ceiling rule

I'm pan, and I think of it like this:

Pan means you're attracted to people regardless of their gender. Bi means you're attracted to more than one gender.

No hate though, if anyone else defines them differently. That's just how I see it.

Yea, pan here, too. That’s how I always understood it. Gets a bit more nuanced though, when you include omnisexuality.
- Omnisexuality??? Ok, I accept that as Gen X I’m old. I grew up stating I was Bi because that’s the term we had at the time. Now I still say Bi, but clarify “or really Pan as the kids call it nowadays because I believe all the toys in toy box are fun to play with and I value the person (and personality) over plumbing”. Now what is Omni?
I think of it like this: bi is attraction to masc men and fem women.
Pan is attraction to all configurations of gender, genitals, and presentation.
- Nah, people like twinks and femboys also more likely to call themselves bi.
- That definition of bisexuality would exclude 100% of the bisexual people I know, including myself. I don't think it's grounded in any sort of reality for bisexual people.
- yeah, this is how i've always seen it
bisexual.py:
python

def is_sexually_attracted_to(self, other): return other.gender in self.preferred_gender
pansexual.py:
python

def is_sexually_attracted_to(self, other): # TODO: factors based on other traits TBI return True
Close enough?
- Accurate.
I never thought of that because I never tried to define it. I'm just happy you found something that makes you happy.

Debating identity definitions 😞

Accepting that identities are fluid definitions we made up 😎

Correct! "Whatever floats your boat as long as it's consensual, just be safe and have fun" should be the only thing we need.
- Agreed.
  But humans are humans, and a big part of our wiring is forming tribes and excluding people from those tribes. Thus the exponential proliferation of classifications.

Basic answer: Bi likes two and maybe more, where Pan explicitly likes any, which you use just show's your starting point.

Real answer: Those who resonate with using Bi as a label likely started or wants to start on a common level of understanding of LGBT, whereas people who resonate with Pan start deep into LGBT discourse.

True answer: It's which flag you like better.

True answer: It's which flag you like better
My bi ass feels called out by this, so I'm going to say that makes you based
I spent a while trying to find a simple answer to this. I think it's most easily interpreted as:
Bi: Implies you like both of the genders. No real preference.
Pan: implies you recognize there is a range of masculinity and femininity, and of course cis and trans, and thus you are attracted to a range of genders. Not explicitly feminine or masculine, but likes anyone on the spectrum of genders.
- bisexuality isn't inherently transphobic!
  not saying you're necessarily implying that, but it's a general stereotype which, while it can be true on an individual level, certainly isn't when taken as a whole
  here's the bisexual manifesto, also, since it goes hard: https://bitheway.carrd.co/#manifesto
- I think the main problem here is that even people within the community confuse "sex" with "gender".
  Sex is a biological concept. According to biology, mammals have two sexes. Period.
  Gender is a social/cultural/psychological concept. There's a whole spectrum of genders.
  Wouldn't that mean that "bisexual" is someone attracted to the physical/biological attributes of of both sexes, while "pansexual" is someone attracted to the range of social/cultural/psychological attributes on the gender spectrum?
My understanding is that the bi in bisexual never refered to two genders, it's always been about homo- and heterosexual

Easy: bisexual people are REALLY into cycling and pansexual people can't contain their lust for Andean flute music.

From my experience this is honestly as good as any other definition in this thread.

How about pansexuals who just say bisexual because there is better chance that people will actually know what you're talking about

(Just in casual conversation with strangers, obviously.)

I honestly think this is the most common scenario. Both people who self-describe as bi and pan will have varying preferences, and I think it's typically more about audience and communication than any universally definable difference.
This is similar to how a binary bi or pan person who tends to date people of the same sex or gender might self-describe as gay; they're not creating a binding contract when they do so, rather they're providing an easily-digestible description of their sexual or romantic character to others.
Hi, that's me.
Although even "pansexual" is a shortcut. I think my actual sexuality needs hyperbolic geometry to explain.
- Ah, a Lobachevskysexual.
I think at this point I've seen far more people who identify as pansexual than bisexual.
literally me
yes

One is sexually attracted to bicycles and the other one is in to cookware. I can't remember which is which.

Bisexuals are attracted to cookware (think "biscuits"), and pansexuals are attracted to bicycles (think "panniers").
- Is that why the gay girl in my circle of friends keeps announcing that she got a new toaster oven?

I suspect in the long ago, there may have been some drama about bi implying only two, and people taking exception to that but we have since moved on after realizing it was a stupid argument. There were far more important things to argue about, like kink at pride.

Yeah, I'm bisexual because I need either a penis or a vagina for sex. I've run into others saying that this makes me transphobic, but as an AFAB agender person, I find it deeply disturbing that there's "progressives" out there who'll admit they can't respect me as a person if they don't want to fuck me.
- Yeah you'd think the community would be a little more accepting of people who don't fit a strict definition, or don't present a certain way.
  But it's just as judgemental and gatekeepy as every other community. You have to present a certain way or say you're a certain thing to fit in. It's very depressing and has made me even more cynical.
For a very long time I would respond to questions about my sexuality with "I don't like labels". I wasn't being glib or evasive, I just didn't like how diminishing it was to reduce my entire life's experience and decisions to one word. I tend to interpret the more creative labels people come up with in the same vein. For me, trying to enforce a rigid definition on other people's self-labelling misses the point entirely.

Is your stalac tight or full of might?

It's so funny that the queer community debates this when we could really just ask the average non-queer person to clarify it for us, and you'll find out that it really just means that we're confused and actually we're just gay.

Hey now, that's not always true! Some of us are confused and just seeking attention.

In my opinion they mean the same thing. I identify as bi because I like the flag more.

Yeah, back in the day people really cared whether someone was octoroon or mulatto.

Today, many people are going to have to look up those terms.

People should know their antiquated slurs. They're always fun to pepper in a conversation.
Hello my fellow quadroons
- A mulatto
  An albino
  A mosquito
  My libido
They are going to find that Archer ringtone.
- I know this might surprise you, but there is a small minority of the population that hasn't watched every episode of every show ever made.
  For those poor souls, it might be nice to add a link so they know what in G$d's name you are talking about.

People are debating this because they are approaching this labels as descriptive point of view, instead of descriptive point of view.

Have you considered the descriptive point of view though?
Prescriptive* point of view, but yeah, pretty much.
- Yeah, can't speak for other sexuality labels. But I feel like Pansexual and Bisexual are practically same, and difference is simply different people using different labels that describes them more :3

Bi means someone finds male and female genders attractive (masculine or feminine). They probably aren’t attracted to androgyny or less “traditional” genders (since it becomes pan).

Pan means gender doesn’t matter. Enbies, trans people, and anyone else could be attractive.

In other words, Pan is Bi++

If we aren’t splitting hairs, they are mostly used synonymously, but “pan” is more precise for folks that open to partners regardless of their gender.

Wrong

David: "I do drink red wine, but I also drink white wine and I've been known to sample the occasional rose and a couple summers back I tried a merlot that used to be a chardonnay which got a bit complicated."

Bisexuals know what pan means.

I have no interest in participating in freaky alien sex as their 43rd gender partner.

LOOK AT YOURSELF, PANS, THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE SKIN

Bisexuals know what pan means.
(It means bread)
Nervously defends my cookware cabinets.

It's easy, bi means two and pan means all.

Yeah, but I've also never met. Bisexual person who had an issue with dating more than two genders, save for a few people who just have issues with nonbinary people. And I don't think being a bigot is its own sexuality.
And rail means rail

Not to be confused with getlaidmites and getlaidtights. :)

Pansexual is explicitly inclusive of gender having more than two options. A bisexual person might be attracted to both men and women but may not be interested in genderqueer, third gender, intersex, or other "other" category people.

bisexuality isn't inherently transphobic!
it's a general stereotype which, while it can be true on an individual level, certainly isn't when taken as a whole
here's the bisexual manifesto, also, since it goes hard: https://bitheway.carrd.co/#manifesto

Idk but I feel like a lot of the distinction is really trans-exclusionary. I so frequently see it defined as bisexuals date "biological men and women", whatever that means, whereas pansexuals also date trans men and women. My issue is that I just see trans men as men and trans women as women, so why should I need an extra descriptor for my love. It feels like it's othering them, as though bisexuals shouldn't love trans folk by default, and that feels like total bullshit to me.

sobbing by how common this take is
bisexuality isn't inherently transphobic!
it's a general stereotype which, while it can be true on an individual level, certainly isn't when taken as a whole
here's the bisexual manifesto, also, since it goes hard: https://bitheway.carrd.co/#manifesto
regardless of where we fall in the bi vs pan argument, i think it's really important we don't let reactionaries define bisexuality for us!
I've been around a while and I never heard this interpretation up until very recently.
Ever since same-sex marriage passed, certain well-funded bigot groups have been explicitly and deliberately engaging in a "divide and conquer" strategy for taking down progressive movements. First they pushed transphobia as a Feminist quality. Now I guess the whispers are that bisexuals are trans-exclusionary, which in turn is stoking biphobia too? Don't fall for it.

lmao I was asking myself this but just hesitated to look it up

I guess we should start teaching Latin in the Church-Schools so that MAGAts grow up knowing the roots of words. It might diminish any future sexual orientation hostility for those folks to understand that 2 and more than 2 are not synonymous. Once we get there, we'll be back to the 1950s!!!!

I'm bi because I have all the symptoms, finger guns, awkward puns, can't sit in chairs properly, require at least three beverages at any given moment etc.

Also, the flag has all my favorite colors.

Also, I could just be old? Lol

To be honest, a person's gender and/or genitalia are easily the least interesting things about them to me. I tend to feel sexual attraction only after establishing connections with people, which I believe has another name, demisexual. However, throughout my life I have dated men, women, nonbinary folks, folks who had no idea how to define themselves, etc.

My current partner is a man, but if he came to me today and told me he was trans and wanted to start living as a woman, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. If he wanted to get fake tits but keep his dick, also don't care. I love him, and "he" is so much more than his body. It makes perfect sense in my head and that's all that really matters I guess.

I've had friends argue with me that "you're actually pan!" but the word doesn't personally resonate with me. Anyway, I find most of the discourse around labels slightly reactionary and/or virtue signally, "I'm a true queer/queerer than you!", type shit. Pick your favorite color flag and go have (consensual) fun!