Why does "violent drug addicts with severe mental illness" mean somehow they shouldn't be helped anyways?
Wild claim, considering Musk is one of the most violent drug addicts who has ever lived.
I wonder what we should call a violent drug addict, convicted of inciting insurrection, living in housing paid for by the public ?
He is so fucking incoherent from all the ketamine it isn't funny.
Homeless: without a home.
Weird how he’s lying again. I’ve been there, and I can promise this fuckwit that not having a roof or food in the middle of winter in a city where the stoplights literally freeze is not some kind of illusion. That being prodded away from a public bench in sub-zero temperatures so you can shamble a few blocks whilst the sleep in your eyes freezes, over and over for weeks, so you can’t get more than an hour sleep at a time for months, isn’t the holiday he thinks it is.
Jesus christ, I bob my head to the surface for this? It’s like he’s not even trying to be relatable now.
Let's say, for sake of argument, that Elon is correct. Should we not be helping people with severe mental illness?
I can’t speak for Elon (and will not defend him) but Kyle (from Secular Talk) is dramatically underestimating the problem by tossing out the $20 billion figure. You can’t just throw a bunch of money at a person with severe mental illnesses and addictions and just expect them to be okay.
The state of California has spent over $24 billion on homelessness since 2019 yet the number of homeless people in the state has grown by 20%. Obviously they aren’t spending the money wisely in a manner that would maximize reduction of homelessness, but Kyle didn’t specify how the money should be spent either. Perhaps that’s actually the hard problem: how do you spend the money in the way that would be most effective?
Wait weren't they doing that already?
If not, where was all that money going?
Gonna need you to define "that" in "that money.” If you mean government programs, much of those were defunded back in the Reagan admin. While institutions back then did need broad changes, their removal without a suitable replacement vastly increased the homelessness issue.
Remember, they are saying what would need to be true to justify what they plan to do. This should be read as Elon declaring intent to put homeless people in camps.
TIL Elon Musk is homeless.
Not allowing billionaires to exist would end homelessness
tax the rich!
You know, even if what he's saying is half true. We HAD systems to help those mentally ill drug addicts and they got gutted. Making them, wait for it, Homeless! you prick.
the US in total is a right-wing place that thinks that "hard work" is the way of life, and anybody who doesn't adhere to that is a "drug-addict" or a psychopath.
Which is wildly ironic because billionaires don’t actually work.
*working and grifting
where grifting essentially means forcing your subordinates to work harder
Also half of all homeless people are foster kids who aged out of the system. They don't have a family to fall back on.
having been homeless…
the fuck is he talking about and who the fuck does he think he's fooling
Himself and his other techbro friends that couch surfed for a while, aka violent drug addicts with severe mental health issues.
Just more of the same from his class. Wants everyone to believe in a meritocracy, because that means he's rely great, and the people whose lifeblood he drained to get where he is aren't victims - they're just inferior. They wouldn't be where they are if they were superior like him.
Probably a guillotine wouldn't even work on him, he's so superior. Hypothetically.
@Confidant6198
"secular talk" is wrong here.Musk is an absolute psychopath without any empathy. He doesn't need any excuse to sleep at night knowing all the harm he did to the world.
By destroying USAID, this devil just threw millions of people into starvation.
I'd say destroying USAID is the one good thing they did. Long term mind you. I won't deny the short term effects of such an instant cutoff to these programs.
But USAID is primarily used to disrupt the economic systems of nations that the US exploits for cheap labor.
I'd quote the revolutionary Thomas Sankara
Those who come with wheat, millet, corn or milk, they are not helping us. Those who really want to help us can give us ploughs, tractors, fertilizers, insecticides, watering cans, drills and dams. That is how we would define food aid.
The US primarily uses its food aid to disrupt these nations from being self sustainable and force their industry into a single crop that is most beneficial for US capitalist to export.
So, while the shorterm is bad. The disconnection of these exploitative relationships are good.
Obviously it would be better if these programs were slowly removed. But continuing them for the next 4 years would be worse then ending them drastically.
Also, mind you, I don't think Trump even realizes why these programs exist to benefit the US exploitation of the third world. I think he sees them simply as "foreign aid". So his own ignorance of them actually ends up destroying an important part of US Imperialism by mistake.
Removing the exploitative relationships that the US has with third world countries in the form of "foreign aid" is good. It's just that (1) Trump actually thinks these benefit these nations. Which they do not. And (2) the well intentioned liberals thinks the same as Trump does. So we end up with this weird state where both are wrong but the policy is actually good long term.
Again, there will absolutely be problems as these dependencies are cut of so quickly. But no more than the continued exploitation in the long term would result in.
At Thomas Sankara said. These direct food injections are not helpful. They are a way that capitalist use to direct the economy of third world nations towards dependency on America Imperialism. Ending them is good for these nations. Even if there are struggles when they end.
Self determination and self sustainability have been robbed from these nations by USAID for decades.
@LeninOnAPrayer
No. Its a genocide.
Ending so much funds so abruptly is criminal.
Millions are starving right now.
Thousands of people will die of Malaria and aids. Thousands of children will get polio and will be crippled for life.
That's a disaster
What do you know that HUD doesn’t?
https://aah-inc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/whomeless.pdf
It's amazing that a man who does enough ket to bring down a racehorse even dares to use the phrase "drug addict" as an insult.
Not unusual for addicts to displace blame onto the people around them in order to justify their addictions.
The difference between Musk, Thiel, et al and your average American junkie is simply their line of credit. They can keep taking experimental intoxicants, safe in the knowledge their friends will loan them another $2M the next time they wrap their McLauren around a stop sign.
A billionaire is the equivalent of a person sitting in a cafeteria who bought every piece of food in the restaurant kitchen and doesn't want to share any of it with the thousand people sitting around him even though he'll never be able to eat all the food they bought.
Owning and controlling so much wealth that you'll never be able to enjoy everything you have in a lifetime isn't a success or a sign of intelligence .... it's a mental illness. Especially when all that wealth and control could mean the life or death of thousands or millions of people everywhere.
There are exceptions. Warren Buffet (as an example) has given away a large fraction of his wealth, and pledged/planned to give 99% of it over his lifetime (he is 94). It's a sane strategy to let his shares appreciate and “maximize” his charity.
For a billionaire, he lives modestly and speaks reasonably. He has a sanely sized house. His kids are getting an inheritance, but not a stupidly large one.
Look, I want to tax the shit out of billionaires too, I just object to blanket labeling any group as mentally ill. You know, like Musk did in OP's post.
You're like the guy in the cafeteria who stands at the far end of the billionaire's table and tell everyone in the cafeteria that the billionaire will donate and give away his sandwiches when he leaves and that he isn't that bad because he only eats a bit of the food and saves the rest because he will give it away soon.
One of the talking points in South Africa goes like this:
The "homeless" black people that live in corrugated metal slums all have mansions that were stolen from white people and given to them by the government when apartheid ended.
They choose to live in slums to work in the cities, and go back to their mansions when they're not working. Alternatively, they don't live at their mansions because they are too lazy/dumb to actually take care of the property.Several times in the US I've been told that people flying a sign are actually rich from all the money they are given. Totally absurd but people believe it. Mansions they don't live in is on another level though
Hahaha that's gold. It's kind of hard for me to accept anybody really believes that. Feels like some disingenuous conviction there or deliberately not examining the statement because they know on at least one level it's too completely illogical to be true but then again there are some people who've had such serious distortions to their reasoning over time that they're not even lying anymore when they claim to believe this stuff.
Depressing fact: Most of the homeless people you see acting all crazy and talking to themselves all the time behaved normally when they started being homeless. It's spending years in complete isolation, being constantly ignored by everyone around you and having no one to talk to that makes you act like this.
I wouldn’t jump to that though. Most working homeless live out of a car or couch surf, while not doing that.
Having both been homeless for a year (as in, on the streets, migrating from shelter to shelter) and also having worked for a homeless shelter system...
Yeah, most homeless either live in their cars, or couch surf, or jump from motel to motel... until their car gets repo'd, or their hosts kick them out, or they run out of money for motels.
Then, they're on the streets, like I was.
A couple years of that, even if you totally stay away from hard drugs as I did, is more traumatizing than what most soldiers go through, with the exception of an actual, repeated, stop loss style front line combat deployment where they're regularly in actual combat.
You see your friends die in your hands or right in front of you from an OD or a drive by or a mugging, you never know who you can trust, you know you may always, at any time, be assaulted or dispossesed, lose all your ids and bank cards, know that now you're sleeping outside in a blizzard tonight because you can't limp back to th shelter in time to make curfew, can't call for help because your phone was broken or stolen.
All the while, every 'normal' person just thinks you are disgusting, literally will not even look at you, much less speak to you.
I am astoundingly lucky I lasted a year. I have PTSD now, recurring night terrors, and I am still doing PT to recover from getting regularly assaulted and walking about 2000 miles in one year... its a miracle I wasn't stabbed, and I was maybe 100 feet away from eating lead in a drive by.
Took me a solid year of not being homeless to ... just be able to have an in person conversation with anyone, without having an anxiety attack, deescalation strategy and escape route pre planned.
Women on the street have it even worse.
I remember going into a trap house at one point to get one out. I will not explain to you what they had done to her.
To add into that, most homeless are just normal people that fell on hard times, you won't see them cause they don't want to be a bother. You see the crazies because... Well they're crazy. Gigantic assholes like musk assume that since you see crazy homeless people wandering outside, then obviously ALL homeless people are crazy violent lunatics. He is the smartest person in the world after all.
where does he even get that idea? i never heard people refer to Elon as homeless.
Not sure about now, but there was a time period where he owned no properties and lived in the houses of friends. Staying in someone's fourth home is not a hardship, but technically he didn't have a home.
I don't believe it, and even if it's true it wasn't out of necessity. he probably found it convenient to mooch off people like he always does one way or another as a lifelong parasite. he was born into immense wealth. literally the only thing he's ever done is buy companies. that's his entire career.
He's a violent drug addict, way more dangerous and destructive than any homeless person could be.
I'm surprised he chose to express his point in this manner. Unless this is an expression of humanity from Mr Musk that we're so otherwise unaccustomed to that it's hard to recognise, then I assume he wants to persuade people to have less empathy or sympathy for homeless people, not more. This statement, taken at face value would seem to suggest that contrary to what some may think, homeless people are facing significant challenges not of their own making that have contributed directly to their circumstances.
I'm going to guess that's not how he meant it
Liquidate Musk
Elon’s very familiar with the condition of homeless drug addicts.
Whether someone is a drug addict with severe mental illness is irrelevant to whether they're homeless or not.
Do they have somewhere to live that has a permanent address? No? Then they're homeless and need help.
Obviously there's a bit of nuance with things like ProxyAddress where homeless people can have permanent addresses but still be homeless, but the gist of my point is the same! Do they have a home or not?
Bet Elon he can't beat homelessness with 19 billions.
Bro will do it just to prove you wrong
So the mentally ill deserve to be left to rot in the streets? Why else have a social safety net, if not for them?
The word Elon is a propaganda word it is a lie. It is actually Felon, which is a violent drug addict with mental illness.
take it from him
Alright I'll bite, even if Hairplug Himmler is right (and let's be perfectly clear, he's not).
Why wouldn't we as Americans want to help our fellow citizens overcome drug use, treat mental illness, and help rehabilitation efforts on their behalf?
ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE "VIOLENT" and "on the street". Wouldn't we want to help them get off the streets?
Wouldn't that make us safer, happier, healthier, and dare I say... Great Again? Wouldn't that protect citizens and police officers alike at a lower cost than incarceration? (Spoiler alert it would, but there's no private for profit companies offering this service).
Wouldn't these people become tax payers? Employees contributing to society? Become future homebuyers and start a family?
These empathy lacking neo-fascist clowns can't stop punching down to those less fortunate (while claiming the lords name in vain) and I can't wait for the day we get the opportunity to match their empathy as they head to prison (preferably one in El Salvador).
If they are violent and on the streets won't that boost sales of vehicles with "rock proof" windows? like the one that muskrat is trying to sell?
Think of the economy, think of the consumer demand for items to defend themselves with.
Why wouldn’t we as Americans want to help our fellow citizens overcome drug use, treat mental illness, and help rehabilitation efforts on their behalf?
It's kind of a two-part question, that.
- Do we want to spend the money to get fellow citizens off drugs and treat their mental illnesses?
That's a pretty easy question if you have a soul: Yes.
- If those fellow citizens refuse any and all help because they have a fundamental mistrust of the system. What do we do?
That's the more difficult question. Forcing them to get treatment breaches their human rights and only stokes further mistrust in the system. Leaving them just leaves them open to exploitation and doesn't make their lives better.
Homes are easy, it's all the support that comes with it that's difficult, especially if the person you're trying to help either refuses to engage or actively fights you every step of the way.
Absolutely, and thank you for your reply. Learning and expansion of ideas and thoughts only comes from good conversation and discourse. That's what makes this such a complex and difficult issue.
There is an inevitability of homelessness in a country is unavoidable, yes. Just like the inevitable need for criminal justice programs to detain, deter, and rehabilitate those who break the law.
No argument from me on the facts, there WILL be homelessness and crime in any society. (This is for my sunshine and rainbows friend up top also).
So let's figure out how much that SHOULD be:
https://www.greaterchange.co.uk/post/which-country-handles-homelessness-the-best
Finland currently has a homelessness rate of .06% (2023) of their population. So let's say that's the baseline when you give people a fair shot, benefits, and treat them with care, and the remaining of those people that won't take help when offered.
The United States has a rate THREE times that at .19% homelessness. Despite having a GDP output, 83 times as large as the US.
Since I went to public school, percentages make me woozy so let's put it in whole numbers.
636,500 fellow citizens are homeless in the US (.19%).
If we adopted Finland's (already proved 35+ year plan) we could get that down to 201,000 over time. Heck if it takes 35 years as well, at least we're helping them.
That's 435,500 fellow citizens (Or a city the size of Cincinnati) that are sleeping on the street tonight, so that ONE MAN Elon Musk can pay less taxes.
Fellow Americans, until we vote these billionaires out of office and tax them (oh I don't know, at least as much as you and I pay) we are either ignoring the issue or complicit and I for one don't want to be either.
TL;DR: This is just one example why we should lift up those below us, and not be pessimistic about our fellow man.
Most of our homeless want a fair shot, mental health counseling, and rehabilitation.
We need to advocate for them and help them just like if we were reading this sleeping on the street.
Says the homeless illegal.immigrant from a apartheid
Projection is the process of displacing one’s feelings onto a different person, animal, or object. The term is most commonly used to describe defensive projection—attributing one’s own unacceptable urges to another.
Psychology Today is another corpo shit hole that avoids paying taxes in the US. Article writers are verified in the loosest sense of the word. Please take psychology today with a grain of salt when used as a resource.
Ok.
its malignant forms, it is a defense mechanism in which the ego defends itself against disowned and highly negative parts of the self by denying their existence in themselves and attributing them to others, breeding misunderstanding and causing interpersonal damage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Better?
Also I'm not sure why I should care that psychology today does not pay taxes in your country when your country is putting tarrifs on every other country in the world.
Compulsive lying and Ketamine abuse are the only things Elon knows anything about.
Respect to Kyle. Dude started off in the Atheist channel days of YouTube and didn't fall down the gamer gate MRA pipeline like most of them did. That was such a right wing cash grab that so many channels grifted towards.
Then he continued with good left adjacent commentary on most issues and stayed true to his moral compass. Didn't fall for the right wing narratives that TYT and other similar channels had during post COVID. He stayed consistent and didn't grift to the right for a bigger audience.
I disagree with a bit of what he has said over the years. I disagree with him on a lot of "big picture" stuff. But absolute respect to his consistency. I'm pretty sure he's still entirely user funded still (no sponsors etc).
It's refreshing to have watched him on and off for a decade and hes been consistently on the correct side of issues. Its rare to see out of a political commentator.
Been watching him off and on for a decade now, it is nice to see how consistent he's stayed, and you're right he is entirely user funded and takes great pride in it.
Yep. Glad to hear that's still true. It's so nice to see. A complete opposite of a lot of people that I use to love. Ethan Klein being the worst and most recent example.
He's just getting ahead of all that homelessness he and his orange friend are about to institute.
In most cases, the word “genius” is a lie. It’s usually a propaganda word for egomaniacal, ketamine-addicted sociopaths.
'but if they aren't hungry and homeless where will their motivation to become professionals and have children come from?' they are actually this fucking stupid.
Remind me: why do we want mentally-ill drug addicts on our streets again?
I have noticed a trend of people who think working with the homeless is gonna look like a hallmark card and are shocked and appalled when they get called slurs by a homeless diabetic amputee. Its easy for them to come to the conclusion that these people are homeless because they're assholes. They're right in the sense that most of the more pleasant people never really wind up completely homeless, they can usually find a couch to crash on and a friend's shower to use until they find a new or better job.
But it's also this cycle where having your head shoved back under repeatedly eventually makes you unpleasant so yeah eventually once you start factoring all that trauma you do wind up with somebody who's paranoid, possibly even psychotic related to drug use (tf else are they gonna do with their time? It's not like they're gonna join a pickleball league, and nobody is gonna hire somebody who never showers or has clean clothes, and you need a shitton of calories going into your body to work labor and you can't work labor at all if being unable to afford your metformin got your legs amputated).
So I meet people who volunteer or even come to do paid work in human services and they're like wow I'm helping these people and they cuss me out and yell racial and gendered slurs at me when we're out of turkey sandwiches and I'm just like first of all, learn to appreciate ✨️The Art of The Roast✨️; half the shit these people say is a) true and b) funny asF. And second of all, I know damn well nobody told you to come work in this field for high pay and low stress so we can tell people all we want that we deserve more pay and more staffing and more resources but we all know that ain't coming any time soon so until then if your plan is to sit around complaining then do us all a favor and just leave because you're stressing the rest of us out and we have work to do.
his post is factually incorrect, of course.
https://adcare.com/addiction-demographics/homeless-population/
"homeless" is a term used to describe someone who does not live inside a domicile, 40-60% of all homeless people have and hold down jobs.
There's two types of homeless people. Temporary or chronically. The percentage of chronically homeless who are drug addicts, severely mentally ill, or both (self medication) is around 60-80 (this can vary largely by area).
That's not to say that drug addicts and severely mentally ill people don't need help, but it's like people want to pretend that they don't exist because they make addressing the homeless issue way more complicated, because at a certain point you have to talk about involuntarily committing people to mental asylums.
