Based and Red Pilled Gigachad, many such cases 😔

To be fair, everyone's views are shaped by propaganda of some kind, it's quite literally unavoidable if you exist within any society. Lots of people like to think that their ideas are just the product of their own independent thinking, but that isn't really how people work.

The key is to be constantly aware of it. Never follow someone blindly.
- So, for example, don't blindly accept casualty numbers for Russia directly from the Ukrainian government?
- That's true, but you still follow some propaganda. You are aware of it, great, but what's the difference between someone following the propaganda being aware of it and someone following it blindly?
The current state American society has been in for the last 10 to 15 years is heavily a consequence of Russian info ops. Many countries run info ops. But no country has done as much damage as Russia
- Yeah, no. American Oligarchs did social media. Youtube, Twitter, facebook, instagram all American. First they did it for money now they are doing it openly for power. Cambridge Analytica, anti-vax, anti-trans, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant all of these are made by Americans to poison the world. And they are going to do much worse with AI. Americans destroyed the world.
- No other country has done as much? We're gonna just ignore how much support Israel has thrown behind Trump? Netanyahu was meeting and communicating with him during the 2024 election cycle, all while ignoring the Biden administration! Snubbing a sitting president for a prospective candidate!
- We need a national online forum
You're not wrong. I like to think I'm immune to proponganda because I'm anarchist but it's pretty obvious that I can be fooled just as easily as anyone by the pretense of speaking truth to power
- My then history teacher said everyone is affected by propaganda, even trained and studied individuals like him. To think you are immune to influence from other people is very naive.
Yes, but most propaganda is not specifically fascist in nature.
- Is there propaganda that is fascist in nature? It's bad propaganda then. Can you give an example? Propaganda should always be for all good and everyone's happiness. Specifics don't matter, you can bring the followers wherever you want later.
While that is true, some propaganda is definitely more harmful while some others are relatively harmless.
its one thing to have different kinds of propaganda , but RW only consume 1 kind of pure propaganda as thier sole source of information.
I am not going to believe your propaganda! My pristine, untainted thoughts won't take this slander. /s
For sure, but the Kremlin is like Sauron, and most other propaganda is about which stew is best.

ML is basically the same too.

whipping out my Horseshoe Theory graph
So, as you can see, the tips of the horseshoe are where the Russian Propaganda lives.
- I prefer the Pac-Man interpretation
- Hey horseshoe theory, wanna... touch tips?
Documentation Megathread
So I've seen.

Yeah, let's just ignore the right-wing think tanks, the majority of conservative/MAGA influencers who aren't on Russia's payroll, and right-wing "news" organizations. It's totally just Russia and not right-wingers trying to destroy the country to grab all the power for themselves...

What's so insidious about russia's psiop over the last few decades is that all they've done is gently nudge the dial. They've sown distrust of traditional media and of democratic institutions, they've polarised discourse to that communities that mostly rubbed alongside one another reasonably well now are so idealogically opposed to each other that the middle ground has evaporated.
And if you think "haha stupid MAGAs" falling for propaganda, I got news for you buddy, you've fallen for it too.
- You've fallen for propaganda that convinces you that there is an external enemy to worry about instead of actually looking at the situation critically. Right-wing organizations drive right-wing talking points.
  They’ve sown distrust of traditional media and of democratic institutions
  Pretty sure they did that to themselves. I didn't need Russia feeding me propaganda to see through the bullshit, and many others reached that conclusion on their own. The Fairness Doctrine being repealed is one big reason why traditional media failed. Russia didn't do that.
  they’ve polarised discourse to that communities that mostly rubbed alongside one another reasonably well now are so idealogically opposed to each other that the middle ground has evaporated.
  Right-wingers and liberals alike have polarized discourse. Leftists aren't innocent either, especially MLs (many of whom seem to be biased towards Russia), but there are plenty of leftists I have interacted with or witnessed that are exceedingly fair, empathetic, and human.
  Liberals blame anybody to the left of them for not falling in line, constantly mock or berate them for demanding better, and do absolutely nothing meaningful to improve their preferred party or seriously advocate for greatly improving the human condition in America. As for the right, we all know what they do.
  middle ground has evaporated.
  Politics and governance shouldn't be a game of tug of war where the Republicans have a monster truck pulling their side and Democrats are pretending to hold the rope on their side. It shouldn't be a tug of war game at all - that is what breeds polarization. It shouldn't surprise anyone that a two-party system and biased, partisan "news" (that is literally entertainment) results in polarization.
- And if you think “haha stupid MAGAs” falling for propaganda, I got news for you buddy, you’ve fallen for it too.
  Good thing you're immune, though. Now tell me more about how all of the West's problems are actually because of a vast conspiracy theory of evil foreigners.
If you look into it an amazing amount of them are further funded by Russia. Not solely but enough to make them bigger than they'd be otherwise.
- If you look into it an amazing amount of them are further funded by Russia.
  You seem to know more than me based on your response. You are claiming an amazing amount are funded by Russia, are there any decently recent sources which support your claim that you can direct me to? Do these people also take money from US-based right-wing organizations?
The majority ARE on Russia's payroll, it's literally how they got famous. They were blackmailable, due to crimes including visiting illegal porn sites and snuff sites, which has content literally made by Putin of his prisoners and people he dislikes to warn others to stay in line and to get blackmail.
So Russia picks someone they can blackmail FIRST, and THEN has them make content that they advertise and have bot armies (slaves, human slaves) talk about in comments etc. They do this EXACT strategy wirh crypto tickers and with fundraisers like for Gaza. If the bots (HUMAN SLAVES) do not perform well, they get tortured, starved, etc. It is literally thousands of people in these networks, and they are working in concert with BRICS, not just Russia.
Rightwingers are just the excuse BRICS needs to "liberate " the US from Nazis. They need a Nazi takeover, but an incompetent one, so they can attack us and look like the good guys and still win. Our economy is collapsing, healthcare and food and farming (which farming is the foundation of the stock market fyi) all collapsing. Education collapsing. It's bad already from their attacks, idk how it isn't obvious.
Maybe you didn't pay attention to when it happened to other countries, thats why Romanians, Serbians, Georgians, Slovakians all saw it and protested. It's also why Russia explicitly labeled Ukraine as being taken over by Nazis and insists Ukraine is a proxy war started by the US and EU. It's why they fund Nazis (AFD) in Germany. It's why Elon supports the AFD. Elon also betrayed the US by illegally giving Putin Starlink satellites in 2022, which were paid for and funded by the US. That's a huge part of why he was so freaked out Trump would lose - he should be sitting in the ICC right now for being a traitor and giving Putin those satellites.
- You can source your claims. I'll wait. There is too much here that is hyperbole or speculation and not based in reality, even if there are points sprinkled in that I agree with largely or in part. If a majority of right-wing influencers are literally and currently traitors, that is a serious accusation and requires serious proof. Let's do something about it if you have evidence to support your assertions.
  And social media companies are the ones promoting these influencers and their channels and putting people in bubbles with their algorithms. Not properly moderating comment sections is also a choice of social media companies. Advertisers also have no problem funding these right-wing influencers either.
  Citizens are responsible for keeping their countries healthy, their media fair, and their governments and elected officials representing their interests.
  As for BRICS "liberating us" from Nazis - no, we got this. Farming was already unsustainable for reasons unrelated to Trump.
- This is literally qanon tier conspiracy theory
They haven't been on russias payroll for years.
They genuinely believe the shit they swill. By and large the paid agents were 5 to 10 years ago.
You know America is cooked because even the liberals refuse to believe that any flaws in their glorious perfect country are home grown. They can only be the work of subversion by evil foreigners
Yeah, I don't think they need to be on Russia's payroll anymore. They're in deep.
- How is Russia controlling their talking points now? I'm responding to the OP's meme. Is everybody on the right threatened, blackmailed, or are otherwise under duress? We know they aren't the most intelligent bunch, but they are being traitors for their own reasons - for the most part.
  The major talking points mostly came from the aforementioned organizations and outlets even when some of these people were being paid.

So 80% of lemmy.ml users?

Probably not 80% of their users, but definitely the majority of the active ones.

Im seeing this just after having a while conversation about conservative Christians making a big deal about 'finding truth in faith' after the Kirk shooting and this feels similar to me

There's this clear implication that the 'truth' can only be found through your ideological worldview, and a complete abandoning of any attempt at justifying or supporting it through reason. Any piece of information that's misaligned is dismissed as propaganda - but what's especially annoying is that it doesn't even have to be coherently opposed to truth but merely distracting from what's supposedly more important.

Americans are one of the most propagandized populations on the planet - but I wouldn't even put Russia in the top 5 sources of it.

russia is behind most of the propaganda, and they do it to both sides too. its one of thier core strategies to distract west from russias geopolitical aspirations. i think russia has USA beat on being propagandized, usa is probably 2ND, if at most 3rd.
- You know America is cooked when even liberals are coming up with grand conspiricy theories to blame all of the countries problems on sinister forigners. Any evidence that "russia is behind most of the propaganda, and they do it to both sides too"? Of course not, but it feels right, because it explains the current state of things while still maintaining American exceptionalism, so that's good enough.
That's Kremlin propaganda my friend.
Divide from within.
- It doesn't bode well that even American Liberals are all turning into the villain from Dr. Strangelove.

THE LARGEST MOST COMMONLY WATCHED BEST FUNDED MEDIA OUTLET ISNT MAINSTREAM MEDIA!!1!

😡

How else do you define "mainstream" than 'most commonly watched'? TBH, ALL of the major news teams (CBS, ABC, CNN, msNBC) have succumbed to PumpkinLord's rhetoric (almost NO calling out his lies or unconstitutional ploys).
Fox is the Eye of Sauron. May Reagan burn in intolerable hell for unleashing that shit upon us.

I personally like to listen to both sides of the story so that I can absorb 2x the disinformation

They cancel each other out if you're lucky
- It depends on the phase. Sometimes you get constructive interference and they add up instead.

TBH, Rupert Murdock HELPED Putin refine/put RT on steroids. He was marketing his propaganda (division) here in the USA since Reagan let him through the door. Russian extras are just a bump up in the last 10-15 years.

and in return putin works through FOX to spread the propaganda in favour of the gop as well. tucker, jesse waters, laura ingram, bill oreily. is there to handle things.

Uh huh. The ol’ ‘anyone who criticizes NATO proxy wars is a Russian stooge.’

As opposed to the old "only the Great Powers have agency" gambit, which is actual Russian propaganda. Heaven forbid countries other than the US, Russian and China be even conceived of being able to take actions on their own.
- And what actions are those? Like partnering with the west to install a far-right regime?

I'm not entirely sure why all of this is being blamed on Russian propaganda. To me, that seems like a lame excuse for the US getting itself into this mess.

In any case, there will certainly be no mysterious agents coming to rescue you from your self-imposed fascism. You'll have to do that yourselves, so I would strongly recommend that you stop assigning blame and finally do something—otherwise, you won't be able to post on Lemmy anymore because you'll be brought into line by the state—then you could complain about Russian conditions, if that were still possible.

You don't know why because you are PROFOUNDLY uneducated about it or you're a Russian bot yourself (ps most bots are human slaves, not robots).
Here's a documentary from 2018 with McCain and Clinton: https://youtu.be/5umiMThrlsA
There's also the book American Kompromat by Unger that goes into SUBSTANTIAL detail for DECADES and shows how Russia has been accruing blackmail globally.
And then multiple protests globally (Romania, Georgia, Slovakia, Serbia) regarding online Russian interference plus many many memos including from our own government.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2766
Russia has engaged in MASSIVE MASSIVE online warfare, including on Lemmy (eg, you, maybe). It's more effective than bullets and biowarfare in some ways. Idk how you can't see how big of a deal it is.
- Russia has engaged in MASSIVE MASSIVE online warfare, including on Lemmy (eg, you, maybe).
  I love completely unsourced xenophobic conspiracy theories topped of with McCarthyist witch hunting
The best propaganda takes advantage of flaws already present in a culture, it doesn't try to create new ones
- You mean like propaganda taking advantage of the fact that most Americans are already incredibly xenophobic to blame all of America's problems on evil foreigners
- This is an extension of the adage that the best lies contain elements of the truth.
I’m not entirely sure why all of this is being blamed on Russian propaganda.
Because liberals are nationalist American exceptionalists, so they need to find something to blame Americas problems on other than America itself

I only trust cats :3

I see you're in the (warm furry pockets) of big cat!

Hello! First up, I just want to say that you're right. Russia has committed crimes. So, let's at least understand why that happened, so we don't go around like hypocrites pointing out maga for believing Russian propaganda, while you and I believe western propaganda.

In 1991, after the illegal and undemocratic dissolution of the USSR through neo-liberal shock therapy against the overwhelming majority of the population, fifteen states, which had not previously existed as fully independent countries in the modern, internationally recognized sense, were born. Of which, Ukraine.

Unsurprisingly, when you go from a planned economy to a market economy and the state start rapidly selling assets, the result is inflation, corruption, and instability.

Additionally, Ukraine's geopolitical location keeps it interesting for western imperial interests. Being the second largest country in Europe, bordering both NATO, Russia, and the further Eastern Block, and a transit country for 2/3 of Europe's natural gas from Russia, it of course plays a big role in the regions' stability. Just interfering in the transit of Russian natural gas is enough to make Russia, a great enemy of NATO, suffer catastrophic economic hardships.

Given all those reasons and access to the black sea, and that's how the west convinced Ukraine to trade in its nuclear arsenal for "security assurances" in 1994.

Trying to balance a relationship with both Russia and the West all the while the country faces massive inflation killing living standards and eroding public trust in the government, leading to constant leadership changes, but its not enough to explain the initial western intervention in Ukraine.

Since the beginning, NATO has been looking to get its hands dirty in Ukraine, making non-meaningful peace deals to "strengthen relationships". A 2008 poll shows that 55% of Ukrainians straight-up opposed joining NATO and only 20% were in favor.

In a Russia-Ukraine-USA agreement, Ukraine was compensated with millions by the USA and low-enriched uranium fuel rods by Russia in exchange for it completely dismantling its nuclear powers. US Aid was given to Ukraine from the beginning. However, while this was crucial in the beginning, it did not come without a price. The US has claimed as a matter of foreign policy that "For a stable and secure Ukraine is essential for a stable and secure Europe" through the establishment of the "Vice Presidency of the European and Euro-Atlantic Integration in Ukraine", which has made Ukraine's pro-western stance clear since. This was even reinforced by constitutional amendments in 2019, embedding NATO and EU membership as "strategic goals to actively pursue''.

In 2004, "The Orange Revolution" marked by widespread protests and reforms. As accusations of election fraud was made (hmm sounds familiar) and that led to new elections. That is true, but from the beginning, the organization of the protest is suspiciously too organized as if they were receiving some kind of help. Until this moment, the US promoted over 65 million dollars to "promote democracy in Ukraine" mainly through organizations like freedom house and national endownment, which had, big surprise, agitated many of the youth by organizing rock concerts and setting up posters all over. In the next so-called revolution, Ukrainians protested against the association agreement to reject closer ties with the EU to balance ties with Russia. The narrative was told that riot police and the such were deployed and even shot protesters. What is left out of this conversation is the involvement of far-right groups Свобода. Although they were a minority, they had a large backing, resources, and organization. They were widely occupying government building especially in western Ukraine. The EU and the US staged participation in the protests, actively supported the far-right reactionaries, and a later leaked phone-call reveals US efforts to influence the formation of a post Euoropia government. Poland also played a big role through funding and pressuring the EU to integrate Ukraine into so-called "European norms". Image the inverse. Imagine Russia actively funding and supporting anti-government uprisings in lets say Mexico to match its interests in weakening the USA. Imagine a leaked phone call with Putin practically choosing the next leaders of Mexico some even being Russian themselves. Just for a second, think about all this and forget the US exceptionalism. Before moving on, its important to mention that Russia wasnt just standing by all this time. Russia conducted covert and overt operations in the presidency and later in Crimea and Romas. Don't mistake me for being a supporter of Russia. I hate it with all my heart as much as you do, but situations like these need nuance.

Since the 1990s Russia has seen western intervention in Ukraine as a direct threat and was its reasoning for invading Crimea. This constant push and pull between the west and Russia caused the Ukrainians to suffer under a collapsing country being influenced by foreign entities. Even with all that, in 2014, Ukraine took a massive 17 billion dollar lone from the IMF and of course, the IMF implemented neo-liberal policies further ruining life and interest continues to rise so high to the point of insanity. This also further strengthened the already present and powerful Ukrainian oligarchs by major tax cuts yet the payroll tax remained at 50% placing even more burden onto the working class.

With all this in mind, it should be very clear that the policy towards Ukraine and Russia throughout the previous decades has produced outcomes opposite to the stated goals. The US says it views the strategic positioning of Ukraine as a buffer state. It's not like this is a surprise. Even back in 2008, CIA director William when he was serving as the US ambassador to Russia stated "Ukranian entry to NATO is the brightest of all redlines for the Russian elite (not just Putin)... [it is] a direct challenge to Russian interests...". Another show of this is the Russian progress made, while the US was debating sending more money to Ukraine. Ukraine is heavily dependent on western weapons and supplies and can not survive on its own. Yet, peace deals are ignored for the continuation of Western imperial interests at the expense of Ukraine, which needs peace negotiations not continued war and western intervention. Defense secretary Lloyd Austin explicitly stated "The US goal in Ukrain was to see Russia weakened due to the war", which is not the case at all and the lack of peace deals and continued western intervention not only is making Ukrainian lives more shit than they already were before the war, but also resulting in more and more countries being involved, potentially leading to WW3 just for some petty western interests.

I truly hope the best for Ukrainians and Russians impacted by this war and hope all of this ends.

FOUND ONE!

Damn... I'm desperate, but even I wouldn't suck that

Some feel special for being contrarian!

I mean, sure, like a year ago but at this point I also don't trust what the government and mainstream media say.

Same statement from me, very different result. Death to fascists!

Sorry, op. I'm locking this thread to prevent this comment section from becoming a dumpster fire.