OpenAI Furious DeepSeek Might Have Stolen All the Data OpenAI Stole From Us

Welcome, new industry heads. That's how it works. China takes a car, picks it apart and builds a cheaper car. That's what they've been doing for decades now.

That's par for the course, but it's hilarious that openai "we have to get copyrighted material for free because fuck you" is pulling that defense now.
- Yep.
We got angry when Japan did this in the 60s and 70s. I'm going to paste part of the opening from Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash."
Why is the Deliverator so equipped? Because people rely on him. He is a roll model. This is America. People do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, you got a problem with that? Because they have a right to. And because they have guns and no one can fucking stop them. As a result, this country has one of the worst economies in the world. When it gets down to it -- talking trade balances here -- once we've brain-drained all our technology into other countries, once things have evened out, they 're making cars in Bolivia and microwave ovens in Tadzhikistan and selling them here -- once our edge in natural resources has been made irrelevant by giant Hong Kong ships and dirigibles that can ship North Dakota all the way to New Zealand for a nickel -- once the Invisible Hand has taken all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity -- y'know what? There's only four things we do better than anyone else
music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery
The Deliverator used to make software. Still does, sometimes. But if life were a mellow elementary school run by well-meaning education Ph.D.s, the Deliverator ' s report card would say: "Hiro is so bright and creative but needs to work harder on his cooperation skills."
I'm kinda reminded of the tale of how the Zilog Z80 processor chip had dozens of little "tricks" built into it. It was being produced in Japan which at the time was famous for their chip production and for copying chip designs. Apparently their little tricks were baffling enough that it delayed the appearance of knock-offs chips by half a year.
looks at all my non-critical electronics.....
enshitification smells like Chineseium
That said, I like cheap non-critical crap
Ah the Burger King model

Look at its widdle toes! 🥹
- Those are clearly fiddle toes, in this case.
That's lovely.
Well I always thought I knew what the smallest violin looks like!

Would you download a LLM?

Would you hug a face?
Yes, but I don't have Nvidia hardware to run them
I would. I gave llamafile a try, and while it's good, they have an issue with parsing responses that have {{ and }} in them, so it's kind of useless for Laravel development unfortunately lol

There’s substantial evidence that what DeepSeek did here is they distilled the knowledge out of OpenAI’s models [...]

I will explain what this means in a moment, but first: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha.

LMFAOOO 😂😂

Gonna cry, technofeudalist lord?

I don't particularly agree that LLMs are nothing more than spicy autocorrect nor is it the end all be all super tool that AI tech bros overhype to death. It's somewhere in the middle with good usefulness and utility like any other tool as long as it's used properly. Like any other tool.
That being said, even if it was just a spicy autocorrect, it's the best damn autocorrect I've seen in my life and won't screw around with my ducking cuss words like the dumb autocorrect systems
- I'm pretty sure the autocorrect ducking with fowl language is because it has those words specifically marked not to come up in autocorrect, because kids do also use phones too and that would be enough to cause enough of a stink that no company wants to deal with it.
- I think it should be akin to the market effect of PDA’s in the 90’s.

It sounds like they just followed the precedent set by American companies. Maybe don't steal data and your data won't get stolen?

Good, I hope this is how the AI industry dies.

How would this cause it to die?
- If something ceases to be profitable, it gets no attention from corporations.
  Even something as simple as Deepseek replacing subscription services would tank these corporations who are banking on those fees.
- It would kill off American ai industry because it’s a pyramid scheme of bullshit and money laundering

Does the OpenAI TOS even cover no-take-backsies ?

Finders keepers giveth, finders keepers taketh away
Stealing for me, not for thee or Li

Is there evidence that DeepSeek is an OpenAI distillate other than OpenAI and Co's protestations?

It's literally impossible. I tried to explain it here: https://lemmy.world/comment/14763233
But the short version is OpenAI doesn't even offer access to the data you need for a "distillation," as the term is used in the LLM community.
Of course there's some OpenAI data in the base model, but that's partially because it's splattered all over the internet now.
- Thank you 🙏
Not distillate, they just trained on the outputs of openai

Wherever you fall on the anti-AI spectrum, I thought after the past 2 decades of piracy we had come to the conclusion that you can't "steal" data, copying != Stealing

If anything, this is kind of making people realize the opposite. It isn't stealing when it is corporate (or creator...) but it is TOTALLY stealing when it is individual people... who aren't authors or artists.
The fun part is that "creating" datasets for training steal from everyone equally.
- And when it comes to authors and artists, it amounts to wage theft. When a company hires an artist to make an ad, the artist gets paid to make it. If you then take that ad, you're not taking money from the worker - they already got paid for the work that they did. Even if you take a piece from the social media of an independent artist and make a meme out of it or something, so long as people can find that artist, it can lead to people hiring them. But if you chop it up and mash it into a data set, you're taking their work for profit or to avoid paying them for their skills and expertise to create something new. AI can not exist without a constant stream of human art to devour, yet nobody thinks the work to produce that art is worth paying for. It's doing a corporation to avoid paying the working class what their skills are worth.
I can’t recall a time when I downloaded an album, pretended I made it, and tried to sell access to it.
- That's not how training works with LLMs at all
Uh, who is "we"? Piracy is still illegal and not everyone approves of it.
- Oh, you're one of those weirdos that report people shoplifting at Walmart and probably was also the "Teacher, your forgot our homework" kids
- Maybe in the mainstream, but the open source, socialist and anarchist communities that populate lemmy tend to be very critical of ideas like intellectual property and copy right.