TIL about Earl Silverman, a domestic abuse survivor who founded a shelter for men. It was denied funding from the government and he was ridiculed. The shelter went bankrupt and he died by suicide
Earl Silverman - Wikipedia
MASH hosted about 20 fleeing men and children in the first four months of 2013 before being shut down.
Glass half full. He probably made a massive difference in the lives of those 20 in those few short months. Maybe even turned some lives around.
glass half full with a hole in it
I was abused by my ex-wife for years. The treatment I received from government agencies was more damaging than most of what I got from her.
Certain organisations that are used to inform governments, from elected officials to social workers are based on the assumption that only men are ever abusive, that all men are abusive and the women can do no wrong. It started with the Duluth model and was followed in Australia by a study done by White Ribbon that specifically excluded straight men from participating. I know this is the case as I attempted to participate and that is exactly what I was told at the time.
Our bureau of Statistics has clearly shown that at least ⅓ of victims are men.
This is what is meant when people talk about the patriarchy and toxic masculinity hurting everyone. It’s not “all men are bad!” But rather the idea that men aren’t allowed by society to have feelings other than anger, or are unable to be raped, or need to just “man up” when they are suffering-It’s all bullshit, and so harmful to men and boys. I’m so sorry for what you went through, and I hope you were able to find peace.
I think the toxic masculinity is another subject aside from domestic relationships involving man on man violence and how it’s given a pass (especially on tv) . Beavis butthead /jackass type stuff. At least that is more in context of what I’ve seen it meant to be towards.
Domestic abuse however should be considered regardless of gender. It would be better to drop the gender out of it entirely when discussing it. We should acknowledge anyone can be a victim or even an abuser. it’s actually very common that even both are abusers but that often doesn’t get addressed other than being ‘one cancels out the other’ or ‘you’re both bad for eachother’.
There is a problem here that your post is making obvious, but no one is seeing. Every form of discrimination against men is being described by feminists as "patriarchy." It seems when all you have is a hammer, everything in front of you becomes a nail. The giant blowback feminism is getting is because of this one-word-fits-all aspect of their ideology. In this case, the dangerously deluded idea that if you just get rid of Patriarchy, male disposability will just go away and so will discrimination against men.
It won't, because the common denominator is humans.
This is why you never hear feminists talk about the actual things that drive women to attack men without provocation. If they can't pin it on the Patriarchy they don't want to discuss it. Literally this excuses women from being held responsible for their actions... because when a woman does something like that, it's just her, but when a man does it, it's reflective of a bigger problem, aka "men as a class". Women don't have bigger influences that make them think they can get away with stuff unless you can blame it on the Patriarchy and not the simple fact that women can be just as evil as men and in fact can circle their wagons around an offender just like the Patriarchy can for miscreant men. Just look at how Sharon Osbourne and an entire crowd of women circled their wagons around Catherine Kieu. I can provide the video if you want. But that never matters to feminists - the idea that women have their own framework outside of "Patriarchy" by which they treat each other and men wrong is heresy to them. Patriarchy as the cause of all gender wrongs is as myopic as it is popular.
Yet it's hard to even discuss this because talking about it draws the equally fascist elements of the men's rights movement. And so myopia becomes the new 20/20.
I've heard many horror stories like this....
Had a friend who called the police on his abusive girlfriend when she pulled a knife on him, they arrested HIM for abusing HER despite him having witnesses...
I've also knew a guy who had to leave home because of his abusive wife, and when he asked about Abuse Shelters for men, the office kept recommending him to Anger Management programs meant to rehabilitate abusers
There was rape training at one of the unis I went to, including sexual violence against men and women stats. The rape stats were pretty bad as they are, but the one that really stuck out to me was that 1 in 10 men got raped. Really fucking high, much higher than expected. And you never hear much about it until a friend of a friend got held down by several people and raped. Refused to come forward to the police or even get tested for STDs because he was afraid of what society would think.
I had the same issues with my first wife. At one point when we were separated she attacked me in public and tried to steal my keys so she could take my car, while I was holding my kid. I had scratches all down the arm that wasn't holding my child, and I ended up retreating into a store, where she continued to attack me. When the cops showed up I was immediately cuffed, and she was treated as a victim, despite onlookers and even her telling them that she had attacked me. I would have definitely gotten booked except that a female officer was called to talk to her, realized what was going on, and made the male cops uncuff me and arrest her instead.
At the hearing for a restraining order the judge literally laughed, and gave her partial custody of the kid with no restraining order for either of us, and the local DA let her off with anger management courses and nothing on her permanent record.
I have a feeling that only scratches the surface of what is abuse. It’s a whole family dynamic. And I would prefer it if gender wasn’t part of the discussion It really slants it like you say.
I’ve seen people blame the victim of abuse simply because they aren’t the abuser and ‘should know to leave’ when it is actually a very dangerous situation they are in.
And in some of the programs on the subject of addiction it’s actually more common that you’ll get both parents are actually abusive however our way of being programmed (like in the programs you’re saying) we might side more with who shares our gender. Or worse: start thinking the person who is being abused deserves it because they are somehow annoying others into abusing them. Or even wants to stay for the abuse and people lose respect for the victim for not leaving.
In Australia (more so in New Zealand) they are at least a decade behind on what is going on in America when it comes to addressing abuse dynamics. They still struggle a lot to get cops to take abuse seriously and very behind on the training. Lots of these programs even believe that abusers think victims have evolved to take a hit. I dunno, some sort of messed up biology involving whomever or whatever the gender is they believe is the more common and whatever the gender of victim is most common.
sure, ok in worst case scenario let’s say there might be some fucked up narratives like that out there amongst why an abuser abuses, I’d like to see that (or any idealogical bases for abuse) challenged towards the individual abuser rather than confirmed to the victim.
Men’s shelters are needed. Men are also survivors of domestic abuse.
I am a victim of abuse. We had a kid too. The court handed my daughter to my abuser when she made false claims and I was arrested. All charges were dropped but the custody battle was delayed and made wildly more complex than it needed to be by the mother. Two months ago I was finally awarded sole custody. It has been so hard. To say male abuse victims have an uphill battle is an understatement.
Stay strong, brother. One day when your child has grown up they'll understand and be grateful that you fought so hard.
This is a classic case of the Patriarchy / Toxic Masculinity hurting men too.
For the government officials to fund a Men's shelter would mean admitting that men can have moments of weakness, which the men in power do not like.
Misandry is sadly extremely widespread and often not even recognized as a problem: Erin Pizzey who invented modern women’s shelters quickly found out that women were just as capable of being violent to their partners and logically tried to start men’s shelters as well.
What she had not expected was that instead with the support that she previously got with women’s shelters, the same did not happen with men’s shelters; instead she received insane amounts of hate, victim-blaming and death-threats from radical feminists. She had to repeatedly flee her countries because of material safety-concerns as a result of that.
In some way the peak I encountered of this kind of hate was some Fedi-site that had a rule banning misandry (good!), because it also harms trans people. Now the second part is very much true and as a trans girl I agree that it does and that that is bad, but that should not be the primary argument for why it is bad. That’s like saying anti-judaism is bad, because some Jews are white or saying misogyny is bad, because it also affects trans men or saying anti-black racism is bad, because it might affect white people with a strong tan: The statement is true and the secondary victim group fully preserves protection, but by making that statement you betray an incredibly bigoted mindset that doesn’t even respect the primary target-group enough to care about them at all.
There is a lot feminism that really just amounts to men-hating and that is why I do not use that label for myself. I believe in equivalent treatment and rights and so should everyone;
I think there are a lot of people who practice "White Feminism" which is mainly white women wanting to keep the existing power structures, but just replace the men with women and do nothing to actually address the cause of systemic inequality which hurt many marginalized women. Like all movements, the actual ideology and the movement in praxis are quite different and people are more motivated by a perceived vengeance and indignation than actually trying to get people onboard and change perspectives. This is why you get TERFs and the like.
I've always thought there were two types of feminists. The original feminists who actually want equality for all sexes, who are strong willed but also know and understand the difference between a genuine desire to help and the fucked up idea that "you are woman, therefore you're incapable"
And the radical extreme feminists who want to go even further than equality and completely flip the script from patriarchy to matriarchy, purely out of bad experiences and shitty role models resulting in an "all men bad" belief alongside the idea that "we suffered, so you must now also experience our suffering too" and thinking that equality isn't enough to right the wrongs. When in reality all they are actually doing is continuing the cycle.
My god, what an awful story.
He wasn't weak like some bigots may claim. It's just not that easy to fight the whole world alone. And he tried just that. A very tragic story that is really good to know to start untangling the problem.
If you want a good band that talks about that and are pretty aproacheable, IDLES is a good recent punk act with a lot of bangers. Search for them on youtube, their videos hit hard and their live on KEXP is fire.
This is why, you'll never see your father cry
This is why, you'll never see your father cry
This is why, you'll never see your father
+I mean that live: https://youtu.be/5Sbbiv5iSiQ
IDLES - Samaritans
You are goddamn right.
New album out soon! I can't wait! Fucking class act.
I felt my heart break after reading that...how can people be so cruel?
Men suffer too, and this kind of bullshit makes it harder for y'all to get help...
Isn't like 33% of domestic abuse female > male? It's more than you'd think I know that
also men with men relationship violence adding to the numbers. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29994648
Lesbian partner violence stats are also shocking. It's as if everyone can be an abuser.
Hmm, now I have concerns after watching this thread unfold. OP created their account 2 days ago and this thread is the only thing they've posted. They haven't even made any comments here or elsewhere.
And, different from the beginning, this thread is quickly becoming just the usual whinging from the bigoted MRA types that hate all women.
This thread feels like it was a setup.
It's especially sticky because "Men's Rights" is a bait-and-switch, ripping off "Men's Liberation."
Men's Liberation is associated with feminist movements, because patriarchy hurts everyone. That's not to equivocate between the extents to which men and women suffer under it (or any group under systemic bigotry), but liberation and egalitarianism would help us all.
So Men's Rights does the thing where it appeals to people with genuine grievances, but offers them a bullshit solution that benefits grifters and people in power. It's not this systemic problem, it's this group of people, and if only we could deal with them, everything would magically fix itself. In this case, "It's not patriarchy, it's not capitalism, it's feminists, and women in general. If only we could get them back in their place, your life would be back on track. So vote for me/sign up for my course..."
So, bringing up the ways in which men also suffer under sexism can kick up some dirt to muddy the waters, intentionally or not. Some will be bad faith actors who just want to shit on feminism. Others will be taking the feminist side on this. And those in the middle, who see things turn toxic, can go any way—but if they stay neutral, or especially move right, then the reactionaries gain some ground.
So I don't know what's in OP's heart. But, at least from way too many fights online, I've found that the best course of action is to assume good faith, and give reactionaries enough rope to hang themselves. They don't have the better ideas, and they don't have the better plans, but they're good at shit-flinging. If you just make a good case, they tend to unmask pretty quickly and fall apart. There's no point trying to convince a die-hard bigot, but you can play to the audience by just making the better case and helping bigots embarrass themselves.
In my opinion, at least, for whatever that's worth. Sorry for the rambling!
This is why I like Leftwing Male Advocates instead.
Men’s Liberation is associated with feminist movements,
In my experience, men's lib is like men's rights if the first rule of men's rights was to never question any feminist position, the second rule was to never question any woman's position unless it contradicts the first rule, and the third rule is any men's issue needs to be framed in such a way that it's primarily about benefiting women. Just follow those three rules and you too can discuss men's issues without it being evil altright misogyny!
I actually found it amusing to see MensLib types talking positively about Contrapoints "Men" video, for example. I actually had to go back and rewatch some old stuff to make sure she wasn't directly plagiarizing Alison Tieman since some of her points were so close to things Tieman wrote like a decade before that. Alison Tieman of course being best known for Honey Badger Radio.
I suspect I'm a bit older than most in these conversations, or at least have engaged with it longer. I'll say this, feminism has improved with how they deal with men's issues over the last 25 or so years. Though to be fair, 25 years ago simply claiming it's impossible for a man to be the victim of abuse was the default position, so that's a low bar.
2008 you had angry protests in Canada because a group called CAFE had a speaker giving a talk about suicide in men - if you've ever seen the "Big Red" feminist meme, it came from this protest, she was a protester and was basically shouting a Jezebel article at people and screaming at anyone who dared interrupt her calling them things like "fuckface."
We could also look at Mary Koss, who is kind of a major figure in research around sexual assault in the US. She performed the first real study on the topic, and her definitions and instruments and ones descended from them are still used. As recently as 8 years ago she responded to a question about a man being raped by a woman by asking how that could even happen. When given an example in which a man was drugged and ridden by a woman she outright stated that she wouldn't call that rape but "unwanted contact". https://soundcloud.com/889-wers/male-rape
Also, women's studies and feminist theories aren't about truth but about providing a scholarly veneer backing activism. To quote Kelly Oliver, W. Alton Jones Professor of Philosophy, Vanderbilt University who specializes in feminism, political philosophy and ethics: "feminist theory cannot claim to describe what exists, or, 'natural facts.' Rather, feminist theories should be political tools, strategies for overcoming oppression in specific concrete situations. The goal, then, of feminist theory, should be to develop strategic theories—not true theories, not false theories, but strategic theories."
because patriarchy hurts everyone.
Patriarchy is the wrong way to view it all. Patriarchy theory has it's origins in Marxist class conflict which is a reasonable way to view economic class but breaks down the farther you wander from economic class (hell, the only reason it even kinda works for race in the US is because of what the three largest racial groups are and their economic relationship to each other both historically and currently).
It's just a bad model for how gender works. A great example of this is that you can point to all kinds of stats as evidence that the criminal justice system is racist and oppresses black people, but break down those same measurements by sex instead of race and that same argument would suggest that the criminal justice system is sexist and oppresses men, which the same people who will use those measures re:race as evidence of oppression will also tell you is definitely wrong because it's backwards from their presumed hierarchy.
That’s not to equivocate between the extents to which men and women suffer under it (or any group under systemic bigotry), but liberation and egalitarianism would help us all.
My biggest gripe with feminism is that when equal treatment and what benefits women are not the same thing, feminism breaks in favor of what benefits women. See for example pushes for family court to adopt a rebuttable presumption of shared custody, most of the opposition against which would frame itself as feminist. Or the DeVos Title IX policy changes and the anger and backlash at them, where most of the changes were either codifying things schools had been successfully sued over or establishing some frankly fucking obvious notions of fair due process, like that the person representing the accuser's side and the person deciding the result should not be the same person (the DeVos setup requires at least three people aside from the accused and accuser be involved in a hearing, serving roles analogous to prosecutor, defense attorney and judge) or that the accused shouldn't be punished until after a determination is made (instead it calls for non-punitive measures where needed, like adjusting schedules to avoid contact between parties or other things that would minimize issues while not damaging anyone's educational progress).
this thread is quickly becoming just the usual whinging from the bigoted MRA types that hate all women.
Where, exactly? Is pointing out men have issues that get ignored (by women and men alike) equal to hating women? Because in 200+ comments i’ve seen maybe 3 or 4 actually hating on women.
Am i missing something or are you just desperate to defend the claim that women can nothing wrong and men are always the baddies
I was thinking the same. Thank you for saying this.
Well, obviously. Men's issues will continue to be ignored as long as they are used as an emotional cudgel to deny women's validation for theirs, and that's a bitter pull the MRA douchebags need to swallow and fast. That is, if they actually care about men.
Lay off the conspiracies. I am not a part of MRA or Men’s lib nor do I care to be. I thought this story and the man behind it deserved recognition. I used a throwaway because I (correctly) assumed people would come after me for making this post. It’s ridiculous that you can’t even acknowledge the lack of men’s shelters without people screaming ulterior motives.
It's really sad the way he was treated and extra aggravating that the bigoted side of the men's rights movement has tried to take advantage of his death for themselves rather than to actually progress anything involving men's rights issues.
On that note, I'm going to go ahead and remove the quote sentence from the bigoted and extremely misogynistic A Voice For Men publication in the Legacy section. It's not even referenced anyways.
I’d just like to make the note that the men’s liberation movement is the exact opposite of the men’s rights movement, despite the two sounding similar.
The men’s lib movement was founded specifically as being complementary to women’s lib and uses many of the same approaches and intellectual analyses. It explicitly rejects the MRA/red pill narratives while still trying to figure out masculine toxicity and honor cultures, as well as trying to elevate the idea that too few men seek or are able to receive the care they deserve. It’s very much against the patriarchy.
Unfortunately, like many communities on lemmy, it’s less active here than it was on Reddit, but it’s worth using the term as a search of nothing else.
Jesus Christ, 2013 is too late for that.
My mother was the abuser in my home. She abused me and my father. That fact doesn't prevent me from knowing that men are statistically more likely to be the aggressor. I don't know what I'm trying to say with this comment. Life is scary and hard enough. May we all only share and receive kindness.
Xx love you.
I think I interpret what you are saying as that you're aware women likely need more help, but so do men, and we shouldn't assume the smaller one doesn't exist or ignore them because that group creates more issues than they have victims.
Thank you for that balanced take on this issue.
So sorry to hear that.
I read:
1 - men absolutely get abused
2 - we don’t need to entirely eliminate any of the existing narrative that women have it rough [but let’s add abuse of men to the picture]
No notes besides sending some love back, brother.
I assumed you said that (about how men are far more likely to be abusers) to try to mitigate any reactions that take your very reasonable comment out of context. Any time someone points out that abuse or injustice can happen from the non-typical side of a binary situation, someone inevitably jumps in with a "well achually..." response. Sometimes it's said with the best of intentions. Sometimes it's just trolling our pushing a personal bias.
I disagree with others who say you are perpetuating something negative by saying that. That's clearly not what you are doing. You are just trying to provide a preemptive response to an inevitable counterpoint. Your overall point was well-made and reinforces the tragic but insightful story behind this post.
I hope you and your dad have found peace and happiness away from your abusive mom.
It's because you can't say or do anything in regards to this issue without attracting people that have an agenda that has nothing to do with helping men but is simply anti-feminist.
I've read plenty of times online how people don't even look for help because they were convinced online that help for men does not exist. But it does and it should be spread instead of people trying to persuade people it doesn't exist just because they want to spread their ideology.
This is exactly how I interpreted it
I don’t know what I’m trying to say with this comment
That despite being actual victim of abuse, and further witnessing your father be a victim of abuse, You still try to push the narrative that women are the only real victims and the only ones deserving of support.
and I dont say this to be mean, or snarky, or cruel to you. You've just got to realize how internalized you've got this shit.
That is very kind of you, cokeslutgarbage. Not my business but anyway: this may be the moment when a username deserves to be changed.
Yeah it could probably use a cunt at the end for maximum efficacy
😂 I didn't notice until you mentioned it.
Hoping there's a r/rimjob_steve equivalent here on Lemmy! 🤞
you were saying?
no.
Well now I'm sad and angry.
Kudos to this man.
This shows me once again that man get no sympathy.
Shouldn't the amount of upvotes here and the numbers of articles about Earl show you that they do? It's one of the most upvoted threads on the Fediverse and the most upvoted in it's community.
It’s one of the most upvoted threads on the Fediverse
Not really…? It’s far from even being top 300.
Plus, I’m guessing it was an exaggeration. Obviously men get sympathy from a lot of people, but what happened to him shows it’s nowhere nearly enough (at least at the time, in that area).
This world sucks
That’s awful. He deserves to be remembered. Thanks for posting. Are there shelters in place now in Canada?
Yeah, there is for example this in Hamilton. Men's shelter Hamilton There are a few in Toronto and others in bigger cities.
People can find the closest to them for example on this site: Canadian centre for men and families
This is really depressing. Men need those type of resources as well.
There are shelters for men. You can find them for example here (this is for Canada): Men and Families Canada
1-866-887-0015 for male sexual abuse survivors toll-free 24/7
Menand Canada for further resources
Heads-up Guys Canada especially for mental health issues
This is a list based in Ontario with additional helplines and resources in Canada also for women, indigenous people, LGBTQ+ and other minorities.
Today I wish I didn't learn....
Agreed.
No one does.
They tell you to open up and talk about your emotions, to be vulnerable and they leave you cause you're weak, and spread rumors about your sexuality (because straight men arent supposed to have feelings) when you do.
You ask for help, and you get ridiculed and called weak and told endless stories about how hard real victims/women have it.
Anything you do except suffer in silence is unacceptable.
And just by the gods make sure you don't make your silent suffering to noticeable to impact others, because god damn then the ridicule and the "well ackshually"-ing about other peoples suffering will really start.
You're technically right. But the fundamental flaw in your logic is not obeying the #1 rule in everyone's life (at least it should be) :
Keep toxic people out of your life, no matter their sex. Women can be the same pieces of shit that men can be. The statistical quantification or prevalence by trend doesn't matter. Keep. Them. Out. Period. Family, friend, coworkers, significant others? Whatever. OUT!
And if you end up being totally lonely by this? Well. Still better being totally lonely than being under the foot of an arsehole just not to be lonely.
There are awesome people out there. You just got to weed out a legion of sand before finding a pearl. Or two.
Wisdoms of an old, misanthropic, eremitic fart.
I think you need to re-evaluate the people you surround yourself with, friend.
There are shelters for men. You can find them for example here (this is for Canada): Men and Families Canada
1-866-887-0015 for male sexual abuse survivors toll-free 24/7
Menand Canada for further resources
Heads-up Guys Canada especially for mental health issues
This is a list based in Ontario with additional helplines and resources in Canada also for women, indigenous people, LGBTQ+ and other minorities.
There are shelters for men. You can find them for example here (this is for Canada): Men and Families Canada
There's a certain irony here, as Men and Families Canada was started by the Canadian Association For Equality (CAFE). CAFE who got their first real taste of gendered bullshit when they tried to do a series of talks on men's issues at the University of Toronto c. 2012, starting with one about suicide in men. Angry feminist protests ensued.
Ever seen the "Big Red" antifeminist meme? She's a real person and she became a meme because of these protests, in which at one point she was basically shouting a Jezebel article at the crowd and calling anyone who tried to engage things like "fuckface". She became the meme shorthand for "angry feminist" for a good while afterward as a consequence.
EDIT: Gave the wrong year, I apologize. Corrected.
That's kind of a hyperbole, there are resources and advocates for men in Canada.
Not even men?
Yep, the shitty thing is that it's generally other men that are the problem when it comes to "less manly" things like getting abused by a woman. Since every man is "supposed" to be tough you're generally thought of as weak if you admit to something like this. I say this as another guy.
Gay men do
Watch an episode of 90 Day Fiance if you have a hard time imagining the woman being the abuser.
Absolutely, since women generally are the weaker of the two they don't use violence/physical force a lot of the time, their weapon of choice is emotional abuse.
Of the 13 women I've dated, 8 were physically violent with me. I've been slapped, punched, kicked, scratched, bitten, spat on, hit with blunt objects, and in one case burned by women I was with. And I suspect that number is as low as it is because the violence came mostly from women I was going long-term with; flings and one night stands were less likely to hit.
I never struck any of them. Not once.
Violence and physical abuse is always also emotional abuse.
That is not necessarily true. Yes, women are generally weaker than men, but individual variation means a woman can be stronger than a man.
Aside from that, the difference in strength doesn't matter that much- no matter how much my mom hit me, I never really had the desire to hit her back. Even when I was a teenager and could have wrecked her, I didn't want to. Then on top of that, there's the very real problem of authorities getting involved, they're going to assume the male is the aggressor, really limits your available options...
It was the same for my dad. I still remember their last fight before the divorce. They were cleaning up after dinner, and my dad dropped the ice cube tray, scattering ice across the floor. This set my mom off and she started screaming at him about how worthless he was, and she tried to kick him in the gut. He caught her foot, purely out of self defense, but that threw her off balance and she fell on the cat dishes, which led to some pretty gnarly bruising... I didn't see the whole fight, I was upstairs, but I heard it going on and came down just in time to see my mom sitting on the floor (sobbing, like she hadn't started the whole thing) and my dad standing there with a look of "I can't take this anymore"
Anywho, the point of all that was, it's not about physical strength - an abuser has a meanness that their victim(s) lack, and that matters far more.
Be a shame if the people responsible were hanged.
killing humans is never the answer. it devolves you into something worse than youre trying to combat because you, presumably have a choice.
Never?
Consciously I know that. But having lived under cruelty for many years I cant compute it emotionally in this case. The amount of cruelty needed to drive someone to suicide (not saying its always like this) is just not bearable for me.
killing humans is never the answer
What if you are in a war or being attacked or something
That takes away the choice from convicted people who choose to rehabilitate
I fail to see a path to rehabilitation for people who drive others to suicide. For me its a lot worse than murder. The amount of cruelty needed to really drive someone to do it is incomprehensible to me.
Another suicide by gamedev.
But gamergate was only racist altright hate, I'm sure of it /s
Gamergate was a false conspiracy that radicalized young white men. It was a horrible attempt at a "return to normalcy". Gamergate was one of the first dominos to fall in this current realm of disinformation.
It's well known now that gamergate and large parts of the "MRA" movement were organized specifically to radicalize young white men, as a test run that would eventually become the alt-right pipeline to radicalize even more people. Steve Bannon and his band of merry trolls were heavily involved.
So, yes, it really was sexist, racist, full of hate, and directly led to the alt-right movement online.
Swing and a miss, bud
It’s crazy when you discover that feminism was created by a man and woman in the UK in the 1970s and got co-opted by a bunch of psychopaths into the fucking terrible movement it is today.
They found that domestic violence is roughly 50-50. Meaning it’s caused sometimes by men and sometimes by women at fairly even pace.
The shitbag movement it is today only seeks to serve women and has vehemently denied men access to support.
Fuck the shitbags running the movement.
Imagine thinking that feminimism didn't existed before 1970.
LMFAO you are so propagandized
and got co-opted by a bunch of psychopaths into the fucking terrible movement it is today.
Interesting. So In this theory of yours about how movements work, who exactly owns and dictates the movements? The ‘gov’ment’? The neighbour you hate? A woman calling the cops on someone? celebrities? People with opinions and jobs? A person with a magaphone/picket sign? Someone posting online?
What a weird question. No one specifically owns and dictates the feminist movement, and op didn't imply that there was. The answer you're demanding is at the core of cultural movements evolve, which is an incredibly complicated topic and I think it's kind of shitty to ask this pose this question like some obvious truth they're missing or something.
Modern feminist culture is incredibly poisonous, because its values were gradually eroded from bad actors. The people who dictate movements are simply the more passionate and convincing people that choose to try to. If a movement happens to have pretty vague ideas about its goals, it's actually very easy to undermine its greater purpose to more nefarious specific goals. Or rather, it's hard to keep from happening, because often the more selfish and destructive people are the ones who seem most passionate.
There is debate about how this is measured and the scientific methodology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#Gender_differences
Findings regarding bidirectional violence are particularly controversial because, if accepted, they can serve to undermine one of the most commonly cited reasons for female perpetrated IPV; self-defense against a controlling male partner.
They also stated if one examines who is physically harmed and how seriously, expresses more fear, and experiences subsequent psychological problems, domestic violence is significantly gendered toward women as victims.
As both Fiebert and Archer point out, although the numerical tally of physical acts in these studies has found similar rates of intimate partner violence amongst men and women, and high rates of bidirectionality, there is general agreement amongst researchers that male violence is a more serious phenomenon, primarily, but not exclusively, because male violence tends to inflict more psychological and physical damage than female violence.[3][79] Male violence produces injury at roughly six times the rate of female violence.[4] Women are also more likely to be killed by their male partners than the reverse (according to the US Department of Justice, 84% of spousal murder victims are female),[78] and women in general are more likely to be killed by their spouses than all other types of assailants combined.[80] In relation to this, Murray A. Straus has written "although women may assault their partners at approximately the same rate as men, because of the greater physical, financial, and emotional injury suffered by women, they are the predominant victims. Consequently, the first priority in services for victims and in prevention and control must continue to be directed toward assaults by husbands."
Basically men right's movement are using bad science. And if you are spreading the notion that feminism is just a bunch of sociopaths, then you are spreading misogyny / fascist propaganda.
Basically men right’s movement are using bad science.
Yes, bad science that considers mutual violence to be mutual violence, and not exclusively women defending themselves from violent men. Frankly, this is just another example of hyper/hypo-agency (basically men are treated as having more responsibility for their actions than they actually might and women are treated as having less - it's the same tendency that plays into women getting lower bail when arrested, lower sentencing for the same crimes, that sort of thing, in this case that a woman engaging in IPV isn't responsible for her violence, but rather responsibility for that violence belongs to the nearest man).
A fun followup for the reader: If women's IPV is primarily defending themselves from violent men, what would that lead you to predict about rates of abuse in gay male and/or lesbian relationships, and does that prediction match reality?
Differences in physical harm basically come down to size/weight and if anyone is using a weapon. This basically means a petite woman should have open season to beat on her SO as much as she wants, but if he raises a hand in his own defense that makes him the abuser - he should just take it indefinitely. Or leave, because leaving an abusive partner is the easiest thing in the world if you aren't a woman (see above about agency).
Fear expression is one of those things bound up in cultural nonsense - it's unmanly to be scared of a girl, so most will process around that or just bottle it and refuse to express it. Related is why NISVS has a bad habit of getting results that suggest that women force men into non-consensual intercourse about as often as men do that to women in the previous year but then wildly different lifetime numbers - give it a few years where you've internalized the message that that's not a thing that can happen to you because you're a man and eventually you believe it.
Hell, I was sexually assaulted a couple of decades ago. Was playing driver for the group, had been up 22 hours because I'd had an early morning and we were doing a late night and when we made a stop for two of the people in the car that was going to take a bit, I leaned the seat back and napped with one other person in the vehicle (a woman). Woke up to her midway through performing a sex act on me, noticing the others were on the way back and her saying "I guess we're more than just friends now." Took me a decade to recognize that as sexual assault rather than just filing it away and trying to ignore it because that's not something that happens to men.
Fucking disgusting, poor guy was a literal hero and was spit on for it
This is just life in the slave racket. Abuse victims are denigrated, subjugated, and treated as the real threat to their community and not the abuser. They are treated like that because the society NEEDS most of its people to be abused and to tolerate it so they can be exploited throughout their lives without challenging their exploiters, or even worse, tearing down the system that benefits the oppressors.
Abuse victims who actively rebel or who try to help other victims jeopardize the system's access to slaves, you see. So they have their spirits driven completely into the ground to stop others rising up against them.
Why do you think things like rape or domestic abuse are seldom punished? Or even murder to an extent? Especially since the government has had access to mass surveillance for over a decade and thus has the power to end such crimes completely?
The powers that be WANT this and NEED it for their system to survive.
That is the slave racket.
This is absolutely true. It may ring strange to the ears of some people because we've had Me Too since some years ago, but what did usually happen to a woman abused by someone in a position of power 20 years ago? How often would they have gotten justice? The same happens today if you're victimized by a religious institution in a very religious community, by your boss in a workplace where everyone is scared of unionizing, or in a household in a community where most people would lean towards disbelieving you or ignoring the issue.
I'm going to go ahead and say that most people, when faced with very clear warning signs of someone else being abused, choose to do nothing about it because they're cowards. We absolutely need better systems to deal with these situations, but given that they do not exist yet, individual acts of bravery save people from getting their lives broken. Please think about this next time you think someone close to you may be suffering.
Damn that devolved into conspiracy bullshit real quick. Shame.
Slave racket? That's a severe overexaggeration. Can we please not use such loaded and extremist words for the issue of male DV victims?