Microsoft tells Windows 10 users to just trade in their PC for a newer one, because how hard can it be?
Microsoft tells Windows 10 users to just trade in their PC for a newer one, because how hard can it be?
210 comments
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Trade in their PCs to who? Fucking Aquaman?
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That excellent gag is how I discovered hbomberguy some years ago
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What's especially funny is that he didn't even script that, he just came up with it on the spot. And now it's the joke he's most known for.
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I love how memes (in the Dawkinsian sense) work. Lots of people have enjoyed this, but I can imagine this being quoted as the original is lost to the sands of time.
Young people everywhere thinking that Aquaman was someone who just bought failing assets from everyone.
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The Linux guys obv
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October is going to be a great month to get a cheap second hand computer.
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It’s online corps offload computers but there will be a delay and many will just have the extended windows 10 supports. So I’d give it another year.
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Good time to start looking for a good deal on cheap home lab crap though.
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ooo and I bet they won't be that bad all things considered with how wild some of the non supported hardware is.
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Translation: "Install Linux."
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I really want to put Linux on my gaming PC, but I'm doubtful I can get my Rift S working on there. :/
Apparently there is an openxr driver for it, though, so I suppose I should at least give it a shot.
There's absolutely no way I'm going to win11, though.
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Nobara or Pop! OS would be good choices.
Yeah, VR is still catching up, but I feel like (dual) booting to Win 10 just for specific purposes would greatly reduce the risk.
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Your best shot is with Monado, which supports the Rift S: https://monado.freedesktop.org/
I only have an Index, so I can't speak for how well it works or how easy it is to setup.
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Yeah, this is why I never got into VR, the Linux support blows even if you get a supported headset because the games aren't made for Linux. There are some games, sure, but it's not worth spending $1k+ on an Index.
I'll use it once the barrier to entry drops or Linux support improves.
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As someone who routinely used to sink thousands of hours into games, and by that I mean 3000 hrs. on R6-3, 2500 hrs. on Squad and so on, the predatory practices of Microsoft, Steam and game developers have just turned me off gaming completely.
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I would, except there's always some software or some feature missing. And there's always the FOSS app that "might" meet "some" aspects of what native software does but it's almost always never "native" support.
Sure, I know I can play MOST games on Linux, but I know for a fact they'll launch on windows.
Or things like, sure, I know that my corsair Hardware MIGHT be controlled by signal RGB, but what about controlling the pump in my AIO? Or the sound levels on ny headset? Or the DPI in my mouse?
Then you have things like drivers. I'm not using any Nvidia GPUs right now, but the nvidia support for Linux is atrocious and you lose access to things like RTX-HDR and RTX Voice, and hell, even in AMD you lose access to certain features like AMFM2.
Then the software, not only does things like Adobe or Office just don't exist, the FOSS solutions are not industry standard, so sure, I can learn to use LibreOffice, but that's worth absolutely nothing when you apply for a corporate job and they expect you to know how to use outlook as a bare minimum, hell, even the Google office suite is being adopted faster.... Ah, but if the software is available there's still a chance it doesn't work because it's missing a dependency or something and you have to ask people to use the terminal and... Sigh
All in all, it's just behind in many ways, sure, for some people it's ok, and for laptops I'd think is mostly ok, great even. But I know I could deal with Linux, and I don't want to troubleshoot a whole PC to play a game when I already spend the whole day dealing with solving issues or servers or services on my job.
I'm rooting for Steam OS to release to desktops because my living room PC is LITERALLY just for gaming, so that "could" work nicely.
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Hardware MIGHT be controlled by signal RGB
OpenRGB to the rescue: https://flathub.org/apps/org.openrgb.OpenRGB
controlling the pump in my AIO?
What do you need to control about your pump? I sure hope it works without OS support.
Or the sound levels on ny headset?
Move the volume slider up or down?
Or the DPI in my mouse?
Save them to the mouse as profile if it can or use Piper: https://flathub.org/apps/org.freedesktop.Piper
in AMD you lose access to certain features like AMFM2
FSR Frame Gen works just fine, not sure why you need fake frames in more games.
the FOSS solutions are not industry standard, so sure, I can learn to use LibreOffice, but that's worth absolutely nothing when you apply for a corporate job and they expect you to know how to use outlook as a bare minimum
There is also OnlyOffice and online MS Office. Not sure what you need to know about Outlook to open it and use your eyes to read the mails.
even the Google office suite is being adopted faster
Good news, it runs in a browser and works on every OS!
Ah, but if the software is available there's still a chance it doesn't work because it's missing a dependency or something and you have to ask people to use the terminal and... Sigh
I have not fixed dependencies issue on Linux since the early 2000s. Flatpaks are your friend https://flathub.org/ .
All in all, it's just behind in many ways, sure, for some people it's ok, and for laptops I'd think is mostly ok, great even.
I run it on my high end PC and I disagree. It's ahead in many ways.
- The graphics drivers are included and don't need any bloated software to work
- It has a banger OpenGL driver, which makes games like Minecraft run significantly faster.
- It has a very active community for game support for games where the developer does not care
- It translates older DirectX versions to Vulkan automatically, resulting in a performance uplift and more stability. People on Windows are installing DXVK just so older games work. Look up DXVK in the Steam forums.
- It downloads shader caches from Valve, preventing shader stutter in games that don't do it on their own
That list could go on for a while and it's only for gaming.
I haven't even gone into installation and not having to run ShutUp10 every time just to make the OS usable. Or how KDE is so much cleaner than Windows. Or how I don't have any ads in my start menu, don't have to force download Candy Crush on first boot, don't have pre-installed apps I can't remove, don't have to block my own OS in its firewall to get rid of telemetry, don't have to be told that I need to upgrade to Windows 11 constantly.
For work: Docker just works, complex networking setups are not a pain to setup, creating VMs is so much easier and has so many more features. VPN is so seamlessly setup. I can read almost every file system on the planet and use ROCm without jumping through hoops. Not to mention I don't get Copilot and Recall shoved down my throat.
Are there issues on Linux? Sure, lots of them. But if I find them I can tell somebody about it and don't have to deal with them for centuries.
I'm rooting for Steam OS to release to desktops because my living room PC is LITERALLY just for gaming, so that "could" work nicely.
SteamOS is just a modern Linux distro with Steam pre-installed and in autostart. If stuff works there, it works on regular Linux just as well.
Bazzite achieves the same thing right now: https://bazzite.gg/
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Kinda excited to go all the way and swap my last holdout. The last thing Windows forces me to do.
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Adobe and ease of use
I need Adobe, specifically Lightroom, because there’s no alternative. I can’t just stop using it as a semi-professional photographer (I make money from it, just not a ton).
Darktable doesn’t handle large libraries well and also is missing features such as AI remove and integration with photoshop for splitting photos up for social media posts.
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Then Apple. Their M-series are fantastic, and their support cycles are great. Also, taking marketshare from Microsoft is generally a good thing because it'll force them to make a better product.
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OK but people who need Adobe are a really small minority.
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If it came down to ditching adobe or quitting photography I would quit photography and I love taking photos lol.
Adobe is a threat to the photography industry for many reasons (especially to future photographers who want to follow in your footsteps) you should reconsider your options.
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People are too addicted to video games apparently
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Gaming on Linux is better than it's ever been. But yeah still a few Windows only releases, but that time is coming to an end I think.
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Is that Sam Reich in a penguin suit!?
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jokes on them i just erased my windows and put mint on it
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Hi from a Thinkpad running Debian (Mint), as God intended
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I use Arch btw.
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My Acer Nitro with OpenSUSE says hi 👋
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My Acer Nitro with Aurora Says Hi!
(I'm thinking maybe going to Kinonite)
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This is kinda funny, just thinking someone believes you can "trade in" a PC at all. Even more so when they are trying to say those same Windows 10 machines will be so useless you need to trade them in in the first place, making the value of such a trade in what, next to nothing?
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Ah, the old Ben Shapiro logic. If you don't want your house that's at risk of flooding, don't worry, simply sell it! Someone's bound to give you a good price for it!
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Hmm. I wonder if Aquaman is in the market for some old computers.
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And I now I use Linux. Will never go back to Windows after this nonsense.
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This is the way. Linux gave my computer more freedom and lifespan. Never go back again.
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Well, if I'm honest I tried to install Win11 before Linux but it was such a pain in the arse I gave up. The installer couldn't pick up the SSD so I had to download drivers onto USB and install them half way through the wizard. THEN, it wouldn't pick up the WiFi card so I bypassed that to get the installer to finish, and to top it off, even after I'd installed all the drivers, it still didn't pick it up, not in the device manager, nowhere, as if it didn't exist. So I gave up. Linux installed first time and although it's not quite perfect yet it's functional enough for me to actually use the flipping thing! Haha
I've installed every Windows since 95 on various machines and never had so much trouble. Win11 is complete crap. And Microsoft are a bunch of dickheads for forcing it when there was literally nothing wrong with Win10.
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Hot take from an IT guy: save your important data, make a plain vanilla W11 boot USB (nothing fancy, no Rufus tricks), wipe your hard drive to zeroes, and install W11 like normal. I've reimaged a ton of older PCs and literally never seen it not work. My 10 year old Optiplex, supposedly ineligible for W11, runs W11 just fine.
Microsoft might someday break it, sure. That's not new. Microsoft products were always, in practice, available to us at Microsoft's pleasure. This is the same company that allows massgrave to exist on github because they'd rather we pirate MS Office than allow LibreOffice any oxygen. We'll probably be fine.
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I'm imagining me doing this to my building of elderly, it dies and then opening my eyes to 40 work orders. Lmao
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I will almost guarantee some update will break shit at the most inconvenient time humanly possible and the people you’ve done this for will need your help, all at the same time.
Well, yeah. That's life as an admin under the best circumstances. There's a running list of Windows ticking time bombs over on r/sysadmin. There are lots of good reasons to ditch Windows, but I wouldn't say the risk of MS shutting down technically unsupported hardware is one of them (because I don't agree it's a substantial risk).
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Users to microsoft: "You're creating a huge pile of garbage out of perfectly fine devices because of unneeded hardware requirement"
microsoft: "It's ok, just buy a new one"
Rarely have a message gone through so bad.
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Funny because people still use Windows 7 in large quantities across the world.
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Windows 7 is such a nice user experience today, if you use it in 2025 you really get an idea of how far windows has fallen off.
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Can you believe this company has a Chief Sustainability Officer? What the fuck do they do all day?
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Can MS be sued by EU for this? There was the thing with USB-C, because E-waste, and now the most used Desktop-OS says "just throw your PC away" for a not really needed (and artifically defined) requirement.
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Linux
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Alright then MS, (this is hypothetical as I haven't ran Windows as my main OS in years and don't plan on going back) since you want me to trade in my hardware, how 'bout I trade in your OS instead? :p
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Just in case anyone reading doenst know - the free tool Rufus can write a Win 11 ISO to your usb drive md remove all the silly soft requirements.
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Or better yet, windows 10 LTSC. Which will be supported for another 2 years. 4 if you subsequently switch the product key to the IOT LTSC version.
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The free OS Linux also doesn't pull this crap, and Rufus can write a Linux ISO to your USB drive and remove Microsoft's gaslighting from your life.
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Windows updates don't work correctly a lot of the time if you've bypassed the requirements. My predecessor at work installed 11 on some ancient systems and it's been a hassle.
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I’ve had no issues on the machines i’ve done this with, aside from having to do an upgrade in place with a major update (used rufus, write the latest iso, did the upgrade from the bootable usb.
regular windows updates work without hassle. perhaps your predecessor didn’t use a complete solution 🤷
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Hah. Good luck trying to make me dispose of the computer I built almost a decade ago and that I just upgraded. Neither my laptops nor my phones have outlived this baby.
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It might be time to release the shackles of Windows and head on over to Linux.
Or I guess you could get Windows 10 LTSC.
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Yeah! I'm gonna use Windows 10 LTSC in the meantime but I'm still eyeing a full jump to Linux.
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I put Linux on my mom's laptop which is nearing two decades old at this point. It was the pragmatic choice even though I personally use Windows.
Windows security updates only last a few years. Would be annoying to keep reinstalling and re explaining the changed UI every few years.
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Linux users tell Microsoft to just get over it, dump your parasitic software and start over, because how hard can it be?
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As someone who did exactly this a year and a half or so ago: so much easier than you think.
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DoN't YOu gUyS hAvE TPM? Hilarious.
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TPM part is easy. It's them arbitrarily cutting out cpu generations that's the problem.
oh you have an almost brand new cpu, sorry we decided you needed a slightly newer line for win 11. Just trade it in for a new one
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Yup. OG Ryzen had TPM but wasn't supported for Windows. Not sure if that has changed.
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Tpm I do have, the annoying thing is secureboot I need to enable to play league on win11 and that wont work with when dual booting with my main os linux.
I hate win11 so much man
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Always wandering why it isn' t possible for Microsoft to maintain their version and update all along. Linux can do it, Android can do it. I' m not sure about Apple. I switched to Linux years ago and I'm still most satisfied about my choice. My current laptop is from 2009 and can still go on for years. That is what you call sustainability
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But then the People wouldnt pay for it over and over again?
People are way less willing to pay for updates than for whole new versions.
Apple and companies using Android are selling hardware, not software like Microsoft.
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They make most of their money from pro licenses and telemety data anyway, I'm sure.
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Updates should be incorparated in the subscription of your software. True that Apple and companies using Android are selling hardware. But Microsoft is also selling hardware. At my work we use Microsoft Surface laptops and my son in law has a X-Box. They even start selling advertisements.
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Pay for windows?
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Sustainable products are not profitable products. Look at what happened to Tupperware.
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True. But the real problem is that we want too much profit and the companies are getting to big. My guess is that if the tax plans are changed and we settle for less money, it will be much better for many things. It should be added that prices would then also have to be much lower
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Android doesnt, my S8 can no longer be updated and many apps are beginning to no be supported. I love this phone, all the new ones are way too big.
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Lineageos. I'm like 1 android version behind latest on s9.
Also it depends on the chip maker and the phone maker. Fairphone will get the latest for like a decade..
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It depends. When using Samsung then you on;ly get updates for the first two years. I' ve run a Fairphone and I received updates for 4 years.
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Trading in a PC.... in 2025? To who? Where? What time period, even? They must be thinking it's still 1985, and you can trade in your IBM Compatible to your nearest IBM Distributor.
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The addage to people who ask if I buy PCs is: You want to get rid of it. How am I going to convince someone to not only take it, but pay money for it?
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Maybe to the "third world" ( i dont like this name ) countries which still use linux because of high financial costs of windows... I can't wait react os 1.0
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A testament to the shit development standards at MS. An OS literally should not in a million years be this resource inefficient, especially out of the box.
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Ok, write me a check for a new one.
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Actually you can get the IoT Enterprise LTSC here and do your windows thing until 2032
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How much could a new PC be Michael, $10?
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I never liked Windows 10, I had way too many issues with it. However, so many companies rely on old versions of Windows and it takes them years to upgrade to the latest version. The machines I use at work still have Windows 10 installed because the software we rely on isn't compatible with Windows 11 yet. This whole "trade in your old PC for a new one" is ridiculous. Thankfully there's many Linux distros that work with older hardware so you don't need Windows!
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When management doesn’t want to upgrade from XP because it still works
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My highschool PCs had XP for as long as at all possible. They switched them to some beginner friendly Linux after. Way to go.
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Let's get all IT people together and fight through the hassle to help friends and family switch to Linux
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I switched to Linux on my laptops years ago. Recently, I retired and started playing video games like Skyrim. I play on a Nintendo Switch. I considered playing Skyrim on a laptop so I could use/build mods. I bought a laptop with Windows 11 and spent forty minutes removing the bloat, ads, spyware, ai nonsense, and other dross, fixing it so it did not 'update' to restore everything I deleted, and installing my preferred alternatives (browser, search, email etc). It reminded me why I hate Windows almost as much as Mac OS (which is even more controlling). Microsoft have hundreds of engineers 'enshitifying' everything. It is more than a full-time job trying to stop them and block their 'improvements'. I am retired. I have better things to do.
I did not enjoy playing games with a laptop (hurts my arthritis, I prefer using a console and an easy chair) and resented having to reverse engineer everything I installed to keep it running but without sacrificing my privacy so the laptop now just sits in a drawer. It amazes me that anyone still tolerates Microsoft products, or any of the monopolists stuff. Why is anyone still using google search or chrome browser, why bing or any of it? Why is anyone still seeing adverts? Why is everyone still being fed by algorithms? You must chose this - but why? I always sought out better and if it did not exist, I built it, and if I could not build it, I did without. There is a lot of dumbing-down around technology. Back in C20th, we used to build our own hardware, write our own software. We were skilled hobbyists (later I got an M.Sc. to reinforce my hobby skills with theory and even ran a business for a while as an engineer). Around 2000 +/- five years, the monopolists offered 'help' in the form of WYSIWYG editors to write code for us or 'click buttons to register your account' platforms to host content for us instead of us running our own websites (blogger, wordpress, facebook, twitter etc). They dumbed us all down, farmed us like animals for data and used clickbait to get ad revenue and undermined our politics, culture, even changed our sense of being human. Now old folk can build resources but younger people can only consume. We have to re-skill and resist the seduction of the easy and free-to-use. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Never trust a tech bro, whether USA or any nationality.
Personally, I want to 'jail break' my Switch and make mods for my console version of Skyrim. I can't do that now as it is illegal but when they bring out the Switch 2 and the old console is 'obsolete' and they stop trying to get money for Skyrim, I reckon we tinkerers will get a chance to re-purpose the old console to play the old games in our own way. I reckon some exciting engineering is happening amongst the recyclers and re-purposers rather than amongst the corporates. I only buy second-hand for ethical reasons and to save money. I always install my own software based on AOSP or use a more ethical distro or alternative to the commercial options. I always debloat or degoogle or remove unwanted stuff. I wish that kind of personalisation were more common. There is a zero sum relationship with tech: either the technology controls you, or you control it. I urge you to control your own tech. Don't be enslaved by it. I feel I am in a minority in wanting sovereignty over my damn phone. It makes me sad.
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Personally, I want to 'jail break' my Switch and make mods for my console version of Skyrim.
Why not just get a steam deck?
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I tried creating a Steam account and was blocked by the revolving captcha security thing - took days to try to get help from their customer care and by the time they got back to me I had lost interest. I spent the waitjng time researching Valve and I decided they are not an ethical business. Made me sad as I loved the idea of a customised-for-gaming-on-console linux OS and liked the look of the hardware. But Valve is a monopolist and has too much market share and too many users and thus too much power - USA politics today shows how big a risk that is. Valve supports unethical business models like 'rent game to play', AI-generated junk games and IP violations so it debases game development and hurts indy developers, live-streaming games which is bad for environment. It promotes 'easy access/always on gaming' and is thus profiting from addiction-to-gaming, which ix a MASSIVE problem and few gamers admit it. It's an American corporation and I distrust American corporate culture. Most of which might be said of other console/platforms so its not just Valve/Steam, I feel wary of but the whole industry. I bought a second-hand Switch so did not help Nintendo/Japanese corporate power directly. I bought a bundle of 2nd-hand games on sd card with minimal download content (except for 'No Man's Sky' which constantly updates). I am trying to be an ethical gamer - limit my time gaming to stop me becoming an addict etc. But I admit I am compromised - I spend too much time gaming, being retired its easy to lose track of time. Honestly, I feel like a vegan who wraps bacon in thick wholemeal sandwiches and pretends they are not really eating pigs since its mainly bread. I am 'a work in progress'.
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Linux/BSD blah blah blah
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When will Commerce Secretary Sputnik shill for Windows 11 on Fox?
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Someone has to say it: I bought a MacBook!
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I may not have 10 years left in my life cycle!
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I installed linux on my PC a couple months ago. The other day I wanted to log back into my windows partition for the first time in a while in order to clean up some of the files on that partition (even though the drive is mounted in linux, the windows "fast boot" option apparently leaves it in a state that linux considers read-only). Windows apparently wouldn't let me log in without a microsoft account, instead of just using my regular windows username.
So yeah, that partition's gone now. No going back!
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Lots of suggestions here. Here is mine peppermint OS. Simple and doesnt brake (debian based)
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Peppermint OS and Pop! OS are my top favs.
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Microsoft is getting billions for AI datacenters (they're now turning back on) why do you buy me a fucking new PC Microsoft
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Why have 1bil when you could have 1.1 bil
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eli5? people can continue using windows 10 but becomes insecure?
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Ms will stop supporting windows 10. Windows 11 has hardware requirements for a specific security chip and processors with specific features, so upgrading components isn’t an option.
If you have an old pc you can’t easily upgrade. Theres ways of forcing it to work but it’s not supported.
A lot of businesses will be getting rid of their old pcs so they dont need to deal with the hassle.
Linux will still support and run on the older hardware, so a lot of people are expecting used hardware prices to drop.
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Yes. They also added an option to pay for patches.
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Im going to get so many pc upgrades. woohoo.
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"Trade in" like theres a dealership willing to give you some kind of fair value for your old computer. That said, if you're willing to be extorted by Microsoft, then you get what you have coming to you.
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Kinda funny the same statement to Tesla owners, where comments are telling that it's easy...
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210 comments
It's one new PC, Michael. How much could it cost? $10?
What's 10 dollars? The people saying this are too rich to understand poor numbers. They probably think in terms of "a new pc costs less than an hour at my favorite spa, people are complaining too much".
Arrested Development tv show. Pretty funny. The family fortune started with the dad opening a banana stand in his youth.
ALT: 2 panels. 1st panel- Rich mom from Arrested Development sitcom, holding a cup, opulent home, saying "I mean it's one banana, Michael. How much could it cost? Ten dollars?"
2nd panel- Michael sitting back, head on hand saying "you've never actually stepped foot in a supermarket, have you?"
based on the context of the show shed say like 10,000$ but I like yours better lol