Valve runs its massive PC gaming ecosystem with only about 350 employees
Valve runs its massive PC gaming ecosystem with only about 350 employees
arstechnica.com
Valve runs its massive PC gaming ecosystem with only about 350 employees
186 comments
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Valve is an excellent example of a sustainable tech company. It's not on the growth at any cost, boom and bust cycle
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I recall in a decades old Texas Univ interview, Gabe said you had to be aggressive in your firing processes.
Is the same video I recall they made him put on a horse head and try to hold up three fingers.
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They just provide a service good enough for the more toxic gamers so they won't get harassed, nothing more beyond that. They have almost nonexistent moderation, and no longer are developing games.
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They are developing a game at the moment, Deadlock. Lots of footage and a dev build leaked a few months ago.
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Steam is successful because they're the only company in that market treating customers right.
I'd be very upset if the courts side with EA.
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and because they are not publicly traded company.
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Well that's why they actually do right by their customers. That said I definitely agree
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They're also one of the few (possibly only) that has not gone public.
Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
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Wait what's going on in the courts between valve and EA?
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What are EA doing with Valve? The lawsuit this came from is between Wolfire Games and Valve; far as I can tell, Valve and EA work together on some stuff.
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Steam could use better search. Ideally I'd like to be able to just use SQL, but I understand why not.
There's been a few times where I wanted to find something in Steam, but spent most of the emotion on clicks and fucks before launching something, concluding that yeah, I wanted this, and stopping it because I don't want this anymore.
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Steam DB has a pretty decent search. It's not SQL but the filters are a bit better.
I know how you feel tho - so few consumer orgs give us an advanced search worth it's salt. I want to have (x AND y) OR z, or maybe x AND (y OR z)... Not whichever specific combination was preordained for me.
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I still can't figure out how their search filters work.
It always blocks games with violence whether I have all filters checked or unchecked
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I think people often hate steam for their success, but fail to see it's the result of customers'choice in a free market. (I see it enough I'm not sure if people get paid to hate on them... To ruin the thing they have most of customer respect)
Steam is not publicly traded and does not act like every other publicly traded company. It invests in its customers experience and custtomer come back for that. It does not nickel in dime or use its position to hold its customer captive and enshitfify its product. It's not an ISP...
It invests in hardware and software development it believes the industry needs not to make a massive profit but to be a champion of what gaming should be (Linux, steam link, index, bug picture, steam controller, steam deck) These products are experimental and usually sold at or near cost not to make money but to prove to the market there is a need and a demand.
They are often a champion and voice of the gamer.
They could have tried to be like Bethesda and tried to monetize their workshop but they didn't.
Sometimes they're quiet and we don't hear anything about what they're working on, but that doesn't mean they aren't working on things.
I can't imagine pc gaming would have survived and resurged without steam. And I hate to think what it would be like if there were just 5 epics, origin, Uplay, whatever other launcher. I think gaming would look like mobile games..,.. which takes a 30% cut too and can only sell in apple or android markets.... No one bitches there and they offer no services.
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I think people often hate steam for their success
I hate them for forcing me to use a kind of DRM which will stop working once their servers stop.
Halflife was just fine without steam. Adding steam seemed to be a way to stop players from sharing CD keys.
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Luckily steamless is piss easy to use because Steams "DRM" is only meant to be preventative. As in, you're playing it on steam for the community, workshop, cloud saves, per game notes, control scheme setups, etc etc.
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That's kind of why they are successful though, right? They were the ones that figured out how to supply games digitally for a profit, which required a way to prevent people from sharing the product for free. This was previously done with CD keys, but the advent of the internet rendered that mostly ineffective.
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You can play: Half-Life 1: Source Half-Life 2 Half-Life 2: Episode One Half-Life 2: Episode Two All with steam closed. Original half life expansions aside, your take is senile. I suppose alyx could've done without it.
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The way I see it, Steam having DRM is Valve's way of giving publishers and devs that choice, and said choice just makes Steam more likely to stick around for the future, which makes the biggest drawback of DRM (losing all your games) less likely.
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And the fact that they can just decide to take your games away from you by deleting your account?
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These products are experimental and usually sold at or near cost not to make money but to prove to the market there is a need and a demand.
Well, no... I think it's more akin to the concept of "loss-leaders". Get people in the door and while they're there, they'll buy a game or two. Which is where their real profits come from.
In the end, it's still just a business strategy intended to result in profits for Valve.
However, that being said, the fact that they don't have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to maximize profits and keep that stock price up at (literally) all costs, allows them to operate the way they do.
But don't get it twisted, they are a for-profit corporation, and their ultimate goal is making money. They're just not as shitty about it.
The bar is REALLY fucking low these days.
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Steam was apparently already cool when I was a kid. Though the reason I knew about it was that I had 2 games with Steam support bought in stores (one of them I gifted without installing\registering, another one I installed without registering).
Others are still at that point - you buy a game and you get something like GameSpy and such as an optional thing nobody thinks about. They are trying to make those services the entry point, and I guess for AAA players they have already succeeded.
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This number doesn't seem to include support staff who iirc are contract workers so might not count as "employees".
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Most of the support staff is their customers and users actually.
Most of the store is curated and moderated by the developers and publishers, but you’re not wrong about stuff like server farms and development.
But I’m also curious, there’s a line, so where is it? No business is going to include the plumber and electrician they hire to do occasional or even routine work and maintenance. So do the same techs working on server equipment count or not? Where’s the line on this who’s a contracted employee instead of contracter.
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Most of the support staff is their customers and users actually.
It's not users that process refund request, recover your account if e.g. you've lost your 2FA method, or any of the other innumerable things you might need to contact Steam support for. I don't think it's unreasonable to include the staff that do this as part of their workforce.
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Economists are praising it‘s efficiency but there are massive shortcomings when it comes to costumer support. A couple years ago I was told they have a whopping single person dedicated to matters in the german market for example. Anyone who has any idea about the german bureaucracy hellscape knows this is far from sufficient to deal with any issue whatsoever. And I suspect it‘s not running much smoother elsewhere.
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costumer
I don't think valve owes the cosplay community squat.
in a serious reply to your point though:
I appreciate their line of thought - why dedicate resources for roles that don't add value to steam's development just to engage with every country's unique bureaucracy? until those countries fine valve for noncompliance it seems like an easy choice to make.
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It's interesting because I've never had to wait for too long for a reply. So I assume they have a lot of automatic tools helping them out in some way.
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It has been years since I've contacted Steam customer support so maybe things have changed, or maybe my experience was not representative, but I found them to be pretty helpful and not-shit when I contacted customer support for something in the past.
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8500 million in revenue and 350 employees.
Gaben owns 6 yatchs and spends 70 to 100 million maintaining them.
There is absolutely nothing that differentiates valve from the other stores front to justify this. The whole store front industry should be tightly regulated. No billionaire should exist and if you find yourself defending one, it just means they have a good marketing team.
This is having a negative impact on the industry and the only ones benefiting are Gaben, Nintendo, Microsoft, Epic, etc. it's clear collusion.
Can't wait for all the downvotes and simps coming to defend him because "Gaben isn't your average billionaire".
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Others barely tried to compete. GOG has its niche in DRM-free, while Epic engages in REAL monipolistic behaviour(Epic exclusives) and upset gamers with it.
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Please cite a source for your claims
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Did you read your own article?
In 2021, Microsoft estimated Valve's annual revenue at $6.5 billion, roughly on the same scale as EA's $7.5 billion in 2024 revenue. But Steam achieved those numbers with around 350 employees, compared to well over 13,000 people employed by EA.
The disparity highlights just how much money Valve brings in with a relatively small workforce. And a lot of that is thanks to the chunk of revenue Valve takes from every sale on Steam.
That's the indie industry getting fucked right there, but sure, drink Gabbens sweat.
The actual revenue is difficult because it's all estimation, they clearly don't want us to know and hide it. One website says 13 billion lol, and they brought it an estimated 1 billion just from Counter-strike crates. I got 8.5 from the article that was posted two days ago. Whatever it is, it's too fucking high, stop defending multi billionaires.
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Sounds like they're using computers effectively. Not sure why this is news.
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THB, they could use a few more employees and it shows. Community moderation is awful and there are many nazi groups. The whole trading ecosystem is ripe with frauds and many games released are cheap shovelware, asset flips or broken. And don't get me started on the problems with abandoned Early Access games. Valve could hire a few more people and maybe try to tackle those issues.
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The shitty games released on steam are the outcome of it being relatively easy to publish a game on the steam, and that should absolutely not change. Let people publish their crap that nobody will play, you don't see the vast majority of it.
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No ones forcing me to use them. No issues here.
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Yeah same. I don't play a ton, mostly on the deck,. And I also avoid interaction with other people on their platform. But I've never had an issue.
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Not sure what valve can do about abandoned early Access games other than remove them if they're not updated in a certain amount of time. Although that causes problems too.
Not really clear how having more people would fix these issues
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They could create a new flag for Abandoned Early Access games. If an Early Access game hasn't been updated in a long time, that could trigger an automatic email to the publisher saying "Hey your game hasn't been updated in a long time and could be changed from Early Access to Abandoned Early Access. Consider updating the game or store page to keep Early Access status. If you would like to switch to Abandoned Early Access, you can ignore this message and it will automatically update in two weeks or you can manually change the status on your game's Steam page." Wouldn't really need more employees to handle this unless the current employees are all too busy to implement something like it.
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They could easily prevent devs that abandoned an early access title from launching another one. They could check if the devs have a reasonable business plan and are able to fulfill their promises. They could vet them and check if they did manage to release some games. And so on. It is not impossible and would help us gamers, because nobody wants abandoned games.
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This take will probably be unpopular, but FWIW I agree with you. I rarely use the community feature and I don't care about the trading so personally I would like it if they just stuck with what they do well.
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I assume Valve, like the vast majority of tech companies, outsources moderation. It's normally outsourced to incredibly underpaid and overworked people in the global south not given proper training for these things.
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the manager:
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Gabe owns so many yachts.
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I just read that it's 80 people, which one is true now? https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/24263263
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Thor from Pirate Software has a great video breaking down how Steam works and the lawsuit that claims they are ripping off consumers. It's very educational.
Of course, there is no requirement to use Steam. Game makes can publish their game themselves without a platform at all, which very few do. If you say they actually need a platform, there is the value they are getting for that 30%. If they weren't getting anything of value, then they could do it themselves and benefit instead, which most do not.
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Wanted to link this video, but you did it first.
Also, as mentioned in video, gamers prefer steam because developers there can't disable or remove comments or not refund on basis of "sucks to be you" like EA and Ubisoft do.
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Thor simping for a company like he thinks they'll pay him, absolute cringe.
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They also offer the Steam multiplayer backend, workshop, and Steam's social system which is becoming enticing again given Discord's latest behaviour.
GOG's gimmick is no DRM, Itch.io has the cheapest self-publishing costs, and Epic has... well I'm not sure really, but the other two have their place, but it's no coincidence Steam is the biggest.
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That’s why steam looks outdated
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Counterpoint: Every other modern "flat" UI is low effort, cheap garbage. Bring back the bezels and shadows.
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I honestly don't care how it looks, provided it's easy to navigate. Steam gets that right. Other apps and websites with constant updates just requires relearning how to do what you want.
I only need Steam to do a few things:
- work well on Linux
- customize controllers/inputs
- organize my games
- help me find new games
It does all of those well, the other stores do not. If any other store handles that, they'll get my money.
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186 comments
How many times has this been posted now? Genuine question: why is this such a big deal?
These are not all video game companies, but for reference:
AMD: 26,000 employees
EA: 14,000
Facebook: 84,000
Netflix: 11,000
Spotify: 9,000
Twitter: 7,500
Yep. But it also seems like people are so shocked by the data that maybe they're missing the moral of this story, too? ...sure it's impressive that Valve has done so much with such a small workforce, but I think the reason they've been able to move so quickly is because they have such a small workforce. Companies get slow because they get big...I don't care how much you tout your SAFe processes; you will always lose efficiency as you grow. It's the difference between steering a canoe vs a cruise ship...the more you grow, the more you have to fight against momentum. So, my takeaway from this is that they figured out the secret to continued success as a maturing company, and good for them.
Now, I say all of this with sincere hopes that they don't work their smaller number of employees to death and ask them to take on inappropriately burdensome workloads. Because if that's the case, they should fuck right off with the rest of their peers.
But it’s basically a store front and they contract almost everything out. Like how many people does it take to run some servers? They don’t make games, the steam deck and the VR are the few things they’ve done. And that could be done by a couple dozen engineers and contract everything else.
Like how many employees should they have?
Okay I shouldn’t have taken a shot at their game making ability, but it legit fucking sucks and they acknowledge it, people bash them for it sometimes, take it easy guys.
None of these companies are comparable other than they’re also tech…
Hint: none of those companies need all of those employees.
EA is not video game company?
Slow Newsweek for gaming, I guess. They have had a public employee directory on their website for as long as I can remember; it's not really news.
Been seeing a lot of anti-valve corporate propaganda lately I think they're upset with the way they run their company because it shows that in comparison their own companies are being greedy and hoarding wealth. It also shows how vastly inefficient in comparison they are.
Weird take, in valve more money is saved for Gabe himself (hence his half a dozen yachts….), while on the other hand, the companies with more employees spend more on giving other people money.
So who’s hoarding using your logic? The company with 10 bil in revenue and 200 employees, or the company with the same revenue and 20000 employees…? Because to me it seems ones doing more for citizens at large than the other lining one persons pocket far More.