Android is now warning of Firefox sharing data

Even if this isn't entirely true, you know Google wouldn't pass up the opportunity to reduce Firefox market share to scare everyone back to Chrome.

- Yes, chrome is doing something different. It is even worse!
- That's not the point they're trying to make I think. It's more of an attack on perfection. Like "the alternative is not perfect either so why not just stay with Chrome". It's not a very strong argument in general but it might be enough to keep people from switching.
- No but where are you going to go. The options are shrinking.
- It integrates into the Google ecosystem well, and if that has value to a person it may just be enough to bring them back to chrome.
I wonder if they say people should be careful with Chrome 😂
- they don't have to! they microsoft explorered that shit
- The story I heard was that by of California's definition of selling data, doing anything with user data that could benefit the company was considered selling data. So they updated their FAQ to be in line with that definition. But I could be wrong, if someone could point me to a good article I'd appreciate it.
- terrible choice of link. There was a stack of reporting from various tech-news sites and blogs; but you've given as the nazi site.
There's no need to reduce Firefox marketshare. Most people don't even consider using anything else than whatever is default in their device.
Also, it's not a Google scare tactic or a flex. Every application on the Play Store must disclose the general outlines of their data policy, including the sharing of data. Lying with those checkbox is not a good idea but they are completely informative and put there by the publishing party, so the people responsible for publishing Firefox on mobile just updated these, and this is what is shown when an app publisher say their app is sharing data with third parties.
tl;dr: it's very likely that not a single soul at Google even looked at this, as this is just the regular behavior of the Play Store with apps that changes their data policy or indicate sharing user data with third parties.
- Why the dichotomy between the chrome listing on the store then?
There isn't to much to reduce. I don't think Google is scared or afraid by Firefox, like at all.
So you're advocating that Google shouldn't broadcast that firefox is broadcasting your current location? Even though they do this for every other app available on Android, you're saying they shouldn't do this for firefox?
Why?
- This notice is effectively added by the Firefox developers when they select the ability to enable location services and also tick a box thay they collect data.
- They want to scare people to stay on Chrome now that they discontinued support of uBlock (not that it was ever supported on Chrome for Android anyway)
Lol if Google really wanted to kill FF they would just stop paying them half a billion a year.
Firefox? You mean the company they give several hundred million dollars/year? Yeah I don't think they're too worried. They need some number of users on Firefox to prevent anti-trust issues. Which they're on the brink of right now.
- you're right Google's not worried.
  as for anti-trust, they're already in sentencing phase.

Google warning you about Mozilla is just peak fucking irony

God damn why's the world so shit

i know, thats some really late stage capitalism bullshit.
It really is. Literally everything is shit and I'm so fucking over it.
God damn why’s the world so shit
Society empowers and encourages shitty people that only care about their own kind/tribe, is why.
_This _comment _is _licensed _under _CC _BY-NC-SA _4.0
- Society empowers and encourages shitty people that only care about ~~their own kind/tribe~~ themselves, is why.
My understanding is this is due to regions broadening the definition of "sell" to include any form of personal data transfer. So Mozilla giving location info (with consent if you enable "ask every time" in the permissions) to websites to look up local store hours or whatever is "selling data."
AFAIK, nothing has changed in Firefox.

"Quick! Jump to chrome instead!" - Google spokesperson

FWIW I'm not seeing this on the Play Store for Firefox 136.0.1 on my Pixel 8a, and I'm not seeing any warnings on Beta or Nightly either:

I don't see it from installs direct via Obtainium, either.

i mean it's just because you can grant websites location data and toggle telemetry.

As of the latest Chrome update on PC, they have dropped support for uBlock. You can still technically enable it, but they disabled it by default once you update.

That got me back to Firefox with breakneck speed.

Frankly speaking, calling out Google and Chrome, then moving to Firefox while Mozilla have been doing it's best Google impression for years now is not that great of a plan.
I wonder how long Firefox will be ok with all that, since Mozilla bought that advertisement business a while ago.
- The main problem is that building a web browser is extremely difficult and everyone else uses Google's version of WebKit. So there's no alternatives: it's either Google or Mozilla. Forks don't count because if some functionality that end users need is deprecated, nobody will maintain it and it will just disappear once it's removed from the main codebase

That's a regular notification, which would happen for any application whose data policy is changed on the Play Store page. These policy are as declared by the app publisher. This would be the same for any application that didn't check that "sharing data with third party" box earlier, then checked it later on.

I don't get what your comment is getting at. I don't view this post as saying anything special or unique about the notification. I see it as a warning that Firefox is now doing this.
- Have you read all the other replies? "Google mad", "Google putting Firefox in the dirt", "False info", etc.
- The legal definition of "sell" has changed in several major markets, and that's (supposedly) why Firefox has recently changed their terms. The word "sell" is now ostensibly broad enough to include "give to anybody for any reason", including if you use Firefox for any reason where you would legitimately want and need Firefox to give ("sell") your data - for example if you use it for: literally any shopping or even just browsing store pages; any interactive (real world) maps where you may want to use your location; any searches where you want local businesses to be listed; any search engine that may want to use your location to aid in results; etc. etc. etc.
  Any legitimate exchange of data can now be construed as "selling" because of the new legal definitions, regardless of if anyone is actually selling anything.
  It's very possible that nothing has changed - that Firefox hasn't started selling user data, they're just updating their terms (and this app listing) to reflect the changes in the legal definitions of "sell".

I know, right, the fucking balls of Google to fucking say this
- Because they are legally obligated to mention it?
This is not at all a pot kettle situation, there is no reason to warn about Firefox.

Isn't that just because Firefox got access to location data because some site asked for it?

Wait a second. You're expecting Google to not FUD? Ha ha ha oh wow. I mean I didn't actually expect them to do so, but yeah.

Google: "Forcing us to divest Chrome could have impacts on our ability to support Mozilla and their high executive salaries as we own the space with Chrome."

Also Google:

Pretty easy to disable the location app permission or set it to ask every time. Firefox hasn't asked me to enable it since turning it off.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Firefox won't ask for or use your location, unless a website wants it for some reason (which is almost never a good one).
- and even then, for me at least, the dialog that pops up is broken and lot of times the "Allow" button literally does nothing
Didn't they also elude to collecting telemetry recently? I know it's up for some debate but, if true, I'm not sure that's a thing we can turn off.

Okay, turned it off. If a site needs my location it can ask me and I can politely tell it to fuck off unless it has a warrant.

Deactivate from settings Have https always on, protection against tracking on strict, data collection and daily ping on off.

And that's it.

fennec vs ironfox opinions?
- Fennec - Firefox build with some proprietary stiff removed; repo
  IronFox - Firefox fork (forked from Mull) with a bunch of hardening changes (notably resistFingerprinting enabled); repo
  IronFox is more ambitious, which means higher maintenance load and more likely to fall behind. Fennec is much simpler, so less likely to fall behind, but also doesn't change much from Firefox.
I've not heard of ironfox before this thread! Could you possibly link it? Doesn't seem like it's on FDroid or IzzyOnDroid
- You have to add IronFox's repo in F-Droid before you can install it from there. This is their Github link.
- In addition to what others have said, it can be downloaded from the Accrescent app store:
  https://accrescent.app/
- IronFox is on F-Droid. That where I got it from at least
- its for android, mobile.

Do they mean “Firefox can get your location data to pass on to pages you give permission to, who we cannot guarantee won’t share it with advertisers” or “Firefox reserves the right to do a deal to monetise the tantalising firehose of location data coming from your device unless you specifically opt out”?

Who can say
The former, but the language looks vague enough that they could do the latter eventually. My understanding is that they have to be vague in the language for legal reasons (e.g. to appease regulators in various markets).

Friendship ended with Firefox. Waterfox is my new best friend ❤️

IceCat.
- Unfortunately I am primarily an android user, as I always have my phone with me.
  I shall give it a go for desktop at some point though

So if Mozilla wants to monetize location data, what does this mean for all the custom ROMs that use Mozilla's location provider instead of Google's?

This might mean that we would have no true free location provider left.

Edit: just was thinking, what does this mean for Firefox forks that also use Mozilla's location service?

So if Mozilla wants to monetize location data, what does this mean for all the custom ROMs that use Mozilla's location provider instead of Google's?
Nothing, because they dont sell location data, this just seems like a routine warning that pops up when ToS and Privacy policy changes, and since they have clarified their position on this matter, (not to mention the lack of alternative FOSS web engines). We really shouldn't let this bother us
Of course i might be wrong and it may come out that Mozilla has turned heel(lot of heel turning happening lately)
wait, mozilla has a location provider? maybe there is open street map, idk what's the difference between a map and a location provider
- My (probably incomplete) understanding is: phones have a GNSS chip (such as GPS, Galileo, or Glonass), but getting location from that takes a long time and a lot of battery. So they estimate location based on other information such as what cell tower they are connected to and the list of available wi-fi networks. This requires a database with all that info, which Google built through its Street View cars.
  So the location provider is a service to which your phone sends all the info it has and which replies with an estimate of your location; which means it handles a lot of sensitive data.
Fork it, split it off, share it.
No custom ROM use MLS anymore. It was shut down a few years ago.
Anyway, in general, apps get their location data from Play Services.
Apps that don't use Play Services get data from the default provider, which is always Google.
The successor of MLS is BeaconDB.

Firefox engines have telemetry since old ages. Do you know what even crazier ??? even other firefox browser like fennec has Mozilla telemetry.

PSA : disable it with Blocker (ROOT) for more privacy

Sending telemetry like crashes and what features you use/don't use isn't really in the same category as using location data for marketing purposes. It's a very important distinction to draw.
It has a mozilla telemetry component, but that doesn't mean that it's necessarily reporting to mozilla - which wouldn't make much sense anyway - nor that it actually functions at all. Most telemetry components in Firefox can't simply be deleted because it causes stuff to break, so they are replaced with stubs that don't actually do anything.
- Assuming that's all it's really doing.
For a novice, what exactly is Blocker (ROOT)? Is it an app, a setting, or a configuration?
- Its app that you can downloaded in F-Droid, basically it's a app that can control other app components. But before that you must Root/Unlock bootloader

Alright gang, what are some good open source Firefox forks available on Android and Linux?

Librewolf for Linux. And ironfox on android
- On Desktop I use Zen Browser. On Android I still use Brave, but I'm considering switching to a non chromium browser there some time.
Waterfox

I had already downloaded and installed Ironfox (FF Android fork) on my phone and have been using it for a week or so. It works identically to FF for android. Ublock Origin is working in Ironfox too.

Fennec is great on Android

I've been pretty happy with it as my casual web search browser, putting all my social media on a different browser. And it's in F-Droid, so that always feels good.
- Firefox is maintained by Mozilla, Fennec is a custom build that removes some stuff, and is maintained by some Russian person who I'm pretty sure isn't affiliated with Mozilla (get here by clicking the "Issue Tracker" link).
  It's not a fork since it's built from Mozilla sources, it's just a build script.

use ironfox or fennec

pot -> kettle

Explain?

Do they share location data without asking though? Google has an incentive to exaggerate.

Looks like its enshittification continues unabated :/

I stopped my donations to Mozilla.

Been using Libre Wolf, no issues so far. Fuck Firefox

Librewolf is Firefox plus some light patches, and as such depends entirely from Firefox.
- It looks like they have a team and it’s open-source. It’s a gamble, but I’m guessing the death of Firefox would probably be a boon, not a hinderance, depending on who supports what from there.
Does libre wolf have an android app?
- IronFox is the closest alternative. F-Droid repo here:
  https://f-droid.org/packages/org.ironfoxoss.ironfox/

Vivaldi is where it’s at

Nope. That’s still chromium based and further serves Google’s monopoly on the web platform.
- Strips out all the tracking bullshit
- That said I’m open to better alternatives. I’m working hard to protect myself.
It's closed source and chrome(ium)(?) based. I'm not entirely convinced by Vivaldi.
No, it's really not. Fuck chromium of all flavors.

Well, if there was any doubt before, with the weird ToS p.r. dance they were doing last week, now we know, for sure.

I've already switched to LibreWolf on the desktop. Is there a good non-Firefox browser for Android available?

_This _comment _is _licensed _under _CC _BY-NC-SA _4.0

IronFox, Fennec, Mull, Tor Browser
- Mull is supposedly no longer being developed.

You know what they say about people who live in glass houses...

Sigh

Mullvad is really for anonymous sessions. It's meant to blend in with every other Mullvad instance on the Net so it helps make users harder to identify. It's not geared towards daily use.
On desktop, I switched to Librewolf and installed the Dark Reader add-on.
I will continue using Firefox on Android because I have absolutely no illusions about my privacy on this fucking thing.
- GrapheneOS is pretty good, as a more private alternative to Android, though the downside is that it's only available for Pixel phones. I bought a used one on ebay.
Fine. I preferred Fennec over the two for quality of life and ease of use balanced with privacy.
It doesn't exist on Android AFAIK, so it's irrelevant here.

Many Linux distributions will need to dig Firefox looks like . I use Fennec btw , and in desktop Libre wolf since a long time.

Any good browser suggestion??

fennec - it's foss firefox mod, without google and other tracking garbage
I like Zen. Waterfox is also good.
- for android?
- I like Vivaldi

Well, there seem to be some good safe alternatives. I am currently switching from Firefox to Vivaldi, for example.

Isn't Vivaldi a chromium browser?
- Hmm I didn't know that. I was looking for more data privacy. However, there seem to be good alternatives.

does anyone actually have a good privacy in mind alternative with sources to back it up?

How about turning off data sharing in whole android... Google...

Iceraven hasn't burned me yet

I don't use default firefox for this damn reason.. I hope that Mull Fork gets going soon.. I've been in refuge in IceRaven since that time..

Ironfox?
- yeah that one, I forgot I have it installed haha but it looks promising if proven to be reliable in updating to new versions

Genuine question to see if the downvotes are justified or not : are you implying Chrome is a good browser and if so, why?
I personally don't want there to be only one browser engine - Chrome. All other browsers use their engine, or the one powering Firefox. That's actually my main concern. I don't know about you, but Chromium being the only web browser in the world is pretty fuckin scary.

calyxos here I come