Move over, Ford and Chevy: Kei trucks are pulling up as customers opt for smaller, cheaper vehicles
Move over, Ford and Chevy: Kei trucks are pulling up as customers opt for smaller, cheaper vehicles
We desperately need smaller vehicles to counter the behemoth light trucks that are in the road today. Everything about these kei truck bans just scream corruption and incompetence from politicians to domestic auto manufacturers.
"Light" trucks. A real light truck is something like the Toyota Hilux up through the 5th or 6th generation.
My S10 is a "light truck." A Silverado 3500 is not.
Americans just love being the biggest on the road. Bigger is better in their minds. Maybe we put an extra tax on very large vehicles.
We need to require special licenses for those behemoths.
I'd prefer they get banned entirely because there's really no practical use for them that isn't solved by some other commercial vehicle.
It's not only Americans though. French car makers also sell big SUVs to everyone because it's very important to have the biggest car ever when you bring back a small bag of groceries, or when you desperately need to be on top of the world in the traffic jams. I see those morons every day and it saddens me.
Or stop making fuel artificially inexpensive?
The other day an edible and an aliexpress misadventure really got me wondering “Why shouldn’t I have an electric cargo trike”?
It’s the biggest tricycle I can find!
I'd love to see a comeback of vehicles like 1980s Toyota and Mazda pickups. Just a bit taller than sedans, good sized bed. I never understood the popularity of trucks that almost need a mini ladder to get into when they're being used strictly in an urban or suburban setting.
What ban?
Many US states have laws preventing people from registering these kei class trucks.
For example, https://dmv.ny.gov/registration/how-register-imported-vehicle
On that page
KEI-Class vehicles cannot be registered or titled in New York State. (Authority: Section 400-a of NYS VTL)
They stopped making Honda Fits (in North America) because there was no demand.
Chicken tax and EPA nuttery. It's fucking bullshit.
Kei trucks have the same, if not slightly bigger/smaller, bed size as a modern F-150. But they're basically the size of Honda Fits.
I've wanted one since I worked for USPS and learned to drive on the right side of a vehicle. My state does allow you to register them and drive them on the road, but alas, I cannot afford one. :(
If that happened I'd buy one. A truck would make a lot of sense for me but I hate the ones that are available so much I couldn't stomach buying one. I just make due with my old civic and borrowing my dads colorado when I need to move big stuff.
Ford and Hyundai have tried to bring service to that market with the Maverick and Santa Cruz, respectively. My folks have one and love it, but I've found most people still complain because they "don't need that big if a truck" but then you mention towing/hauling capacity and they say "well why can't it just tow something small like an F150 does? I'm not trying to get a dually but if I didn't want to do X then I'd just get a car!" I suspect most people's "truck needs" would be accommodated but fomo and marketing leads buyers astray even when they already know what they want. Or they're fickle and just need something to complain about.
Ford and Hyundai have tried to bring service to that market with the Maverick and Santa Cruz
They didn't try very hard. The Maverick doesn't have a single cab or full size bed option and the santa cruz looks like a SUV with 1/4 of the back chopped off.
Here's a comparison of a 2008 Ranger vs. a 2022 Maverick to show what I mean better. They're roughly the same size but you lose so much with the Maverick.
2008 RANGER Height 67.7 in. Length 203.6 in. Width 69.4 in. Wheelbase 125.9 in.
2022 MAVERICK Height 68.7 in. Length 199.7 in. Width 72.6 in. Wheelbase 121.1 in.
I drove a 99 Ranger into the ground. It was absolutely fine in every way that truck people care about. Give us back our small trucks!
What do you find people want to tow? I'm often at a loss when people bring this up because I've never once had a moment in my life where I was disappointed by the lack of towing capacity of my small car
I'm in the "hatchback car or tiny truck" market for my next car.
I got one off of marketplace in great condition for a good deal. It is very practical and fun to drive. Also you get a lot of looks.
Been to Japan lately and can share some photos. There are even Kei Fire Trucks, for the many small roads with wooden houses and shrines etc.
And then there are hundreds of different kei truck and van types for all purposes, even concrete mixers.
Also, private houses in cities are often small and space-saving and so are the cars. A sensible use of public space – and cars only park on private property or rented parking spaces.
This is just freaking adorable!
Neither the fire truck nor the concrete truck are Kei class vehicles.
They are small diesel trucks, yes, but Kei literally means 'light' and have strict weight limits on both the weight of the vehicle and how much load they can carry.
Well, those are also not vehicles that the average citizen buys. They're specialized for their purpose, the fire truck needs to transport a decent amount of water and 4-5 people, and concrete is heavy stuff. But in a certain way they follow the same design philosophy.
I will promise you that those two are not even close to the size of traditional versions you'll see in Germany.
The fire truck's not a kei-- keis have yellow plates
Ok that black van model goes way harder than it has any right to
I guess the size has something to do with the size of Japanese roads and back alley space?
Yes in some neighborhoods and villages the roads are so narrow that they can practically only be driven on by Kei cars.
Japan as an Island has limited space available for natural reasons, plus large parts of the country are mountain area. So the old cities have been built in plains and reached high density. Building is strictly regulated.
And that has also grown into the culture. The Japanese sense for efficiency is legendary and so you simply don't waste space. And in general, you don't show off with oversized cars. Understatement is part of the general habitus. Shintoism and Buddhism have deep roots and that certainly plays a role too.
Reminder that due to the chicken tax, these vehicles have to be 25 years old before they can be imported.
The big problem is, these vehicles were built to 30 year old safety standards - no vehicle from the 1990's (except maybe a SAAB, and even then they're not strong enough anymore and will fail a small offset frontal) can compete with a modern car in safety requirements.
There is also the fact that these vehicles have been around for 25 years, and have that amount of age and wear on their platform - they won't be as strong as they originally were off the production line.
no vehicle from the 1990’s (except maybe a SAAB, and even then they’re not strong enough anymore and will fail a small offset frontal) can compete with a modern car in safety requirements.
Americans keep building bigger trucks and raising speed limits, then bemoaning how small vehicles aren't safe enough to survive an 80mph impact with a 10,000 pound vehicle.
You think these Keis are dangerous? Try riding a bike.
I'd love to ride a train to work. Play on my steam deck on the way home and not have to worry about getting stuck in traffic for hours. Visiting Washington DC and riding the metro everywhere ruined me, now I look at a five lane at road and say "This is bullshit!".
Even if you could get a new one, I don't think they'd meet US safety standards. Not even close.
Mind you, the US has to have stringent safety standards because we have gigantic vehicles in the first place.
Kei vehicles are exempt from most Japanese safety standards, because they're meant for city driving with max speeds of 40-60 kph and everyone driving them knows and acknowledges that you're just fucked if you get into an accident at speeds higher than that (and not doing great even at 40kph). It's an explicit trade of safety for lower cost
I call bs, a motorcycle provides way less protection. And which states are they illegal in? Lobbying and another money grab from corporations in our "free market" society. I would love one of these BTW.
Motorcycles have different licensing requirements, and come with caveat emptor that they are inherently unsafe in a motor vehicle accident.
That's not to say bikes don't have any safety at all... there is R&D that goes into making them safe in a collision... as safe as they can be.
I'm always shocked by this. In a world with seatbelt laws, crumple zones, backup cameras, pinch protection, etc we allow people to ride motorcycles that consistently get injured or killed. How they haven't gotten banned or stupidly restricted is beyond me. Even with a motorcycle lane, getting in a wreck at 75mph would be seriously bad.
In my state, I'm pretty sure you can ride a motorcycle legally with a helmet and a tshirt on, but get pulled over and fined for not wearing a seatbelt, lol.
And if you get it from Japan it's right hand drive so visibility of the incoming lane is crap as well...
Also, for Kei trucks specifically, cab over engine vehicles are unsafe in frontal collisions no matter what, even modern ones, that's why there's no regular passenger vehicle built like that anymore and it's only heavier vehicles (like moving trucks) that have this setup, they don't fall under the same safety regulations.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24499113/
Conclusions: Although we are generally concerned that drivers of small vehicles suffer more severe injuries, our results suggest that, for real-world accidents, K-cars provide similar safety for drivers involved in frontal collisions as standard vehicles in low delta V impact conditions.
Thank god someone said it. This comment makes the most sense of any of the comments I've read so far.
I’ve wanted one of these for decades but the options are pay out the ass for import fees or buy a 30 year old model, neither fee great. Hate that my government is apparently dead set on all of us driving massive trucks and SUVs over realist vehicles
It's almost as if car manufacturers and big oil write the laws to increase their own profit margins...
Hate that my government is apparently dead set on all of us driving massive trucks and SUVs spending thousands to money lenders, auto manufacturers, and dealerships over realist vehicles.
Doubly so if those parties are campaign contributors. Always follow the money.
What is the too small for road safety thing? That's pure bullshit, right? Smart cars are legal, how can these not be?
Give us cheap EVs and small trucks god damnit!!!
Sounds like some lack basic safety equipment like seat-belts.
It might be more about what vehicles share the road. SUVs and pickups tend to cause the majority of fatalities in crashes because their bumper height basically being non compatible with cars and vans and their larger blindspots... That design might not play particularly well with the Keis in crash situations.
But that being said SUVs and raised pickups are menaces to road safety across the board and we should be looking at phasing them out.
They don't pass US federal crash tests, probably because of the lack of crumple zone, so they can't be imported until they're 25 years old. Which doesn't make them any safer, but I guess rules are rules:
Because the trucks don’t meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, they’re legal to import only 25 years after having been manufactured. Then, it’s up to each state to decide whether to allow them on public roads.
I have one. No crumple zone. No airbags. Slow acceleration. Can't reach highway speeds. No headrest.
But it's my favorite car ever. I just treat it like I'm riding a motorcycle. I'm dead in an accident, so I try to be hyper-aware.
Uh oh, better ban them!
Way ahead of ya!
Map: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/kei-truck-legal-states
No recorded law: 28
Legal: 19
Illegal: 2
https://keitruckconnect.com/us-states-you-can-drive-kei-trucks/
State-Specific Legality of Kei Trucks: The permissibility of these compact, fuel-efficient vehicles varies across the U.S., largely due to differing safety and environmental standards.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in California? In the Golden State, Kei trucks can be driven on local roads, but not on freeways. This is due to the fact that many of these vehicles are not equipped with EPA-compliant engines for highway use. However, there are no restrictions on their use for off-road activities. Their off-road capabilities make them a popular choice for those in need of a compact work or recreational vehicle.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in Texas? In the Lone Star State, the situation is a bit different. Kei trucks are not street-legal due to the state’s stringent safety standards for passenger vehicles. These trucks often lack standard safety features such as airbags and seatbelts, which can make them less safe in an accident. However, there are exceptions to this rule. If the mini truck is used for agricultural purposes or has been modified to meet the state’s safety standards, it may be allowed on public roads. In these cases, the necessary permits and inspections are required. Laws Governing Kei Trucks in other States. The permissibility of Kei trucks varies greatly across the U.S. For instance, in Alabama, you can use mini trucks on any public roads except interstate highways. The speed limit for these vehicles is 25 mph.
Florida allows registered mini trucks to operate only on streets with a posted speed limit of 35 mph or less. In Louisiana, you can use mini trucks freely with a speed limit under 55 mph. North Carolina allows mini trucks to be licensed and used on all NC roads.
In Washington, mini trucks are street legal. Wyoming permits mini trucks on any roads except for interstate highways. It’s important to note that none of the 50 states allow mini trucks on interstate highways. This is due to safety reasons and the fact that most Kei trucks can only reach a maximum speed of 65 mph, which is lower than the speed limit on interstates.
My state did, otherwise I'd be driving one right now. A friend with a Subaru Sambar is being told hers should not have been allowed to be registered and is trying to fight it.
woulda been nice to know which state
for anyone else:
Map: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/kei-truck-legal-states
No recorded law: 28
Legal: 19
Illegal: 2
https://keitruckconnect.com/us-states-you-can-drive-kei-trucks/
State-Specific Legality of Kei Trucks: The permissibility of these compact, fuel-efficient vehicles varies across the U.S., largely due to differing safety and environmental standards.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in California? In the Golden State, Kei trucks can be driven on local roads, but not on freeways. This is due to the fact that many of these vehicles are not equipped with EPA-compliant engines for highway use. However, there are no restrictions on their use for off-road activities. Their off-road capabilities make them a popular choice for those in need of a compact work or recreational vehicle.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in Texas? In the Lone Star State, the situation is a bit different. Kei trucks are not street-legal due to the state’s stringent safety standards for passenger vehicles. These trucks often lack standard safety features such as airbags and seatbelts, which can make them less safe in an accident. However, there are exceptions to this rule. If the mini truck is used for agricultural purposes or has been modified to meet the state’s safety standards, it may be allowed on public roads. In these cases, the necessary permits and inspections are required. Laws Governing Kei Trucks in other States. The permissibility of Kei trucks varies greatly across the U.S. For instance, in Alabama, you can use mini trucks on any public roads except interstate highways. The speed limit for these vehicles is 25 mph.
Florida allows registered mini trucks to operate only on streets with a posted speed limit of 35 mph or less. In Louisiana, you can use mini trucks freely with a speed limit under 55 mph. North Carolina allows mini trucks to be licensed and used on all NC roads.
In Washington, mini trucks are street legal. Wyoming permits mini trucks on any roads except for interstate highways. It’s important to note that none of the 50 states allow mini trucks on interstate highways. This is due to safety reasons and the fact that most Kei trucks can only reach a maximum speed of 65 mph, which is lower than the speed limit on interstates.
I think someone who tried to do that might just disappear in this day and age. Don't ask gen-z, we won't know.
smaller, cheaper
Just say better.
\
They are better vehicles and the ad campaigns for 'bigger, more expensive' vehicles are finally hitting their stupid wall.
Now lets do SUVs next.
Used commonly in railway maintenance in Japan! This budget friendly truck is favoured by JR which want to cut budget on everything.
So people are tired of paying 60 to 90k for an f150 or a Dodge ram? You don't say!
How long until these are banned ?
Already are banned in a few states, relegated to being registered as off road vehicles only.
I saw in the article that they are legal in 19 states. I did not see the off road vehicle bit. Interesting, and thanks.
Regardless of bans, I’ve heard these cars are INCREDIBLY hard to import. Not only is getting permits for them difficult, but many places selling them domestically have gone around the laws regarding them, resulting in people’s Kei trucks being taken by the government and shipped back to Japan on their dime.
It’s not an easy thing to get into.
It's already happening in some states
How's my /keitruck subreddit doing? I got banned from reddit as a different username at the IP level so I have no clue. I was thinking about starting it again here on our own instance but it's been a struggle with de-googlelizing my life at the moment. But maybe someone else has one already? Time to leave that rotten place behind.
Man, I always thought the bigger SUVs looked like those oversized clown shoes, but the size comparison picture does drive home just how much dead air is in them.
I had a 2016 GMC Sierra. Cost $100 a week to take my son to daycare. Sold it and got a Sienna Hybrid and a classic truck for hauling shit. I hate all the technology in cars these days. My van tracks me and in the app it says "this feature can be disabled but the tracking will not stop" or to that affect. Garbage.
I too am fed up with all the data rape. Fuck off car companies, greedy assholes.
It's not just FUD either, this shit is actively happening NOW: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html
After you traded your Sierra for a Sienna, did you take a Siesta?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“My Kei truck can do everything a midsize pickup can do,” said Tyler Hiestand, who owns a home remodeling business in Pennsylvania.
Justin Merriman, who owns a brewery in San Antonio, uses his 1997 Suzuki Carry to haul kegs and cater events.
Most recently, Rhode Island state Sen. Louis P. DiPalma proposed legislation that would prevent the registration of additional Kei trucks in the future while grandfathering in current ones.
Because the trucks don’t meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, they’re legal to import only 25 years after having been manufactured.
Most states have no recorded law about Kei trucks, which often leaves guidelines up to local motor vehicle departments.
Even in states where Kei trucks are expressly legal, like Maine or Kansas, they’re often prohibited from highways or interstates where speeds exceed 55 mph.
The original article contains 667 words, the summary contains 135 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Mazda B series ready for a come back!
Okay I want a broke down one of these, an crate electric motor, and a lifepo4 battery pack
Because there’s a market for functional, minimalist vehicles that do a job and don’t require 8 or more years of payments. Trucks have become status symbols more often than not.
We have these trucks in Taiwan. It's quite literally the majority of the trucks on the road. These things are not allowed on the highways because a crash in them will result in likely death.
Instead they are only allowed on local roads where our speeds don't reach anything more than 40km/hr. Even then, the crashes I have seen in them, the driver is always hurt.
I know Lemmy likes to dream about owning a kei truck. But keep in mind that these trucks are not safe in crashes. They were never designed with the speeds that Americans see on a daily basis.
I just want a Kei car in Germany
How about an e-GMP version?
I'm sorry, why the fuck aren't these street legal in more than half of the states? The article says something about safety, but these are street legal all over Europe where we have stronger safety regulations.
Also there's something I can't put my finger on about the journalist choosing a hero image of the van losing its cargo.
Probably because it's not safe to drive them around giant pickups who can't see over their hoods
Europe and Japan all have freight trucks driving around, so I don't buy that. The fact that many states won't allow these is American truck manufacturing protectionism, nothing more. It's the same reason you can only get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck from Ford, Chevy, or Ram (chicken tax).
Ban anything bigger than a Kei?
Source
This is how we got in this mess, an arms race of trying to feel safe around larger and larger hunks of metal on the road. Americans just have to endanger everyone else for their own peace of mind.
And yet Smart cars are legal.
Ya. Everything’s expensive, so people buy the cheapest thing [with four wheels]. I don’t want folks on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum to think these are a safe option.
If(?) a ‘90s Honda sedan is safer but the Kei is new and looks cute, for the same price many will choose the less safe option.
Eight Californians die on our roads every day here and I can’t wait for some solutions. I really do empathize with everyone you readers care about (no oil companies, no just-for-funsies-truck manufacturers) - I hate the thought of crumpled and crushed human bodies.
Speed restrictions.
Kei trucks were designed for use in dense Japanese cities, which is why they also work in European cities. They are nimble but have a low top speed. You're not going 70 mph around a street corner for instance.
It would work in places like NYC for the same reasons, but remember that most of the USA is suburban or rural. You need vehicles that are capable of going fast if you're going to get on a highway.
A possible workaround is to have a separate class for these, like mopeds or scooters, which are road legal but are not highway legal.
That work around is what most states that explicitly legalized kei trucks have done, they can't enter roads over 55mph. It's a reasonable concession, you probably don't want to take one over 50mph anyway.
In Illinois, at least, your motorcycle has to be 150cc to ride on the interstate. A Chinese GY6 scooter might be able to do 50MPH with a tailwind. You'd get killed on the interstate on one of those, yet, fully legal to do it.
Protectionism.
Here in the states we have
legal corruptionlobbyists which the auto manufacturers pay to keep cheap vehicles from being used. And then the lawmakers claim safety concerns as the reason.They're not really safe. They are generally front heavy, so there is a risk of rolling forward, no crumple zone safety stuff, more often than not the front suspension is under the seat and if that breaks it would shoot up into the cabin, and on top of everything they are pretty slow. They have more in common with an off road Polaris than a traditional truck, which is to be expected because they were mostly designed to be farm trucks. I'd much rather be in an older s10 than a kei truck in the event of a crash (and s10's aren't very safe). I think I lot of why they are so popular these days is because there aren't really any light trucks anymore, and these are an alternative.
We should take a step back: why do we need all those safety standards in the first place? The reason is that we have such gigantic vehicles in the first place, and smaller ones simply cannot be safe on the same road. Level that all down and suddenly Kei cars are as safe as they need to be.
I'd still own one if they were just banned on highways. The risk is probably pretty low on low speed city streets, where these would be most useful.
They don’t meet the us safety standards. It could mean a lot of things like lacking 5mph bumpers, air bags, abs, etc.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t safe.
Different crash standards in US and Europe. Most companies don't even bother getting cars tested (designed?) in both because the market demands are so different.
Where exactly are these legal in Europe? I've never seen one, we have small-ish trucks (that get bigger every iteration) but not this tiny, that I know of. Pretty sure they're not legal in my country at least.
Traditionally they've been banned because they don't do well in crash testing, as they don't have crumple zones or airbags. Here's some testing from 2010 by the insurance industry arguing that they shouldn't be on highways.
For the hero image, that could possibly just be an attempt at a "fun" way of showing that they can carry a lot by mean of hyperbole.
"Look at that tiny truck, it's bursting with boxes!"