 1000x more likely as the path to fix this stuff environmentally.
And to get rid of cars for non-environmental reasons, I think that will be even more difficult. I mean, I visited Sweden earlier this year and for all the progressive stuff they’re way ahead of us on, there are still cars everywhere. They are smaller, more sensible cars with a much larger proportion being electric, but cars just the same.
- We are screwed in the US because one side is actively and honestly against transit. The other side plays transit lip service but their actions prove they only want transit as a way to funnel money to some supporter (and so projects cost far too much and what we have runs bad schedules)
- Start small, support deregulating zoning so people can build more dense housing, and small corner shops in residential areas, that way it's not so far to go places. Support bike lanes so people can ride safely if they want to ride. Support work from home to prevent people from having to go anywhere in the first place.
Think of the shareholders!
If we started now, we'd be ready in a couple decades in all but the most compact metro areas. And that's after we build the requisite political will. The US fucked itself hard leaning into cars as transport.
But that's reality for most of us living in the burbs where the schools are better and the neighborhoods are better for kid stuff.
- neighborhoods are better for kid stuff
  Maybe it's just me growing up in the city, but I would not want to raise my kid in an American-style suburb. Imagine being a tween but never being able to go anywhere without your parents, because everything is too far away to walk or bike and public transport is not available. Yikes.
We can't, though. It would cost trillions of dollars and massive population relocation for it to happen.
Cars are here to stay. The only reduction I can see happening is if fully autonomous cars are a thing. I'm betting they won't be sold to the public and will be used like Uber.
- Not really. It would cost trillions of dollars - but it would be cheaper than car infrastructure. The key is to start building and running using transit now where it makes the most sense and expand that.
Yes. One alternative is communal traffic. People are just to lazy so they can't wait for it. If every car was indeed banned, gues how good the communal traffic would then be. Since the need increase, a lot. They would be going a lot often and suddenly there are no more cars blocking the roads. Also note that you would not have to be driving so you could do other stuff than looking at the road. And you dont have to save up money for the cars. No need to fix the car when it breaks. No need to find a gas station in time. Just less things to think about. Just look at how the flying business work today, no average people own their own plane. But still people make use of communal planes.
- My city (Houston) had a bus system that goes everywhere, but the sheer size and the lack of logical routing makes it hard to use. My friend could drive 20 minutes to work (but cannot drive because of a mental disability) or take multiple buses for 3 hours each way. She now rides an e-bike, but it still takes nearly an hour and she is literally risking her life because there are no bike lanes. Plus the cost of the bike was $3000 and it regularly needs maintenance.
- Nothing beats covinience. If it's easy, people will pay up. That means you are right, that if the communal traffic improves as you say, it would get alot more people using it.
  But unfortunately, cars are just so, so convinient, it's almost impossible to beat, if you don't straight up outlaw them.

I just want more car options and less truck/SUV options

hear hear.
I want to buy a honda plug-in hybrid.
they only make a fucking SUV plug-in hybrid.
- RIP Honda Clarity
- Jazz Hybrid?
I just want a Citroën Ami in America

This is exactly what I want, I don't need 300 miles of range, I don't need luxury entertainment systems. I need a simple vehicle with decently comfortable seats and a shitty Walmart $80 bluetooth head unit. In Europe and various parts of China / Japan you can get a small electric vehicle for like 8,000 US dollars and that's what I want here God damn it

Honestly that would be great - make the head unit similar to a car from '07/'08 and then if we want to upgrade it wity something aftermarket, we can. Then we can choose what bells and whistles we want.
No autopilot, not internet connected BS. Heck I'd even go without adaptive cruise control and lane assist.
07/08 really was one of the best eras for car interior, because the head units weren't usually integrated into the dash, meaning you didn't have to replace trim pieces with your unit in order to upgrade the damned stereo.
- Heck the lane assist, adaptive cruise, and auto pilot isn't that crazy pricy either.
  The comma 3 plus harness is 1500.
- I think a large part of the move towards integrated head units had to do with the mandated rear backup camera that necessitates a decent sized screen in the dash in order to use it. The death of CD's and CD changers also allowed for the screens to grow in size. Lastly, the touchscreens themselves are ever cheaper to manufacture. I love the giant screen in my Chevy Bolt - especially given the Google integration means I don't have to use the nonsense baked in apps from Chevy.
300 is more than I need, but I do want 200 miles of range.
I would absolutely buy the Mini if I could expect to go over a hundred miles from 80-20% for 10 years, but with a 110 mile range on day one, that just isn't happening. The 2025 model is rumored to have increased range. If that's the case, I'll probably get one.
- but I do want 200 miles of range
  But why?
  It seems like many people (me too) base what they think they'll need off of what they're accustomed to. My car will get 275-300 miles out of a tank of gas so it just seems crazy to accept less than half of that. But I don't actually drive that much. Trips where I start full and have to refill before my destination are very rare. Doubling the refueling stops and extending their length wouldn't actually bother me much, especially considering that for my day to day my car would just charge overnight and I never have to go out of my way for it. I guess what I'm getting at is that if I really think about it, a 110-150 mile range is probably about as much as I should be paying for.
- The Citroen Ami is one, starts around £7700 last i saw, tho it's a little slow. There were some better ones around 10-13k but i can't remember their names
In China they're more like $1000
- Don't they also burst into flames though? I'm not sure that's the one for me.
Asia didn't have so many dodge rams.
You sure about the tiny 6 car?

If you're being fiscally responsible there's no way to buy most new cars. People are too used to living well above their means. How these Army recruits straight out of boot camp are dropping 80k on a truck that'll never even see a sheet of plywood or drywall assuming the bed is even big enough is beyond me.
I haven't paid more than 18k on a car and even that felt like too much. And I'm well above the median household income for my region.
Frankly I wish I didn't need a car at all, but it'll be decades before our infrastructure can support that lifestyle if ever. Unless you're willing to give up an additional 2 to 3 hours per day on travel ... and I'm not.
- The used EV market is what's really preventing lower-income adoption. The insanity of the secondhand prices over the pandemic is only now beginning to break. I'm seeing polestar 2 models with reasonable miles in the high 20's. That's an enormous discount off the sticker. Tesla has also seen serious price drops.
Which is why car makers need to pursue ideas like e-fuels and hydrogen cars. The obsession with BEVs is tunnel vision, and is doing more harm than good.
- Hydrogen cars pleeeeeease. Hydrogen power is so cool! Internal combustion that outputs water! It's literally magic! And it's powered by the most common element in the universe!

We, the consumers, have also been saying that. Like, for a while.

Og VW Beetle, but aluminum and EV please.

Same for the VW Golf
- I'm so confused why they don't sell the id4 as a sporty hatchback and call it the GEI or something. It's the same platform, just tweak the suspension and add some more beefy motors, kinda like the whole idea behind the GTI

The problem is they're also adding all this other shit that adds up costs. Just make a car, but it doesn't use gasoline. That's it.

- Similar experience from a European.
  I own a 2015 Vauxhall Adam. It's a brilliant little petrol car, 3 doors, very small and very reliable.
  GM canned the model in 2019. It makes no sense to me, if they had stuck a battery in it for an electric version I'd have been sold in a heartbeat.
  But no, GM wants to focus on big cars that I don't want. I don't want anything bigger than a 3 door hatchback, I'm only 20 and have no kids, why do I need some massive fuckoff SUV????
- I will never understand how the same people that made the Volt and the Bolt made the Hummer EV
  It's such a different style, architecture, and platform that you practically can't share any parts. So whatever they learned from 10 years of selling EVs went out the window.
- Unfortunately, GM wants to get rid of Android Auto and Apple Carplay. They want to exclusively use Android Automotive. It looks like Android Auto but it's standalone. GM claims this way the smart software will be more integrated with the car's hardware... which sounds ridiculous to me.
  Edit: More clear (I hope)
- I suspect that Chevy is worried they won't be able to compete against the Kia EV price point, but that's just speculation.
But don't you want your car to sing to you while it drives itself like a maniac during rush hour because the AI literally wants to beat traffic (very physically).

They are giving americans what they want. The real problem is continuing to feed the deep rooted car addiction brought on by lobbying and corporate greed. There has not been a better time to instead invest heavily on public transportation, build extension inter-state, inter-city train systems, subway or rail systems for cities. Overtime phasing out freeways and replacing them walkable districts. I understand this won't happen over night and cities like Houston and LA are sprawling cities of 100s of miles but it needs to start somewhere and it starts with heavy investment from the federal government. Time to finally invest the tax money back to the taxpayers not defense, wars (direct, proxy or funded) and foreign affairs in the name of "national security". How about domestic security from corporate greed, price gouging, poor education, horrible Healthcare are system, costly drug prices to say the least. I understand for all these there's need to be a massive social change booth in the country and in the world's largest retirement home, US Congress.

They aren't. They are making larger vehicles to keep up with the demands for fuel efficiency (in gasoline vehicles) and max range in electric vehicles because of NHTSA regulations.
There absolutely have been better times to invest in public transit and expansion of transit systems. You require skilled man power for those things. Not just to build them but to upkeep them. And we're at a time where there are a lot of things that will need to be fixed first or we won't be able to have nice things. The mental health crisis for one, and homelessness/ rising housing costs for another. Adding infrastructure skyrockets the cost of living making affordable housing farther out of reach, and that adds fuel to the fire where the mental health crisis is concerned. You touch on corporate greed but you don't outright say we need more regulation. We do. But to get it we have to have people to enforce it. We don't have that either.
- Suburbia costs more in terms of infrastructure, density costs more because of demand. It is absolutely not the way to combat homelessness to build more sprawl.
I always see the argument for making areas more walkable. But I like a good chunk of Americans live in a subdivision and unless they tear down my neighbors homes to build stores I need to walk like 20 minutes to get anywhere I can purchase something. That said I used to live in Chicago and everything was walkable, however the population density made it possible. I don't think you can simply make a place more walkable unless the population density supports it.
- I feel a way to combat suburban hellholes is to at least make it more cycle-friendly in those areas. Big stroads kill any chance of people being able to cycle to stores, I feel a lot of people don't want to have to drive to get to a Walmart, especially in hot months and would probably prefer to bike it instead. There's obviously also the health benefits of people cycling too. For those more lazy individuals, e-bikes and e-scooters are a good idea that can help them rely less on their car too, and are far cheaper to run than a full car.
  Eliminating huge sprawling suburbs is a monumental task, but we can at least apply patch fixes for some things at the moment.
- Why tear anything down? With zoning changes we could re-allow neighbors to build Front yard businesses like small grocers and cafes again
brought on by lobbying and corporate greed
That they've brought on, mind you.

I can't be the only one who has noticed the uptick in the negative EV press lately. Is this the same death throws akin to the buggy whip lobby of yore?

Edit* price needs to be attainable for the many for sure.. but the amount of negative press is "sus" (as the kids say)

People are genuinely unimpressed with the high prices and low range numbers on what are supposed to be the next generation of vehicles. Volume and tech advancement were supposed to make them cheap and practical, but all that's gone up is the price.
Especially with talk of banning the sale of gas vehicles in the fairly near future, they are going to have to do a lot better than this or a lot of people are just going to end up without any vehicle at all.
Myself living in a rural, cold climate, 200km from any major center, nobody has made any practical vehicle for me yet. I even already own an EV, but it's really just a powerful golf cart. Once it gets much below freezing, I'm lucky to make it to a neighbour's place and back.

Everytime I consider buying an EV I do some research and they always seem to have all of the bells and whistles. Then I get to price and it’s like $60,000+ and I can’t help but wonder how much cheaper it could be without all of the added features.

Edit: I’m not going to reply to everyone and I really should have mentioned since it’s not immediately obvious but I’m Australian. No Chevy volt and and all vehicles are imported increasing prices on top of the usual AUD imbalance.

This. Just this, so much. How much would a battery, an electric engine and safety shit cost?
- I've seen conversion kits for old trucks under $10k. So there's your answer.
  Unfortunately said kits are often lacking in range unless you're willing to fill your truck box with batteries, because you can't really retrofit a "skateboard" style battery.
  I literally want that skateboard with seats and a steering wheel. Hell, give me a diesel burning heater and a washer fluid bulb I have to stomp on like I have in my old truck, I'm not picky
I just bought a used 2022 Polestar 2 under 20k miles for $35k.
Chevy bolt at least has half of the features but still quite a few, I would say a very set of features to include, but I do imagine it would only shave less than 5k if the bolt had the most basic of features. That means it would be 1-2k cheaper as a used vehicle. I do think it's the more reasonable priced vehicle, and we need more competitors to this vehicle. On the other hand, most of the cost is the battery and it just something researchers must be paid to bring innovations for and its just not reasonable to pay them cheap as they are doing a great thing for humanity. However, this forces companies to charge higher prices and should instead be subsidized without trademark/IP protections restricting its adoption.
- And they almost killed the Bolt.
Last year I bought new Citroen e-berlingo for 25.000€. It would be €32.000 without subsidies but still not 60.000.
This. For most of my trips I could use a glorified golf cart.

Lithium ion battery technology is not a good fit with the type of vehicles we currently produce. The energy density is nowhere near fossil fuels and this implies a big battery, which also adds mass. By 2027, Land Rover and other makers of SUV will be nudging 3000kg for some of their models.

IMHO the only viable solution for li-ion is ultralight vehicles. Bicycles and Velomobiles are light enough to get decent range at speed. A bicycle used with integrated high speed rail would solve most of our commuting problems. The fact is, whether you are making tailpipe emissions or not, F=ma. Moving a 3t mass around for one person is always going to use an extravagant amount of energy and that energy has to come from somewhere.

Work from home, eat less meat, make fewer journeys, use a bike more often, make fewer children. Those are some things most of us can do.

Yes the energy density is less, but the efficiency is better. ICE wastes like 2/3 of that extra energy. Still has more, but 1/3 that you might think.
Blame the manufacturers and our obsession with driving land whales, not the batteries.
A Tesla Model 3 SR+ was almost the same weight as a Toyota Camry hybrid of similar shape and size.
EVs should weigh 2-300kg more at most
If we aim for sustainable living, the number of kids don’t matter, surely?
- Correct. The goal isn't to take the meaning or joy out of life but do we really need 10b people and is that sustainable under capitalism? It doesn't look like it is without making some change.
"15 minute" suburbs should fix the need of large ass SUVs and such but somehow authorities resist this, like they have a stake in this 🤔 15 minutes cities/villages is a common and logical thing around the world yet in US it is weird... like americans want to drive 20 minutes for fucking 1 liter of Pepsi... Now when car prices are insane more of them wake up. Suburbs should have places to go to, shops, parks, schools
- That is an excellent point. We've created the requirement for cars by the way we've organised our societies. I live in the UK, a much smaller country but my work is a 1.5hr drive away or 2.5hr on train. I wouldn't do this job without WFH but my employer is now pressing people to come back to the office. Likewise, all my amenities are a good distance away, within cycling range but zero cycle paths. I cycle to the train station but it doesn't feel safe or pleasant around traffic and the train to work is actually more expensive than the drive.
The weight issue is why I'm looking forward to (hopefully) seeing the Aptera make it to production. Being super aerodynamic and lighter weight so that it can charge up to 40 miles a day on solar alone. Lithium batteries would be better suited for this form factor.
Take public transit and advocate for more transit to replace car infrastructure, and for neighbourhoods to be made more walkable with a more even mix of commercial and residential. The latter can literally be as simple as lifting building use restrictions to allow people to open businesses in or on the same plot as residential homes and convert parts of commercial buildings to apartments.

Honestly, cheaper and smaller cars across the board would be nice. Everything is a fucking tank now.

Yep, because of a loophole in pollution regulation
A bit of a cobra bite.

Donald Trumps tariffs have been a disaster

There are great EVs out there but trump blocked them. We have all lost out

I saw in Asia there is a Chinese EV, I think the brand is Wuling, for about ~13-15k with about 180 miles of range. Small car but perfect for local driving.
- Wuling and BYD absolutely dominates cheap EV segment in Asia. Their small EVs basically cost almost a quarter of Hyundai Ioniq 5.

The last paragraph of this article is right on. Don’t just tell people to buy EVs and then call it a day. Improve the infrastructure. Make buying an EV feel like less of an unsupported risk.

I understand that automakers don't want to make plug-in hybrids because of the complexity, but mine has served me well and most of the time I can stay within the electric range (where sometimes I go a whole year without having to fill up on gas). With my use case, it's actually better for the environment than a full EV since the battery doesn't have to be so huge.

Regardless, if these automakers don't get their act together, they're going to be destroyed by cheap Chinese EVs, just like how US automakers got destroyed by Japanese vehicles during the oil embargo and periods of high gas prices. Maybe they'll just lobby the government to lock out the Chinese competition one way or another.

I still think BMW had the right idea with the range extender on the i3 - make a small electric car, stick a gasoline generator in the boot just in case.
- Aaaaand they cancelled the i3

Or, ya know, invest in battery tech so it's more convenient to charge cars and push for gas stations and parking lots to all have chargers.

or make the battery replaceable

That's actually what they did before the Tesla, and the result was the cars were so useless nobody wanted to buy them.
Most carmakers make small subcompact EVs, and they are way more useful now, but even Dacia Spring which is probably the cheapest European made EV, isn't competitive against similar sized or prized ICE cars. And frankly it's a very unattractive car in many ways IMO.
ICE cars have a century of iterations and optimizations on cost effective production and efficiency, it will take a while longer to get the EVs to the same level.
Batteries are getting both cheaper and better and safer, so there is no doubt EVs will ultimately surpass ICE in probably every segment.

Attractiveness is an interesting point; it would be interesting to see a “boring” normal looking car that doesn’t lean into the somewhat polarizing EV aesthetic.
- OK, I didn't mean attractive as in how it looks, I mean more that it has a tiny battery, and it doesn't have a fast charger either, the cheap model you can't even get as an extra!. It's not a "real" car IMO, but more something that can be used as a 2nd car, maybe for shopping. It's simply so underwhelming in every way for its price IMO.
There was an awful lot of "most trips are under x miles, so we will plan for x miles of range".
- Yes probably, but I don't see why I would buy a car that can only manage "most trips" unless it's as a second car.

Nissan leaf.... IS FIFTY GRAND?! +custom charger +shit range.... yeah I'll keep my 10yr old dino burning corolla mate.

Seems like it starts at $28k before tax credits? Base model of course, but still...
https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html
Edit: Also, not to say that's cheap by any means, but in line with other inflated gas auto prices.
- In the US maybe.
  In Europe you can get an ICE car for the equivalent of about 12k USD. Which is considerably better than what most EVs are going for.
The Nissan leaf is a crap car. Pretty much every EV is better than the Nissan leaf, I don't understand how it costs the amount it costs.
I read that in the DankPods voice

Or people need to give up the idea of taking three tons of metal to work with them every day.

Happy too just as soon as work locate themselves somewhere that's actually accessible via public transport. And not in some out of town business park with only road access and no cycling facilities.
Also they need to change the weather so it never rains or snows and is always warm but not too warm.
If they start doing those things then we can talk.
- Also they need to change the weather so it never rains or snows and is always warm but not too warm.
  I love when people say stuff like this. It's the "I'm not even going to try" comment. If children in Finland can bike to school in the winter, I think your adult self can deal with a little bit of not-ideal weather sometimes. You just have to dress for it, and not expect to always be isolated from the environment like some people want to be for some reason.
- just as soon as work locate themselves somewhere that's actually accessible via public transport
  Might be easier to enact WFH and vote for more public transportation funding. Waiting for a company to choose to do anything on their own is a little naive, though.
  Also they need to change the weather so it never rains or snows and is always warm but not too warm.
  Well as long as our expectations are realistic.
  If they start doing those things then we can talk.
  Most reasonable pro-SUV advocate award.

Best thing for consumers and environmental would be conversion. We already have the cars. I like my 2003 Golf. I won't be getting rid of it until I need to.

Why replace 8 billion cars when we can convert them. Yeah they won't be nearly as efficient but it's a stop gap between scrapping that many cars. Also I can't afford a new ev. I need a small run around with 259 miles.

I have had a handful of that generation golf over the years that I have modified. It would be absurdly simple to drop an electric motor into that thing if the right kit existed.
- The kits do exist. But I think they are pretty awful. Like maybe less than 100 miles. Our car is incredibly heavy so it might get even less. Once we get stupid good range and the price comes down.
  Then we are talking. But will the world actually allow us to wean ourselves of fossil fuels. Every car company and conglomerate doesn't want the poor to get access to cheap transportation.
  So it's kinda scary
- Funny is that the way things have been going the last few years, if there's a kit for your car, it's probably based on parts from a crashed Tesla. Which is a good thing, IMO

$7.25 minimum wage

Walmart is paying about $14

not sure cheaper, smaller EVs will help spur adoption better wages will

I don't see what minimum wage has to do with this when as you said, major low skill employers are paying almost double minimum wage.
better wages will
Well yeah all spending would go up if you paid people more. But the US is very good compared to other countries in pay, including countries with similar living expenses.
Imo, the issue with EVs is price, but new ICE cars aren't cheap either. But a ton(most?) people don't buy new cars. My parent's cars(ICE) are from 2005 and 2007, without having done major maintenance. Not only is there a lack of cheap used EVs on the market because they're still new, but also people are reasonably worried about the longevity of the batteries- so would be hesitant to buy one.

It's almost like the people who buy EVs are doing it to save money.

- Also I heard that EVs are alot cheaper to maintain, due to rare malfunctions, because so few moving parts in the car.
  It was even a big topic at my local mechanic because they didn't earn any money on EVs.
  Sounds amazing for consumers.
- Hey Polestar buddy! I just got one too.
The money saving is the bait on the hook, but once you change there is no return. It's just so much better in every way
- How about cold weather?
How do you know that?
- It's just a guess, but it's also the main reason I'm looking for a plug-in hybrid.
- I don't.

I do miss smaller cars and if they were electric too? Count me in! The 80's economy cars were the best.

Honestly, I'd love a smart car sized EV. If I'm just running errands I don't need my truck (it's a Santa Cruz, not a gas guzzler).

And my wife has to commute 40 miles a day, which makes her jeep kinda impractical.

99% of the time that is all I need. However the cost of two vehicles is so high I end up with a large truck for that 1% of the time (every try to rent a truck to use as a truck? it isn't possible as there are so many restrictions)
- ??? I rented a pickup no issue from Home Depot. What restrictions did you see?
There are a bunch of them, depending on country. In the US we have the Chevy Spark.
- Which is 1.5 times bigger than a common Smart, and is discontinued. Instead, GM is actually focusing on making electric… trucks 🥲
There is an electric Smart, they just don't sell it in the USA

nah, they've made their evil choice, just let me import a small cheap EV from some country that cares. Just liquidate US automakers churning out larger and larger ICE trucks and SUV's.

Because those will sell great in a market filled with massive SUVs and pickup trucks.

I'd buy one.
I'm priced out of most EV's at the moment and the majority of the ones being made aren't anything I'd want anyway. Sign me up for an electric Miata, I'm there. Big battery, two seats, and with crank windows for all I care. Or a motorcycle...
- Mini Cooper se. 3000lb, technically a 4 seater hatchback, 180hp, 100 mile range. Usually around $20k for a couple of years old. Actually considered it, but unfortunately I probably won't have access to a place to charge over night for the foreseeable future.
- Zero Motorcycles. Not super cheap, as far as motorcycles go, but cheaper than a car for sure.

Currently you can buy a Model 3 for ~$33k or less in the US. That's ~$10k less than the average new car price, for what could be considered a "luxury car".

Pricing is not the (only) problem.

I think the point is that they should be accessible to people without “luxury” budgets.
I refuse to pay 30k plus for a car that I only need to get me from point a to b. Not everyone is a car fanatic.
Pricing is very much the problem if they want wider adoption.
- I don't think it's possible to make cars at that price. We have several that are <$30k and all are being sold at a loss.
- For real. If I'm getting an EV, I'm getting it for efficiency, not luxury. I wouldn't be traveling across the state or the country. I'd be using it to get to work and get the groceries. You can't tell me it's not possible to make something with an electric motor, spartan accessories, and a decent range for less than 12-15k. Seriously, I don't want a car that drives itself. I don't really even want automatic transmissions, although electric almost negates the need for any transmission. I just want a car that is cheap, does the job, and that I don't have to chop my left nut off for these days.
- Well perhaps UNICEF will one day get into the EV production business but for now they're not profitable.
  Most of the ~$30k cars on sale today are being sold at a loss. Tesla is your best bet as they still have considerable profit margins but given the speed of their progress and their current demand it likely won't be for a couple more decades.
And then have to deal with the company with quite possibly the worst customer service of any car company on the planet?
Yeah great start.
- They're probably not any worse than your local dealership.

Thought that image was of a rad Winamp equalizer at first. Was disappointed.

That doesn't whip the llama's ass

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Earlier this week, we learned of an effort by some auto dealers to pump the brakes on the US government's electric vehicle adoption goals.

EVs are sitting too long on dealership lots, they say, and the public just isn't ready to switch.

But the industry has some work to do if it wants to smoothly transition from those early adopters to the "early majority" phase, and JD Power's advice sounds a lot like what we constantly hear in the comments: build smaller, cheaper EVs.

And mainstream customers have to pay a lot more for the privilege of going electric; an EV powertrain only adds about $4,000 to the price of a comparable premium SUV, but the gap between a mass market compact crossover and one with an internal combustion engine is around $18,000.

Like it or not, EV buyers have some legitimate concerns not shared by people buying conventionally powered vehicles.

"The sooner EV stakeholders focus on consumer education and significant investment in EV charging infrastructure, the sooner mass market consumers will follow," JD Power said.

The original article contains 378 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 53%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

Aptera should be a pretty great option

Chevy Bolt just got canceled this year so... ?

They are called ebikes

This is the truth

Citroen e-c3 is trying.

looks interesting, it certainly is very cheap and the range / charging is good enough for many people in practice, even when many will think its not
Europe has so many super cool options!

I think a lot of people will avoid it just because of what’s going on in the Congo unless that company can prove that they aren’t getting their cobalt from the Congo.

Most people have no idea