Yeah, let's stop with this "don't judge people for their poiltics" bullshit
Yeah, let's stop with this "don't judge people for their poiltics" bullshit
106 comments
-
-
America is waking up to the reality, as Germany once did, that 1/3 of their population wants to kill another 1/3 while the other 1/3 watches and stands by.
-
The tools that were used to drive Germany to madness are much the same we're seeing today. A lot of that first 1/3 is being bombarded with mass media saying "Black people are trying to kill you! Leftists are trying to rob you! The Evil Biden Government is trying to transgender your children!" over and over and over for decades on end.
This isn't just Americans waking up one morning and deciding to be MAGA chuds. It is a product of two generations of intense right-wing propaganda through every avenue of mass media.
-
It's also Americans not doing anything about it for the last two generations. The right-wing propoganda machine has been a threat for literally my entire life, but it has been allowed to complete its ultimate goal without anyone actually trying to stop it.
-
That's the one thing that gives me hope: their views changed radically but only in one generation through concentrated, directed effort. Calling people idiots or sheep misses the point that this is the natural result of exposing people to this shit daily.
Nobody in history ever thought people are inherently rational and considerate, society is held together through a culture that reinforces it. The tools of the information age can rapidly and drastically shape our society however we want it, we just need to pull them out of the hands of those billionaires burning civilisation to the ground for their own benefit.
-
-
Your message is true, but your stats are off. Trump only got something like 15% of the total voting population in the US and won by like 1.5% of the vote. Studies say that historically, 60% of Americans are more liberal than the government - and that includes when Democrats have been in power.
Conservatives are a minority, and the MAGA crazies even more so. They just shout really loudly to convince everybody that they're a majority. The real issue is that 50% or so of Americans simply don't care enough to vote against fascism or care more about maintaining the facade of order than freedom. Like MLK said, the biggest threat to equal rights isn't the white supremacist, but the white liberal who cares more about a negative peace than true justice.
-
Your numbers don't seem right to me. He got ~45% of registered voters and ~28% of adults. Where's your 15% from?
-
-
-
There's a tiny part of me that's willing to allow that the people voting for him in 2016 just wanted to make their protests heard. Even though he was very, very clear who he is and what he stands for, people were struggling and made themselves heard in the shittiest possible way.
But the people who voted him in again, knowing exactly how it's going to shake out could all drop dead at once and I wouldn't shed a tear. Fuck every one of those cunts.
-
Hot take:
The problem isn't the other middle class people who've been convinced to wear a different color hat.
The problem is the oligarchs who've been plotting to take over and destroy the power of the people by dismantling the government. The people who are actively doing that exact thing while the ignorant masses engage in tribalism and attacking people for voting.
Engaging on this topic is just furthering the distraction tactics. The people who're actively working to destroy the government or implementing policies targeting minority populations are not your neighbors or anybody that you will run into on social media.
-
Ok but I still partially blame the people who voted the oligarchs into power
-
Sure, but as a leftist who grew up in a deep red area, I can tell you that those people are, largely, uneducated and ignorant.
It is because of that ignorance that they're able to believe the lies that led them to acting the way that they did. The people who bear the majority of the responsibility and blame are the ones who know that they're taking advantage of and cultivating that ignorance.
I get to hear, in real time, the propaganda engine work on these people (which includes most of my family). I see how topics are framed, by media personalities, into palatable actions. As I'm writing this, there's a podcast playing at my job, where DOGE is being celebrated for finding 'fraud and abuse'. I know, for a fact, that the listeners don't have a high school education and have no idea how the government's payment systems work... but the radio is telling them that DOGE is doing good work.
So, how can they know any better? These are not people who're ever going to continue their education and their media literacy skills were developed in the 80s. They're simply not equipped to handle the scale of lying that exists in the modern world.
On the other hand, the person talking, has multiple degrees and has served in the federal government. That person KNOWS they're lying but continue to do so because it is profitable. I find people like that to be far more culpable. They're lying for profit (grifting, to use an over used term) and their lies reach millions of voters.
Then you have the people who benefit from the lies. Trump and Elon know that they're dealing with ignorant people, they know exactly how to use populist rhetoric at public events. While, in private, they're using the power that they've obtained to corruptly enrich themselves and their sycophants.
Direct your ire at the people who're actively profiting off of lies and corruption. Help to educate the other people around you when they're being fed lies.
Attacking your neighbor while Elon and Trump ransack the government is not only pointless, it's completely counter-productive and ensures that we'll never unify against this kind of power grab.
-
If you want to come to that conclusion in a political postmortem 20 years from now I'd fully encourage it.
The problem is that right now the house is burning down and shaming people for playing with matches won't save us.
-
-
-
Don't assume someone who voted for Trump lacks morals or is racist etc.
They could just be really stupid. Did you think of that?
-
-
Consider average intelligence, consider now that half of them are dumber than that.
-
-
Not sure why you're being downvoted for being right. If the people who voted for Trump:
- Had 8 years to see exactly what Trump was like, and
- AREN'T wealthy business owners
...what other conclusions are there?
-
Hate
-
Cruelty is their primary motivation
-
-
Im not American, so here is an outside viewpoint.
Being frustrated with cost of living going up Being ridiculed for just beng a republican voter Being frustrated with the country not putting their own tax paying citizens first
And now everyone on reddit and lemmy making it even worse Im affraid you'll lose again. Jist keep alienating a majority of your people and see how it goes.
-
Or just disinformed
-
-
-
I see three main types of people that voted for trump, the easily duped, racists and the rich that don't care how they get their money. If someone tells me they voted for this guy I loose all respect for them. I'm sure that there's some one issue voters out there but I would lump them into the first category. I have even less respect for someone that doesn't like trump but did not vote.
I'm at a loss of what to even do. I would like to see the dnc grow a pair of balls and take on these monsters. I would like to see the dnc organize a national boycott on any company even closely tied to musk and trump. The protests are fine to show solidarity but the people in charge will not see it. Hitting the companies in the wallet that are helping musk and trump destroy our country would be a good cause IMHO.
-
There's also the "vote to hurt people I don't like" group:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida
-
I knew one of those types. The first Trump campaign he straight up said he wanted to see the US destroyed and that's why he was voting. He used to be a run-of-the-mill liberal dude but got caught up in stupid 4 Chan and shit and became a huge mysogynist and racist. It was sick watching him turn and become emboldened over the years.
-
-
I've lived all around this country and I think the biggest bucket that you exclude is "people who grew up their whole lives in Republican communities that also don't care about politics nearly as much as chronic Internet users". these people go to the booths and go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ before voting for whoever's campaign banner they saw around town more or whoever they heard a relative mention. these people are everywhere. they aren't even bad people or misinformed dummies, per say, just willingly uninformed. for a large swath of Americans, being Republican is just the default unfortunately.
-
-
I think this will be the dynamic that ultimately, finally, eventually-in-God-knows-how-long, bubbles over and hopefully addresses this nonsense. Enough people will slowly reach where many of us already are: just doooone. Out of patience and understanding.
-
If you can't understand why people voted for trump you never had patience or understanding in the first place. Calling someone a word over and over does not make you right or what you say true.
-
-
History doesnt judge people
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
The people leading the propaganda are blamed
-
And yet, so many people's German grandfathers refused to talk about what they did during the war. Despite the lack of judgment.
-
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters
Maybe if folks had been shamed into not supporting the Nazis and their hollow, superficial, hateful "solutions" we wouldn't even have an example with such obvious and clear parallels to draw upon.
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
Nobody should be (or seems to have been) fucking absolved for handing their nation to fascists, either.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/german-civilians-forced-see-real-11908228
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa1084913
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn556026
edited to correct unclear wording
-
History does judge people. The nazi soldiers have caught a ton of grief, even in my lifetime. The israli soldiers currently serving are frequently compared to nazi soldiers both in meme and article form.
Yes the leaders get most (and should) of the blame. But people do remember the other people making it possible. (google the Yaroslav Hunka scandal for a example).
Ill probably be considered a fascist myself in my descendants eyes, having not run for office or started/participated in a violent revolution. (I am holding out hope I might still be able to participate at least).
-
-
Naw, I'll judge people based on a person to person basis and not just use generalized lazy ass blanket judgement on anyone whom isnt in my social/political/religious group. Stop adding to the problem.
-
"I want X bad thing to happen"
"Hey, this guy wants X to happen. That's bad."
"STOP GENERALIZING!!1!"
-
You're doing it again brother. Its best to try and relax.
-
I'd agree that your reasoning makes sense but is reductionist when talking about America's two party system.
I grew up in a conservative town and I personally knew lots of people that were truly, deeply compassionate people. Christian in the truly radical, hippy sense of the word. Except they had one issue, abortion made them sad.
It wasn't any ignorance of the issue or believing in satanic baby eating, but a philosophy arbitrarily picked by their community. They didn't hate anyone getting an abortion, they just had some utopian vision of a world where they didn't happen.
Since abortions were framed as murder and one party promised to ban abortions and the other party expand access, they were told there was only one ethical choice.
So their one line of thought trapped them. I could argue up and down the ballot on issues they agreed with, how the economy should be handled, prison reform, etc... but that one stupid idea held them back.
They're still good people, and voted 3rd party a few times when the mood struck them. But I don't think wanting one bad policy (with the best intentions) makes them bad people.
So I'd say yes. In that instance, with those people, it's generalizing to say they were on board with any of the hateful policies. They were held hostage by their single issue, and the right's rhetoric made damn sure they could never wriggle out.
-
-
If you are a liberal don't care about your opinion.
-
Go back to X
-
I kinda think you do.
-
Well, I'm not a liberal but I agree with that post
-
Thanks for letting us know this vital information.
-
Either your username is meta, or you need the Billy Goats Gruff to bring some clarity to your life under the bridge.
-
Which is why nobody cares about GOP opinions and why most of the world thinks you are retarded. Like it or not, you live with people different from you, and you need to learn to play nice and compromise. I'm not saying to give up your morals completely, but meet in the middle and come up with something that works for both of you.
-
Might want to calibrate your use of "liberal" for your audience.
-
-
history won't do shit if it's controlled by tech billionaires until they destroy the planet.
-
No. Liberals are not in a position to judge. Genocide is the worst possible crime. And at the very least, every Harris voter decided genocide support wasn’t a dealbreaker. So they know exactly what it is to set their morals aside to support their demagogue. They’ve lost any right to claim the moral high ground.
Now if you didn’t vote for either Harris or Trump? Judge away.
-
Can't win on your single issue? Then vote to make everything worse, including the issue that you use as a cudgel to disguise your authoritarian power fantasy!
As a trans person, and I mean this to my core, go fuck yourself. Gaza will be a parking lot now because of tankies like you. It's impossible to put pressure on our government to help Palestine if we're busy trying to keep our own country afloat and stop new genocides and horrors within our own borders. Shame there was no "perfect option", or whatever bullshit you're peddling.
-
And if you voted for Trump, you supported the Palestinian genocide and the genocide of American minorities through the silent violence of the oppression of Project 2025 (as well as everything else in there such as the destruction of the American educational system), increasing the global power of Russia by appointing a known Russian asset to the presidency of the US (and all the other Russian assets that he was going to put into power through his cabinet), and the murder of potentially millions of Americans through another pandemic event, like Trump did during COVID.
And if you voted for neither? You were okay with either option happening. You didn't care enough about genocide to prevent other genocides from occurring as a consequence of the election.
-
Nah man One party is going to do a genocide And the other party is going to do a genocide, is fascist and will probably do more genocides
-
-
I wonder if you'll be the first to take me up on this challenge. It's mostly been ignored so far, but one person claimed it wasn't possible for them to do because they lived in Japan, which was amusing:
If I challenged you to send an email to a prominent person- a celebrity or politician or business leader- to ask them to use their access to the media to speak on behalf of Palestine every time you decided to discuss last year's election, would you do it?
-
-
The most successful tactic of the right has been judging the left for their politics - "woke" etc. This works because it's "othering" - makes the left part of the out group that people don't want to be a part of. The left needs to be similarly unabashed, even though othering is kind of against the whole point of being on the left.
But it needs to be more fun and less serious than this post. Why is there no "screaming maga" meme? Surely there's plenty of those images, and more.
-
Putting aside whether or not that's anathema to the cause, I'm not sure how you'd "other" them in a meaningful way. The reason it works for the right is that they target groups who's members are publicly visible and can't voluntarily leave (LGBT+, minorities, foreign religions, etc...)
If you target a group of people for their beliefs (something not overtly visible), they can either relabel their group or plausibly claim their beliefs differ in some way. We already do this for fascists and nazis, but very few people are going to outwardly admit to these ideals. Now they'll just say they're "extra-constitutional", "alt right", "Christian patriot", or any other hat a bigot wants to swap out for far right authoritarian.
You can't "other" them where they already proudly claim a majority (white + Christian) so what are you left with?
-
-
-
We voted for a better future for the working class.
-
Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many.
Get ready for more inflation and less food and healthcare access
The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns.
Great, prepare for Palestine to not exist at all anymore.
I understand that the Democrats are also the party of the corporate oligarch overlords and are also fucking us over, but at this point supporting Trump is just throwing the baby out with the bath water, my guy. You have bad, and extra bad, and you think extra bad is better for some reason?
-
-
It's not necessarily a lack of education, I know a really smart surgeon, generally very reasonable, who fell for this stuff.
If you've never seen the echo chamber this guy lives in you don't understand how bizarre it can be.
On the surface there's a lot of influencers that can say truly regressive lies, and make them sound innocuous. They say it with such confidence and mixed in with truths and half truths. It can be hard to see the fallacies and misinfo even if you know what to look for.
There's a constant drip of cherry picked stats and talking points designed to reinforce what he's feeling. In the back of his mind he knows those support his case but he doesn't really have an original source to reference. He tries to say them with the same confidence that he heard them with, but they're not based in reality and look pretty ugly without the professional window dressing.
There's videos where people do deep dives on this stuff (I can try to find one if you want). You could probably also experiment with it yourself if you have a VPN and a fresh/virtual device to make an account on.
-
-
-
The sheer fact that your whole comment can be refuted and countered from just cursory searches and looking outside of curated news spaces means that you are either arguing in bad faith or you just choose to ignore reality. Either way your stupid decision is going to fuck over a huge number of people and that includes your son because trump has never worked a day in his life. He has bankrupt over 250 businesses, including a casino so he's a shit businessman. Your inability or unwillingness to face reality is going to be responsible for everything that trump fucks up over the next, hopefully only, 4 years.
-
Since calling you what you are is not allowed:
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I cannot see how you can look at this current administration and think that this is better in any way.
-
I'm not going to argue with you because there's enough other people doing that. What I am interested though is a few statistics about yourself to compare to what you're saying.
You claim to be part of a group who " works hard for a living"
Just wondering what your line of work is and yearly income.
Have you always voted conservative? does your family vote conservative or are you the outlier?
What social media platforms do you use?.
What region of the USA do you live in? Normally blue/ red?
Thanks!
-
-
-
-
-
I agree that the Biden administration's policies where not good enough to address the real issues facing working people in the country. They were pulling from the same neoliberal economic playbook that both parties have used and has been shown over and over again to increase inequality instead of decreasing inequality. Biden and Democratic leadership think we are still in the world economic situation of the 1990's and refuse to believe otherwise.
However Trump on the other hand doesn't even have a plan. He was correct in saying "The Economy sucks", but had no other plan to fix the system besides "Drill Baby Drill" and "Let the Oligarchs decide how the economic system works". Harris might have been an out of touch elite, oblivious to economic reality. But Trump is pain and destruction incarnate and will only cause more pain and destruction during his tenure.
The reality is the US Empire is dying and it can either go gracefully or with pain and anger while it takes the rest of the world with it.
-
It's going with pain an anger, but thanks to Trump's trade wars the rest of the world is finally distancing itself from the USA enough that we might not be dragged down with you.
That's the one silver lining to all this: America's been on a clear path to fascism since GWB at the latest, but now that it's finally here it's being managed by an outright moron. Trump's stupidity will be the one thing that saves the world.
-
-
I 100% agree with your critiques, but I don't see how Trump was going to solve them. However, I'm pretty disappointed that you're at -20 at the time I'm making this comment (thanks blue maga groupthink), so I'm upvoting you to try and turn the tide. But all standards, you have a well written comment that should not be downvoted into oblivion.
-
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I'm all in for criticizing Biden' support for Israel and I think that the Democratic Party prefers saying "vote for us, we are not the other guy" to actually addressing the glaring issues in wealth distribution, but... Trump spectacularized the erasure of trans people from official documents and the deportation of migrants, he is dismantling that little welfare the US has to eat it up with his oligarch buddies and you still think that he is somehow better? I don't know if you're a bot, a shill, or simply lack the political education needed.
-
-
its not like voting for scum like biden and harris is moral when they murder thousands of children for aipac money. trump is doing exactly what dnc does to poor non-white countries. now cry because you were happy when done to someone else.
israel has done far far worse warcrimes than russia in ukraine but still no mention or criticism of it in western media. everyone crying only now and silent during biden is also selfish racist hypocrite.
-
I thought we stopped doing that that in 2003
-
it's really not about blaming voters anymore. that ship sailed. i had been calling for a conservative purge for the last 10 years but nobody listened to me. i don't know if we can stop what's coming now.
-
History will look back at the American empire and judge all its complicit civilians equally. It's Democrat vanity that makes them think they're not in the same genocidal boat as Republicans. You may think of yourselves in another class, but your politicians were complicit in the same crimes.
-
The people who are getting real mad over Republican voters don't really care that Rs and Ds have the same foreign policy. The frontier of empire is coming home, but acknowledging that would mean acknowledging we export suffering.
-
-
You have the freedom to decide, you do not have the freedom from the consequences on your decisions.
-
Stop, you dont need to dive bomb them, gal!
-
Exactly why the vote is secret
106 comments
People seem to be forgetting the mod reminder, and I'm tired of deleting posts and banning people and I do not want to lock the thread, so here is a reminder of the reminder.
Edit: Well, this is what happens when people can't play nice. I'm locking this thread and taking out the trash.