2y ago

e(thicaldogfucking)/acc

Anatoly Karlin @powerfultakes

Replying to @RichardHanania

I'm against legalizing bestiality because the animal consent problem hasn't been solved, but probably actually will be quite soon thanks to Al (at least for the higher animals with complex languages). So why not wait a few more years. I don't see disgust as a good reason. It was an evolutionary adaptation of the agricultural era against the spread of zoonotic illnesses, but technology will soon make that entirely irrelevant as well.

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There's no animal I'm aware of that has a mental capacity beyond that of a child. We don't think children are capable of giving consent - are we clearing the way to legalise paedophilia too, or are there animals with the mental capacity to provide informed consent that only lack the ability to communicate that consent?
Spoiler: It's not a communication issue. If this technocratic psycho was more concerned with actually contemplating the morality of the question, and less focused on rearranging the insides of a parrot, his takes might be a little less monstrous.
- If this technocratic psycho was more concerned with actually contemplating the morality of the question, and less focused on rearranging the insides of a parrot, his takes might be a little less monstrous.
  It's always funny realizing those who think they're asking the tough questions that others aren't smart enough to consider only ever talk about the same handful of topics: putting down minorities, advocating white supremacy, whining about anyone to the left of Pinochet and fucking animals/kids.
  Like that's 95% of the content on the Motte or "I"DW.
  
  lgbt rights bad because Chesterton fence something something.
  also
  Consent standards:
  (╯°o°）╯︵ ┻━┻
  (ᕗ ͠° ਊ ͠° )ᕗ [dolphussy]
  
  Kinda makes you wonder what they'd be capable of if they stopped spending all their time whining that they can't say the thing they never fucking shut up about.
  
  or "I"DW.
  ah yes the interminable dork web
  are they still running that theme?
  (e: shower thought, had a better i)
- Considering that US Republicans are OK with marrying and impregnating 12y olds, everything is possible, sadly.
  
  ...and that's just what they openly advocate for - It sickens me to contemplate the bit they're too uncomfortable to share.
- I don't want to endorse dolphin fucking or whatever but idk if we can necessarily very accurately map non human intelligence onto stages of human intelligence development. Like human children can idk stack blocks but they're also very emotionally volatile and forgetful. Whales can't stack blocks but they have a lot of emotional stability, good memories, and large stable social groups. How do you map between that? They're not human.
  In some ways non human animals appear very similar, especially other mammals and their social relationships and emotions. In other ways they appear very different. They're their own thing and I think overly simplifying their minds by trying to work out some human age equivalent will just mislead us. It's not like a pig that can do calculus would suddenly become a reasonable romantic partner haha.
  
  It’s not like a pig that can do calculus would suddenly become a reasonable romantic partner haha.
  as a pig that can do calculus, this explains why I'm still single
  
  Agreed - and for that reason (particularly when balanced against the questionable benefit), I think it's wise to err on the side of caution.
- I don't know, those blue whales look mighty submissive and breedable tho
- Philosophical question: if brutally torturing and murdering billions of animals is fine, why do we draw the line at sex? I’m a vegetarian and have never ideated it, but the position is untenable.
  
  HMMMMM I WONDER
  shots are on me tonight, vegetarian reply guy with pretend opinions was my last square before blackout!
  
  “I can excuse bestiality, but I draw the line at animal cruelty”
  
  I think your framing is flawed (I don't think it's an issue of consent so much as it's an issue of creating animal suffering for personal benefit), but I broadly agree - I personally get past the hypocrisy because I have no interest in fucking animals, and push the suffering I cause by eating animal products to the back of my mind and pretending it's not a thing. Responsibility is also meaningfully abstracted in the food example, making it far easier to pretend you're not at fault compared to having a chicken impaled on your dick.
  In a similar way, people consuming products made in sweatshops and people downloading CSA material are both exploiting children.
i like how he sees the "consent problem" as just a communication thing. "if they could speak, they would be saying yes"
- perhaps he’s not hoping for “animals able to enthusiastically consent” but is in fact hoping for “animals amenable to participating in the free market and the world’s oldest profession”
  
  "I don't see disgust as a good reason" shows he hasn't considered reasons why a chihuahua would dissent
- To be fair, the animals might be reverse furries.
Why do I feel like this guy knows exactly how far a Scooby snack gets you.
How the fuck will LLMs help you flirt with Mr Snuffle paws? What is going on in this guy's head?
It's fascinating seeing everyone project onto this things. Like a rorschach test of desires. You have the madcap industrialist slavering over firing all humans, the nerd rapturists, the sexbot enthusiasts, the doomsday preppers, and apparently dolphinfuckers now.
- LLMs are AGI, high intelligence is magic, so the AGI can not only understand language, it can understand the language of all beings, or if that is not possible, just uplift their intelligence and make them intelligence? How you ask? Well
  
  you just gave me a great idea for a comedy show.
  Nerd makeover except gpt is fed an image of the contestant and asked how to make them over. Contestant then goes to a mingle or speed dating or whatever. Using guidance from the chatbot on what to say and do.
  Can we bait tech cultists into this?
- Well first we feed it a big corpus of books written by dogs, and then we get a little shaggy with Scooby if you know what I mean.
- Lol @ the Scooby snack line
I don't think anyone else has said this, so I shall.
What in the actual fuck.
- This is so hard because every one of his arguments is wrong, but the worst thing is that he's arguing this at all.
of all the hills to die on, why would anyone pick this one lmao
- Because they want to fuck animals?
- These are the thoughts of the smartest people on Earth. If you don't get it maybe you just aren't that smart?
I don’t think the guy even understands consent tbh.
So why not wait a few more years
The world this posits is wild. First, you’ve got a person wanting to commit bestiality, but only wants it if it is legal, otherwise, why wait? Second, we’re going to both translate animal language (or neural activity if you wanna go steelman) into human language and back. And third, we’re gonna use that to successfully teach animals sex education (that, mind you, many countries already don’t have a great track record on teaching humans sex ed). Fourth, somehow these animals will be able to comprehend any of this in a meaningful way for the legal system to recognise their ability to consent (again, bad track record). And fifth the animals will actually consent.
higher animals
like, birds?
I'll be shocked when dude builds his translator, and every animal, rock, and inanimate object reliably says how much it wants to fuck him. Could the translator be wrong? No, he must be that desirable.
If there's one thing I'll definitely take a very conservative stance on, it's that beastiality is absolutely disgusting and should not be legal, ever. If it's something like Sonic or a fictional drawing of an anthro on e621, fine, but if it's your pet dog Helga, you need serious help.
- Why do I keep getting myself into these "It's okay to fuck Sonic the Hedgehog if you must" chats
  
  It's okay brother, Sonic will take care of you
  
  IDK, but he did get the princesses kiss in '06.
  
  Sonic the Hedgehog is canonically 15, by the way.
dear internet vegans trying to start fights online by comparing eating meat with raping animals: fuck off
dear insecure meat eaters who think anyone gives a fuck you don’t like vegans: see above
Gotta wonder if that’s in any way related to how so many of those assholes have a hate-on for furries
- holy mental gymnastics to make furries sound normal
  
  it’s almost 2024 and somehow you still hate furries enough to announce it to strangers on the internet
  
  People: having fun, doing their thing, not harming anyone
  Lemming: EWW FURRIES
Knowing just a smidgeon about how the statistical parrots work, I wonder were they will get the dataset for the animal languages.
This reminds me, I read an article in Nature about teaching dogs to read. Now, this was a 19th century article in a 19th century Nature, so it described how the author had written "food" on a note and placed it on the food bowl and placed a blank note on an empty bowl and eventually gotten his dog to fetch the note that had "food" written on it. Alas, due to unforeseen circumstances, it was hard to expand into more advanced literature.
So where to get the dataset? Nevermind, Magical AI to the rescue!
- It reminds me of the classic story of the guy who trained his mule to subsist without eating. He trained it by giving it less and less food every day,but just when it was about ready to go without food,the stupid animal died.
  Science can be frustrating sometimes.
- there is project to document as many whale noises as possible to build whale LLMs called Project CETI (get it like SETI but it's for Cetaceans ahahahahaha like you put a C instead of an S so it's like a double pun ahaha Cetaceans are whales btw haha)
  
  That's cool! Conversations will be depressing as fuck though.
  "Hey whale how's it going?"
  "Umm weird, you can talk. Hey will you please stop killing us?"
  "No can do whalearino, only a tiny handful of us think we shouldn't kill other animals"
  "oh... ok... Do you think you could stop throwing garbage in our home then? "
  "hahaha Whaley old pal you crack me up "
  "Sonar? "
  "Not on the table old chum, now go dash yourself against that beach over there, I've got an ocean floor to map!"
Evolution is when all of the animal fuckers die from zoonotic diseases.
- But soon they won't because we'll have something something TECH something something HEALTHCARE
  
  Techlords are coming to rescue with animal sex dolls and bots.
  
  the only time they'd consider funding (actual) healthcare is when it affects them
- death by single-celled dog up the urethra
hey chatgpt, how do I bit flip my dog translator?
the animal consent problem hasn’t been solved, but probably actually will be quite soon thanks to Al (at least for the higher animals with complex languages)
- You're on the right track. It's long been established that non human animals cannot consent to sex because of the power difference between them, even if the non human animals could communicate well.
- The point is, how do we know that "animals can give consent"? "If you have sex with me, I won't kill and eat you" is like the epitome of power imbalance.
looking at his dog what if the ai consents tho...
- I keep rereading the phrase "why not wait a few more years." haunting
Every time I hear the name "Richard Hanania" it's in the context of this type of thing or worse. What's his deal?
- iirc he was some sort of Trump person who was outed as writing for a white nationalist site and then Musk became on of his reply guys and he got quite a bit of fame from that. But I could be wrong.
  (After writing this, here is his Rationalwiki entry and Wikipedia, guess I was wrong on the Trump thing. And bonus link Musk Reply guying)
- He's a slavering racist who is inexplicably respectable.
🤨📷
If killing animals for the entertainment of your palate is morally ok, then raping animals for the entertainment of your dick/vagina should also be morally ok. You dont need to do either of these things, yet 95%+ of people continue choosing to do one of them. Is it weird that some people think it is ok to also do the 2nd thing?
And in before "what if the animal consents and we can talk to animals through AI". You can talk to children and you still shouldnt fuck them.
- shut the fuck up
- I do tire of over and over explaining to vegans how the natural predation cycle works and that if aliens picked me up off the earth and promised to tend all my injuries and illnesses and give me all the food I could ask for in exchange for a slightly shorter than natural lifespan and as painless a death as they knew how to make it, I'd probably take them up on their offer.

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