Defediverse

Most defederation isn’t because people are disagreeing though. It’s because the people they’re defederating from are assholes.

OP is a three day old account. They know this, this meme is just them crying about it.
Instance know for trolling and being assholes is eventually defederated
You just don't understand us!
- Lol right? And if you even try to engage it’s constant sealioning, memeing, and dunking.
- To build on this point: I don’t get the whole “anti-echo chamber” thing and this demand we entertain said assholes. We select people to be friends we generally like and agree with. We often don’t associate with people we don’t like or disagree with. Why should our forums be some totally egalitarian social exposure? That’s literally never been the case ever. We read what we want to read. We talk to who we want to talk to. I’m not going to be guilted into listening to some jerk who thinks gay people shouldn’t marry and belong in hell. I don’t want to share a beer with them, I would never invite them to dinner in my home, so why should I have to deal with them living rent free in my mind because I saw some ignorant post of theirs and they called someone a slur? Hell, why should I be forced by some arbitrary, inconsistent moral code to deal with people who are simply disruptive/obnoxious?
  I have plenty of work colleagues and family I disagree with, I read sources I don’t always love. I get plenty of exposure to other ways of thinking and ideas, at least no less than anyone else does. Do I think people can go too far and literally only surround themselves with “yes men” socially? Sure. But come on. How many of us actually spend equal time with people we both agree and disagree ideologically with?
  The only people whining about defederating either don’t understand what it is or are butthurt because people are collectively showing them the door, and there is little they can do about it.
- You mean hexbear, kbin, and lemmygrad?
  I hope so.
Right. If I disagree with someone, I downvote. If people are being an asshole, it’s different.
Generally the assholes also think it’s because people just disagree.
- You asked a question and answered it next sentence!
Even radical left liberals are assholes.

Yes, let's enter discussion with the literal Nazis so we can try to understand them. There might be nuance to their calls for mass genocide.

Fuck off OP.

It's funny how people always use play it like "oh, it's just differing opinions" when what they're actually defending is indefensible malarkey like nazis and tankies. They know if they made a meme saying we should "try to understand" nazis and tankies, they'd be downvoted to oblivion. And so they hide behind a shield of "differing opinions".
These cretins have a right to post nazi and tankie shit on their own instances -- them's the beauty of the fediverse. But I also have a right to not want hate speech, genocide denial, and Hitler/Stalin/Mao simps polluting my feed. It's not mere "differing opinions" when one person's opinion is "Holodomor didn't happen, and if it did, the Ukrainians deserved it" or "Holocaust didn't happen, and if it did, the Jews deserved it" or whatever apologia they wanna peddle.
- It’s funny how people always use play it like “oh, it’s just differing opinions” when what they’re actually defending is indefensible malarkey like nazis and tankies. They know if they made a meme saying we should “try to understand” nazis and tankies, they’d be downvoted to oblivion. And so they hide behind a shield of “differing opinions”.
  There's an actual term for this: Motte and Bailey. One of many hallmarks of disingenuous shitbirds.
- Preaching facts right here friend
  I bloody hate fascist
HiTlEr WaSn'T aLl BaD
- Hitler wasn’t all bad. After all, he did kill Hitler.
I've been successfully reporting troll-accounts and got them banned, I've blocked entire communities (mostly some niche-nsfw communities, so they don't turn up in my local feed on my lemmynsfw.com-account). And I've found most community-moderators reeeeeeaaaaally don't like fascists on their turf and if you see something and report something, most will get the boot.
This meme presents a false choice, defederation is not the only sane reason to choose (because understanding and/or engaging nazis is decidedly not sane).
Once an entire instance is gone though... defederate like there's no tomorrow.
There is a block button. You don't have to scream for daddy Admin every time someone says something stupid. I, for one, want to call them out, not keep everyone from my instance from interacting with them.
- Yes, let's give the Nazis a platform to spew their bullshit. It's entirely so we can laugh at them and completely could not possibly lead to them continuing to propagate their message of hate. /s
  Fuck off. Fuck off as far as anyone has ever fucked off before, then dream the impossible dream and fuck off even further.
- every time someone says something stupid
  Here's a philosophical topic called emergence. Every "one" thing said by an idiot is one thing, but when pretty much every other comment becomes some asshole saying ignorant things it suddenly is something entirely different.
  I saw the very early Internet (mid-80s) and what happened when you gave people benefit of the doubt. There's been no demonstration that anyone has changed. So fuck those stupid assholes, the Internet is vast they can go carve out their own thing. That's the nice thing, they have every tool to make their own LOLverse. But they don't because they don't want to suck each other's dick, they want to be an ass to everyone else. Just as it was the case with talk.*
  Same as it was, same as it ever will be. I for one am glad this time around people are being proactive. It shows that some have actually learned something.
- You are advocating for nazis. Fuck off.
- You forgot the “except for Nazis” part. No one wants more nazis except nazis and they can fuck off.
Right.... So thinking that the Tzar's invasion of Ukraine is unjustified is Nazi shit. Thinking that the Holodomor was a genocide is Nazi shit. Cuz that's what ur tankie buddies called me. This is what OP was referencing to.
- My dude, just today we had Neo-Nazis berating people outside Disney World about the supremacy of the white race and the need to eliminate all LGBTQ people. "Literal Nazi" isn't some coded terminology that takes a PhD in Cryptography to decipher. There are no hidden meanings here.

Fuck that. Defederate all Nazis.

More like de-head-erate all nazis lmao

This post assumes that a meaningful amount of defed instances are caused by simple lack of agreement. Often, it's an orthogonal matter - it boils down to instance A actually understanding something about the userbase of instance B and saying "I'm not dealing with this shit, it'll make the instance worse for its own users". For example: the typical user of B might be disingenuous, or preach immoral prescriptions, behave like a chimp, or be a bloody stupid piece of trash that should've stayed in Reddit to avoid smearing its stupidity everywhere here.

Are instance admins too eager to pull the trigger for defed? Perhaps, in some cases; specially because it handles groups of users instead of individuals. But those cases are better addressed through actual examples, not through a meme talking on generic grounds.

The cool part is, if your instance admin starts doing stuff you don't like, you can super easily just go to a different one, or even go about hosting your own that you control and decide who to federate with
- Well, once they fix the whole "each instance copies the media from other instances automatically" thing. I'd love to self-host a vanity instance if I didn't have to either worry about CSAM or just nuke the entire pict-rs facility via script.
  ...actually I wonder if that's an option on kbin. Even if the Mastodon interoperability is a bit wonky right now I like the platform working with both services on ActivityPub (thus why I'm here).
- Yup. As a side effect: admins that are too eager to pull the trigger might get their own users pissed, and they'll eventually leave. So a successful admin needs to make sure that the defed is the best for his userbase.
Thanks for a cool-headed comment!

Defederating brigaders and trolls is necessary to maintain a healthy community. If your instance is defederated from all major instances, perhaps you should look examine what sort of company you keep.

With that mentality we'll all become beehaw. The cesspool of don't look at me funny.
- What a telling perspective.
- Typical Lemmy.world take

No offense but this is kind of what happens in real life too. Nazi shows up to local bar. Barman or owner doesn't throw them out. Eventually they invite their friends. It winds up being known a Nazi bar. People who don't want to associate with Nazis no longer visit the bar. This is why intolerance of the intolerant is a thing.

The paradox of tolerance.
Tolerance must tolerate all but intolerance of tolerance
- Tolerance is a social contract.
  If you refuse to be bound by it, then you are a direct threat to the contract, and those who follow it, and should be treated as such.
- Yeah, but the difference is that the nazis wouldn't be right or even honest, unlike the ones who oppose bigotry and genocide. You can't tolerate intolerance to death.

Lmao "try and understand them" fuck off, OP. You're not fooling anyone. There's no point trying to understand assholes.

Assholes maybe. Nazis no. There is definitely a point where someone is beyond saving and you need to simply cut them off, and Nazis are far, far beyond that line.

'people posting stuff you consider harmful' is not a simple, black and white issue. Anyone who pretends that allowing all opinions has no consequences is full of shit, anyone who claims that tightly policing opinions has no consequences is full of shit.

Like almost everything in life, you will have to navigate a tenuous balance between these two things and you will never know if you got the balance right. You are just a sack of meat doomed to die.

You might be doomed to die, I'm going to upload my consciousness to a Boston Dynamics Murder Dog 9000.
- Not just managing to live until the inevitable furry genetics era out of spite.
Maybe, maybe not.
We are getting close to massive life extension/ clinical immortality.
- People were saying that about cryogenics.
  Humans have a vast body of knowledge about how things work. It's a shame its dwarfed by the vast body of knowledge we are completely ignorant of.
  Much as scientists managed to be surprised that life had evolved to eat garbage in the pacific garbage patch, it seems some will manage to be surprised that when humans eliminate one source of mortality, another inevitably evolves to take advantage of the ever-growing supply of humans.
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/cZYNADOHhVY?si=Zh_dgcBUU8Z6o1Mr
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

What a simple, stupid argument.

You can’t enter a discussion with somebody who’s just trying to bombard you into submission. OP is wildly ignorant or just somebody sad they’re being defederated on a different account.
Welcome to memes@Lemmy.ml

I think we understand the other side just fine. They're a combination of malignant narcissists and complete idiots.
This post is about leftism not conservatism
- Far left and far right on a venn diagram is a circle.
- This is what the nazis want you to believe lmao
laptop?
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy

Fuck off nazis.

Follow your leader and kill yourselves.

Well said. There is a lively song by the Dead Kennedys that explains with nuance and understanding this same sentiment.

Excellent! It's exactly what the Dem leadership does 85% of the time (10% starting off just as awful as the GOP and 5% of the time actually holding firm on the only just course of action)!

I'm so glad that the comments have (mostly) finally unified in agreement that defederating Nazis and other hideous people is the right move.

We tried every other form of debate on the topic. If people are engaging in a discourse in bad faith in hopes that they will benefit from the publicity, your best option is to ignore them.
- Yup, exactly
I'm not up to date on the drama. Who got defeded?
- I think it's mostly about Hexbear, Exploding heads and lemmygrad.

Yeah, let's try to understand child abuse images /s

Let’s find the middle ground with Nazi’s too!
- I want to stab you in the back 8 times, you don't want to be stabbed at all.
  Let's compromise and I stab you 4 times.
- We can surely work a way to achieve peace for our time!
Wtf? Is that where your brain goes? Like genuinely, seek help.
- So you’re just not aware that that’s been a real problem? I mean, ok you didn’t know, but your uninformed opinion is worthless.

Imagine thinking racism and child porn have arguments worth listening to. Just defed and forget they exist.

But seriously, fuck them tankies.

You can't tolerate nazis or tankies. Bad reasoning altogether. Look at the state the USA is in right now because we decided to tolerate fascists.

Exactly. The cancer may wear a swastika or a hammer-and-sickle. Either way, it's authoritarian cancer.
- You can see what OP is trying to do here though, even with his edits. He's "both sides-ing" it up.
One of those groups is white supremacists and the other wants to stop genociding the global south. That seems like a fine comparison to you?

Only lemmy could make a post about disagreeing with someone's view point about child porn

I'm guessing its about tankies
If it's the defederation BS I'm thinking of it was regarding a specific model for whom they'd already age verified and the one instance admin was simply still not okay with it because they looked too young. Which like, that's their choice as an instance admin, but also that's a pretty kneejerk reaction to defederate and immediately announce the defederation
Wtf? Is that where your brain goes? Like genuinely, seek help.

I don't have the patience to discuss transphobes and I will never, ever, understand them. Just go fuck yourself and then kindly fuck off.

agreed, it's tiring arguing with people who'd rather demonize others than consider questioning whatever youtube rabbit hole they fell down

If the 'thing you dont agree' with is hate speech or shit promotting violence for example that's the only sane option you have lol

Yes. Tolerance should not extend to intolerance, and intolerance should never be a thing we tolerate.
- If it were that simple, then it would be fine.
  But the point is, people just start to label anything that whiffs of a different opinion as "intolerance".
- Nazis/extremists don't respond to rational arguments against their ideology.
- Well whenever regular people go in to their communities they get ridiculed and have their comments removed or even banned, so what's the difference?
- Yeah because normalising fascism in 2016 so that actual nazis came into the light and the mainstream sure helped make them less destructive and made them have less of an echochamber! Oh wait..
- If you have the choice between an eco chamber where 10% of people are nazis and say nazi shit to other nazis and normalizing nazism to the point where mainstream gathering places are full of crazy nazi babble and having 15% nazis I would chose to contain the poison.

Funny how one instance is the one everyone wants to defederate from.

When everyone you meet is an asshole, you are probably the real asshole.
Funny how this works with social media as well.
Currently. Of course in the past it was exploding heads for being Nazis, Lemmygrad for being insufferable tankies, then Burggit for lolicon, now hexbear for being insufferable tankies.
- Heck I think Lemmygrad is more tolerable than Hexbear, by a lot.
people hate getting called out for their terrible opinions
- Lol is that why hexbear is defederating from so many instances?

I was there OP, I was there 3000 years ago before the great renaming, long before the eternal September. Fuck those bitches, defederate and be done with them. Assholes are eternally assholes and giving them an inch is just inviting them to take a mile.

Works for me. I don't negotiate with terrorists.

Damned right. Fuck nazis and tankies. Fuck the bigots and fuck the authoritarian Putin-lovers.

Defed is cheaper than consulting a lawyer.

I disagree with someone, better call a lawyer! Lmfao

Fascists and child porn spammers may have rights somewhere, but not in my world.

- This person was just as intolerant as a Nazi themselves and didn’t even realize it.
  No they weren't, this is what Popper defines as intolerance of the second degree. Taken from the German wiki page because this aspect is better explained there than in the English version (translated with deepl):
  In intolerant people, Popper distinguished two categories:
  intolerance of the first degree: intolerant of a person's customs because they are foreign.
  intolerance of the second degree: intolerant of a person's customs because they are intolerant and dangerous.
  Popper therefore rejected universal tolerance:
  "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unrestricted tolerance leads with necessity to the disappearance of tolerance. For if we extend unrestricted tolerance even to the intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant social order against the onslaughts of intolerance, then the tolerant will be destroyed and tolerance with them."
  However, since we as human beings are not capable of knowing the true motives of our counterparts, a fundamental, unsolvable problem now arises: It is difficult for an outsider to distinguish whether a person who expresses intolerance belongs to the first or second degree.
  In other words the intolerance against Nazis is justified because they are the ones being intolerant in the first place, and sometimes this is the only way to fight them on that.
  I'll grant that this is disregarding your premise of Nazis not existing, but to be quite honest if I may, that's a pretty stupid premise. The Nazis did exist, they were the poster child for intolerance of the first degree, and their ideology is far from being as dead as they are.
- You ever convert a Nazi with words? You certainly haven't convinced me that a Nazi puncher and a Nazi are the same.

Defederation is becoming the Lemmy meme.

I think being on lemmy does not in any way oblige a user to listen to everyone all the time. A lot of people will just come here for a good time. And for the freedom of speech activists: freedom of speech also involves other peoples freedom not to want to listen.

Moreover, I think most people who want to defederate with certain instances don’t necessarily have a problem with different world views, but have a problem with the tone being set by a small percentage of the users of said instances. Unfortunately, only a small percentage is needed to create a general vibe.

I hope it will be possible for individual users to block entire instances very soon, this way this whole debate will become obsolete. Personally, I can’t wait for it (the debate to become obsolete, not blocking instances necessarily)

Also freedom of speech is between your government and you. Your government can't censor speech, private companies, individuals, organizations, ect, can censor your speech or censor themselves from hearing it. All rights are only between an individual and their government.
- I really can't fathom why people cry about "freedom of speech" when something privately owned decides not to include what they consider fucking shit. Freedom of speech is the fact the government cannot stop you from saying what you want. NOTHING ELSE. People paying to run their own instances do not owe you anything
- All rights are only between an individual and their government
  Different rights have different scopes. Some rights, like the right to live, are between everyone. Some others, like the right to receive a purchased product, are only between buyer and seller. Freedom of speech "just happens" to be between individual and government, in countries where it's even a right.
The blocking instances thing won't necessarily solve this problem.
You might be able to block posts from an instance but not comments or votes.
- Blocking votes is not a concern, but it’s the comment toxicity that is (in my opinion) making this place lose something very special.

Go back to whichever 14 year old infested, fake communist, edgelord hideout you crawled out of.

If someone says, "you just can't handle that my views are different than your views", they are either a Nazi, or a tankie.

if they are a tankie just spam the word tankie

Not ITT, OP commenting on their own post. 3 day old account posting just to stir up shit. Obvious plant is obvious

Whew !memes sure does have a lot of faciest apologia.

Trust me there's a lot worse instances for it out there
Lemmygrad and Hexbear come immediately to mind
Leftism =/= fascism young one
- I mean there's Leftism and then there's "North Korea is the only real democracy" and while most Leftists aren't of the latter type you'd be naive to think the ones who are don't exist.

It's intriguing how everyone that views themselves as moderates/liberals forget (or are unacquainted with it) about the paradox of tolerance.

Tolerance implies everyone has a right to express their ideas and you want that. You want everything out in the open, so you can pick at it, dismantle it and render it pitiful, ridiculous and useless.

You want the intolerant crying out loud that you are intolerant as that means you are doing the right thing. The intolerant want silence, forced, while want noise, anger, tension.

Remember that anything worthwhile needs to be fought for. Don't regret being vocal and harsh towards intolerance.

That is a pretty ironic comment because that is not what the paradox of tolerance is at all. The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance needs to be suppressed for tolerance to exist, since tolerance can't exist alongside intolerance.
The paradox is that tolerance needs to be intolerant towards intolerance in order for a tolerant society to exist, literally the exact opposite of what you wrote.
- And in order to do that you need intolerants to speak up, so that their rethoric can dismantled.
  Not a hard concept to grasp.

Yes. If they want to do that shit they can do it somewhere else. Hell, take it to Facebook.

I literally just left sh.itjust.works because they federated with hexbear.

I'd rather an instance defederate with a toxic instance than have to switch instances in order to avoid said toxic instance.

But apparently sh.itjust.works doesn't care about it's users wants despite the majority wanting to defederate.

- They're already isolated in their own echo chambers. Have you ever actually tried arguing with these people? You might as well argue with a religious person about how their faith is bullshit. They don't listen they just scream and throw a tantrum while insulting you the whole time.
Just change instances. Who tf cares if you switch or not lol.
- he did you dummy

Dude this is a social media, not the senate...

I think they're mainly quick to defederate because they don't want to burn out their mods.

Conflict and drama means lots of work for them so I can see it being an easy choice. Personally I'm happy my instance isn't too trigger happy with it

Thanks for thoughtful opinion, I'll bear that in mind

3rd day on the instance that defeds less than every other I've been on before. Feeling good.
- So what’s the problem then?

I wouldnt mind the first kind if they didnt have a playbook to defute every single one of your points in a manipulative way. I really don't give a shit what you support as long as it doesn't directly involve hate or oppression, and as long as you don't try to shove it down others throats or try to insult people with opposing views every chance you get.
I imagine a lot of people over im hexbear are chill. I hope so at least. However, every encounter ive had with them, feels like the conservatives over on reddit. They try to 'own' you with loaded talking points, and bad faith arguements.
- "Dunking on libs" was the entire point of federating with other instances. Their users, including an admin, made that explicitly clear when they started getting backlash.
People way into politics and pedophiles always causing trouble on the internet

Someone doesn't like the movies you like? Red button

Someone has questionable opinions on economic policies? Green button

Someone starts talking about how (((they))) own the banks and run the world? Blue button

Wow I got red and blue mixed up before this edit FUCK me

- I fucking did, kill me now please

Kindness doesn’t work with people who don’t respect your right to exist

Is there a c like subredditdrama?

I can't keep up with who is defeding from who

What's cool about the fediverse is that we get to choose.

Do I want to be in an instance that federates with everyone, good and bad?

Pros:

More content.
Potentially insightful debate.

Cons:

More negativity.
Potentially giving a platform to extremists.

Or do I want to be in an instance that defederates on a whim?

Pros:

More positive content.
Taking a strong stance against extremism.

Cons:

Less content.
Potentially missing insightful debate.

Personally, debate I've had that was insightful was generally in good faith to begin with, and would be allowed on platforms like Beehaw, so I don't see much use for "anything goes" kinds of platforms. Additionally, I'm not always in the mood for debate. I can just switch between different instances depending on my mood.

I haven't seen much in the way of actual debate, more 'soviets good west bad, da comrade!'
There's nothing to be gained from arguing with crazies and naive college students. Had my fill of those types on reddit. Now I point and laugh until I get too annoyed and I'll find a new instance
- They were never here to debate anyway, their only goal is to "dunk on libs" and spread authoritarian propaganda. They're crazy.
- Agreed. I haven't been on an instance that federates with them yet and I'd like to keep it that way.

Everyone in here but me seems to know which defeds this is about.

Pretty much all of them, it's just missing a button of "break the law".

Holy fuck, it seems like there are only 2 extreme opposite sides and both are full of shit, clowns and morons. Why can't we just have some middle ground?

I'd hit yellow, the ignore button.

Wise words, seriously.

I'm going to defederate with this post

Literally no different than every other echo chamber people cultivate in life.

Lmao looks like you struck a nerve with the redditors OP

Defederate literally everyone. Defederate servers because you don't like the color of the admin's hair. My lemmy app supports multiple accounts, defederation has the tiniest possible impact on my user experience and is good for you as an instance owner. Defederate. Defederate. God Almighty, defederate. That's wtf the option is there for.

Defederate everyone, then we can get rid of some code in Lemmy's codebase, no need for all this instance federation garbage.
Wtf?

I've been living under a rock for the past month.

Isn't dbzer0 defederated from a bunch? That kinda sucks.

losing

Honestly everyone wants to bitch about they're their and there meanwhile people keep saying loose like it doesn't break every single rule of vowel pronunciation

@ Lemmy.world

Stop right there criminal scum. Pay the court a defederation. Your posts are now forfeit.

I just block users or communities if they become problematic. I enjoy being exposed to different opinions but I'm not interested in childish BS or low effort, intentionally contrarian posts

you are completely free to discuss with tankies all you want, even if instances defederate (for example, you could make an account on their instance)

Blue nazi

Just ignore them

Silence equates to acceptance. We must not tolerate the intolerant.
- We have more important things to do in life, we don't waste time on internet :D

The funniest part is when two instances federate, but the userbases of both instances want to defederate with each other immediately afterwards lol.

Lemmy.ml should be sent to purgatory.

There are exactly zero people "calling everyone nazis", this is not a real problem

452 (and counting) defederates

Nazi is a communist term for delegitimizing a legitimate sovereign nation. Cope with it. Churchill said so.