Give yourselves a round of applause 🖖

anyone that tries to say star trek has "gone woke" or some stupid shit like that clearly isn't a fan of it and just trying to rile up stuff. I mean come on... how can someone say that and have watched the shows LOL

Yeah, its not like Star Trek suddenly went woke, its been woke. First ever TV kiss between mixed races was between Kirk and Uhura. Scandalous.
- That's actually a common misconception. Not to downplay the significance of what Shatner and Nichols pulled off to get around the various censors (ruining alternate takes and such), but many TV shows did it before Star Trek.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_interracial_kiss_on_television
- And they're not even that woke. Afaik they still ocasionally eat animals in the 24th century. (Unless they're Vulcan.) Watch The Orville if you want some proper progressive shit 😆
- It's literally like 80% of the show's concept. The idea was to hide morality plays behind wacky alien makeup.
- Not to mention the first black woman officer and the first black/white kiss.
Right now it's the modern entitled version of woke. Not the philosophical exploratory woke.
Modern Trek tells you off for thinking differently while old Trek set an example to aspire to.
And that's only in the few limited moments NuTrek a actually bothers spending time on making an opinion, as most of it is cheaply written shlock to squeeze as much as possible out of underpaid VFX artists.
- Releasing Let That Be Your Last Battlefield at the height of the civil rights movement wasn’t some hypothetical philosophizing. That was pointed condemnation. Same with The Outcast’s attack on conversion therapy, or In The Hands of the Prophets' take on religious dogmatism.
  Star Trek has always been happy to condemn bad ideas. If you think it's just started telling people off now then you haven't been paying attention.
- What do you think woke means?
I mean compared to TOS it's gotten woke, but TOS was like extremely woke for the 60s

I have a theory:

Star Trek fans were some of the earlier cosplayers. Trekkies were wearing Starfleet uniforms and Vulcan ears to conventions decades before the word "cosplay" was a thing. My father has a book called the Starfleet Technical Manual published in the 70's that is basically an official guide for fans to build screen accurate costumes and props from, including sewing patterns for the various tunics and wrist-length dresses and a page of color swatches, plus dimensional drawings of tricorders, phasers and communicators.

And the public at large in the 1970s wasn't ready for that yet.

People were cosplaying Junge Werther in the 1800s, it's just a thing people do.
- Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the ancient Greeks were cosplaying their favorite characters from the Trojan war or something. But the word cosplay is only attested from like 1993 in English and 1983 or so in Japan
I have that book! It's super cool. It's themed as a document made by the military about information on the Federation that leaked into the past.

There's also diagrams of space stations and ships, and small things, like how to properly decorate sleeves and badges for rank and division.
- Same man created the brilliant Star Trek Blueprints, the first detailed deck plans for the Enterprise. He did all this after his daughter took him to a Trek convention and he saw how passionate the fans were and what a need there was for material like this. It's a great story.
  http://www.trekplace.com/franzjoseph.html
- I read my dad's copy cover to cover as a kid, it's a great bit of fluff for fans combined with a useful prop reference. It's also fun that it's basically all hand drawn, even the text pages look l Iike a draftsman hand lettered them.
- Oh man those technical drawings are MY SHIT. I got all the Star Wars ones. I'll definitely see if I can track this down
- I used to have the original black cover version. Long lost, sadly. I have it as an ebook though. The one Star Trek book from my youth I had to buy once when I saw it used was this one, which used to be canon until TNG threw almost all of it away. But Rick Sternbach illustrated it and the ideas are pretty fun.
  https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek_Spaceflight_Chronology
  I think my favorite part is when an Earth expedition to Alpha Centauri meets Zefram Cochrane (TOS says he is from Alpha Centauri and there's a lot of headcanon to explain it) and learns to communicate to him through mathematics. At the beginning, Cochrane draws a circle with a symbol next to it, the Earth mathematician realizes that it means pi and they move on from there.
  Looks like someone scanned in every page if you're interested: https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/spaceflight-chronology.php
  Edit:
  As much as I love First Contact, in terms of world building, I like that so much more.

Hands up those old enough to remember the shitfest that erupted over Janeway (and/or Sisko)

I threw up the horns. It was nuts as a middle school girl, when Voyager first started airing, and everyone was so angry about Janeway and when I'd ask why they would turn red and shake their head, or change the topic.
- The good old days, when sexist, racist, homophobes at least kept their mouths shut... Now they'd give you a speech about how she should be in the galley :(
It's true. It's not been a totally smooth ride. It's taken work to educate fellow fans, and making the intolerant unwelcome.
Like there was early "controversy" about Geordie getting to be on the bridge. Which seemed kind of logical, but if you scratched below the surface you'd see how selective that critique was. That it was just racism and ableism
I remember a comment saying that Tuvok was so anal his skin is brown on Usenet in 1995. Some things never change.
- Jesus

I kinda lost it when Janeway fired more photon torpedos than the ship had upon entering the Delta quadrant. Where did she get the extra torpedoes?! She's a witch!

They figured a way to fabricate their own. Like the shuttles.
- Head cannon is that 1/3 of voyager is taken up by a massive shuttle manufactory. It's never discussed but it must be there...Otherwise, none of this shit makes any sense.😬
- I was always sad they never explored that sort of thing in an episode, didn't have to be as big as the Delta Flyer but still!

The Discworld fandom is another one you can't be in if you're an asshole because you clearly didn't understand the source material.

GNU PTerry. And I'm with you there.

The entire Dune novel fanbase is also pretty decent. I like hanging out with him.

Yeah but like... have you read Chapterhouse? Shit goes off the rails
- Even more than that fairly, uhm.. graphic climbing scene in God-Emperor? Just started Heretics, so I'll make sure to get the popcorn ready by the time I start Chapterhouse. 😋

Also, sorry everyone, I was a Trekkie first and I will always come back to Star Trek, but the MST3K fan base is the nicest fan base. The only two bitter arguments I've ever seen the community devolve into was Joel vs. Mike (now very moot) and "I hate Crow's new lady voice" for the most recent season. Other than that, everyone is super nice to a fault. The MST3K forums is the friendliest forum I have ever been on.

Joel vs. Mike
Mike is a great writer but Joel by far has the better timing and delivery. Not to derail the thread or anything.
calmly places halo above his head
- My attitude is that everyone brought something to the table worth watching.
- It's just a show, you should really just relax.
No need to fight over Joel or Mike when we have JOIKE sweaters. Or now: JOIKAHEM.
MST3K 🔥

I'm out of the loop... What torpedo? What woman?

Maybe the recent controversy from Warhammer 40k where Games Workshop retconned women space marines into existence? I dunno, did Star Wars do something to trigger the sexists since then, that controversy is a few weeks old now.
- Female adeptes custodes not Space marines. Makes little difference in the large picture but it’s possible within the lore to have female custodians as they’re all humans picked at birth and genetically altered/enhanced individually to make the best soldier they could ever be. GW just didn’t mention females being in that order for 30 years apparently lol
  Space marines are all male though, have been explicitly stated as being all male repeatedly and even recently with lore backing of the some of the organ implants and genetic modification templates only work on males since they’re based off the primarchs who were all male as sons of the emperor of mankind.
  I’ll end with saying that GW has done great with inclusion in recent years, even explicitly telling Nazis to go find another hobby if they don’t like that GW is making warhammer and warhammer 40k for everyone, of all races, genders, and religions. They’ve always had racial representation and some manner of gender representation in the guard and eldar but now they’re expanding and I’m all for it. I have no issues with any of it so long as GW doesn’t just say ignore the last ~40 years of established lore and even recent lore issuances because we would like to sell more models.
I took it as a (mistaken) reference to the scene in The Last Jedi when Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) rams into a star destroyer in hyperspace, a maneuver which destroyed both ships and made people wonder why they didn’t just hyperspace into shit all the time instead of building warships and getting shot all the time.
It happened in the same point in the movie when she refuses multiple times to say that she has any plan whatsoever, leading to a lot of pointless fighting and was thought to have been some sort of commentary on “believing women” but very poorly executed.
Disney spent billions to destroy the Star Wars canon, but hopefully Trek can escape such a grisly fate.
- In fairness, that scene with the destroyers was fucking awesome. Fuck the canon, it looked cool as fuck.
I didn't give that a second thought, glad someone else thought they knew the reference
Wasn't it one of the recent star wars films?

SHUT UP WE ARE NOT THE NICEST FAN BASE I WILL FIGHT YOU

Say that again and I'll tuvix the shit out of you!!
(Then there will be two of you, but better, Im showing you mercy)
- You probably shouldn't do the 'two of the same guy' thing (known in the trade as a 'Reverse Tuvix') where Star Trek is concerned...
  Don't you dare tell me Andy Dick doesn't count.

Meanwhile us Battlestar Galactica fans are over in the corner wondering why no one talks to us

Because the first series didn't age well :( although I loved it at 10... And the second was (controversial opinion incoming) too much of a soap opera for me.
- The writers and showrunners blatantly not having a clue where the plot was going was a bigger problem for me than the soapiness.
- The second seemed like an asset rip to me. It wasn't bad per se, it just wasn't Battlestar Galactica.
Because you messed up your last season especially the ending
Imagine Space: 1999 fans...
The original old show? It's meh okay 70's sci-fi TV. Not into the kid and his robot dog or whatever.
The 2000s remake? It's basically what cured my television habit. I was never really into the "gritty realistic" heartburn drama shit anyway, so I gave up on the show itself pretty early, then spent the rest of my time as an SG-1 fan having Katee Sackhoff scream in anguish at me during every single commercial break for years on end. Then every TV show made from then on had to be a dark and brooding show about terrible people being terrible to each other and then I stopped watching TV.

Completely agree.

If I would ever be in desperate need of help it would instantly comfort me to see a trekkie or a metalhead. The average wholesomeness is ridiculously high.

Metalhead over a trekkie any way. Seven foot tall, face full of piercings, absolute kitten
- Exactly.
  (But also Im running away from a trekkie cosplaying as Neelix ... and assaulting the Tuvix one)
- You mean the same ones who call every music other than metal "crap" and "not even real music"?
  Nah, I will take a Trekkie every day of the week.
Add motorcyclist to your list.
- And d&d players.

So you're saying Star Trek needs its own version of Jar Jar?

But we already have Neelix.

This is throwing shade at SW fans. Thing is, SW is shit since the Prequeks. Disney SW only made it worse. However, Disney shills use muhsoggknee excuse everytime someone points out their shitty movies and shows. This is why they're seething at Jenny's 4 hour takedown of their Hotel.

Oh, have they responded to that? I was really hoping it upset them.

Doctor who is better

Star Trek is 40 lbs of pure columbian white sitting in a big pile on my desk.
Doctor Who is a dusty lump of crack I flushed out from behind the toilet that I'm hoping will last the weekend.

In the words of Dr. Westphalen (who was paraphrasing Admiral Farragut), "Damn the torpedoes, and full speed ahead!"