Don't need therapy? Got money for sympathy?

Everyone can benefit from a therapist and everyone can benefit from a loving, caring partner.

Who knew?

It definitely does not need to be one or the other. Oftentimes therapy could help in the relationship department considerably. Deep hurt is hard to get through alone, yet I hope more and more people understand there is help out there.
If relationships are a two way street, and one person is hurting enough to affect their role within it all there should be no shame in reaching out in that way. It could help a lot. It's a shame there's still so much stigma around therapy.
- I dont think that stigma is going to get any better any time soon (at least in the US). The past year has given me significantly less trust that anything medical remains private; i have no trust that things said in confidence will not be weaponized against me by the current government. There have already been cases of states demanding medical records for pregnancy, abortion, and transgender records, and texas actually got their hands on some records IIRC.
- I was implying that both are beneficials.
Wait wait wait... You're telling me people need love? Pfft I don't believe it.
- I can guarantee there are at least a few people out there who don't actually need love in adulthood to live happy and fulfilling lives.
- There is a well-known study about this: All You Need Is Love (Martin et al., 1967)
I don't think the OP in the screenshot is describing a loving partnership though - the emotional support described is very much one sided.
- There is no reason to assume that
Not when they see relationships as transactional

I’m a man and I just need a big hairy and muscular chest to lay my head on the end of a very tough day.

I have no idea what this guy Alex is on about.

- He said a hairy and muscular chest! That chest is smooth!
Life’s hard when your husband has a smooth chest 😔

So, uh, if this is what men need at the end of the day, what does this guy think women need at the end of their day? Or is it only men "fighting battles" in their day-to-day lives? Because this surely implies that either men are needlessly making things harder for themselves if women somehow manage to avoid daily battles, or that women don't need comfort after their daily battles... and wouldn't that make men, who do need that help, the weaker sex?

See, youre actually missing one key component here. They dont think of women as people. Just baby machines made to please men.
- It's true. As soon as I'm out of sight of my husband I dock like a Roomba and wait until he returns so I can wipe away his tears and give him a foot rub.
  /s
All women have to do is iron his shirt and make sure there's food on the table when he gets in. He's out in the real world doing manly things to bring home the bacon.
I know right! It’s all “but men bruh” but who takes care of women?
I know themselves do, because no one will. But somehow that’s accepted, and men taking care of themselves and stop exploiting women isn’t?

Also I guess gay men don't exist. But would not be surprised someone with such a bad take also has bad ideas about queerness

You are correct. People with these attitudes would prefer gay men to not exist.

I think a modern dysfunction of intergender relationship is an increase in transactional intimacy. Whether it's dating, sex, or emotional, I think a lot of men are paying for their intimacy.

There is a disconnect between people noticing that love is not unconditional, and thinking love is completely transactional.
Of course if love is never useful for one of the participating parties involved, then this/their love will fade. But people interpret this fact in the way that love should always be exactly as useful for all parties involved all the time.
But in reality, it should be fine if sometimes maybe one side is more selfish, less giving, sometimes the other side. Sometimes one side gives more emotional support, but the other side is more physically caring. And so on. Love doesn't need to be perfectly equal, it just needs to make all parties involved better than if they were without the love.
But when you're very competitive and selfish, and it's hard to quantify each person's usefulness to each other, it's easy to always think that what you give is more than what someone else gives. Constantly having arguments about how you think things should be.
It can easily be a case of personal perception of a relationship, at least my generation was constantly told their only value in life is utilitarian, when that's your mind set you're going to assume that's the only value you have in relationships as well. Again, therapy would help a lot so men can see that their partners do value them outside of their assigned value culture.
- I agree with what you and @Azzu @Azzu@lemm.ee are saying, in the vein that traditional gender roles have done more harm than good.
  I think the culture is shifting but there's also a weird backlash to the change, like the toxic Masculinity of Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson, or the Trad Wife movement, or the rise of Only Fans and other pay-to-play parasitic economies.
  I think a certain subgroup of men are willing to give money in exchange for intimacy as a way to exercise power in that dynamic, as if it lessens their vulnerability.
  Relationships should of course be mutually beneficial, and therefore are inherently transactional. But I also find it ironic that whether men paying for online dating apps to meet women, paying for drinks, paying for sex, or paying for therapy, it's all hitting their wallets.
I'm not positive you mean this, but you're implying men shouldn't pay for their intimacy? You think it should be free? Everyone pays, but in healthy relationship the "payment" is emotional intimacy, acts of service, words of affection etc. No one is walking up to a stranger and banging them without giving anything. Heck even in sex alone there's "transactions." During foreplay, I get you a little turned on, you get me a little turned on, I escalate, you escalate.
- I mean literal payment, with money.

"all the battles he fought that day"

jesus, stop romanticizing having to deal with life dude. guess what, everyone does.

what are the odds that this guy lost his shit at the man vs bear question.

Obviously the man is better than the bear - all he wants from the woman in the woods is for her to live a life of servitude to him as his psuedo mommy, wife, child producer and lover, because he has epic Viking battles he has to deal with…. of taking the trash to the curb, and waiting in traffic to get to work, because therapy is too expensive, or feminine?
Lmao
That part got me too. All the battles? Your fucking tps reports are battles? The person at dunkin got your order wrong, is that another battle for the day?
- This is that meme where the shriveled up dude says "Stop giving me your toughest battles" and Jesus just replies with something like "you literally just have to put the shopping cart back when you're done"

Women aren't paid enough to be both your bangmaid and your therapist.

How about if you're their bangmaid and therapist right back? Sounds like a good deal to me
- Women only want one thing and it's fucking disgusting.

As a guy, when I was younger, I jumped from relationship to relationship looking for that exact thing. You know what I got for my trouble? Nothing.

So, during my college years, I spent time by myself, learning how to get by and be okay with surviving without relying on anyone else. It was a farce of course because I was in school, not going to work, but it was close enough.

I got into the workforce and all of the things I forced myself to learn to be independent from literally everyone, was the pivot point where I was able to stabilize my life and start dating.

After a while I knew I didn't want someone who needed me. I wanted someone who 100% could do everything that they needed to do on their own, but wanted me around anyways.

I found what I was looking for. I put a ring on it.

I don't worry when she goes out in her vehicle that she bought with her own money for her own purposes, that she's going to go find someone "better" because neither of us care about what's "better" than whatever else. I don't have to worry that she'll call and say she needs money because x, y, or z. She has her own money she made, that she can spend however she wants.

We split household costs, we enjoy eachother company and we value that we aren't relied on by the other for everything. It goes both ways.

As things have gone, the line between "mine" and "hers" has blurred to the point that, unless it's a high dollar value item, it's just ours. Because bothering to remember who paid for what is a waste of time and effort. Cars, yes, anything else? Probably not.

Going from "men need intimacy" to "manchild wants a mommy" is toxic masculinity on the second guy's part.

The first poster isn't describing two way intimacy though. They are describing a mommy.
- They don't say anything about it being one-sided though. Could be worded better, but let's not assume the worst.
What about only reading the last part of the description instead of the whole thing to make a snap judgment? Is that toxic masculinity? Or is it just reframing it for your own ends, which is gender neutral?
- So what was that because you just went off on someone who made a valid point.
  Why don't we all have a bit of nuance here? Wanting to be in a loving relationship doesn't mean you need therapy. Obviously.
  Some people don't need to be in therapy and some people do need to be in therapy and the people who do need to be in therapy should be in therapy regardless of their gender. Making overly broad statements like pretty much both of these two are doing is entirely unhelpful.
  What is also unhelpful is being rude and snarky.
Firstly, a disclaimer...while I shouldn't really have to say this given the language I've used, I will anyway: I am by no means talking about ALL men.
The problem is that this is not an unfounded stereotype, made evident by the fact that the discrepancy between how household and childcare tasks are divided between partners (heterosexual, at least) is still a significant and prevalent issue.
Subconsciously or otherwise, this sadly rings true with a lot of men, who, at least in part, want—and sometimes expect—a woman who will adopt every role a mother would take. That is, taking care of most of the chores/household management/childcare duties, and without protest. Even when, say, both of them work full-time jobs.
Too many of these men either 1. do not know how to do simple household tasks (and are not unlikely to have adopted learned helplessness as a result), 2. deliberately delay or fuck up chores to get their partner to get frustrated and give up on asking for help altogether, or 3. simply don't notice how much more work their partner is doing than they are.
I acknowledge that a lot of boys aren't taught how to cook do chores as much as girls are, and those who haven't been were failed by the adults in their life in that regard. It's not a valid excuse once you're an adult, though.
Ooo that's kind of a good point too.
It was definitely dunking for internet points.

All the battles you fought that day? Unless you are on the front line in Ukraine you should be able to find a more chill lifestyle.

Because the use of one takes away an unhealthy need for the other.

If you dont want to both provide and receive caring, nurturing, and intimacy, as needed in a relationship, stay single.

That is the entire point. "to have and to hold" isn't a nearly universal marriage vow for nothing, even if it's a lie when said by many of either sex.

Sadly, as with virtually everything in society, relationships and marriage after a lovely but brief enlightened period are regressing back to a transactional business arrangement and not something based in mutual love, warts and all. Sucks to suck.

Eh…. Of all the people I know in relationships, none of them are transactional like you’re saying and they all want to be supported. So, unless my area of the world is different, this may just be a vocal minority that you’re running into online.
- I'm married myself, but have noticed a fairly recent "reality" dating television proclivity rotting my significant other's brain with regards to this.
  I'm concerned for her because she never used to be into such drivel and it is changing her opinions on the dynamics of marital life. Those shows are the gospel of making relationships about material gain and tit for tat.
- If anything that kind of transactional relationship is less likely now then in the past since divorce is now more socially acceptable.
Sadly, as with virtually everything in society, relationships and marriage after a lovely but brief enlightened period are regressing back to a transactional business arrangement and not something based in mutual love, warts and all. Sucks to suck.
There definitely seems to be this feeling online that everyone has that everything is now terrible and everything was wonderful and roses in the past. But that simply is not true. It isn't worse now than it was 20 years ago, and it's a lot better now than it was 50 years ago. I really do not understand why people seem to go around believing everything is falling apart.
people think they need stuff, we are programmed to think we need x things, which people describe as "the grass is greener on the other side". if you think a girlfreind will help you, maybe it will, but i seen more people more people dissapointed in a realthship then worth it (not saying they are unhappy).

Why is he genderizing therapy? Do men not have brains?

I'm a man. I don't need therapy because I don't want to. That's different. I need therapy, I just don't want to.

There are men (and entire cultures) that think having psychical problems is a weakness, makes you a weak man and most fear being weak, what ironically makes them weak.
Women, on the other hand, are seen as the weak gender by default, so there it's less of a problem.
- what ironically makes them weak.
  Exactly. It's funny like calling my hotrod engine weak for needing oil changes.

Twitter is where discourse goes to die

We all need a caring person to nurture and restore our energy. This is a fundamental part of loving someone. Your parents do it when you're young but that does not mean you stop needing it.

Both of these posters are toxic in different ways.

"I dont need therapy, I just need to have a woman that reminds me of my mother and will fuck me"

Ok let me go, men, stop fighting battles no one asked you to, your lame ass warrior complex undermines your potential for kindness.

but i’m fighting in the name of kindness, i’m so confused right now
- I hearby ask you to fight whatever battles you want, as long as you're not a dick to anyone about it. Hopefully this frees up any confusion.
- you gotta do loving in the name of fightness....? I think
  wait

“All the battles he fought that day” sir your target audience mostly works in air conditioned offices with a coffee machine five feet from their desks, calm down.

Honey, can you come nurture and restore my energy? I've been sending emails all day.

I don't like legitimizing Freud cause like all his ideas that permeated popular culture are total bull but holy shit, paging Dr Freud.

He's next tweet... "Use my promo code to join Andrew Tates Hustlers Academy."

Men can always care for each other and stop expecting women to do all the work.

Yeah this is something I’ve been trying to walk the talk about.
I joined an adults sports league and have a few friends I call almost daily on rotation (whether they want it or not lol) and I’ve started feeling a lot more fulfilled and less anxious.
Most of those friends expect my calls now, and I get questioned if I can’t make it to a practice or game. It feels good to have your presence desired, whether it’s in a romantic or platonic relationship. There’s an epidemic of men who think that that void can only be filled with a lover.
- I wish everyone would follow your example
Or we can just produce fewer of them.

My dude has a point. Dudes need to figure out how to talk about their issues rather than expecting whatever woman is nearest to be their mom.

Yeah. It's good to see men's support groups form here and there off the internet. Some real support that isn't baiting men into radical views.

Who needs therapy when you can foist off all of your emotional needs on one person?

Mother figure? So partners aren't supposed to be caring?

I think both parties are wrong here. Mothers do not need to be feminine or soft either. What the fuck does that even mean. FeMiNiNe sOFt women!!! It's just coded language for submissive, self-sacrificing domestic slave.
- Soft
  Feels good to cuddle? Idk I'm a wizard.

I wonder if there's a market for male-centric therapy. As in "I've got a loada wood that needs chopping. Come chop wood with me and we'll talk about stuff". You know, give 'em something to do with their hands while they talk. Obviously you probably couldn't do that with someone who's known for being aggressive and has a criminal record, but someone who has trouble talking about their feelings and doesn't feel comfortable just sitting in a room or on a Teams call and would rather feel like they're accomplishing something.

This seems like a remarkably good idea but I still wouldn't gender it. Say it's "hands on therapy for physically oriented people" or something. I'm sure there are plenty of non-male humans who would benefit.
Hell, it might even work for my girlfriend who will go to insane lengths to avoid sitting down and having a conversation about anything personal. If it works, I owe you an upvote or something.
- It definitely works. Get into some hard work with another person - sweat, scream, and get bloody together. They'll start talking deep shit soon enough (and so will you).
- I'm a non-human who would absolutely love to be building shit while talking during therapy instead of using a fidget toy while avoiding eye contact because looking at someone looking at me and being vulnerable at the same time is NOT IT for me (yet).
- And it already exists, called occupational therapy or ergotherapy.
I just go out drinking with my buds and we vent about shit. There's rarely any solutions but that's because the shit we're venting about is the world falling apart, not anything we can fix. But it does help a little to get it out of our system.
That's called triangulation! Focusing on a different task makes it easier to have vulnerable conversations.
Yeah, it does exist. Usually in group settings. But not usually with sharp objects.
I don't want to imagine what the insurance would be on a service like this. Customers chopping their own wood. That's an OSHA violation waiting to happen.
- Does OSHA even still exist?
- Probably no worse than the bars where you can throw axes.
Like the boy scouts for adults?

I need therapy. I also need intimacy. Since I cannot find intimacy, I am trying to make do with therapy.

I don't think therapy is a particularly good substitute for having loved ones you can be intimate with. Nor is relationships necessarily tools for learning to deal with every dysfunction that one could have.

It's the exact inverse; therapy is a tool for learning how to deal with your deficiencies, while relationships are there for having loved ones you can be intimate with

tbh in the world we live in i think we all need a bit of therapy. But relying on your partner exclusively for that is a bad idea in the long run. They can offer their support but at the end of the day they can't fix you and they definitely don't have the skills to guide you.

Well it depends entirely on why you need therapy doesn't it.
One of the biggest problems and causes of depression is loneliness, if that was the case being in a relationship would actually help with that.
That's true, but the response is just as bad. Couples are supposed to support each other. Hell, friends are supposed to support each other. This is a basic part of humanity.

it's insane how jreg (youtuber) gave me the most solid understanding of relationships that was so obvious that I couldn't believe we didn't understand already, it's a mixture of them all, it's not a partner or a good friend group or parents, it's to be able to have them all, a therapist can be a guiding figure a mentor and another node to release stress learn from mistakes and overall a decent person to be in contact with even if your thoughts were in control and you were in a good state of mind.

What a pleasant surprise among the defensive takes. Thank you for sharing it.
The most problematic situation seems to be when not having access to all of them and trying to push your partner into fulfilling all of these roles. To be your partner, parent and a friend(sometimes a therapist even). Sure it's nice of them if they can, but it shouldn't be their daily responsibility.
- This is the best description of the issue I've seen.

Yeah this interaction is really weird. I don't agree with the second guys statement at all. Wanting to be in a relationship is a perfectly normal thing to want and isn't mummy issues.
- Where does the woman go when she needs to be nurtured and have her batteries restored? Men aren't the only ones fighting battles out there. In a healthy relationship, you're supporting each other.
  Also, not everybody is looking for a woman who is "soft" or "feminine". Maybe I want somebody who's a rough-and-tumble badass. I have a feeling that kind of a person would be a better support for my personality.
  It's also worth noting...you shouldn't be using your partner as your therapist. If you're constantly trauma-dumping on somebody, it isn't fair to them, and it isn't fair to you, because they aren't trained in how to help you like a therapist is. Sure, cry on their shoulder when life is hard and all that, but if you're having mental health problems, go see somebody who's board-certified.

Or, y know, both? Most people need intimacy, but also if you have a problem, resolving it in therapy is a responsible and good option and we should stop the mental health stigma.

¿Por qué no los dos?

Someone who would lay down in bed with me and hold me while I cry would be a tremendous help to my mental health, but a therapist would be real nice, too. Too bad it's a five-month wait to get in to see one around here.

If you thought women growing up with uncaring fathers was bad, wait till you meet men who grew up with uncaring mothers.

I mean he described therapy

Men need friends, not bros.

Especially when your partner is a vengeful mother figure that physically, emotionally, and spiritually destroys you over several years until you finally leave it all behind and recognize how empty your life has been and how much self blame was gaslit and manipulated out of you.

It’s a shame that in some cultures simple friendships men, women, mixed are not accompanied by physical touch too, like a hug. And also being able to talk openly about the struggles, like us women do with our friends. You get a lot from a friend’s hug or them listening to you.
Maybe these men should stop seeing women as objects and relationships and transactions

testosterone is the world's most dangerous chemical.

Why?
I am struggling to deal with j suicidal thoughts about how awful i must be because I am a man. Like I sometimes think there needs to be a brutal cleansing.
- You don't owe anyone anything. You did not choose to be born, you were thrust into existence and it is unfair to you to feel like you ought to "get out of everyone's way" via suicide. The world put you here, not you. Even if you earnestly think you are awful because you are a man.
  Further you almost certainly aren't awful, because you feel empathy for the rest of the world because you want to avoid being a burden to them. Awful people don't give a shit if they hurt other people or the world.
  A side note, if you really think because you are a man specifically that you are awful: You might unironically just want to transition into a woman.
- There are plenty of examples of wonderful men, go find one and make friends with him. Unless you mistreated women constantly, why would you think, by default, that your are awful?
That's not on testosterone. At most it plays a part in it, but this behavior is the result of a patriarchal society. (Solely) blaming testosterone defends shitheels like this one, and diminishes people with testosterone-dominated bodies that are different
It is literally the devil.
I hate it. Thanks for making the first reaction anger cunt chemical.
We use to jokingly say if my mom had had testosterone the world would have been in trouble lmao

meh, I just need my cat.

🥺

offer free therapy from people passionate about helping others, instead of charging them an arm and a leg for an hour of one persons narrow minded view of the world. i think more people would get therapy if that were the case.

until then, its okay to get it if you can afford it, or rely on friends, and family when you need to.

however on a personal note, nothing in my life has removed the burden of existence and replaced it with univeral connection, joy, and love for others and all living things like magic mushrooms have.

and on another personal note, therapy cannot change the external world, just how you choose to react to it. and especially these days, introspection and pills cannot save you from fascism, climate change, WW3, and poverty. among other things. it may just change your perspective on it.

throwing therapy into someones face as the only answer is a small minded view of reality. its not the answer for everyone. but it does have value in certain specific situations, for certain, specific people.

Depending on the point of view, each one of us is a certain specific person, in a specific situation.
Edit: i hear you on the magic mushrooms. Actually a silly name, for such peace of mind bringing mushrooms. It is also not just a "high" feeling. The things you think about, under the influence, stay with you after the experience.
And, for me at least, i came out of every experience, with lasting sane decisions. It made me a calmer person, but also much more active physically, by embracing exercises.
Is difficult to explain and since it's a mushroom, not a human produced drug with the intention to get you high, who knows what real benefits it brings with it?
I read somewhere, that every mushroom experience actually rewires some of your neurons.

I can't afford therapy. And I desperately need it.

There should be options - crisis numbers and volunteer work around it. For free.
You can find some help over using a search engine 💪

Trauma therapy helped me a lot, speak for yourself. CBT is still over applied in my opinion, though, when other therapies are appropriate.
- And don't ask for CBT from a hooker unless you know what your getting into.
- CBT is often used to get you to gaslight yourself, which is more effective than getting others to do it for you.
  Kinda snarky, kinda serious on this comment
That's because we don't really understand how brains work. Psychology is just barely coming out of the dark ages. You're going to run into a lot of psychologists who'll want to do the mental equivalent of balancing your humors or sticking leeches on you.

To all those saying, "but why shouldn't men want to be cared for?"

This meme plays into a narrative the makes women subservient.

It suggests that only men "battle", and that being a man and "battling" entities them to care by women.

No where in this is acknowledgement that women have burdens too, and that all people benefit from care.

No where in this is any hint of reciprocity. If anything, it implies that the "joy" of taking care of "her man" should be enough.

No. Walk the fuck on. Having a penis doesn't entitle you to one-sided care.

The other thing implied by this - that women should 'naturally' be able to fix 'her man'. But if a woman in broken? Oof - 'she has Daddy issues' and better fix herself, right?

And what if a woman tries to fix 'her man' and fails? Oh look - isnt that convenient - society just took all his faults and made them her failures. Wow! Who wouldn't want to sign up for that??

And just look at that success rate. You can count up the number of women killed by intimate partners and see how great this plan is.

Society really needs to get past this childish narrative that tells men they should expect to find a manic pixie dream girl who lives only to make him happy. Men make fun of girls for believing in Prince Charming, but this is truly the more destructive fairy tale.

Men need a loving relationship and therapy.

Look at the user name, it's a truthful joke.

vomit

Almost all people have some need (depending on the definition) for physical intimacy. Not just men.

That said, people saying men need a therapist aren't saying a therapist would help men and a therapist would authentically be in their best self interest (unless you are extremely patronizing). They're saying a therapist would fix them, because men need fixing. Its not out of some genuine desire to make men happier.

What we really need to say is men need re-education. Because it is primarily men that are fucking up the world.

Maybe liberals need to take a pro suicide stance on men? Starting in school ideally to make it easy. Because of we are inherently bad what other choice is there when you are not welcome in any liberal group? This is kind of sarcasm. But I really am out of ideas. When rhe left won't see you as any different then musknor tate regardless of their views then there is no hope.
- I'm not a liberal. I'm also a man myself. I know you were just being a bit of an antagonistic shitposter, but I would not advocate for suicide obviously. But I've already proposed a fairly radical solution of just having fewer male babies in the first place, though as a solution to a different problem: men are romantically lonely, women are not romantically lonely.

I would say that, conditional to the man having a partner, intimacy is a hell of a lot more accessible than therapy. Provided that intimacy is not rationed or made conditional, this could provide more lasting and more timely healing than therapy as well.

With that said, we really need to normalize men seeking therapy. There are far too many men where the conditions above are not met, and so could and would benefit more from therapy than intimacy.

Yeah my fucking battle of testing software and doing deep dives on bugs.

Uhm, having someone care for you is not a "pathological mother figure".

People need this. Men need this. Asking for care is the most normal thing a person can do.

And then if something is actually wrong, there is a therapist.

Why don’t they go ask for care from other men and stop exploiting women for it?
- Why do you consider such relationships inherently exploitative? Healthy relationships include women caring about men, and vice versa, in various ways.
  Besides, cultural norms and stereotypes commonly prevent men from seeking emotional support and being vulnerable around other men. While it can be said that some men have built this system to begin with, those are not necessarily the same men who struggle from it, and this conflict is hard to resolve. Also, romantic relationships commonly offer the highest level of openness about someone's feelings, and most couples are hetero, hence, women interacting with men.