Microsoft still can't convince folks to upgrade to Windows 11
Microsoft still can't convince folks to upgrade to Windows 11 - Hypertext
cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/37265606
I use Linux on my home computer, and Windows on my work computer (begrudgingly).
Windows 11 does not feel like an 'upgrade' at all. One obvious downgrade is that when I try to change the settings when printing a document, the settings window does not fit on the screen. ... I don't blame Windows for that - its a big settings Window. But the issue is that Windows doesn't allow me resize it, or scroll down on it, or even let me drag it partially of the screen. And so the result is that it is impossible for me to click the 'ok' button when I'm done. The only way to save my changes is if I memorise which button is ok, then press 'tab' the exact right number of times to have it select the ok button while I can't see it, and then press enter. That's pretty crap. I didn't have that problem on windows 10. (To be honest I don't remember exactly what was different. Certainly the window with all the settings was the same, but I believe it had a scroll bar, maybe? In any case, I could certainly press the ok button before 'upgrading'!)
There are so many annoying features in Windows 11 that I've spent ages trying to turn off. For example, I was happy with the way windows could be snapped to the top and to the sides of the screen in windows 10. In Windows 11 they've expanded that feature, but made it worse. The snapping brings up menus, and behaves different ways at different times. It's fiddly and harder to predict. It tries to do more, but ends up being less useful because it is unreliable. I've disabled most of the differences in the settings, but not all can be disabled.
And there are heaps of weird inconsistencies in Windows 11. For example, when I rename a file in file explore; often stays in the same places even though it is no longer in the correct file order with the new name. So with alphabetically ordered files, there are often a few things that are out of order - because Windows is inconsistent. (Closing and reopening reorders them.) There are also some weird glitches. For example, I often see graphical glitches while using Excel in Windows 11 which I never saw in Windows 10. Things like rows partially overlapping other rows after scrolling, or the outline of the selected cell sometimes not being visible in parts of the document until you minimise and restore the app. It's pretty bogus. Obviously they've tried to change some backend stuff and created some bugs in the process.
Anyway, the point is that it easy to see why someone would be reluctant to 'upgrade' to Windows 11.
My work computer is on W11. Notifications got much worse, and moved to a harder-to-reach shortcut. There's a persistent bug with maximization, in which many forms of apps will suddenly take over the region normally reserved for the taskbar (no, I'm not referring to full screen modes) that so far as I can tell can only be fixed by logging out.
The UI is worse, making settings pages even more confusing. Windows Explorer has dived deep into iconography, while still not being clear about what those icons mean. The new context menus are missing options, so they need an extra one to go back to W10's options.
This is of course setting aside their blatant lies about "It's not spyware we promise we promise", among so many other hundreds of problems. I'm doomed to stay on W10 for now to finish a project, but afterwards, I'll be finding a distro I prefer.
I moved to Linux thanks to their enshittification. I'm kicking myself I didn't do it years ago. Linux is how an OS should be.
Welcome to linux bro
I think Linux has also improved immensely. There are so many more things available that weren't an option even a few years ago. Not to say it was bad, but it wasn't something most people could seemlessly do. Now it kinda is.
Windows 11 blue screens on my desktop on the very first boot right after installation.
Windows shoving AI down everyone's throats lead me to Linux. First Debian, then Fedora. BTW I'm using Arch now. I love AI, but giving Microsoft full access to my entire file system by force rubs me the wrong way.
Same. I run a dual-boot with Linux Mint, but have a windows installation for gaming. I do 99% of my computing on Linux now.
I converted to Linux as soon as one of the shit Windows 11 updates bricked my 5-year old laptop that was working fine previously.
Kubuntu 4 lyfe! ✌️🤪
tried to upgrade, it knocked me back to w10 and broke my sound driver
I'm still on win10. Planning on hopping over this one Linux-based operating system for gaming specifically (can't remember its name) once the updates for Win10 run dry. I've heard so much bad stuff about 11 that I'm going to try again with Linux (years ago I jumped in Ubuntu since a friend recommended it but I needed to jump back because games didn't work well).
I ran POP-OS for about six months a couple of years ago and ended up switching back to Windows because there were too many compromises. Recently I tried it again with the same problems but jumped to Bazzite instead. It fixed most of my issues but I didn't like the limitations imposed by the guardrails it put in place to make things easy. I then switched to Fedora since that is Bazitte's base and haven't looked back. The only issue I've had is the video drivers didnt install right automatically but the fix was three well documented commands.
Debian, I believe.
Bazzite and nobara are the two I think. I am using Bazzite and am quite happy. Good luck
Yes, it was Bazzite 😊 It was recommended by a friend.
PopOS?
Bazzite 😁
Windows convinced me to upgrade to Linux :D
*Downgrade
Win 11 is a downgrade.
They can't convince me to switch to Win 11 because apparently my computer isn't good enough.
For me, my computer is eligible one day, and then incompatible the next. Switchin like that for a couple weeks now. Linux here I come I guess.
I'm poised... might try a dual boot first.
I forced a win 11 upgrade on my old Lenovo laptop and it's been running mint 🤟
If you use Rufus to create a USB stick, there is an advanced option to disable the TPM check. So it's just an extra checkbox.
Bro they couldn't convince me to upgrade to Windows 8.
This happens every time there's a new windows version
Part of it is just resistance to change, but the hardware restrictions and AI encroachment are legitimate impediments in this case.
I mean, who wants to buy a brand-new computer to be able to run Windows 11 anyway? Besides,most folks aren't tech-savvy or care enough to go through the hoops just to install this dumpster fire of an OS.
My gaming computer runs Windows 11. I honestly couldn't tell you the difference between Windows 10 and 11.
Why the FUCK would I do that? Just to give microsoft more money? Go and FUCK yourself.
Don't forget AI shoved down your throat that takes goddamn screen captures without any care of what sensitive infor,ation may be displayed and processes it to reme,bet everything your do. It's goddamn 1984.
Microsoft also works with American intelligence, like other corporations. They won't even fix zero day exploits without first letting the NSA know in advance. Telecoms have black rooms whose entire purpose is to siphon data directly to the authorities, Microsoft probably has a whole building.
I mean, it's windows 10, but worse
Plus with all their decision to force people to trash millions of perfectly working computers... I know many they just give up on personal computers and just use phones/tablet as it's enough for them
I'm grateful. It was the push I needed to stop using windows.
If they'd made it even vaguely tempting I probably wouldn't have bothered.
It's the new Windows 8.
At least we could skip w8
Time to upgrade to Linux.
Cool site! Didn't know it existed, and I was pleased to see that there are people out there willing to "fingers on the keyboard" assist those who want to switch but don't know how.
I'm one of the few whose laptop is about 10 years old so it needs replacing. Most likely a new laptop will be preloaded with windows 11. Do they sell laptops pre-loaded with Linux?
System76 has laptops with Pop OS
Installing linux yourself is dead easy. I would just buy a Windows laptop and wipe the drive
I don't want Microsoft to have the win of selling even 1 license.
It was already quite doable in late 1990s Suse, although it took a day and you actually had to read the book it came with. The partitioning was annoying and confusing for a first-timer, and the default packages were also lacking. Now, not harder than Windows.
Depending on your budget, there's the Framework laptops.
Edit: I want to add... What I did, was go to an opshop, get a laptop there, and wipe it for Linux. I got a decent laptop at a decent price, saved a little on ewaste for the world, helped a local opshop make a little money, and not contributed to any corpo greed.
What's a opshop?
At the lower end of the budget you could consider libreboot - it's a one person band who ships refurbished Lenovo thinkpads with Linux pre-installed
That's roughly what I'm hoping for: Former top of the line 7th gen CPU ThinkPad, such as a P51 or P71, might become really cheap as soon as the small Linux used hardware market is satiated when Win10 support ends.
For me, that'd be a massive upgrade :-)
eBay has tons of off-lease/refurbished computers for pennies on the dollar. Hard format the drive, install your distro, and you're off and running.
I remember hearing about System76 a while back. They manage Pop!_OS which comes preloaded on their stuff. I don't know much more than that. If you are mainly looking to replace your laptop because you don't want to switch to 11, you could always try out Linux on it with a live USB. Basically you format a thumb drive to act as a boot drive. There are resources online on how to do it and it's pretty simple. It doesn't mess with your current install. If you like it, you can fully install it later.
There are some companies that sell hardware with Linux pre-installed. The bigger companies that do are Dell and Lenovo. Maybe some others I am not aware of. If you want to support a smaller company that also sells Linux preinstalled, you should look into System76 and Framework. I would not be surprised if there are others as well.
If you are feeling up to it, I think it’s a great idea to watch some videos regarding installing a Linux distribution on your own and doing it that way. It isn’t very difficult (You may have to adjust some BIOS settings for example) and many distributions guide you in keeping a windows install and Linux install at the same time dual boot style if you want a back up Windows install. It will be a good first step in learning a little about how Linux works so you can figure out any issues more easily if they happen to come up.
I switched to Linux primarily last year, and other than some distro hopping to find my right fit, I haven’t looked back and I don’t plan on it.
Thanks!
There are some companies that sell hardware with Linux pre-installed. The bigger companies that do are Dell and Lenovo.
Last time I checked, admittedly years ago, I was irritated at paying the same price as for the windows version of the same hardware. Why do I still need to pay the Microsoft tax and who’s getting it?
It was so unconvincing I switched to Linux
I have had Linux for more than a year now, a universal blue managed one, I have forgotten what updates are even. Games play great, coding is super easy. Windows only exist because consumers are ignorant, but that can be said about most of capitalism.
The risk for both general and corporate business users far outweighs any minor inconveniences of moving to a new OS version.
Minor inconveniences like HAVING TO BUY A WHOLE NEW FUCKING COMPUTER.
These people live in a fantasy world.
Other minor inconveniences may include:
I'm talking out of my ass, but I believe they couldn't really convince the non-techies to upgrade from 7 & 8 to 10 either.
The average Joe doesn't give a shit. They simply booted their computer one day and oops, it had upgraded itself to 10.
Microsoft could have almost this entire userbase on 11 by now without them even knowing thanks to 10's automatic updating, but nooooooo they just had to require TPM or some shit.
I kind of thought that was the only real difference with 11: requiring the tpm
No, they made a lot of working shit worse and a lot of new, invasive shit required.
That happened to my mother. Now she wants me to fix that shit and I just tell her I don't know how to.
Have they tried not being spyware?
Imo, even taking away the spying thing, windows design is just awful and they somehow manage to pile up fuckups and poor choices as they release new OSs.
The official support for Windows 10 ends on Oct 14, 2025. Give new life to your old computer. Save money and install Linux: https://endof10.org/
I have win 11. I only use it as a steam game machine and sometimes vr games.
If I'm ever required to reformat I'll probably try IoT Enterprise LTSC. Unsure how video game friendly the version is though.
IoT Enterprise works just fine. That said, I still don't trust Microsoft - it still insists on forced updates and reboots, and likely AI, down the line.
I am figuring on switching to SteamOS Desktop, once that is released.
IOT Enterprise LTSC fully works for running Windows games. It just doesn't have a lot of the bloatware. I've tried it and I'm dual booting with Arch.
If it is just meant as a steam machine, I recommend looking at Nobara for Nvidia GPU and Bazzite for AMD GPU. I will admit that I haven't tested vr games yet.
Personally, I'm maining Arch and it plays most games in HDR at 4k 120Hz. My Windows is so I have access to Microsoft Office.
Speaking of which... What's the least invasive way of installing Windows 11?
My main desktop has a Linux and Windows 10 dual-boot setup, but I was thinking about switching to something like Windows To Go when Windows 10 hits EOL, only to find that WTG is no longer supported. I've heard that it's still possible to make a bootable Windows 11 USB using Rufus, but that it's somehow finicky or buggy...
I'm not sure if using a VM is a viable option for me, as I would probably need GPU passthrough and I really only have space for a single GPU in my current case (that would be used by my Linux host).
Am I stuck dual-booting?
Stop forcing shit no one wants on your users then!
Every fucking update... Hey let's backup your stuff. Hey wanna backup your stuff? Let's backup your stuff! We totally won't hold it hostage if you stop paying us lol!
🤬
I sidestepped to Mint. Sorry, Microsoft, your shit’s untenable and disappointing.
That is what I am planning on doing as well. I am not going to install their ad-, bloat- and surveillance-ware.
Me too? I just switched a few days ago and I'm shocked how easy things have been.
Aside from some generic brand hardware I've got, most stuff just works. Main issue is not being able to use my Xbox controller wirelessly at the moment.
I did the same and using Windows at work is slowly becoming unbearable.
Same! Even converted a couple of Surface tablets over as well. Id like to try Pop Linux on one of them just to see, but can't get em to boot from USB.
I did too on my laptop but on pc I'll probably just stick with windows 10, I'd rather deal with security vulnerabilities then ai in my OS
Proton’s good, by the way. If gaming is holding you back, at least.
Look into https://0patch.com/
Keeps you secure without having to pay Microsoft another red cent
If you must use windows, and might want to upgrade to 11, lets say, for certain games, this project Flyoobe will help create a windows 11 install without all that bloat and ai
Take their ESU extension to get one last year of W10 update. At least it gets you time to see if you can migrate on linux maybe.
I successfully upgraded from Windows 10 to Linux Mint.
I'm upgrading to Debian 13 instead, since 13 is bigger number than 11 so obviously it's better
This is why I upgraded my Windows 10 laptop to a Fedora 42 one. 42 is obviously the biggest. And thusly better than Debian.
Just wait until you learn about Windows 2000
You’ll likely need to purge your Nvidia drivers after upgrading to 13, I had two machines fail to start NvidiaPersistence.d.service (or something like that) which caused the machines to fail on boot-up.
Reinstalled the drivers with sudo apt install nvidia-driver nvidia-cuda-dev nvidia-cuda-toolkit if you’re looking for raytracing don’t forget to install libnvoptix1.
My elderly parents got the "your computer cannot be upgraded" and my somewhat tech-litterate mom asked me to move them to Linux.
Microsoft should've realised at some point that the only thing most people need today is a computer that can run a web browser and connect to a printer.
It boggles my mind that tablets didn’t take over already as peoples “At home” devices
I swear to Torvalds, if the amount of old ladies using Linux because their Fedi relatives installed it on their laptops is accurate we are in the middle of an major demographic crisis.
For every one, there's the younger relatively who installed it for them, so things are in perfect balance in the end.
the only thing most people need today is a computer that can run a web browser and connect to a printer.
I cannot the life of me get my Linux laptop to use my fucking Canon WiFi printer. It detects the printer, says it's connected, but it simply will not send a print job to it. Windows, iOS and android all use it just fine...but this fucking Linux machine just won't, I've spent hours fiddling with drivers and nothing works, it's infuriating!
Yeah that sounds bad :/ All Brother here with no issues. Esp. Linux Mint just autodetects and sets everything up directly.
Eh, my in-laws have the same problem.. but on windows
It wasn't canon in my case, but I found with other network printers on Linux that not bothering with "auto finding" and just putting the IP address in manually (give fixed devices fixed IPs on your router to make this kind of thing easier). Most desktop environments have a printer tool that should allow manually adding a printer.
I have to say with the work provided HP PoS I last had, it was equally as difficult to get windows to talk to it, to be fair.
Can u tell ur model of printer maybe I can help I had fight a bit with canon printer too a bit but in the end it started working
Let me tell you:
I've been using Linux exclusively since ~2010 and moved my mum over back when XP got canned. Printers always have been and still are the bane of my existence. From what I know from other people working in IT printers are always bad, however of course the driver support situation in Linux is so much worse. My mum used to have a Samsung mfp that would print in Linux (most of the time) but I could not for the life of me figure out how to get it to scan reliably. In the end I've set her up with a dual boot with a simple "click here to switch to Windows" button so she could scan in there (saving the scans to a NAS)
From my experience printers mostly either work or don't work in Linux. If you are looking for a new printer I've only had food experiences with Brother. If you already have a printer and it's not working right I can recommend sxouring through forums for that one wisdom of the ancients that can help (and possibly sacrificing a goat)
I bow also have a Canon printer (it was a gift) and with the official Linux drivers it worked for years. Recently it just wouldn't print from Linux anymore till I switched the drivers to the generic "Guteprint" now it's printing fine again ...
Tl;dr: printers are evil and Linux drivers are sometimes making them worse
We use a Canon at work, behind a print server called UniPrint, or some shit. I figured out how to use it to print from a USB drive long before I finally caved and mailed the guy who maintains it to ask how to get my KDE Neom machine to successfully send a print job. I figured out how to see it, I could check the toner levels, but I could not send a print.
Works now, because he changed a setting.
Bastard printers.
I can get mine to speak to my shitberg printer, but I went and bought bootleg ink cartridges and I have a half-day printer battle on my to do list to reset the ink levels and force the printer to accept non-HP ink into its heart.
Ironically my fedora computer connected out of the box, but my wife’s windows laptop breaks the printer each time it tries to connect.
If there’s a firmware update available I have to manually update the printer firmware after her computer tries to print.
Mac and Linux work fine 100% of the time.
I've been trying to get my MIL's printer working forever.
Check if you selected the correct driver
My old printer got better support on linux than modern windows. HP has long since took the driver off their website.
I moved my MIL to Mint. It runs faster and she hasn't had any issues accessing Internet and email.
Even if I had wanted to upgrade, I wouldn't be able to, since Microsoft needs hardware mg computer doesn't have. I can't imagine most people would care enough to even think about that. They'd just keep using the computer until it no longer worked, and in the modern day, that will take a lot longer than it would have a decade or two ago.
They're not trying to get me to upgrade my OS, they're trying to get me to buy a whole new fucking system for no good reason. Every last one of them can die in a fire.
And that's before we consider that Windows 11 is actually a downgrade.
Microsoft was successful in convincing me to upgrade to Mint however.
Me too. Had been wanting to switch to linux for some time and Windows 11 gave me the final push and it went a lot smoother than expected.
Microsoft 'Convinced' me to move to Linux, best move I've ever done.
Looking at it from a perspective other than "Windows shit, use Linux", MS' biggest issue here is that the vast majority have no compelling reason to upgrade. Currently.
To the average punter, W11 offers nothing that W10 doesn't already have. There's no new technologies that they care about, no new tentpole software that they're dying to try. Nothing. It has copilot running rampant through it, but most people don't know what that is or don't give a shit.
Give Apple their due, when they announce an OS update, they focus hard on the ways it improves over the current offering. Ways it can interact with your other devices, for example. Or even just a whole new design.
But MS advertise nothing beyond "This is new, come get it!", then wonder why no one cares.
The biggest problem Microsoft has is that the biggest selling feature of Windows is its ability to be backwards compatible and run on older hardware. The fact that a good number of PCs that aren’t even 10 years old can’t even run it is the issue. Also, MacOS names for each update are unique and interesting. Windows 11 is a very uncreative name which has always been a problem with Microsoft; example: Xbox One…
Maybe it is worth saying that it isn't that it can't run on it, it is that Microsoft is trying to stop it from running on it. Two registry keys and 11 replaces 10 on anything 10 works on. But they don't want to tell anyone that.
But the premise is sound: to the end consumer they hear "buy a new computer" while the old one works fine, and the new ones price is starting to climb....
The biggest problem Microsoft has is that the biggest selling feature of Windows is its ability to be backwards compatible and run on older hardware.
Absolutely, a gazillion percent this. My main desktop doesn't have TPM. I bought a cheap micro form factor Lenovo that I thought would run Win 11, but it didn't. It had a 6-year old CPU and that wasn't supported by Windows 11. 6 years old. I realized then that this eliminated one major reason to get a Windows PC over a Mac. I think that both Mac and Linux are going to make huge gains in market-share in the next months and years.
I genuinely couldn't tell you what the current gen Xbox is named, though to be fair I don't really pay that much attention these days.
But yeah, Windows can't really have much of a default theme update when there are a good four different window styles throughout the various settings panels.
A lot of people are also questioning why they even have a home PC now. Their Win 10 machine is "out of date" and they need to replace it or else, but their cell phone now does much of what their PC did. Instead of installing Linux and learning a whole new OS, they just cut out their PC and just use their phone.
the biggest selling feature of Windows is its ability to be backwards compatible and run on older hardware
Really? I thought it was supposed to run older software, I don't think hardware comes into it.
And also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but whenever Apple releases a new MacOS version they don't put fullscreen nag messages on your machine...
They do not. Yet.
As a non windows user, I don't get to interact with Microsoft systems an awful lot, but to me windows 10 felt like a complete system while windows 11 always feels like an early beta for some reason. It has some kind of unfinished, wet paint quality to it.
Ironically, Windows users have generally felt that way with every new Windows version after 7. Vista was painful for a lot of people and 7 was basically Vista but with the problems finally fixed, and every version since then people have complained that the newest version feels unfinished.
And in a lot of ways they have been. In 10, there are at least 2 different UIs for navigating the system and settings. Some options have been migrated over to the newer one, some only exist there, and some still only exist in the old version of the settings. And then 11 made it even worse by moving a number of frequently used options in the right-click menu into a second menu that you have to open after you right click.
People hated 10 at first, too, but by now they've gotten used to it and Microsoft has ironed off most of the rough edges people hated. But it's been building for years and this pattern has seemingly hit some kind of breaking point with the present-day circumstances.
I don't really use Windows these days. Mostly in a VM to make sure something I'm fiddling with is compatible for the poor folks at work who have to use it. So I can't say I have any real opinions on 11 one way or the other. I couldn't really point to one thing that's vastly different or improved.
I guess, from that point of view, 11 feels mostly like it's MS adjusting the OS to better suit their revenue stream, rather than improving workflows for the consumer. Which it is, I suppose.
Help! Our unsustainable behavior of screwing over customers in the name of quarterly profits has finally caught up to us! Turns out there are long term consequences of our behavior, and now Linux can truly go toe-to-toe with Windows on a home desktop!
I upgraded from Windows 11 to EndeavourOS. No regrets, it’s a huge improvement.
Makes me miss windows 7.
I ran vista from release, never had any probmems with it. Admittedly it did help that I ran it on a brand new pc. Does show that the problem wasn't the os but rather their aggressive push to get it on PCs that weren't suitable
How much of this is people not wanting to upgrade vs not being able to upgrade because their PC isn't supported?
I'm a sys admin in the public sector and the hardware requirements of W11 are a great blessing. I couldn't have convinced thousands of workers to switch to Linux and get used to another GUI but this forces it on us because there simply is no money to replace all that hardware. Rolling out Mint clients and between this and mobile operating systems Microsoft is finally losing its monopoly on the OS market.
I have been called by friends, family friends, and their friends to help with this and so many have hardware that is not supported, and some are not able to afford a new PC right now. That's my limited and personal experience about this.
I have reservations about installing Linux Mint/other for these people because I don't have time to help right now and you do need sometimes help if you are slightly tech aware but not enough to be able to troubleshoot yourself or search for right info. For folks who barely touch any settings and just use it for docs + web it's easy, but for others not always.
Microsoft is such an ass for doing this.
This was a really dumb idea to do just before tariffs
You can just bypass those hardware requirements fairly easily. There are a bunch of guides out there.
Here's one from Tom's Hardware. https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
It even shows how to make a install media that doesn't require the checks so you can just install it no issue.
Though fair warning that some of those requirements they have are good for security purposes so your installs may not be as secure without them.
Win 11 is still pretty ass though and bloated to hell. I instead got myself a LTSC version of Win10 instead which will get updates until 2032 or something like that. That gives me enough time to figure out if I want to install Linux or IDK I'll just die before that, either one is fine.
ASTER
I mean... they force to upgrade people to OS with critical SSD issues.
No no no, you have it all wrong. Microsoft said it wasn't their fault!
Please ignore the fact that you can fix the issue by rolling back the windows update that causes it.
Had to use Rufus to even install it on a ThinkPad which works perfectly. Drivers and all.
Maybe they should stop trying to be like Apple. You can’t limit upgrades then complain about no one upgrading.
They're not limiting it because they're worried about performance or drivers.
They're limiting it because they want to force people into SecureBoot, TPM, and CPUs with several remote control management firmware, because this way they're one stop closer to a fully closed down chain from boot to OS which allows for aggressive DRM and no escape from their ecosystem. Just like at how iOS works and the path Android has been going for the last five years.
The fact the PC ecosystem is open is a left over from the origins in the era before capitalism realized that trapping people into their digital landscapes was profitable, and they have been trying everything to make this go away. Microsoft's wet dream is your PC becoming the same as your smart TV: a data harvesting, ad filled generic piece of hardware that can only display what they want you to see.
It's not even about profits, they have all the money and leverage in the world, that's the point of a fiat state mandated and backed currency. It's about control and censorship and brainwashing. They want to make sure you only have a few corporate controlled choices. They want to make sure your children are being brainwashed by their algorithms and the influencers they support with their ad revenue.
The virtual machine I installed windows on to play games with kernel-level anticheat and other such spyware apparently isn't compatible with windows 11. That's a positive for 2 reasons, which are:
10/10 experience, would not give give Windows access to bare metal again.
It convinced me to ditch dual booting and to go full Linux
I just went straight to Mint as I had another PC running W11, which I rarely used. And then when I had to use it, W11 would always force me to download a ton of updates that had no positive effects on the PC. After dealing with this about 5 times, I just converted that W11 PC to Mint too, so I’m 100% Windows free now.
I hope you have a good lamp then
Microsoft has given users fair warning, and said that users can get a year of updates for free but eventually the company will have to face facts and extended support beyond October.
We can’t recall a time where Microsoft has done such a thing but these are extenuating circumstances given that most users just aren’t budging.
WTF is this guy talking about? Far as I can tell this is the Win7 playbook all over again. Looking it up, this was the timeline:
Jan. 13, 2015: Microsoft ended Mainstream Support for Windows 7.
Sept. 6, 2018: Microsoft announced the ESUs for Windows 7. The ESU program is a paid service that provides critical security updates for legacy products for up to three years after Extended Support ends.
August 2019: Microsoft announced a year of free ESUs, but only for select users, including customers with an Enterprise Agreement or Enterprise Agreement Subscription with active Windows 10 Enterprise E5, Microsoft 365 E5, or Microsoft 365 E5 Security subscriptions. This was limited to only Government E5 stock keeping units.
Jan. 14, 2020: Microsoft ended Extended Support for Windows 7.
Jan. 10, 2023: The ESUs reached their end of life on the first Patch Tuesday of 2023.
That's almost a decade of post-end of support updates. If anything, MS confirmed ESU before trying to shut down home user patches this time, so it looks less like terrified backpedalling. And as the linked article itself admits, the data they're reporting on shows a significant number of users still on Win7. The article waves it away as just "too many", but the original report says 8.5%.
Because, as it turns out, the kind of people using Kapersky antivirus software and the number of people who would not upgrade from a 16 year old OS that has lost support half a dozen times over the past half a decade show significant overlap. In the Steam survey right now Win 7 is only 0.07%, for reference.
While we're at it Win 11 is 60% vs 35% for Win 10. For all the headlines when Steam shows Linux growth you don't often hear over here that Win 11 went up by 0.5% and Windows overall went up by 0.36%, although it's worth noting that Windows has been pretty stable between 94 and 96% since the survey started.
I've said it before and I'll keep reality checking it: the Win 10 end of support process has been wildly overhyped, particularly among Linux-friendly circles. It is not meaningfully different to moves out of other "good" versions of Windows and it's not a catastrophic crisis point for MS, for better and worse. They'll keep support up for the people who need it for as long as they're willing to pay and most legacy home users won't even know their old Win10 is unsupported because it'll just keep happily chugging along with all the same malware it already has until something breaks and they have to buy a new laptop with a preinstalled Win11 or 12 or whatever.
The most the Win10 death hype is doing to hurt MS is create a flurry of social media posts that can convince tech savvy, Linux-curious users who were previously held back by lack of gaming support to give user friendly distros a try.
Uh, sorry, we don't allow sane takes here. Get out.
This person with their “logic.” Honestly.
I’m glad I’ve done away with Windows and Word/ office products for a very long time. Good riddance
I use Win11 on my main computer for work and school reasons. I need maximum compatibility and reliability and it has met those goals. Back in the day, I used to use Linux on my old laptops and I dual-booted it on my main PC. It has been awesome seeing how far it has come and I would like to get back into it some day.
That being said, a huge barrier for Linux and prospective new users is the community. The Linux community is highly combative and toxic and it absolutely sours what should (and could!) be a great experience. Almost every interaction I had while troubleshooting had some level of condescending attitude or outright hostility and there were numerous times I was directly insulted for asking for help - the most recent being a couple years ago when I was trying out a distro and had sound driver issues.
I have to say, I've only been using Linux for maybe 2 years now, and my experience regarding the community has been the exact opposite.
Especially on this site, everyone is very kind and helpful.
That is also my experience. People are certainly opinionated which could be interpreted as hostility in some cases, but most people are willing to share and help when someone less knowledgable have gotten stuck with something.
100% this. The Linux community seems very hostile to people trying to learn. The amount of times I've looked something up just to find a thread answered with "learn how to use search" or people just being outright mean to someone who is just figuring the basics out...
The year of the Linux desktop is never until the community gets its toxic shithead problem under control.
Been using Linux for 20 years. Never had this issue. Maybe I just did not notice due to the expectation of people being shitty in general.
Edit: Out of curiosity, what distro caused you this issue, or just all Linux help in general? I am an engineer and it is always people who can't find their ass with both hands who are the most arrogant. I could see this happening on a beginner distro more than some of this obscure shit we use.
What?! Are they not emphasizing that the start menu has moved from the left of the screen to the middle of the screen? Really seems like that alone should hook people.
They should advertise the new feature of not being able to put the task bar on any side of the screen you want! "We're improving your experience by making it worse!"
And no Toolbars on the taskbar anymore.
You forgot to mention the great new start menu feature that makes it spike the CPU when you merely click it!
they did convince me to upgrade to linux mint 22 tho
Yeah, because if I did then in another 5 years it would be the same thing with Windows 12. Then 13. And so on. So I'm ditching Microsoft entirely in October and moving onto Mint.
They allow you to enroll in extended updates so you can get more time to upgrade 🤣
Literally got a full screen pop up in the middle of work reminding me, that I, in fact, can't upgrade to Windows 11. Like no shit, I turned TPM off for that very reason. You'd think Microsoft would expect me to know at this point as this was the upteenth reminder hijacking my entire screen. I'm sure I'll get more of them.
That is such a dumb clickbait title made to be fueled by emotions.
Who are those folks that can't be convinced? Because it sure as hell aren't the businesses who are moving all their Windows 10 PCs over to Windows 11.
Do they mean the consumer users? The ones who would still be on Windows XP if it weren't for Microsoft forcing their updates? Who only update when they get a new computer and postpone every update because they don't care about being on an insecure OS?
The ones who could be convinced already are on Windows 11. The rest Microsoft doesn't care about. Yes, this includes Linux users.
Well, we are talking about half the active PCs still running Windows 10 instead of Windows 11.
That's a lot more than just the few "I don't care"-people.
Instead it consist mainly of the "I don't have the means" people, that don't have the Hardware required to upgrade and also not the money to quickly change that.
Microsoft screwed up here. There simple was no need to demand such harsh hardware requirements and especially no need to enforce them that hard.
I have to firmly disagree - I mean Apple changed their whole cpu setup to force upgrades didn't they...
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Also it is over 10 years old, that's a good run. Has nothing to do with tight ass business owners who are turning to AI and using the money there instead has it?
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The hardware requirements are not that harsh. People simply believe they are. Intel rested on its laurels for 10 years and then people are like, oh I need a new setup my cpu won't run Win 11!
Wait...
Excluding half of the active PCs or so from upgrade due to arbitrary hardware constraints didn't push upgrading?
How can this be??? 😯🫢
It's not "arbitrary" I'd say. It's part of a long term plan to probably push a fully trusted platform. Yes, so they can ID you by hardware etc but also lock down driver installs and maybe even software installs one day.
That's exactly what arbitrary is. It's not for a good reason, it's so they can push bullshit later. The limitations were chosen arbitrarily because they're not real limitations, they're entirely imposed by a Microsoft for their own ends. A non-arbitrary limitation is like minimum graphics card requirements for a game - won't run without it. What do you think arbitrary means?
This is why I hoard old computers
What actually is the hardware requirement here?
First major requirement is the presence of a recent TPM module, which is absolutely not required performance-wise, but only for DRM-reasons (and read that as "Digital Restriction Management").
Second even more arbitrary one is that they excluded all CPUs before at least Coffee Lake generation. Perhaps half of the PC stuff people I know to be running at home is still from the mid-2010s, so practically completely pre-Coffee-Lake.
And the IT infrastructure of the e.g. the German executive government branches is on average probably more in the range of 15 years old. A surprising lot of that isn't even fully switched to Windows 10 yet... (hey, at least we are increasingly migrating away from Telefax...!)
beatings will continue until morale improves
I got Windows 11 just because my work pc was Win 11. I learned where everything got moved. I use Bazzite Linux at home now. Loving it. Learned a lot and I'm still learning. Now I need to learn how to overwrite Windows 11 with an older version without fudging my GRUB (again, I really don't like having to fix that thing)
$10 says a future win10 update includes a killswitch. If it hasn't already
Ten against says they walk it back and keep updating Windows 10 once they get as much corporate upgrade money as they can
Have the not learned anything? In 30 years of windows releases???
To get customers to upgrade, they have to release Windows 12. We only upgrade every other major version, because every other major version is terrible. Including W11.
That every other version thing hasn't been true for a while now. Every version after Windows 7 has been terrible.
I can't help but feel like there is some confirmation bias going on here in these numbers. Someone who still uses Kaspersky after all of the Russian government allegations is probably someone who also doesn't care if they can't update to windows 11 because they don't intend on spending more money for security patches.
For anyone that refuses to downgrade win10 to win11 and still wants to be secure running windows, 0Patch will cover your computer for 25eur/computer/year.
I've never used them, but a security researcher I follow regularly promoted them since they've been doing this for systems for a good while (I think win7 was the first one they did) and are able to apply their micropatches in memory.
Definitely worth a look if you don't want to upgrade to Linux while not downgrading to win11.
Or just get the IoT enterprise edition. Support for many more years straight from MS. Or better yet try Linux.
You can also get extended service updates from Microsoft for at least a year. $30 for up to 15 computers, although there are also a couple of ways to get then free. 1000 bing rewards points, or enabling Backup to sync your settings to OneDrive are supposed to both means to get them that will become available soon.
Read the room, Microsoft.
I literally can't. And I'm not buying new hardware just to make the switch.
I got your upgrade right...
This is one guy you don't see palling about with Donald Trump.
From memory this particular finger was directed at nvidia but I imagine he would accept both our comments.
Win 11 launcher is pure shit.
Hahahahah. "Upgrade."
Funny how Kaspersky thinks what it comes down to are people who are afraid of change, when there's also just people who are also not too happy with the direction Microsoft is taking their OS. And then there's the fact that their stats only come from users who still use Kaspersky, which might be mostly businesses, instead of the average joe, skewing the data.
I moved to a linux-only system for about 5 years now, and it's been great, as a daily-driver and a learning experience as well. Microsoft does so much hand-holding that it's own users are not expected to care about security and privacy.
But they managed to convince people to switch to Linux
Switched to PopOS on my desktop and Mint on the ancient laptop my gf had laying around. No real complaints. Games run fine. Browser runs fine. I had some trouble getting mint installed on the old laptop, but the internet had a solution.
I think the install process is kind of daunting for many users, but once it's going I think the average user won't have any problems. Windows, by contrast, is kind of aggressive with its "GOING TO UPDATE NOW" and "don't you want to use one drive???"
11 was fine until they forced Copilot Vision on everyone. That was the straw for me to finally bail to Linux
They did what now? I have no Copilot features turned on in my PCs, and I actually have a certified Copilot+ laptop.
https://www.theverge.com/news/711797/windows-11-microsoft-ai-features-copilot-vision-launch
I don't care how much Microsoft tries to assure me that a screen scanning and indexing software can be toggled off. I don't want that kind of spyware on my computer at all.
Nah.
It was never fine.
You will be shocked to learn that you can upgrade, for free, to Windows 12. It's called Linux.
I'd go for Lunix, if the software I need for work would I run on it. Thinking about keeping Win 10 on a separate disk, since my laptop is not eligible for Win 11.
not trying to be one of those guys but trying to be helpful. What software for work do you need that won't work on a linux distro?
I mean wine/winetricks is pretty much to the point now where you can simply download an .exe or whatever, double click it, and it'll launch. I do this for several Windows only programs I have and they all work. And the thing with the Linux community is that there's always SOMEONE that will insist on getting the most obscure drivers working on it. I once had this dongle from like the early 2000s that would allow you to plug PSX and PS2 memory cards into it. I thought "yeah I'd like to use this again, no way it'll work on linux" and sure enough someone had actually made the drivers for it. I think it's only me and the guy who made the driver that actually use the thing.
I just can't be fucked. I have win10 on my laptop that I boot once a month to run some windows programs but other then that I don't care about it. The only reason I see myself upgrading is to maybe know how to help my relatives with their windows 11 problems.
Depending on what you're running on it or how you connect it to the Internet or your home network, you're going to be at more and more risk as time goes on.
What's the harm in upgrading now, especially if you barely ever use it?
I hate win 11 and there's a lot of downsides to running it, but they're going to quickly become a minor issue when compared to the risks of running an unpatched OS that is that huge of a target for exploits. Just trust me on that, the risks are going to get more and more real because attackers KNOW there's a huuuuge number of businesses and consumers that just won't upgrade and they're frothing at the mouth to take advantage of the next few years of opportunity.
There's a version of Windows 10 called LTSC (long term servicing channel) that will continue to receive patches, just no new features, that you can stay on for probably the length of time you'll have that laptop. Since you barely use the laptop it's probably perfect for you. You can easily find out how to obtain and activate it for free, securely, with a simple search - I won't link to it here. One of my servers is running it because it's old hardware and runs software that requires windows. It's a really good option for people that don't want to or don't have hardware that supports 11, but want something secure and functional.
The best solution to your relative's Win11 problems is a Linux live boot disc. ;)
If they just sold a very simple lightweight barebone version of Win 10 for 30-40 usd with regular security updates for the next 200 years, they could make so much money for eternity. Just sell those Apps/Widgets as additional paid apps, that is all you need.
But the app/widget spyware is what they want you to run.
True
they will try to force it for people that isnt saavy enough to use another OS,.
I sidestepped the win11 artificial requirements, and things are great.
What bothers me is that I'm getting all this "upgrade to windows 11" crap from other companies, like my antivirus. I get that eset reason to tell me about possible security risks to my computer, but I'd prefer if they give me options for addressing it that don't involve dealing with a new OS, especially the win 11 dumpster fire.
I have windows 11 because it came with a new pc. The damn thing crashed so much it reminded me of bad windows from the old days. Don't get it YET if you don't have to.
Windows vista. Shudders
The only reason I got a Win11 computer at work is that the new box came with Win11 preinstalled.
Most work is still done on an aging Win7 box and my Linux laptop.
I have zero faith anyone on here will have anything nice to say about Win 11. But it is fine, no issues here and never have had any. Here in the UK it is Windows in the workplace or windows, so pointless for me to try and support clients without a Win 10 and a Win 11 box. Win 7 has been gone for years for most. It is also Office everywhere in the workplace too, nothing else gets a look in, with some businesses having a smattering of non Microsoft products. The reality is that plenty of people will happily drop a grand on a new phone but only want to spend like £200 on a business laptop they have to work on, because, well it is only work innit. So many people refusing to spend money on work computing needs and would rather watch the laptop slowly grinding its way through things because they can then blame THEIR poor output on a shit computer
only want to spend like £200 on a business laptop they have to work on, because, well it is only work innit
Sorry I'm confused, what UK workplace requires people to use a laptop but expects them to buy it with their own cash? O.o
Not sure why you’re downvoted as you are mostly correct.
I’m a linux user myself but i work for an msp so i manage corporate windows machines, and they mostly work just fine. But i must admit, when i take over a screen and i see the constant nagging to use a microsoft account, or onedrive, or copilot (granted, when you use Microsoft for corporate use you really have no choice but to use a microsoft account) It does make me glad i use Linux.
And our devices are almost always over $1000 so not exactly cheap machines either :)
I can't wait for what comes first. The claudication and predictable extended support or the wave of malware paralyzing half the world over unsecured devices.
I think the latter is more likely. The former will only occur once MS is compelled by something that will force them into support mode, like a government or a lawsuit.
Microsoft's new OS has never been a concern of mine. I still have a windows XP, Vista, and windows 7 PC's. They all work fine but zero security updates of course. You don't need to upgrade your OS and most people will simply just keep windows 10 instead up buying a new computer.
I'm just going to setup dual boot with linux since i have some modding and custom software that only works on windows.
Oh I thought Windows was discontinued after Vista failed miserably.
At least I haven't used it since then, and it's completely irrelevant to me.
Why others keep using it IDK, must be some kind of masochist tendencies.
I thought Win2K was peak Windows, but I begrudgingly got comfortable with XP (using the classic Windows theme) then Win 7 after they ironed most of Vista's kinks out.
Been on Linux since then.
But it would be unfair to say that masochist tendencies aren't a requirement to be a Linux system owner.
All systems require some level of that. It's just Linux has been rushing towards "less masochism" and Windows even quicker towards "more", and we find ourselves at that sweet spot where they've the same level of requirement.
Frankly, I'd prefer this sweet spot to be more towards "less", so I'm hoping Linux continues its trend.
Linux as my main since 2005, I dual booted for a couple of years to play games, because gaming on Linux was too limited.
Now gaming on Linux is amazing IMO.
But yes every system requires some level of masochism, I guess we could call Windows the OS of choice for the more advanced masochists. 😋
Yea, people don't use windows these days anymore, they just use iOS and Android.
Seriously, no joke, my parents have never actually used a computer. They just have a glorified pocket social media machine basically.
Dunning-kruger effect on full display right here.
I use Linux for almost everything, but I do have some important software that only works on Windows, so my solution is dual booting Windows 10 with a different static IP than the Linux partition, with the Windows IP blocked from the internet in the firewall.