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81 comments
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I mean, from your own link, those error bars come from:
The data being a clustered sample set,
That study wasn't specifically asking whether or not respondents were virgins, ie, had 0 sex partners.
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The error bars there are large because the actual question was 'how many sex partners have you had in the past however many years?', and then your linked post explains how this particular dataset/survey/study was then presented to try to show the answer to a question that wasn't explicitly asked.
That can have a lot more variance than a survey/study that flatly asks binary question of 'have you ever had sex before?', and then goes on to define what does and doesn't count as 'having sex'.
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And indeed when you actually do that kind of approach, there are many other graphs from many other studies showing it being increasingly for both young men and young women to be virgins, have had 0 sex partners.
https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no
https://www.cdc.gov/yrbs/dstr/index.html
All of these show a marked decline in the number of both young men and young women who have ever had sex, that more people remain sexless for longer, to an older age.
(Though this started earlier among men and is more pronounced, women are now catching up as well)
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Also worth noting:
Compared to adult participants in the 2009 survey, adults in the 2018 group were significantly more likely to report no penile-vaginal intercourse in the prior year, the researchers found. Study participants were also significantly less likely to report engaging in any other sexual behaviors examined in the study, such as oral sex or anal sex. All modes of past-year partnered sex were reported by fewer people in the 2018 cohort.
Yeah, contrary to the implication of OP's image... no, young men are not having more of some other kind of sex than male/female p/v, but still having some other kind of sex.
They're just not having sex with a partner. At all.
Bros are not en masse becoming gay or bi or pan or trans, and then having 'non-traditional' sex that would make them not virgins in a 'non-traditional' way, not in the numbers you'd need to make that a statistically viable explanation for lack of m/f p/v sex.
This is funny haha meme joke, but its not based in reality, its based in whimsy.
You can check that against male self-id rates as LGBTQ and see that there has been a slow, gradual rise, from about 3% up to about 5% for men right now... but nothing like an 8% to 28% rise in roughly the same time period.
This one particular graph having error bars does not mean this is not a real thing that is happening.
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And in case its relevant, I am a queer guy who has had varying kinds of sex and intimacy with both men and women, trans-inclusive.
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Honestly I trust a plot with huge error bars much more than a plot with tiny error bars or constant error bars.
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So, at age 18, my virginity comes back if I lost it sooner? I lost my virginity twice? Neat!
(ignoring trouble with the word virginity and what the definition of even a sexual partner or something would be when the average reader perhaps thinks PiV penetrative sex).
Edit: as usual, I should have scrolled down first as others beat me to it.
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that's just a straight line with extra steps!
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Honestly, feels like they asked like 30 people total
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wordsmith, you've caused me to laugh, well done!
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I'd assume that there's actually more virgins between 18-30 nowadays, though. Loneliness might not be a specifically male epidemic, but it certainly is a societal epidemic in most western countries.
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I won't disagree that loneliness is an issue in our society. But I don't think it is the only "problem". Anecdotally for me: I wasn't ready to have sex, a relationship or for dating for a long time. So I'm mostly happy to have taken that time. In previous generations you'd marry and have kids for a while at that point. I think we have a lot more room to grow individually today.
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We also have more room to fail individually today. Don't get me wrong, I'm not proposing that we go back to where western societies were in the 50s, but there are definitely downsides to our current societies that need to be dealt with. Lonely people aren't just individual people who are having a bad time, they are IMO a huge threat for societal cohesion. e.g. they're much more likely than non-lonely people to politically radicalize.
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“Since they turned 18” also seems needlessly specific.
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Didn't you know? When you turn 18 your body hits the virginity reset button!
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I'm guessing thats to avoid some ethical grey areas. Or theyre specifically gathering data on men after highschool.
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I interpret the results as men between 18 and 29 who've never had sex. I'd answer at least 1 if I had sex at 17.
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Really depends on what the question asked. I'd mostly trust the GSS to report the data correctly, but not really trust Wapo to do so. I looked at GSS questions (can't view data on mobile) and it seems like Wapo might be being drawing some misleading conclusions from the data, as no question specifically asked this. Hard to be sure.
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Might be that they want to survey adults
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They can limited the survey to adults and just ask them if they ever had any “sexual partner” and it would have done nothing but make for more accurate results.
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They're turning the incels gay!
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Aren't they turning the gays to incels?
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There’s a brief period where they go full femboy first
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If they changed the question now they wouldn't have continuous data going back to 1989 anymore.
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People weren't gay until 1989 so that makes sense. Literally not a single one. 😏
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But society was a fair bit more socially conservative when discussing homosexuality.
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Me and my lifelong roommates having each other's backs throughout life. Its good to have friends.
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You're kind of not wrong in a way because in a lot of societies and cultures, even in the past, being gay wasn't seen as abnormal or it was a part of certain politics etc, so likely people could 'get away' with a lot more than they can now. There are and were also cultures where it's not seen as an other, which is the world we can all hope for.
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Sure, but like... maybe that data isn't really relevant or trustworthy either if that's how it was phrased?
Pollster: "Have you ever had sex with a woman?"
Closeted sexually active 28 year old gay guy when being gay could get you ostracized or killed: "Oh.... y... yeah! I love the vaginas. So... slippery and... moist (gag)"
Pollster: "NICE!" high five
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Yeah, this problem applies to all questions.
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You don't have sex partners.
I don't even have friends.
We are not the same..
Well unless you count my cat as a friend, but that seems one sided. (My cat doesn't see me as a friend, just a dumb monkey)
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The amount of Femboys...boy, you have no idea. Those aren't virgins.
They didn't wifes, so they became the wifes.
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I'm part of that group. One reason is I feel like shit, don't really like myself and want the best for the people I love. That ain't me.
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Are you talking to a therapist?
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Don't really like to info dump but, I have been to therapy. I've felt this way since before I hit puberty. In my oldest memories where I still recognise myself I've felt like this. I've sorta accepted that I'll feel this way for the rest of my life. Everyone experiences a range of emotions and for some people that range lies closer to despair than bliss.
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I mean, there aren't enough gay dudes out there to change the numbers much.
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There are more bi guys than society recognizes though.
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Ackshually, AFAIK around 5% of the population are homosexual. If that is completely ignored in the graph, the actual number would be closer to 22%. It could possibly be even lower if you consider bisexuals who just not had sex with women. And if you consider that homosexuality is much more accepted these days the numbers are skewed and the percentage could be even higher among younger people.
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AFAIK around 5% of the population are homosexual. If that is completely ignored in the graph, the actual number would be closer to 22%.
Assuming homosexual people are all fucking, which seems unlikely - the loneliness epidemic is real (whether it's the often-talked about male loneliness epidemic is another matter), and being homosexual further complicates it, especially for people who are looking for a relationship rather than one night stands.
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According to a quick google, men are overwhelmingly more likely to be gay than bi (as opposed to the other way around for women), so it wouldn't change that much.
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OP is saying gay sex being excluded, iiuc. Trend seems extreme since 2008, and it would be nice to see the spikes to 16% or so 3 times between 1989 and 2008. The spikes could be corelated to rising stock market bubbles for all I know. Seems over double the 1989-2008 average that I guesstimate at 12%.
Maybe gay men used to experiemnt with women to "find out"? Maybe harsher economic inequality keeps men home? It's not obviously internet porn, which became available in late 90s, though 20 years later would get a lot of under 30s.
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It’s not obviously internet porn
It's social networks and the loss of 3rd (and 1st) places. Everybody knows what the problem is. Everybody has some idea how to fix it (look how to fix car transit). Every person in power is intent on refusing to improve things in any way and making it worse.
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Trend seems extreme since 2008
Huh, just after the release of the first smartphone, odd.
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I may be a cis male, but if I can't get some from the ladies, bring on the guys!
I honestly had to reread it and think for a moment before I got it, but to my credit, I just woke up.
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They could have just removed the word "female."
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Direct results of all that Barney and Spermbob bullshit.
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They're going with human sacrifice rules
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"Jane, did you compare the percentage of teenage male Rex Manning fans to the incidence of homosexuality amongst teenage males?"
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81 comments
Easy. "Sex" is only P in V. Anything else isn't sex. Probably also the type of people that insist trans men aren't men, etc.
Uhh, I’m not sure you’re familiar with what sex is, if that’s your definition. After all, your description includes soaking, and those Mormon teens assured me that neither god nor the government would mind.
(psst, I'm explaining why they may have structured the question in the way they did, not explaining what I consider to be sex)
... What is soaking in this context (or should I avoid asking)?
trans people only make up a small percentage of the population and they don't explain the surge visible in the graph