Anon is a fact checker

Anon conflates the desire for a more involved and expanded social life with just having sex, thereby perfectly explaining their lack of a more involved and expanded social life.

That’s definitely a decent chunk of what people in the media who talk about the ‘male loneliness epidemic’ are talking about, though. I don’t think I’ve read a single article about it that doesn’t devote time to how little sex young men allegedly aren’t having.

Yea everyone knows as soon as you have sex once you never feel lonely again.

Seems like a lot of incels really believe it though
- Indeed, which may actually be the source of their problems, or at least one of them.
- The irony is that there's a chance it might be true.
  Sex doesn't necessarily mean very much. But, they've convinced themselves it's massively important. Being a virgin defines them, and it's proof that their life is a failure. If they can lose their virginity, they might be able to convince themselves that they're now in a new category. If they can get away from the various toxic influences, maybe they can become more likeable people, and be less lonely as a result.
I mean... I've had sex and I never feel lonely.
Could also be because I'm severely introverted and probably autistic though...

This entire post is precisely the problem. The fact that everyone here is conflating sex with mental health support is the reason why men's mental health isn't being taken seriously.

Men are not socialized to, and even actively discouraged from being emotionally vulnerable with each other.

We won't need men doing more fucking, we need men to sit down together and talk about their depression, and we need other men to be supportive and not downplay these conversations with sexist or homophobic slurs.

Exactly what I interpreted from this too. Posting a bunch of stats on sex and marriage as if they're a remedy for loneliness ignores the fact that people absolutely can feel lonely while having both.
Men do absolutely need to be better with each other but women do perpetuate this also.
The modern concept of masculinity is completely broken. Long ago it used to be about being a protector, now it's about anger, dominance, power, emotional dysregulation, resource hoarding (most of which provide little benefit to society at large).
A co-worker keept telling me he knows what's wrong with me and that I just need to fuck. I so wanted to strangle him, because I'd imagine that would make you less focused.
Another keeps insisting I grab (a married co-worker) by the pussy.
- Does your job not have an HR department or something? I'm fairly easygoing but encouraging sexual assault is over the line.
- those are co-workers though, everyone has stupid co-workers. It's like that whole "you can't choose your family" thing but corporatized.
The fact that everyone here is conflating sex with mental health support is the reason why men's mental health isn't being taken seriously.
The comments are taking the lead from the greentext that forms the basis for this post, and taking any greentext seriously is basically the original sin here.
we need men to sit down together and talk about their depression
I have a friend who hosts a men's support group through his Brazilian Jujitsu Dojo. And I think the fact that this club exists is great for everyone involved. But holy shit is it depressing to visit a club full of guys who are just harping on their depression.
Like, we all need a time and a place to unload. But we do also need a time and a place to have some fun. The best thing for my depression, getting out of college, was hanging with people my age and doing social activities together. BBQs, dance halls, board game nights, house parties, concerts and clubs - all great for relaxing and socializing.
we need other men to be supportive and not downplay these conversations with sexist or homophobic slurs
Also nice when people can feel safe to joke and laugh with each other.

Yeah, totally! Getting my dick wet is precisely the kind of emotional and intellectual connection I'm missing! The penis is my data transfer cable.

The penis is my data transfer cable.
That could almost be a CAKE lyric
[USB Connection sound]
Remember to safely unmount
TBF, they seem closely correlated. It seems unlikely (though not impossible) that you'll find the emotional intimacy we expect from romantic relationships but won't get any sex.
- That's if one assumes that the loneliness is caused solely by a lack of romantic connection, yes.
  Personally, I'm lacking in the friendship and acceptance department as well, and sex most certainly isn't a part of either of those.
- Strongly disagree. I've met far too many young men that see sex as a means to an often self serving end. Sex is a means of expressing love towards another person, it's not meant for self gratification. Seeing it that way is a recipe to have a lot of meaningless sex only to be left wondering why you feel so empty.
  Theres a reason women generally don't climax from being jackhammered or even from clitoral stimualtion in many situations. They're coded for that emotional connection as a prerequisite for good sex. We are coded that way too but modern culture has painted that type of vulnerability as "unmanly".
  In my view, a strong emotional connection creates the necessary conditions for good sex. But you don't need good sex to have a strong emotional connection.
  Men can end their loneliness epidemic by getting their priorities straight.
- This is such a toxic mentality. If you can't get emotional intimacy in a romantic relationship without sex then you have problems you need to work on.
- Honestly the people that make me feel not lonely are not the ones I have sex with. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket; that’s how you end up in a codependent mess. Loneliness isn’t about romantic partners only, and friendships can be the most fulfilling things.
Maybe Avatar was onto something….
- Well, crap... don't have nearly enough hair for that...

How does having sex once same as not being lonely? Sure I am lonely and virgin. But, I could just as easily be not virgin and still lonely AF.

Yea, I would imagine a 30-40 yo virgin may end up getting a sex worker. having sex with a sex worker doesn't really reduce loneliness.
- Some just gotta have sex before they can acknowlege that it might not be all their life is missing. Teenage hormones are so over-the-top, its a wonder so many of these men live long enough to voice their beliefs from the older age brackets.

That is sex. You can have all the sex you want and still be lonely.
Those stats are probably the "we asked some people" kind which means everyone who had their first relationship at 24 will say that "oh yeah technically i was with that random girl in grade school so you know what lets say its 12"

She went to a different school you wouldn't know her

"premarital sex" also known as sex

yeah but it was a one night stand so you know it made them feel extra less lonely

"Male loneliness epidemic" is about male friendships more than anything no?

That's definitely one sense, and the one that's actually an issue. But I've read enough headlines and yt subject lines to pick up on there also being some muddying of the waters with romantic female companionship. Or rather lack thereof as being a key part of the crisis.

16.8? jesus.

I wanna see some breakdowns of these stats by country and socioeconomic factors

Yeah. Even if we assume that the average age was 1 or 2 years higher when I was that age, there's no way that the numbers in my highschool class where anywhere close to that. Out of like 16 guys, I know of only a couple who even had a girlfriend while in school, which is probably more likely than casual sex at that age.
- The number seems about right to me. Puberty starts at 12-ish, so does sexual exploration.
- Plenty could have relationships outside school that they didn't talk much about.
  I had my first sex at 16 and first relationships at 11, and my classmates weren't even remotely aware of how rich of a romantic/sexual life I already had, or that I had it at all.
  I wasn't known as someone particularly likeable, either.
Imo sounds about right, people were getting mighty horny around that time and started having sex. Few years earlier even
Is it usually earlier in the US? Sounds a bit on the high side for where I live too.
I lost my v card at either 16 or 17, I forget which year exactly...
So yeah, 16.8 makes sense as an average.

Shit. I've had sex that made me feel even more alone than before.

(Had to figure out how to word that.)

With modern contraceptive technology we can have sex thats completely meaningless, where both parties are trying to achieve a deeper connection (to something, not even necessarily to each other) and misguidedly hope it can be achieved through a simple release. Its almost dystopian.
- It doesn't have to be meaningless. It's perfectly meaningful to have innocent fun with somebody else.

There's a difference between having had sex and not being lonely... If these idiots would stop equating being lonely to not getting laid there wouldn't be so much resistance to the idea that there is a problem. Yeah, not being able to find someone to have sex with sucks but there's a whole lot of other shit missing that comes before that. If your only problem is not getting laid you're not lonely you're horny.

If these idiots would stop equating being lonely to not getting laid there wouldn't be so much resistance to the idea that there is a problem.
The problem is that the vast majority of the time whenever you logically breakdown the actual complaints being put forth by people supporting the idea of a "male loneliness epidemic" they usually boil down to "i deserve sex", or some other misogynistic ideology centered around blaming others for their misanthropy.
Once you start asking questions like who is responsible for male loneliness? What's the solution for male loneliness? Why are we specifying it as a gender specific epidemic? If there are so many men unified in loneliness, why not just befriend each other......?
Usually the answers themselves will just be accusations of misandry or just beligerence. And then if they actually engage with any kind of honesty or self reflection, you will usually get down to "I deserve female companionship".....but it's totally not about sex. But also there's a difference between female friends and having a girlfriend.... But it's totally not about sex.
They must have never heard of hookers.

What are stats on suicide rate for men? Or depression? Wouldn't those be much better indicator than whether or not they had sex or marriage?

Depends if you are on 4chan of not
Lots of people have depression or suicidal thoughts while in relationships, too.

Yup. the sexual loneliness epidemic is easing up, because we're all fighting back to 'normal'. But ask most men this simple question: how many non-sexual friends do you have in your life that you communicate with more than once a week?

i think a simple "what do you feel right now" would stump half the population.
- If they dont answer with the predifined "fine"
IDK about 'loneliness epidemic', but 'lonely' IS my normal.
I do communicate with some friends more than once a week, but none of them even live in the same city as I do.
- That's the hell of it, but if you feel lonely at a base level, I suggest you try to find or start community events. You'd be amazed how effective Meetup is.
Is it normal to talk to friends more than once a week? That seems like a strange standard imo. Even my besties and I touch base maybe once or twice a month at most, and see eachother once every 4 to 6 months.
- That sounds normal to me, but it’s worth noting that when we were under Covid lockdown, I didn’t understand how so many people freaked out about it. I’ve always been sucky at social interactions and pretty much always felt lonely as a baseline. It’s like I’d been training for lockdown my entire life. Seeing others lose their minds trying to live the way I’ve always lived was quite awkward.
  Which means for many people, your/my standards for social contact are way too infrequent. I don’t know what an average measurement would be, but it’s clear that our “normal” can’t be most people’s “normal.”
- Is it normal to talk to friends more than once a week?
  Yes. It's very normal to talk to several friends per day, and to see several friends each week. Rotating through one's universe of friends, that might mean that there are a few friends you talk to at least a few times per week, some that you talk to a few times per month, and a some that you talk to a few times per year. And maybe you actually meet up in person a few times so that you're still seeing friends in person every week.
  That level frequency isn't necessary, but it's kinda shocking to me that your comment suggests that you find it surprising that many other people are doing this.

"Male loneliness epidemic" = "all lives matter." Though counterintuitive, they both attempt to bring increased attention to men on an issue that is already universal. There is a loneliness epidemic conversation you could join.

“Male loneliness epidemic” = “all lives matter.”
I disagree, ALM is a whataboutism meant to distract from the BLM movement. There is no loneliness epidemic movement, so if some men want to get together and discuss how loneliness particularly affects them, good for them.
- Sorry you've felt left out of the conversation. If you spend time in male-only spaces you'll find they aren't talking about it.
It's more like:
"All loneliness epidemic" == "All lives matter".
You don't like a particular demographic and then you invalidate their particular problems saying that everyone have them.
It's exactly the same argumentation. We all know that really all lives matter, the same we know that people is more lonely in general. But the same it is a specific problem with US cops killing black people disproportionately compared with white people there is a problem with men being more lonely in relation with women.
It doesn't mean that other genders are not lonely, same that "black lives matter" doesn't mean that people from other skin colors don't get killed. But there's a specifically problem related with gender and race respectively that needs to be addressed.

They also want to capture the "lonely man" demographic and make them feel like it's not their fault, engage them and get their clicks/dollars.

Is that an Andrew Tate wojak?

That's it. I knew it looked vaguely familiar and couldn't figure out why

"3.3% of men are virgin by age 30"

Cool! I am special

I almost was in the 3.3%... dodged it by only a few years.

Then I went without for a long while after though because I mistakenly thought any sex I'd have after that would probably be equally mediocre and it wasn't worth the effort. Realized that was stupid and I was missing out. Now I'm trying hard to get into a sexual relationship of some kind again with some minor success in the form of occasional one night stands. They're OK fun. I think my autism makes it hard to maintain the relationships though beyond one or two nights. My masking inevitably slips a little and I say or do something cringe or rude.

I'm bi I've been contemplating getting on Grindr to explore my homo side a bit more but from what I hear that's basically nothing but one night stands...

Go to FEELD bro :3

TIL I'm like in the 10%

Imma make that 15.1%

people don't go out anymore ok

Was at a nearly sold-out Ghost concert in Houston just last week. Had to wait in an enormous entrance line to get to the pool, the day before that. Grocery store is going to be slammed this weekend, because of all the Labor Day parties. Nearly got trampled in the park by a running club of what had to be a couple hundred people.
Damn shame nobody goes out anymore.
- what city are you in? im interested for honestly reasons
  edit oh its huston thank you friend
- People still go out to events like concerts and holiday parties. Far fewer people casually go out to their local bars and coffee shops during the week. I'm pretty sure that's empirical.

This is terrible news....