Costco gets a nasty Christmas present and ends the year terribly (workers victory)

I'm super pro-union, and strongly support the unionization of the Norfolk workers, but I should acknowledge that this looks like a pretty reasonable response from Costco that's far cry from the whiny, hostile, threatening responses we're seeing from the likes of Amazon and Tesla. (absent any other information about the situation).

If you don't want your employees to unionise, you should give them great conditions, minimising the benefit of unionization, then not sook about it if they unionize anyway - which is exactly what appears to be happening here.

That said, I'm open to being corrected.

I only know marginally more but I think you're right.
Costco is known for being a good corporate citizen to its members and employees.
- Costco at least tries to appear to be the pinnacle of "just" Capitalism, with generous benefits and wages in comparison to the market and intentionally low margins for profit, reinvesting everything else.
  This response is 100% expected, though never trust a corpo to be willingly benign. Corpos will always do what's best for those with the power to influence their direction.
It's better, but still childish. "We're not angry, we're disappointed".
If you are really taking care of your employees, you don't have to worry about a union, and would support your employees to form one.
- To be fair, the disappointment is directed at themselves, not the employees. If they'd said they were disappointed in the employees for unionising then I would agree with you, but this to me at least reads like "we haven't been doing enough and need to do better".
- Not necessarily, I would agree with you in a lot of cases but there is such a thing as a bad union org.
Sure it sounds reasonable because if they took the mask off there would be an epidemic of other stores realizing they need to unionize too. It doesn't matter how disarming upper management acts because ultimately the role of the capitalist to employees is that of an oppressor. At least with a union you have a VERY limited means of pushing back against that dynamic.
It might seem like a good statement on the surface, but the whole idea of "We don't think our workers need a union because we're already willing to listen" is just a blatant lie. A company that truly wants it's labor to feel heard would want an employee union so that they can communicate and negotiate in an honest, straight forward manner. Telling employees that they shouldn't need a union is a manipulation tactic.
- What I was saying was more along the lines of "Make things so good your employees won't see a benefit to unionisation" than "We already listen". One is outcomes focused, the other vaguely 'effort' focused, and easy to lie about.
  Company-run unions tend to be pointless - at best, acting as a bit of an advisory body that'll back down the moment push comes to shove.

This doesn't read like seething to me.

Like, it's great that people are unionizing, because even if there's the best possible relationship between businesses and labor, the union still makes that relationship more equitable.
But that doesn't mean that the creation of the union has to be viewed as hostility between labor and business.

I'll be interested to see if their good reputation holds up to pressure,but as of right now I haven't heard anything that makes me want disbelieve their statement.

But that doesn’t mean that the creation of the union has to be viewed as hostility between labor and business.
Of course it does. The IWW isn’t a yellow union. It understands that this is a class war, not a class “collaboration.” The capitalists certainly think it’s a class war.
- My question would be "what's the win condition"?
  A business that tangibly treats labor better is better than one that does not.
  A union lessens the power imbalance, but it's still better to start from a place where cooperation is possible.
  So if the relationship must be hostile, what's the win condition?
- Hell, labor and business is already a hostile relationship even without a union, which is why unions exist. Any boss that doesn't act as if it's class war is a chump who won't be able to get funding from traditional institutions (banks, shareholders, etc).

I feel Ike most people don't realize how Costco workers are treated which is important context for this letter. Costco literally looks like a union job on its surface, good pay, full benefits, good time off accrual rates. Like yeah i understand what the letter is saying. They already treat their workers as good as most unions are able to negotiate, I'd feel a little upset about it too if i was in that leadership. Not because they joined a union but because they felt like they needed to. Would make me wonder if there were poor conditions i wasn't aware of.

They couldn’t have worded this letter any better. It puts the responsibility on them (leadership) it says they did not think it was necessary but obviously they have some blind spots. It acknowledges the value of unions, and in no way demonizes them or the employees.
- Welcome to Costco we love you.
  -Honestly that's the most direct corporate statement I've seen so far, it feels real.
Costco does have that ethos, but it's still essentially a benevolent dictatorship without the power dynamic of a union
- It’s also a bit of a farce, Costco hide behind their ethos while handing out no more than 3% raises a year and that’s for exceptional work. They just paid out a dividend to shareholders too
Nah, this time is exactly the right time to unionize. This way the company does not have to fight the Union and they can cooperate properly.
However, if under new management the company where to ever change her tune..........
- Exactly. Why wait until your employer is hostile to try to unionize? It'll just be 10x harder then. If things are good this union will help make sure it stays that way.
It does put it into perspective. Call me cynical or realistic, but something in me saw this as a nice trap for union-considerers. "Just talk about how you feel with your manager" -> at will fired.
I literally thought they were a union job.
Probably promise of higher wages, their other benes are already on point.

I think this is a classy response. I'd love to see more about the fight if one took place .

It definitely is, but taking their statement at face value, I still don't think they should feel bad. The only way to find out what your employees want and need is for them to unionize. Unless labor is organized on its own terms, labor cannot really express itself to corporate leadership. And not everything workers want or need is selfish; believe it or not, most workers are proud of the work they do, and want the company to thrive for everyone - ownership, management, labor, customers, environment. Ownership only thinks of ownership, management only exists to enforce ownership dictates. A fuller picture which includes the rest will result in a strong and stable business that has a long, long future.
Unions are good for everyone.
Me too, seems like there is more to this story.

Echoing others, Costco is a solid employer and I actually believe their sentiment.

HOWEVER

The difference between union and non-union is the difference between asking your employer pretty please to treat you well and telling your employer how you will accept being treated.

Even if the union yields no improvements whatsoever for the workers, it's worth it just to have that express and clear leveling of the playing field.

Hey, serious question here, I own a small business with 8 employees. All profits for the business go back to employee bonuses / incentives. I pay myself $1/year and $0 in profit distributions. We cover medical benefits.
It seems like the sentiment amongst Lemmy is to unionize the employees, which I'm fine with, but am I allowed to pay their union dues?
My only qualm is it means less profit sharing for them, but if it improves morale to have that representation, I'm all for it. Ultimately, it is what they want.
I'm union dumb. I want to do right by the employees. But I also don't want to get screwed to their detriment (e.g. Personnel Concepts, fuck that company).
In before anyone asks, I work contract gigs in a completely separate industry to pay my own bills. I own this business to create jobs and be part of the community.
- There will always be an underlying adversarial relationship between employers and employees in a traditional capitalist framework.
  Unions help even the playing field and are very important, but if you truly are interested in supporting the rights of your workers as much as possible, you must accept the fact that they cannot remain "your" workers.
  What does that mean for you and your business? You should talk to your employees and the relevant orgs in your state/city about beginning the transition into a worker-owned co-op.
  Depending on the business structure, state and local laws, and the industry you serve, the pathway to that is complicated. Look up worker cooperatives in your state and find organizations that specialize in helping businesses navigate that transition. There are legal, monetary, ethical, logistical, and emotional concerns that are all critical to address and understand, but it can be done. Businesses far larger than yours have successfully made the transition.
  That would be my advice. But aside from that ultimate goal, unionize your workplace and place as much power in the hands of your employees as possible. Let them decide how they want to structure pay, dues, etc, that's the whole point of worker empowerment.
- I think it gets murky quickly if you pay their dues as the employer- if you're funding the union there's a pretty clear conflict of interest. To me the clearest way to address this would be to offer a stipend without earmarking it so they can fund the union (or not) at their own discretion.
  Another option would be to just formalize it as an ESOP, thereby erasing the distinction between employee and employer and effectively obviating the need for a union in the first place.

Idk how you read that letter and interpret it as "seething". I read nothing of the sort.

When something challenges some people's world views, the only response they can muster is to imagine whoever is involved must be lying through their teeth.

I understand where the Costco management is coming from, since I've heard they do, in fact, strive in putting their employees with great pay and benefits. But they got to realize that employees need to unionize so that their good pay and benefits continue in the future. There are no guarantees that Costco will continue to do so unless they have unions.

The best any Capitalist firm can offer to its employees is a "benevolent" dictatorship. Unions provide an actual change to the underlying power dynamic, which is why capitalist firms oppose them so much.

Super happy for the workers in Norfolk, let's keep this kind of collective action rolling forward!

Based on what I've heard about Costco, they're literally the only company that I could read this letter and think "yeah, they're probably genuine about their sentiment".

Unionizing is ALWAYS a good idea, just in case, but as far as companies go, Costco has always gone out of its way to make sure their people are taken care of.

https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/case-study/the-costco-model

The above is a study from the University of Texas. The conclusion seems to be that yes...it's still retail, with all the usual crap that comes with it, but the company actually tries to mitigate it as much as possible.

For real. The kicker for me is that I recognize almost every worker at my local Costco. They aren't just new faces every week. I worked retail for years and I've never seen a retail place retain so many people for so long.
- I'm a retail manager and I would love to be a manager for Costco.
  Half my stress comes from trying to fight head office on behalf of my staff while being the guy that gets yelled at by both sides.
  Managers aren't all on the companies side. We're just stuck in the middle.
- I've been going to the same Costco for 8 years. And I've been saying hi to Jim for 8 years.

Costco has a reputation for treating workers well and compensating fairly, union or not.

That said, it's still great news for those workers as they have greater assurance and say on their working conditions and no longer need to rely on the goodwill of Costco's management because who knows if or when financial headwinds will change their practices.

Yeah, some of the upper echelon even got chewed out and threatened to never raise the price of a hot dog. While I see them as a company that treats their employees well, and customers fairly, I do see the C-suite and their teams generally as capable of changing all that to squeeze out more money.
That said, time will tell; if they don't pull a starbucks and start closing down businesses, then they aren't anti-union. Then again, unlike Starbucks, Costco typically buys the land and builds massive warehouses... that cant normally be said for Starbucks's investment in their stores; they typically rent in a shopping center.

People credulously taking corporate speak at face value. You have to understand that this letter was crafted by a committee that included whichever anti-union consulting firms they have on retainer. The persona that a corporation projects is created and maintained by its public relations machine. It’s Edward Bernays-level propaganda to manipulate their employees, their customers, the government, and the public.

I used to work at Costco, although only for a summer.

Every time I shared my experience working at Costco to friends and family, they were quick to jump to Costco's defense, as if I was insulting a dead relative. Countless times, if not every single time, I heard "it's probably only the Costco you worked at".

For comparison, I also worked at Walmart, and my experience there was neutral, but I've had some people try to dig for bad experiences. There were some bad experiences, but at the end of the day, when I clocked out, I was done working (unlike Costco).

Don't put too much trust into these corporations.

at the end of the day, when I clocked out, I was done working (unlike Costco).
Could you expand on this a little, please? Were they expecting you to work off the clock, were they calling you at home for some reason, were they expecting you to keep open availability?
I think experiences like yours really is what is covered in Costco management's disappointment in this letter.
The Teamsters got an excellent national agreement raising wage standards across the organization, and makes it seem Costco hasn't kept up. On the other hand, the odd pressure tactic, bit of favoritism, or dirty trick store managers pull get people motivated to join unions as well.
Consumers lacking class consciousness, siding with their favorite brands over workers. smdh.
- Yeah, even the most worker friendly business can have blind spots. Hell, if Unions themselves can have blind spots, then anything with a motive of profit is going to have FAR more, no matter what they do or say
  Always be pro union, always trust the workers that a business is abusive, never trust the business
- You can support unions across the board and still be able to commend Costco on the good it does for its employees.
  Anyone who shits wholesale on the company (pun intended) is missing the point.
  Respectfully, I think that's where the downvotes are coming from.
- More downvotes. Am I the only one here actually holding a Red Card?

I'm quite surprised because it's been one of the things the company has been proud of for a long time, offering conditions so good that people didn't feel the need to unionize as they felt they were treated fairly... As someone else said it really just looks like an honest answer...

As others in this thread have stated, Costco is probably the only big company whose word I'd trust on this letter. Never heard anything bad about them and I genuinely believe their continued success is hedged entirely on their relationship with customers and employees.

But the "if you don't feel like we care enough, talk to a manager" always sounds bad because if lower management is the issue then that's a non-answer. Would be better to have a "reach out anonymously at this inbox" or something, otherwise they may as well tell it to the union rep.

Just last night I watched the season 1 finale to Superstore and the "joke" message they were making was exactly what this letter is saying. Seriously guys you don't need a union because we care! 🤣

That's literally every single company's talking points.

We're not anti-union, but...

I mean, if working for Costco is anything like what I've heard I wouldn't expect the union to change very much. Even if things are good there I think unionizing is a good idea to make sure it stays that way. Or maybe this specific location had some problems?

Anyway, seems like a pretty tame letter and of course they have to say something about it. But I support whatever the workers decide to do next.

Sincerely, Some uninformed speculative internet commenter.

Yeah, Costco has always been hated by Wall Street for how well it treats its workers, and how well they're compensated. They're always dinged for being able to send more profits to shareholders than they do, because they treat their workers too well.

They are pretty much the only large company that would send a letter like this that I would believe. Good for Norfolk, but no one should lump Costco in with, say, Walmart, as far as big box retailers go. They really do cleave to a higher ethical standard.

Unions are, to employers, what HR is to employees.

If employers need to have HR, it's only natural that employees must have a union

If the union won’t make things better for your employees, then it won’t make anything worse for you, either.

There's overhead to unions that someone has to pay for.
- Yes, dues. If the employees voted to form a union and pay the dues associated with that union, that's their choice. I've never heard of an employer paying to support a labor union.
whomp whomp whomp!

Well, now there's collective bargaining to ensure employees are treated fairly. You don't join a union for the good times, you join it during the good times to help in the bad times.

Time will tell if management stands behind what they've said in this letter. I hope it does, but greed is greed and I don't survive on hope.

"If you have questions about this, talk to your manager"

... so we can fire your ass

Do you know anyone that works at a Costco?

Good news. Let's see it accelerate and expand to other stores and competitors

when are they doing Walmart

Walmart is Mr. Burns to Costco's Homer Simpson.
I wonder if Walmart holds towns hostages. Like they destroyed small mom and pop shops so towns are reliant on Walmart for nearly everything. And so the moment they smell a union, they rough up the town government threatening to destroy them and so a whole chain of events happen.
- I try my best to avoid this store unless they have a specific item I want there and its too much money or not available anywhere else.

How could this happen?! We're FAMILY here!

Is this comm always like this, with people not even having a Wikipedia-level familiarity with syndicalism or the IWW?

Probably not. It's pretty high up on the top for the last 6 hours across Lemmy instances so there are likely people who aren't really looking at where they are.
- Oh. I never click on “All”, and kinda forgot it was even a thing!