Ashton Kutcher Resigns From His Anti-Child Sex Abuse Organization Amid Danny Masterson Support Backlash
Ashton Kutcher Resigns From His Anti-Child Sex Abuse Organization
It occurs to me that Kutcher and co might not have had access to the court proceedings, testimony, and evidence, but might have had a lot of access to Masterton's side of the story.
It also occurs to me that being friends with people is complicated and that bad people emotionally loan shark a lot - maybe they felt obligated to send letters of support because they were being guilt tripped about all he'd done for them or because they think being a good friend is supporting no matter what (aka being an enabler).
All that said, Kutcher's a grown up adult who should have been able to predict that supporting a sex abuser is going to conflict with being involved in an anti-sex abuse organization.
It is a pattern, he had done the same thing before.
From Wikipedia:
"In November 2011, Kutcher received heavy criticism for his tweet in response to the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse scandal, calling the firing of Penn State football coach Joe Paterno "in poor taste". Kutcher subsequently turned over management of his Twitter account to his team at the Katalyst Media company."
Edit:
The more I read his past I find more disturbing statement that shows red flags.
"Bixler and others have cited additional ways in which Kutcher showed questionable behavior in the past, specifically pointing to a 2003 video of the actor speaking on his MTV show “Punk’d” about actress Hilary Duff. In the video, Kutcher says Duff, who was a minor at the time, is “one of the girls that we’re all waiting for to turn 18. Along with the Olsen twins.”"
danny was already convicted of the rapes when kutcher wrote the letter, saying that danny was an outstanding citizen.
The 8 people that downvoted you are the type of people that love cancel culture.
Ashton was shitty defending his friend. Ashton does not deserve the backlash he is receiving for the exact reasons you describe.
Then again, Lemmy was up in arms over the LTT situation, and all of my comments saying "hey, lets wait to hear both sides" were HEAVILY downvoted.
Nuance is dead, unfortunately.
I’m somewhat familiar with the case as I follow an ex-scientologist dude on yt (youtube.com/@GrowingUpInScientology) who was present in the court and reported on all nuances. According to him, Kutcher knew about Masterson’s drugging raping habit, also personally knew one of the women named in the case that prosecuted him (she was also present when Kutcher, upon finding her murdered girlfriend, instead calling 911, called his agent and Masterson).
Said letter’s general purpose to the judge is to ask for a lighter sentence in light of the jury decision, and they try to make him look like the nicest person ever walked on earth, always respecting woman and against all drugs that quasi questions the sentence as is. They deserve the backlash.
This is typical garbage. You're literally imitating the townspeople from the "change the racist flag" episode of South Park.
I don’t get what they were thinking, how could they write a character letter for a convinced rapist? “Ya but he never raped us!”
Someone in a comment a few days ago, who was themselves asked to write such a letter for someone they knew who was charged and ultimately convicted, made an excellent observation:
Defense attorneys are very likely to have requested those character reference letters way before the case even made it to trial. So it's entirely possible that Kutcher and Kunis wrote those letters long ago, based on information they had at the time, probably thinking the charges were unfounded.
Now, obviously, the easy solution to that would be if they were to come out now and tell whether that happened or not, and make clear what they think now. Which is what I would do, but I'm also not a Hollywoo celebrity with publicists and handlers and lawyers.
If I'm not mistaken, Kutcher's letter actually referenced the verdict.
I saw that comment too. It shed a lot of light on a topic that I personally don't know much about.
On the other hand, sometimes people can get weird about sticking up for their friends under any circumstances. My parents and brother are weird that way. One example - they know a rich white kid who killed an entire family by driving drunk. The kid's own family disowned him. They didn't help with his legal support, his twin brother cut ties with anyone who supported him, and he did time in the state prison. I don't know the details about the crime, but he had graduated from a flagship state university and was from a very wealthy family. Not "paid for a wing at the local hospital wealthy" but definitely, "has a regulation size basketball court in their basement" wealthy. He absolutely fit the profile of Brock Allen Turner (the rapist).
He still got 5-10 years in state. It must have been bad. My family stepped up to support this asshole.
My brother routinely visited him in prison and gave him a job when he got out. I don't really fault my brother for that. (OK - I judge him a bit. The kid was always an asshole and he killed people. But he did his time.)
On the other hand, my parents have nothing but good things to say about this guy and generally act like he was the victim of a huge conspiracy by the state. They were also offended that their own personal friend "Stanley" was sent to old people prison (nursing home) for "no reason" after he threatened to shoot his nephew. It was a credible threat, too. Stan is very well armed and had been going off his rocker for more than a few years.
tl/dr - my family are assholes but if they decide you're a ride or die friend it doesn't matter what you've done
This makes sense and it’s kind of what I thought has happened. No one could really be that unaware as to write a character reference for someone convicted and not expect backlash. But why wouldn’t they just say that then ? Why not make a statement saying the reference was old, and they’re shocked and disappointed someone they trusted could do such a thing.
That’s what I don’t understand
You're lying or spreading incorrect information.
If you're doing it maliciously: stop it.
If you're just an idiot, stop it.
But he mentors other actors! And he doesn’t take drugs!
I really don’t know what either of them were thinking. Rapists don’t need leniency, especially in this situation.
I'm sure that's not what was in his letter.
If your question is merely about public relations, sure it's a terrible move. But I think there's actually a more meaningful question underlying all this furor; what are the limits of friendship or love? What is one supposed to do when someone close does something horrible? Cast them aside? Pretend you never knew them?
Kutcher must have had some idea of the risk he was taking, but he did it anyway. I find that striking. For some people friendships can be like family. I feel like this is an older sentiment that doesn't find expression often today. Would you find it appalling if Masterson's mother spoke on behalf of his character, or should she likewise keep her distance?
I don't know. It all just seems more complicated and tragic than the typical social media mob can process.
They likely assumed it wouldn’t get out. They were banking on being able to use their celebrity to try and influence the outcome.
I knew a guy, generally a good guy, and he helped me out when I was young.
Anyways, he made some bad choices (namely cheating on his fiance with his childhood bestie), knocked said girl up, they got married... they had another kid... a few years later this relationship turned sour, and I was rarely hearing from him. I later learned he was living out of his car at times.
At one point during this mess he told me his soon to be ex wife invited him over one night, they slept together, then he woke up with the cops in his face and her accusing him of raping her last night.
I didn't know what to think of it at the time, and I still don't. The person I thought I knew never would've cheated on his fiance... surely he wouldn't have raped someone.
Unlike this story, the charges for the guy I know were dropped and he wasn't prosecuted, let alone convicted. Maybe it was just a ploy for a better outcome in the divorce? That seems to be the conclusion the police drew. If it had gone to trial and he'd been convicted... I probably wouldn't have written a similar letter? But also maybe it would've been in some ways good for the judge to see not just this person at their worst moments but at better moments? What if the evidence wasn't strong? What if I hadn't followed the case closely?
I haven't heard from this guy in years at this point, hence why I'm avoiding the word friend. However at one point, he was a friend ... and I don't find it so easy to reconcile the "person you know" with the "person you've been told you know"
I think it's more about that difficulty reconciling, than "he never raped me." If they weren't lying in their letters as well... maybe this should just be considered part of the process? Like, yes Masterson committed the crime, now who else was he? Did he contribute nothing to society except for being a vicious Hollywood predator? etc.
The scientology thing adds a whole other angle here...
Anyways, the point is it's easy to not understand why someone would do something, but that doesn't mean it's not understandable (it doesn't mean it's justified either).
All the letters have one thing in common though: they're overly saccharine and suspiciously dodgy (actually that's two things, sorry). It's like they're trying to describe a modern-day Beaver Cleaver.
But for real, I think announcing support for a rapist is different than feeling sympathetic for an old friend.
In this case, it's actually not.
Fuck websites that make the video follow you while you scroll.
Thanks for saving me a click bud
Just for that I'm giving them an anti-click!
Well, it is not as much as a "non profit fighting human trafficking" as they sell it. It is a tech org that sells facial recognition technology to law enforcement, that doesn't really help saving kids, but rather persecute consensual and voluntary sex workers.
It is what happens when tech Bros want to try and save the world without really listening to the vulnerable people they are trying to "help".
Now his hypocrisy was exposed for defending a convicted rapist because "he was nice to me" no shit Ashton, im sure Epstein was also nice to his friends.
that doesn’t really help saving kids, but rather persecute consensual and voluntary sex workers.
I'd love a citation on this if you've got it.
Listen to a recent episode about it from the podcast There's No Girl On The Internet.
Here's some sources too.
Sex, lies, and surveillance: Something's wrong with the war on sex trafficking: https://www.engadget.com/2019-05-31-sex-lies-and-surveillance-fosta-privacy.html
Real Men Get Their Facts Straight: https://www.villagevoice.com/real-men-get-their-facts-straight/
Ashton Kutcher Claims He Helped Cops Save Way More Sex-Trafficking Victims Than Authorities Say They've Found: https://reason.com/2017/02/15/ashton-kutcher-plays-sex-worker-savior/
The bogus claim that 300,000 U.S. children are ‘at risk’ of sexual exploitation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/05/28/the-bogus-claim-that-300000-u-s-children-are-at-risk-of-sexual-exploitation/
SEX TRAFFICKING Online Platforms and Federal Prosecutions : chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-21-385.pdf
What it is just used for prosecuting adult non-trafficed sex workers?? That's such a ridiculous perversion of the original mission statement, what a piece of shit. "Helping" sex workers by making them go to prison lol, which is the same way police "help" people with substance abuse problems. He was also an investor in Uber so it's adds up that he only cares for making money.
That’s such a ridiculous perversion of the original mission statement
This is a reason to request some form of evidence from OP, rather than assume the worst of the lauded organization
The reason Epstein was undetected or untouched was because he was nice. Getting along means not getting caught. Now that doesn't mean that everyone nice is up to something, but it means it is a reason he was able to infiltrate so many upper crust circles.
Wow, there a a lot of people here defending a rapist apologist.
Disappointing.
People are complicated. We can say he did good things for kids while also doing bad things like defending Masterson. We can admit it must be hard for him to condemn his friend while also still saying he still needed to.
People can do both good and bad things, we can say the good things he did are good while also saying he shouldn't have done bad things.
People like you are not good for my pitchfork and torch business.
He could have not written a letter of support or condemnation. Sometimes no comment is the right way.
I mean I feel one thing overweights the other.... Like it was a fucking piece of paper....yeah he shouldn't have done it. But I feel like whatever the org did matter more that a stupid written paper.
Did he actually do good though? Or did you assume?
It's a personal pet peeve of mine when articles reference documents with no link. I prefer to read stuff for myself and come to my own conclusions.
Link to the letters in question
#Asthon Kutcher's letter#
Honorable Judge Olmedo,
My name is Ashton Kutcher I am an actor, investor, philanthropist, and most importantly a father. I met Danny Masterson when I was 20 years old in 1998. He instantly became a friend, dedicated co worker, and role model to me. And has remained as such for 25 years.
As a friend, Danny has been nothing but a positive influence on me. He's an extraordinarily honest and intentional human being. Over 25 year relationship I don't ever recall him lying to me. He's taught me about being direct and confronting issues in life and relationships head-on, resolving them, and moving forward. Danny is a person that is consistently there for you when you need him. We've traveled around the world together, raised our daughters together, and shared countless family moments. Not only is he a good friend to me I've witnessed him be a good friend to others and the kind of brother others would be lucky to have.
As a role model, Danny has consistently been an excellent one. I attribute not falling into the typical Hollywood life of drugs directly to Danny. Any time that we were to meet someone or interact with someone who was on drugs, or did drugs, he made it clear that that wouldn't be a good person to be friends with. And for me, that was an implication that if I were to do drugs, he wouldn't want to be friends with me, which is something I never would want to risk or jeopardize. I am grateful to him for that positive peer pressure. He also set an extraordinaryy standard around how you tteat other people. There was an incident where we were at a pizza parlor and a belligerent man entered who is berating his girlfriend. We had never met or seen these people before, but Danny was the first person to jump to the defense of this girl. It was an incident he didn't have to get involved i:i but proactively chose to because the way this man was behaving was not right. He has always treated people with decency, equality, and generosity.
After 9-11 Danny was a huge advocate for support of the Firefighters effected by the event, rallying his friends and coworkers to pitch in however they could. Danny had his daughter a year before I had mine. He set a standard of being a hands on dad. We have spent countless
hours together with our kids and he is among few people that I would trust to be alone with my son and daughter. He's also a dedicated and loyal husband with unwavering commitment to his wife.
We have spent hundreds of hours working together. Danny takes his job seriously. He is kind, courteous, and hard working. He treated everyone from the grips to the teamsters to the actors to the caterers as equals. He showed up on time all the time and always pulled his weight. We have also traveled around the world together promoting our work. I can honestly say that no matter where we were, or who we were with, I never saw my friend be anything other than the guy I have described.
While I'm aware that the judgement has been cast as guilty on two counts of rape by force and the victims have a great desire for justice. I hope that my testament to his character is taken into consideration in sentencing. I do not believe he is an ongoing harm to society and having his daughter raised without a present father would a tertiary injustice in and of itself. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Best,
Ashton Kutcher
I don't ever recall him lying to me.
That's fair. I can't remember the last time I asked of my friends, or they asked of me, "Forcibly raped anyone recently?" I'm quite certain anyone who would forcibly rape another person would answer that honestly. Really this is all Ashton's fault. Had he just asked that question, we could have got this mess taken care of long ago.
I don’t ever recall him lying to me.
i take that to mean that danny told ashton what happened, and ashton knew and is still supporting danny.
He knew the truth. Even if he never outright asked, he knew in his gut that something was off with that scumbag. It wouldn't surprise me if he was also someone of questionable morals. You are the people you surround yourself with, i fully believe that.
#Kurtwood Smith's (who played the dad/Red Foreman) letter#
Dear Judge Olmedo:
My name is Kurtwood Smith. I have been a professional actor for 57 years, the last 43 years working primarily in film and television. It is as an actor that I came to know Danny Masterson.
I should mention that I am aware that Danny has been convicted of two counts of forcible rape and is awaiting sentencing.
I have known Danny since the spring of 1998, when we began filming the television show That 70s Show. We worked on the show for eight years and I consider Danny to be a good friend. Our friendship revolved around work. Primarily because of our age difference we didn't socialize much outside of work but I saw hi every day on the job whether we had scenes together or not.
I believe Danny to be a wonderful actor. When working together I always found him to be prepared, inventive, and responsive to suggestions from the director, myself, and other actors. Danny was also very enjoyable to be around. He has a quick wit and a good sense of humor. I always looked forward to working on scenes with Danny. I should mention that he was extremely popular with the crew. He was usually the first actor to learn every crew member's name, what their job was, and how it related to his job. Danny was the leader among his contemporaries in the cast. He was a tad older and much more experienced and he took that position seriously.
During the eight years we did the show. we never had the problems some other shows had with their younger cast members. After the show ended in 2006 I didn't see much of Danny, except for occasional events, until almost 10 years later, when I began playing a recurring character on The Ranch. Danny was one of the stars of the show. I was happy to be working with him again. It was also great to see his family. If you know Danny, you know his family.
I have known his parents and younger brothers and sister since we started work on That 70s Show. They are a very close knit family; they seem to care very much for each other and work to help one another succeed.
Danny was now married and the father of a beautiful little girl. It was a treat to spend some time with him at work and to be around him and his family. I had met his wife while we were still shooting That 70s Show, although they were not married at the time.
I found that Danny treated all women on the show with respect, not only the women in the cast, but women on the crew as well. It was my observation that he treated the woman he married in a respectful and loving way. Later, when we were working on The Ranch. I was aware that, not only were they a happy couple, but he was a wonderful father to his daughter.
I had the opportunity to watch Danny with his daughter. At the time she was maybe two or three years old. It was so clear how much he loved her and how delighted he was with her. He was so patient and easygoing with her. At one point, when she became fussy, he joked with her and made faces and she calmed down and was laughing. She clearly loved her daddy.
I consider Danny a talented, hardworking, giving actor. I have viewed him being respectful and considerate to those he has worked with. He has been a leader and positive force among his peers. He has seemed loving and caring, not only towards his wife and daughter, but his family at large.
For all the reasons I have mentioned I consider myself fortunate to have had Danny Masterson in my life.
Sincerely yours,
Kurtwood Smith
That’s a weird fucking letter. It doesn’t go far enough to fully endorse his character because of the repeated distance, but it’s too positive to be damning with faint praise. It reads like he wanted to help without going out on a limb
Just because I respected him much more as an actor as Ashton Kutcher- he was in my all-time favorite short film- this one hurts more.
#Mila Kunis's letter#
To The Honorable Judge Olmedo
I am writing this character letter on behalf of my dear friend, Danny Masterson, with whom I have had the privilege of sharing a significant part of my life. My name is Mila Kunis, and I am an actress, and I believe it is essential to share the remarkable influence Danny has had on my life and the lives of others.
I first met Danny during our time working together on That 70's Show, and from the very beginning, I could sense his innate goodness and genuine nature. Throughout our time together, Danny has proven to be an amazing friend, confidant, and, above all, an outstanding older brother figure to me. His caring nature and ability to offer guidance have been instrumental in my growth both personally and professionally.
One of the most remarkable aspects of Danny's character is his unwavering commitment to discouraging the use of drugs. His influence on me in this regard has been invaluable. In an industry where the pressures and temptations of substance use can be overwhelming, Danny played a pivotal role in guiding me away from such destructive paths. His dedication to avoiding all substances has inspired not only me but also countless others in our circle. Danny's steadfastness in promoting a drug-free lifestyle has been a guiding light in my journey through the entertainment world and has helped me prioritize my well-being and focus on making responsible choices. His genuine concern for those around him and his commitment to leading by example make him an outstanding role model and friend.
Danny's role as a husband and father to his daughter has been nothing short of extraordinary. Witnessing his interactions with his daughter has been heartwarming and enlightening. He prioritizes his family, education, and happiness above all else, demonstrating his unwavering commitment to being a loving and responsible parent. As a father, he leads by example, instilling in her values that reflect integrity, compassion, and respect for others.
Moreover, Danny has consistently displayed a profound sense of responsibility and care for those around him. He demonstrates grace and empathy in every situation, be it within the entertainment industry or in our personal lives. His steady support and understanding presence make him a reliable source of guidance and comfort for all of us.
Danny Masterson's warmth, humor, and positive outlook on life have been a driving force in shaping my character and the way I approach life's challenges. His unwavering commitment to being an exceptional older brother figure to me has had a transformative impact on my life, instilling in me a sense of self-belief and encouraging me to aim for greatness, but all while maintaining a sense of humility.
In conclusion, I wholeheartedly vouch for Danny Masterson's exceptional character and the tremendous positive influence he has had on me and the people around him. His dedication to leading a drug-free life and the genuine care he extends to others make him an outstanding role model and friend.
Please feel free to reach out if you require any further information or clarification.
Sincerely,
Mila Kunis
Thanks for posting. Mila Kunis has some pretty interesting interviews from the mid 00s about her experience working on the 70s show. In the one I saw she talked about how Danny encouraged then 20 year old Kutchner to French kiss then 14 year old Kunis, which he did. Kutchner was also there and said the same thing, emphasising how it was definitely Danny's idea to take the heat off of himself. She also has interviews discussing similar and possibly worse things. I wonder why she didn't include that in her letter...
Edit: found it https://youtu.be/ilHC3NhFW6Q?si=Ha3glLPAqhpYqoAG he says he was 19 but in his letter he says he was 20 when he met Danny.
As a friend, Danny has been nothing but a positive influence on me.
He’s an extraordinarily honest and intentional human being.
Over 25 year relationship I don’t ever recall him lying to me.
Not only is he a good friend to me I’ve witnessed him be a good friend to others and the kind of brother others would be lucky to have.
As a role model, Danny has consistently been an excellent one.
... danny's an amazing man who walks on water... the serial rapist thing isn't the real him...
I thought this one was the most interesting as it addresses his crimes head on.
#Debra Jo Rup’s (who played the mom/Kitty Foreman) letter#
Dear Judge Olmedo,
My name is Debra, I am 72 years old, and I live in the mountains In Western Massachusetts. I am writing this letter on behalf of Danny Masterson.
I have known Danny and his family since 1998 when I began working with him on "That 70's Show". I am aware that Danny is convicted of 2 counts of forceable rape and, though it is so hard for me to wrap my head around this, I respect the law and the court. I always have.
But I would like to tell you about the young man I know. Danny was the leader of the "kids" on our show. He had the most acting experience and was a little bit older. He was well liked and very respected. One of the first things Danny did with them was to sit them all down (he had a little meeting) and had them al make a pact that no one would do drugs because of the nature of our show. The spotlight would be on them and he wanted everyone to succeed. I remember thinking that it was such a smart thing to do and something I never would have thought of. As a result, you never saw them in the tabloids. Danny made sure of that and I was so appreciative. They all kept their word.
Danny was always respectful and kind. On show days when the camera crew would come in, Danny was the one that shook each camera man's hand before we started. He knew everyone's name, where they lived and about their families. I did not. He was loved. Over the years Danny is one of the few that came to support me by seeing my shows in the theater. He brought his family sometimes. And it was a joy. And so appreciated. One night we went to dinner, he had dragged another cast member, his father and some friends to see me, and it was dark and late after theater. I had to get home in New York City so Danny called an Uber, paid for it and escorted me out. There are so many instances of things like this. He was just like that. Respectful and kind.
Wilmer Valderama asked the cast of 70's Show to go to his high school graduation. Danny and I were the only ones to go. I remember looking at him and dying. It was outside, in the valley, really hot, and he was a "V" alphabetically. We laughed so hard during that. It's a really nice memory. Danny just always showed up to support.
I knew Danny's family through work. I had worked with his brother Chris on another show and always saw his family hanging out in his dressing room. Danny's dressing room was above mine and Danny loved music. Many times I found myself going upstairs to ask him to turn it down and was always greeted with an apology, a grin and an instant fix. It's these little things that come to mind when I think of Danny. I later did his show ''The Ranch", he called me at home in Massachusetts. I hadn't done tv in awhile, and he offered it to me. I was so grateful and touched. I loved hearing him play with his daughter in the hallways - it was an awesome giggle.
So thank you for allowing me to-tell you about the Danny Masterson that I love I just read this letter back. It's so hard for me to express o paper but I understand that he is facing a lengthy sentence and I really wanted to tell you about these moments. He would take the time to do it for me.
Sincerely,
Debra Jo Rupp
These letters are wild. Why? Why get involved? He's been convicted. Just stay out of it. Now you simply look like you're defending a convicted rapist. I don't care if it was my best friend. I'm not going to write a letter for a rapist asking for the judge to go easy on him because he was always nice to me.
I wonder how many others were raped by Danny but didn't get their day in court?
That’s the real question, highly likely there’s others.
His sex abuse organization was anti-child?
I mean, I guess that's somewhat positive..?
He and Kunis are learning the hard lesson of “shutting up is free.”
It was stupid of them to say anything. They aren't in the court room. Their letters aren't going to affect the decision nor sentencing.
Their letters aren't going to affect the decision nor sentencing.
Lmao… What exactly do you think the point of pre-sentencing character references in criminal proceedings is? Please be specific.
The fact that Ashton was not aware about the numerous sexual assaults coming from the church of scientology is really damming. Sure, he can be biased about long term friend/coworker, it's messed up to write charcter letters after the victim testimony when the went in to the details of what Masterson did, but to turn a blind eye to scientology? And you care about victims? About. trafficking? About SA? Fuck off.
Clearly they were never serious about Thorn and was likely only a PR move. At least Debra Jo Rupp and Kurtwood Smith haven't spent the last couple years telling people to believe victims. Still gross, but Ashton put him self on this pedestal. Kunis to a lesser extent, since she wasnt a founder. But I am just so disappointed at all of these people.
Why was he running a sex abuse organization that was specifically anti-child in the first place?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who read it that way.
I mean wouldn't it be better that they don't want children in their sex abuse organization?
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
I’d still write it. I wouldn’t excuse what they did. I’d simply point out that at least one person on the outside knows a different side of that person.
I don’t know the details of Danny’s case. I’m sure that he is an abhorrent human that deserves to be punished. I’m not trying to excuse what he did. I’m simply saying that if I were in Ashton’s shoes. I would have done the same thing.
Yeah, no. If my best friend, if my brother were convicted by a jury of their peers multiple times for forcibly raping women, I'm out. It doesn't mean I'd lobby for the punishment to be harsher or anything, but like, they did it. The judge and jury heard all the evidence and testimony and determined he's guilty. Keep in mind, he committed a pre-meditated crime that probably traumatized the poor victim. For life. Then he did it again.
AFTER knowing that, if you insert yourself into the Justice process and go out of your way to write a letter trying to use personal anecdotes/celebrity/money/fame/goodwill to enable them to get a lighter sentence... you're a piece of shit. The innocent victims don't have celebrities on their side putting their thumbs on the scale...
I don’t have many friends.
Yeah, I can see why.
I don’t have many friends. The few I have I like a lot, and would go to great lengths to help them. If one of my friends asked me to write a letter to a judge. Even if I knew they did it. I’d write that letter. I would do and have done far crazier, and morally dubious thangs than that to help or protect a friend.
What about if your friend raped children? Would you still be ok with that? Or are you only OK with it if they rape adults? Just trying to work out exactly where people like you draw the line.
PS: You didn't need to include the part about not having many friends, it's heavily implied by the rest of your comment.
I’ve already said this several times. It’s not about being “ok” with any of it. What it is about, is just because someone does horrible doesn’t just erase years positive experiences. It’s ok to love someone from a distance.
Part 2 of your question is a straw man fallacy, and I’m not going to even going to entertain that question.
You’re quip about friends tells me that you’re either young, or unsure of what a friend truly is. I’m not talking about people you know and see sometimes. I’m talking about if you were in jail and needed 500 bail at 2 am. How many people could you call that aren’t family?
Turns out that being against rape in 99.9% of cases isn't good enough.
Correct.
I wonder how Masterson feels now when he looks at his young daughter and knows that there are people like him in the world.
What he did to those girls, someone could do to his. I hope he spends all his time in jail thinking about that.
I also hope that nothing bad ever happens to her, just for clarity.
Really terrible. Ashton has done so much to help children. And because his friend did bad the Internet bullies him away from doing more good. Maybe we should spread positivity instead of hate.
Its more that he supported his rapist friend to try and get his sentence reduced through a character statement. He could have, you know, not supported a rapist just because they had good times making a show together 15 years ago.
I don't know a lot about the guy but his involvement with that organization was probably the only thing I respected about him.
Do you know anything about the charity? Or just what his PR team sold you?
Fair question.
I guarantee their PR team warned them against sending those letters, and they ignored them. The arrogance of the wealthy.
dude is a creepy MFer
People defending their friends are now "creepy." The internet has ruined people's brains.
When your friend is a rapist, yeah that's fucking creepy, and it's creepy you don't think so.
If I found out tomorrow that my best friend was a rapist, not only would I be speaking out against him, he'd no longer be my friend.
It's not the "defending their friend" thing people are upset with, I think you know that. Using reductionism to try and make people you disagree with look like they're sticks in the mud "for just defending their friend!" instead just makes you look deranged for apparently glossing over or completely not caring about the "leniency for rapists" bit.
I always thought Masterson seemed like a creep, so I didn't pay much attention to this case when I heard about it.
Just read the article and another one it linked to regarding sentencing. It sounds like most of the jury voted for acquittal but it wasn't unanimous so the judge declared a mistrial and then retried him.
Anyone know how this isn't considered double-jeopardy? It sounds like the very definition of it to me. He was put on trial. The prosecutor was unable to secure a conviction, so the judge gave them another chance?
But weeks after the trial finally started in late 2022, the judge declared a mistrial after the jury remained deadlocked. Jurors in last year's case had leaned in favor of acquittal on all three counts against him -- voting 10-2 on one count, 8-4 on another and 7-5 on the third, but were unable to reach a unanimous decision, leading to the mistrial.
US Fifth Amendment excerpt:
nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb
That's how a jury trial works. You need all 12 to agree, otherwise it is a hung jury and declared a mistrial. It is then up to the prosecutor to retry the case if they want to.
It isn't double jeopardy because the trial didn't come to a decision. If all 12 jury members agreed, one way or another, that is the end of it. At least for that/those counts.
A split decision sounds like a decision to me. The prosecutor failed to convince a jury of the defendant’s guilt. I wonder how many times someone can be tried as long as the prosecutor is able to seat at least one sympathetic juror.
I could understand retrying the case if it was found out one of the jury was on the take, but this sounds exactly like the kind of thing the 5th amendment is supposed to stop.
Oh, we didn’t pick a good enough jury to convict him this time. Let’s try again.
Mistrials don't incur double jeopardy, they invalidate the trial as if it didn't happen. It's how the law works.
A mistrial is not a definitive outcome. Not-guilty or guilty would be the definitive outcome.
People need to "lighten the fuck up" about rape?!
Isn’t he part of the illegal alien and sex traffic problems from Hollywood?
Quite the claim to not post any evidence of outside of a letter written to the judge from a friend which might stop his friend from spending the rest of his life rotting in jail instead of getting rehab like the rest of the world does
Life sentences are inhumane
I don't know, this person has done a lot of decent things in his life. I'm not inclined to judge him by his worst decision.
While I would tend to agree, if I'm reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing... meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.
He's also an old friend.
I don't believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn't get it, doesn't make them monsters or rapists by proxy.
If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.
Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn't all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.
Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our "justice," lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people... that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee's failure to confirm their biases.
Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn't be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it's convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.
In other words, whether Ashton Kutcher is actually guilty of anything does not matter, because a "bad look" is like a virus, and conviction enough for people to feel justified in upending his life / work. So proud of this brave new neo-puritanical world we live in today. /s
What's the new, hip term for witch-hunt in 2023?
The letters are typically asked for before conviction as a just-in-case. He's still asking for leniency for his rapist buddy I just thought I'd clarify that little bit.
Although I tend to agree, I think this was also the correct decision. He would have distracted from the good work the organisation does.
While the organization might do good work, I see far too many red flags in their demands. They are lobbying against end-to-end encryption for chat messages. The argument is that child abusers can hide behind encryption. While this is true, a ban would lead to no privacy for everyone.
The real-life equivalent would be mandatory microphones for everyone so authorities could catch child molesters more easily. Good cause but horrible methodology. And of course, if they succeed, criminals will move to other, maybe their own-built, messaging systems that still have encryption.
https://www.thorn.org/blog/encryption-trend-threatens-child-safety-gains/
Get out of here with your reason. That's not what the internet is for. Now, would you like a torch or pitchfork?
I'll take the Torchfork
Any way we can combine the two and make a flaming pitchfork? Maybe a knife-wrench kinda configuration?
I prefer the tar and feathers.
That was reasonable? They didn't even respond to my comment but instead just gave a boilerplate enlightened centrist response which is meaningless.
I think it's fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That's a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.
This is a pretty serious accusation. Just because he wrote a character letter does not mean he is actively involved in covering up a crime, that's a gigantic leap.
And what would that be? A person who vouches for his friend? Someone who misjudged another person's character, a mistake presumably you'd never make?
No, you think it's fun to judge and it's your excuse to feel morally righteous and superior. You've made some accusations and backhanded disparagement based on what info? How is any part of it "fair"?
The judge misspelled "Actual Rapist Allen Turner, formerly known as Brock Turner"
Tell your friends! He's going by his middle name now
His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.
Condemn him? No. Judge him? Yeah, a little bit.
This isn't his worst decision, there is a high probability that he disturbed a murder scene, didn't report it until the next morning which ruined a police investigation allowing the killer to go free and kill again...
I mean... He tocuhed a door knob and didn't know it was a crime scene to report.
Oh wow, sounds like he freaked out and confided with Masterson that night. Interesting context in light of this character letter controversy and as far as their relationship goes.
Dammit, now I'm about to go down the rabbit hole after watching that video, so thanks
OK, now think of this from the perspective of the victims of Danny Masterson's crimes - what do you think they feel about Ashton's letter of support?
That we can say Kutcher was wrong for supporting Masterson while also acknowledging that Kutcher has done good things. People aren't good or bad, they are a mixture. Condemn the bad traits and praise the good traits.
So it’s ok that he rapes people? Vomit
Of course not. You know that, I know that, everyone reading this knows that, you are just being a troll. Stop, or get blocked.
Yea, I get it, some will disagree but, in the end, I'm a bigger fan of "call out culture" than "cancel culture". The former gives the person a chance to course-correct.
But "cancel culture" makes keyboard warriors and the Twitterverse feel saintly, holier-than-thou and powerful because it takes just a few tweets to mess people up! And look righteous while doing it!
Maybe they are valuable members of society after all! /s
Is that quote taken directly out of his letter supporting his rapist buddy?
Unfortunately, it doesnt matter how much good you’ve done. People love witch hunts. Whether this is his worst decision or not, it’s one decision, now the rest are erased.
He’s done good and would continue to, but people are happier if he is never heard from again rather than him helping kids for the rest of his life.