Double standards or something, I don't know...

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is much more nuanced. Both countries' current heads of state are kinda like "all this land is my country's, the other country should not exist." It's unclear who is right.

The Russo-Ukranian conflict is clear. One leader is claiming the land of the other, the other just want it back. Ukraine's government is not claiming half of Russia.

Edit: removed implied support for Hamas. Both militaries should burn. Hope for a quick end to the conflict for the sake of the civilians affected.
- At the end of the day who is Isreal and who Palestine. If no one who was alive when Palestine was around can anyone rightfully claim it the land belongs to "Palestine". It's like the ship Theseus or something. Maybe I'm just dumb as fuck.
  Just make the fuck up and work together instead of being greedy bigots.
"Unclear who is right"
No it's pretty clear, out with the colonizer government. How is this a question?
I get that there is lot more nuances than russo-ukrainian, but imo there is a lot more similarities than you seem to imply : both Russia and Israel claimed that the land belonged to them before, that they should get it back, and use violence to kill local people who tried to resist or move them. The only difference is that Israel did it with the help of western countries and partially according to their laws, so they get like an aura of legitimity, but the acts remains quite close.
I do not like when people basically do not accept violent behavior but accepts them when they are allowed by some law or authority.
(Also yes Hamas is doing bad things and should be held accountable in some way, just like Ukraine to my eyes. But still, for me it remains obvious who kills more, who steals more, who oppresses more)
- As a Ukrainian, let's sort out what we're accountable for once we're not getting genocided. We also have a lot of questions to our own government, but I would still prefer it to the Russian
That really is the problem. Both sides suck in this war.
On the one side we have a colonial apartheid regime that tries to steal every inch of land while imprisoning the native population in ghettos and restricting their economic and human development and trampling their human rights.
On the other side we have a desparate population seething with righteous rage at their oppression that has rejected every attempt at compromise and is only willing to stop once they have fully driven off every last invader off their land, but realistically they don't have the power or international support to achieve that, and they also never owned every inch of the land, either. So. Their ambition is neither realistic nor righteous.
While most Israelis are European colonists who could migrate to either Europe or America, not all of them are and it would not be fair to those whose ancestors lived in the region for hundreds of years to become refugees.
So anyway. I think the EU, UK, USA and Arab league need to come up with a reasonable plan - in consultation with the Israelis and Palestinians - and just force Israel and the Palestinians to accept the most reasonable plan. Both groups are fully dependent on their benefactors, while their domestic politics prevent them from solving it without external pressure.
"Lets have some nuance" people on their way to defend Nazi war criminals
all this land is my country's, the other country should not exist.
One of those countries is an ethno-religious state that is exclusive of the other. Can you guess which one?
If you are an ethno-religious exclusivist who says "your country shouldn't exist only mine!" and I am a country that multi-religious, and say "actually my country should be the prevailing one, not your exclusivist one", you gotta realize those two are massively different, unlike you portray.
The Russo-Ukranian conflict is clear. One leader is claiming the land of the other
Russia's original pretext for the war is not about territorial gains. It was supposedly regarding Ukraine's attack on Donetsk, Luhansk, and ethnic Russian populations in general (such as the Odessa massacre), what they also called "de-nazification" of the Ukrainian government, and Ukraine's bid to join NATO. This is easily verifiable, but I can provide you a sources on this if you doubt me.
I am not claiming what Russia is saying is true, but it is not what you make it seem to make your argument.
- Russias pretext for the war is complete horseshit. They have been supporting the rebels in these breakaway republics that magically appeared just after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014. Their support went beyond the usual proxy war/hybrid warfare bs, as hundreds of russian armed service men were confirmed KIA in Donezk and Luhansk.
  Also there's not a shred of evidence for the secret nazi government of Ukraine (led by a Jewish president) and Ukraines bid to join nato was 1. Years of not decades from its realization and 2. None of Russias business.
- Russia’s original pretext for the war is not about territorial gains. It was supposedly regarding Ukraine’s attack on Donetsk, Luhansk, and ethnic Russian populations in general (such as the Odessa massacre), what they also called “de-nazification” of the Ukrainian government, and Ukraine’s bid to join NATO. This is easily verifiable, but I can provide you a sources on this if you doubt me.
  Is that the line this week? They've been moving the goalposts so rapidly they must be on wheels (and better maintained wheels than the Russian army)
  The Russian propagandista changed their lines so many times it's blindingly obvious that there's no greater good and it was supposed to be a land-grab just like when they invaded and annexed Crimea
I feel like the people should have some say in who they want governing them.
True
Its unlcear who is right? Tell me, who lived there first before the US swung its dick around and displaced all of them?
No, its not.

Idk if this is a hot take, but imo the war in Ukraine is pretty clear city while the Palestinian and Israeli conflict his an infinite list of wrinkles and nuances.

It's far less controversial to say the former is Russia's fault than it is to say the latter is either Palestine's or Israel's fault.

Yeah mostly because isreal/ Palestine conflict is much older then russia/Ukraine so a lot of things happened. But at it's very core they both started because of the same claim : russia claimed used to own Ukraine so they want it back. The jews used to own Palestine so they want it back. So if you support Ukraine and isreal you're just a hypocrite
- I haven't seen anyone here "support Israel". Almost everyone agrees that the Israeli State is not free of guilt, far from it.
  What people really disagree over is whether that alone makes Palestine right (nuanced) and whether it justifies Hamas' actions (unhinged but unfortunately semi-common take on here).
- I mean, if you go further back than 1947/1948, didn't the Palestinians used to own Israel? Or do we want to go even further back, to about 1200 BCE?
Palestinian conflict is very simple: an army vs civilians. Only gonna end when all the latter are dead.
Should we ever try to sanction that army? Never! Should we try sanctioning US for killing million iraqis who had not a WMD? No! Should we sanction Nato for bombing the wealthiest african estate libya to it's ruin? Ah wait, WE are Nato. Can't shoot own ankle.
- Seems like both armies versus civilians.
  There's not many other conflicts where I can remark "two war crimes don't make a right" damn near every time.
No its not that complicated. Israel are straight up shit stains generally speaking. Have been since they immigrated to Jerusalem and then ran a coup with western support. Imagine if Russians showed up in your backyard one day took over your house and then started killing your neighbors. Meanwhile china sitting there going 'looks good to me guys!'
Swap out relative names with jews and usa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azs7As3MYFU
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  https://www.piped.video/watch?v=Azs7As3MYFU
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

You can't compare these 2 conflicts at all.

Why? Because the west supports the occupied in one and the occupier in the other? Don't forget the west expected Ukraine to be an occupied state with a gorilla insurgency within a few weeks at the start of the conflict.
Edit: because I am getting the expected hate. The Palestinians didn't start out as Hamas. The extremism of Hamas was born out of the lack of action from former moderates. People will always become more extreme when they are met with a lack of action. That goes for the left and the right.
So ask yourself if someone came to your house and told you to leave how angry would you be? If you don't understand this look up the actions of the Israeli settlements.
- Because Ukraine is not committing brutal crimes, not lobbing rockets randomly, hoping to kill anyone, civilian or not. Not hoping to eradicate their enemy (that is the stated goal of Hamas). Ukraine government is not in power because of violence, but because they were voted in. Hamas is in power only because they have weapons and other palestinians don't (given to them by other extremist Muslims, who want to see Jews die).
  So let me say it again, this conflict is not fucking comparable.
- gorilla insurgency

I've seen so many stupid takes today, and this is one of them. The conflicts aren't similar!

They're not identical, but they have similarities. What Russia is trying to do to Ukraine is not dissimilar to what Israel did to Palestine half a century ago.
In what ways are they different that it justifies supporting Ukraine but not Palestine?
No one is saying they're identical. But there are similarities.

Launching rockets at civilians isn't glorious whether you're Russian or Palestinian.

Or Israeli
- Sure.
lemm ee and dbzer0 users on their way to passively support whatever evil regime is in power
- lemmy.ml
  lol
- You'd have a good point except for the fact that Hamas governs the Gaza Strip. So, it's like blaming the government of Ukraine for the actions of the Ukrainian government.
  Also, don't think I missed you making up anti-Russian pogroms in Ukraine, buddy

Dumb meme, the 2 situations are not similar.

Yes, one is recent, impacts the West directly and a bunch of white people and the other is Palestine.
- Nope, try again
- How does a long time NATO ally not impact the west exactly? The Israel/Palestine confict has been in the news since I have paid attention to international politics.
- 2edgy4me
They're not identical but there are many similarities.
- Palestine is attacking israel.
  israel is fighting back
  israel is much more powerful and will level Palestine in an afternoon if they want
  does that give israel the right to level Palestine? no not directly. if you had a country attacking you, killing your citizens and you wanted them to stop and they wouldnt stop no matter what, what do YOU do?
  the US would drop a nuke in this situation to be a moral dilemma 70 years later.
  is Palestine stupid for talking shit and not backing it up yes. is israel overreacting? yes. Hindsight is 20/20 not that israel cares but Palestine should stop trying to be what theyre not
  feel free to educate me as i dont know much about this subject.

IMO everyone should leave everyone else the fuck alone and stop trying to be modern empires, but come on man, these are VERY different situations.

(Edit: what I'm about to say is a good bit wrong, but I'm not going to try and hide my mistakes. This article has a more complete history: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/why-israel-and-palestine-conflict-war-history-b2426050.html)
I don't support the violence at all, but this isn't a (direct) result of imperialism.
After WW2, the Allies were like, "what do we do with all these Jews? We don't want them in our countries." Then they thought, "why not Jerusalem?" But a bunch of Arabs were living there, but the Allies really didn't want more Jews, so they just dumped them all in modern Israel, told the Arabs this is Jews' land now, and recognized Israel as a state. Palestine has a right to be pissed. So this isn't so much an imperialism problem as much as a racism problem.
But still, Hamas are evil fuckers that take shit too far. Israel definitely is not the good guy and is not helping the situation at all, but this kind of escalation just makes shit worse for everyone.
- "why not Jerusalem?"
  That wasn't the allies, zionism predates the holocaust by decades, it's the literal promised land from their stupid fucking religion.

I haven't heard any reports of Ukrainians slaughtering fleeing civilians, though, so...

Hurr durr, now that a palestinian terrorist group is attacking is the best moment to be vocal about palestinian freedom

And you people wonder why you get downvoted?

You're telling on yourself. You genuinely don't give a shit about the Palestinian struggle. You just want them to sit down and take their genocide.
- Perhaps they could sit down when it comes to killing innocent civvies and stick to military targets. I have always been outspoken in Palestine’s favor but lines were crossed and nobody should support it.
Legitimatlly curious if 6 months has changed your perspective?

Simple, Palestinians are brown and have less resources that America wants/needs.

I’m with both Palestinians and Ukrainians.

Palestine has oil and gas same with Ukraine.

Both suck to be fair but Israel for me suck less. My reasoning mostly stem on their Ideology. Israel leans more to the US. Israel though recently leaning more to the extreme right, is still liberal compared to the rest of the nations in middle east. Woman has more freedom under Israel it seems. LGBT is more supported in Israel. For Hamas on the other hand has the same vibe for me with Taliban it doesn't help that it is supported by Iran and Russia. As for Ukraine I support them since they lean more to the West (EU and the US) and they are more democratic than Russia. That's my thought anyway.

So you support Israel committing genocide in Palestine because they lean west. Way to go lil bro
- No surprise, given that genocide is the foundation of the western civilization.
- Curious, Tell me why should I support the Hamas instead?
- Emotional responses don't lead to any solutions. Only reason will create a peaceful two state solution.

Dude have you seen what Hamas did yesterday? Kidnapping children, women, elders. Even burnt houses to get families out of their homes to kidnap them. No matter how sympathetic you are towards palestinians, no one with a right conscious can support them.

Israel has been doing this shit for decades. It's just blowback of unending oppression by Israel. People in Palestine can either wait and get genocided or fight back.
- Lol yup Israel has been taking down buildings for years taking people's life, history and financial gain and turn it to rubble because someone in the building may have helped hamas. No trial, no questioning, just a small bomb going off on your roof too warn you to run the fuck away before you die in a collapsed building.
I'm confused... Are the only choices hamas or Israel? Is that how people really see things?
I fucking hate this world sometimes.
- Israel/Hamas, trump/harris, people struggle with gradients

Warning: Some super-unique hot takes from edgelords here!

Proceed with caution...

Biden is 100% gonna support "Israel's right to defend itself", while they've been awfully quiet when Palestani people are getting murdered and their infrastructure decimated 🫣🤫

Fucking fascists

idk, from an american perspective, pretty sure the americans that support Ukraine also support Palestine, whereas the americans that support Russia also support Israel.

mostly certain.

No, there is a big group that supports Ukraine and Israel.
And that group includes a majority in Congress, President Biden and (in Ukraine) president Zelensky.
And then there are also the tankies that support Palestine and Russia.
Finally, a lot of people are neutral or non-aligned in Israel vs Palestine, including myself, but definitely pro-Ukraine.
- So, does supporting Palestine automatically make you a tankie?
I absolutely cannot keep track of the layers of betrayal and reconciliation. Anyone who tells you that an issue in the Middle East is certain is, at best, benignly unaware. It is utterly unsalvageable on both sides.
pretty sure the americans that support Ukraine also support Palestine
I'd like to see those people square that up with this: https://thelemmy.club/pictrs/image/90177c67-3aa3-4cb6-88cb-72c96b2a441d.jpeg
- i mean, supporting a country's current struggle doesn't equal supporting every view of that country's leader.
  shrug
But Israel supports Ukraine, hmmmm.

Ppl who have no idea how palestinian conflict started half a century ago commenting like 'completely different cases!'

Same ppl fifty years later and war continues in Ukraine: 'ok, now I get it'

It all started with this fuckin' Serbian dude getting a sandwich...

Tasteless

Let's make a list of all the ways Ukraine is different to Palestine.

We'll be here a while.

Ukraine is 7 letters and Palestine is 9
- Illuminati confirmed

Palestine needs a state and so does Israel

Broke: Two-state solution
Woke: One-state solution
Bespoke: Zero-state solution

I'm so proud of my government for acting consistently. They support Russia and Israel.

(I get why they're doing it, but it still feels wrong.)

Let me guess... India?
- Of course. Russia I expected, but I didn't know our government wanted Pegasus so badly.

Ukraine is simply more important to the countries bordering russia, the EU and it's allies

Ukraine is a sovereign nation that got attacked by another country.
Palestine just carried out a horrible attack on Israel. Plus the history of Israel and Palestine is totally different. It's just apples and oranges. I'm not claiming in any way Israel is right here, but Hamas is definitely scum of the Earth.
- Let me introduce you to the conflict. Hamas' behavior is a natural reaction to what israel has been doing for decades and will continue to happen. Both groups are insane fundamentalists. The only difference between them is one has the backing of the superpower and its media apparatus.

Slava Ukraine.

Rise up Palestine.

Burn the oppressors of the world and light our way to a better future.

Aha i'm going to have fun reading the comments. Liberals let their fascism show whenever geopolitics get involved.

I'm surprised more hexbears haven't jumped on this

Cant they just give the whole land to the Arabs, declare Jerusalem as a religious state (like Vatican City) and create a new Capital for the new Palestine Land?

This is called the two state solution, and it'd be nice. It's been tried and it failed, and that's why Israel and Palestine are fighting now. It seems like the best solution but so far Israel has never agreed to it.
- again, Isreal is a pain in the butt 😮‍💨
- How did they try it if Israel never agreed?

Russian propo like typing detected

I'd keep my hand up

Slava Israel 🇮🇱

I am anti oppressors and warcryers, sympathic to defenders, protectors and the dead. sometimes who the oppressor charges. I know asking doesn’t help but like please everyone stop killing eachother..

Ironically, it's not obvious wether that means you're pro-israel or palestine.

Says who buddy Bidens ass is getting reamed on this one