The Browser Wasn’t Enough, Google Wants To Control All Your Software

I’m bothered that big companies, especially tech right now, no longer see their customers as people they need to please to stay in business, but instead as something they’ll inconvenience and squeeze as much as they can possibly get away with.

They all got to where they are making, at one point, amazing products. Now? Fuck making windows useful, we can throw ads and AI at you every place we can think of. Fuck all of the parts of Android that made it stand out, we tell you what to install. You don’t want all of your data scraped and sold? Fuck you, there’s 3 of us and we’re all doing it. In fact we’ll never stop finding new ways to harvest data.

Phones have basically stagnated entirely in the US. Sure you get moderately better chipsets, but what else? AI? I haven’t had a phone struggle with anything in… maybe 10 years. Instead features that people didn’t use enough just get removed.

I feel like this is the new normal cycle of every software company. Once they become a leader, it's never enough. It replicates the rise of billionaires. Just as the billionaires being rich beyond anything they and all of their succeeding generations could ever spend is not enough, being the industry leader and producing an amazing product that people want is somehow not enough. It always turns to control and power.

I can't wait for AI to become a living corporate trillionaire entity and fuck us all to the end of humanity.

Are we already nostalgic for analog oligarchy?

Time to back to the analog world and short wave radios.

Lemmy would rock in Morse code
- It would only be days before someone builds logic gates using Morse code somehow (who am I kidding, it probably already exists), and we recreate the entire thing again lol

I came here specifically to ask about alternatives to Android now that google is becoming too abusive in the relationship.

Custom Android ROMs based on AOSP, which is the open source parts of Android. I used to use LineageOS back in the day.
Before buying a phone, make sure that it has an unlockable bootloader and a custom ROM of a recent Android version. Note that some phones have multiple versions for different regions and some might not be unlockable, while others are. For example many Samsung international phones are unlockable, but none of the USA models are.
Note that many commercial apps like Netflix, Pokémon Go, bank apps, etc. will refuse to run if your bootloader is unlocked. It also permanently trips Samsung's Knox.
- Unfortunately, this seems to be something that might be changing in the future. Google isn't going to be open source with android development anymore.
Not android or apple. I'll go to a prepaid flip phone before I give apple a cent. They're essentially the paragon of greed.
GrapheneOS works well. But only on pixel devices.
- Ironic that you need a Google smartphone, isn't it?
- That's unfortunately a dealbreaker for me. I have a free phone from some company I've never heard of and I don't plan on buying a new one. Hopefully we will see more progress on mobile operating systems in the coming years.

As shitty as M$ is, it would have been nice to see Windows phone become moderately successful and be a third primary mobile os.

I'd prefer that firefox os had caught on and turned into a big player today
I disagree. That would've just been more garbage like with the xbox.
- I’m playing gears on PS5 as we speak. Ha ha. What a shipwreck XBOX has become.
That's would just be Windows 11 S _Mobile _Edition, but you do not get the option to upgrade to Windows 11 Home _Mobile _Edition as you would on a PC
Or maybe you do get an option, but its a subscription for $50 per quarter-year. 🫠
- And 16GB storage (because everything is being saved to OneDrive anyway).
Meh, that's not real competition... the big one just collude
I would have rather seen the development of BBOS10. It was so far ahead of its time.
That whole thing we do with swipe gestures to navigate the android interface? Yeah BBOS had that years ago.
I miss my Passport.
- I still have my BlackBerry Passport.
I didn't hate my Windows Phone when I had one.
- I did, it fucking sucked
with chrome, ope, edge

Fuck them. I have a guitar a pocket watch and a wind uo radio. Everything have is a nicety.

I kinda want a 2.5" round screen fit into a pocketwatch case. Give it an nrf52, lora, bt, wifi.

The year of the Linux mobile is coming.

https://furilabs.com/shop/flx1/

As long as companies can keep pumping shitty, almost entirely closed off android phones that cost less than 200 dollars for consumers (selling hardware at a loss while making up for data harvesting and sale), "linux mobile" will be just another meme along with "year of the linux desktop"
IS THAT A FUCKING HEADPHONE JACK!?
Let's go 🔥🔥🔥
- Standards are low huh?
It's nice, and good to see more of a push. However, I think kill switches for at least microphone and camera should be the new default. It's absolutely ridiculous to walk around with an internet connected mic and a camera that looks at your face whenever you look at your phone. Personally, I'll never carry a phone around anymore that doesn't have mics and cameras desoldered or there's a kill switch. For the back camera a cover with a slide is fine, but doesn't really work with the front part.
- I just put stickers on the selfie camera.
- I would carry around a flip phone if my work didn't require Passkeys generated exclusively from MS Authenticator.
Sign me the fuck up!
The specs look quite decent, and it even has an SD card slot. I really would love to get away from android.
Neat! And a removable battery.
Debian too! Always liked me some Debian, super stable.
I want to believe, I really do. But I fear that the crypto apps people have grown dependent on will make it harder than the desktop battle. And IDK but I seem to recall every year since at least 2001 being proclaimed to be the year of the Linux desktop.
I rely on my banking apps (plural), governmental email app, government authentificator app and the governmental LMS app for public schools to make my everyday function. And the last time I tried just a custom ROM, those apps refused to run.
is this legit?

now it's just a race for the giant conglomerates to make the worst decisions for consumers

Your computer no longer "computes", its just a barebones terminal to access a "virtual pc" in the cloud.
Good news, you don't need to pay $1000 for a good laptop, all you need is this $50 windows machine that only runs a client that streams a live feed from MS Headquarters
Bad news, its a subscription, stop paying and you lose all files.
Wait a minute did you type a "Eat The Rich" document, sorry can't have that, violates ToS, deleted.
- Fahrenheit 451 x 1984
Yep. There's no such thing as competition any more.
Tech companies are just gas stations across the street from each other.

okay well goodbye Google, then

what's the alternative here?

Yeah that's the issue, when it comes to mobile, anyway
!remindme 2 years
- Does !remindme work on Lemmy?

I'm not giving up my off the market pixel dungeon mods.

Shattered pixel dungeon? Or is there another version?

Are you kidding me? How am I supposed to live in this damn Orwellian society that is coming?

Look up Microsoft in the early 90s and how we all got through it.
- tbf, we all got through it by just going to other platforms. now there’s almost no other platforms to go to because big tech either pressures them until they fold, or sell to them and become part of their umbrella as some shill company or they remain independent but still use big tech software to run their backend, so your info ends up going to them anyway.
  i think in the future, everyone will be forced into surveillance by default and those who don’t will have to either pay dearly for privacy or learn how to program their own security. checkout project gideon that’s already getting pitched to the united states government and other governments from israel. it’s literally that show “person of interest” plus
That’s just it. You’re not supposed to live. You’re supposed to be controlled.
🦉 258

The EU's been breathing down Apple's neck for them trying to do similar shit, so i find the timing kinda weird.
Plus they'd need to force-update their spyware first, i wonder how many versions of android they're willing to go back.

I think the update is already installed, just waiting for the kill switch.
Yet Apple has been able to profit from their walled garden for decades now. Doesn't that set a precedent that it's okay? I honestly don't blame Google for going this route—it's inaction from our policymakers that has created the space for abuse.
- The EU has been targeting Apple for years now for not allowing sideloading (the whole Fortnite drama) and ruled that no, Apple can't bar users from installing shit.
- When our policymakers take direction from capitalists, it’s ok to blame to capitalists.

Fuck google

Easily the most disgusting company in the planet and it’s funny that their old motto/slogan was ”Don’t be evil”.
- Sounds like you're not familiar with Oracle...
- I've recently gotten to think that the company which made the basement for all these disgusting companies is usually viewed as not just not disgusting, but almost holy. Meaning Sun. So, maybe, judging the tree by its fruits, the most disgusting company was Sun.
  I mean, I know that everyone who used their products and of course people who worked there are still in awe and remember it like a Soviet summer camp shown in the Everlasting Summer game.
  But perhaps that's misguided. They've built the hierarchical systems, the infrastructure, for all the dystopia of today, and their code still powers much of it.
  Also you know how the second competitor in an almost monopolized market is sometimes considered an accomplice of monopoly? Because they are strong enough to support some of its ways, while the rest are not. So they reinforce it. I'm also looking at Firefox writing this. Literally.
  Perhaps we'd have a better environment office-wise if LibreOffice and OpenOffice were not a thing. They support MS formats, thus indirectly contributing to MS dominance. The network effects work in a few different ways, while were it different, those desperately needing MS documents would use MSO, at the same time those just needing some office suite would possibly not.
  Perhaps that can also be applied to Unix and Unix-likes, Sun made a lot of momentum for Unix and Unix-like desktops when they contributed to TCL/Tk so that it became a tool for making Unix and Unix-like desktop applications easily. And when they created Java and Java applets in web browsers prepared the public for scripts in browsers and cross-platform applications served over net.
  Yes, it all felt like heaven behind the corner, but perhaps they are to blame. What if.
  After all, much of that was free or for the cost of a CD then, and free cheese usually is part of a trap. Perhaps if instead commercial competing platforms, like Amiga or even Apple, were to gain more following, we'd have a different world. All those development resources couldn't have been gifted (Sun in the 90s, I mean, and honestly many universities) out of nowhere, something made that worth the expense.
  Or, if we want free and open, Lisp environments are somewhat easier to hack on (also again about TCL, it kinda approaches that in convenience for a non-programmer to make something simple, quick and dirty, but good enough), and accessibility to wider, eh, masses is meaningful here. So maybe GNU shouldn't have gone with a Unix-like system idea. I mean, OK, they do have a Lisp environment fit for everything, it's called Emacs.
  BTW, about disgusting companies coming to mind first, I'm not disgusted by Oracle, in comparison to most other big ones they do honest business. I dunno why they are hated, uncle Larry says dystopian shit with enthusiasm and no remorse, but at the same time his company sells exactly what it advertises. It's all kinda open and straightforward, it's the "one rich asshole called Larry Ellison" company, which may not be what someone likes, but is certainly better than companies actively building worldwide digital fascism (it, of course, offers expertise and help to those who do in case they need it). Also he's really a self-made man. Unlike all those other types from good families, good environments and with good education.
  OK. I just have that conspiracy theory brewing in my mind about Sun actually being evil. Sorry.

Is this only google phones or all of android?

Anything that "officially" has the google play store.
- Sucks. Thanks.

google is pissed people were deleting that spying app on android phones, plus thier constant attack on adblocking on youtube wasnt working to well. since samsung and iphones pretty much walled in thier os, why not google.

Spying app?
- Google play is spyware

The infuriating part of the Google enshittification process is that there is absolutely nothing the user can do about it.

Literally the only thing that motivates Google is profit. Controlling side-loaded apps will almost certainly boost their profits by a infinitesimal fraction of a percent, therefore it will be done. Even if consumer uproar causes Google to back down in the short term, they'll simply implement this a few months later. Late-stage Capitalism sucks.

This is not late stage capitalism. This is mid stage at best. The entire economy and world population could be shrunk down to literally pennies, as the wealth gap widens. It could have us ending up like district 9, or Elysium as broad examples. The govt and entities have not even started cracking down on illegal activities, loop holes, bank accounts, cash spending, crypto, and more in the super strict enforced fashion they could be.
While rightly fucked up and enshittified. We could be so so much further down the capitalism rabbit hole of hell. Everyone should be boycotting and avoiding the largest companies as a whole. No change you make goes unnoticed. You might be less than 1 percent but the snowball effects happen. Movements, parties, resistance, change, software, everything adds up.
So what you can do. Don't go mentally insane about it. Most things don't require THAT much effort. A simple tweak here or there makes an impact.
You can stop using all Google products. Now I understand their market share on the web means they’re going to continue to shape the web.
But make no mistake. There is something, however small, that you can do. De-Google.
- You can stop using all Google products.
  My public school -- that my children are basically required by law to attend, remember -- is badgering me to sign a consent form so they can have Chromebooks.
  This fight is a lot fucking larger than mere individual boycotts!
- De-Google
  The complaint is side loading is being restricted and the only long term alternative Apple. Google already began the process of shutting down Graphene by cutting drivers out of AOSP.
  https://www.androidauthority.com/google-not-killing-aosp-3566882/
- De-googling will break banking apps, since most baking apps rely on Play Integrity checks and bootloader status.
- I will help hand hold anyone who wants to build servers or services (to the best of my ability) to replace Google services with their own.
- You can stop using all Google products.
  That may be true for you, but other people face different realities. When Google implements the sideloading block it will eventually be pushed to everyone who doesn't use a custom ROM.
- Honestly Googles products are terrible these days. I have been pretty lax about my privacy but after so much enshittification I switched my services to something that works and doesn't harvest my data for the privilege.
  When they kill off Graphene/Custom ROMs I'll switch to a linux phone or brickphone.
- Now that AOSP is closing, what are we supposed to do?
- I was thinking of switching to Proton. I use Gmail, Google Photos, Google Messages, Drive, Keep, Maps, Docs, Sheets. I pay $2 a month for 100gb and unlimited photos on Google. It's a good deal. The fact that I would have to find out out to make a server, buy storage, piece meal a bunch of open source software that will inevitably not work without tinkering all makes it so easy just to pay the $2 a month.
- Uhh... how do we stop using Android? I mean, these recent attacks by Google seem like they're going to break GrapheneOS and friends, no?
I think they are more conscious than to be driven by small margins (another example of such underestimation is Lenin's "they'll sell us the rope we'll use to hang them").
It's like boiling frogs - a very slow process of attracting users, slowly killing competition and diversity, slowly making the ecosystem more and more controlled, then slowly making "neutral" systems not neutral anymore (like those features of Chrome making security exceptions for Google services found a few years ago), and slowly desensitizing people to leaps of faith they do trusting Google (and other companies), while the trust accumulates into total control.

And they can suckle upon my peener.

I'll go to Graphine or something else before I let the company for whom "don't be evil" was too bold a statement dictate my fuckin' choices.

I already ditched Windows. Can't be that hard to cut Google out too.

Graphene has locked itself to google hardware, and google can cripple them at any point by stopping bootloader unlocks. We need to go deeper, or aim higher as it were
- They haven't locked themselves to Google hardware by choice, it's the only hardware with the security features they need so far.
  Remember graphenes goal is a very secure OS, not just a more private degoogled one, for that there's /e/os and other options that support more hardware.
- They have stated that they're more than willing to work with any manufacturer who is prepared to make a device that meets their security standards. But as it stands, Pixels are the only unlockable devices that meet that standard.
  Someone like Fairphone could do pretty well from a tie-in with Graphene. But it's up to them.
- Not that they locked themselves but other vendors locked and isolated themselves by not provideing enough hardware and software security measures so graphebne will be able to strenghten them

that spy app they were using a few months ago was just the first test.

What is this people keep referring to it

When reading cyberpunk lore, quickhacks didn't make any sense to me. Some programs that break cyberware because of backdoors, but why would people install cyberware with backdoors?

Now I look at the sad state of mobile market and, yeah ok, that makes sense.

That makes sense and all but where does the poison come from??
- Some really vicious backdoor that contains dangerous substance in a hidden chamber? Not a far reach when we are talking about corporate backdoors normalized.
- I mean the cyberware is a direct neural interface so presumably it must be able to manipulate and alter the levels and balance of your neurotransmitters. Im sure increasing aome to insane levels would have pretty toxic effects, like serotonin syndrome for example.

Yeah well luckily for them, people don't seem to know how to write anything but webapps anymore anyway.

In an environment most convenient for making webapps people make webapps.
It's not even such a wrong idea honestly, if the "web" in "webapp" were a bit leaner and you'd make local applications with something document-oriented for GUI looking at a local service. It's just a decent bit of structure to make application design easier. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.
But, ahem, when by "webapp" we mean that we have a browser fulfilling the role of an operating system, and there's one company making it, then something is wrong.
- I heard that voyager is a website under the hood

Its about time an open standard happened for mobile OSes.

That's what Android was and they keep trying to undo that any way they can
- I disagree. Google has always been a thinly veiled Microsoft. A wolf in sheeps clothing. They embrace, extend, extinguish. It's the same thing.
- Makes me curious if they think their monopoly or whatever they were called cases making them split their browser are going to go though. If you are going to have to sell parts of the company, now would be the time to hammer home any last minute bad things that would make the companies more profitable. Shows higher income for the sale, and gets it out of the way so the new purchaser doesn't look like the ones who did it, but rather the ones who will make announcements on how they will review things to make them better for the user base.
  Doesn't mean they'll follow through on them, but it takes the evil and sticks it with the old owners.
We need open bootloader and drivers for phones to make any real progress on this. This is what's holding back all initiatives.
- and many phone manfacterers, issuers(non google, samsung, or IOs) IS CONSIDERING locking down thier phones.
- I wonder if the generic tablets with made up Asian sounding names that you see on the big marketplaces could work? They could have slightly larger or smaller screens if they're cheaper than current phone screens, and could have Linux with something like Signal on them for calling.
  They'd probably be lower quality to begin with, but could potentially get better if people start to buy them. They seem to have generic hardware, so might be able to offer the drivers and unlockable bootloaders too :)
the best outcome for the short term would be to forcibly take away android from google and give it to an independent foundation. as I heard antitrust proceedings in the usa were heading that way a few months ago
- So basically remove Google integration from AOSP?
- not with trump around.
- Such things are solvable with a bribe in the USA.

I don't know about anyone else, but I got into computers at a young age because it gave me a sense of control over something. I didn't understand everything, but I could do a lot of trial and error, read things and experiment, build cool things, and I shared a sense of community with some random internet strangers based on that knowledge.

In a world where we are so powerless in so many other ways, why did we insist on bringing that power dynamic into the new bright tech sphere? Why did we have to do that? (N.B. this is rhetorical questioning).

In the new Alien Earth TV show, 5 corporations basically run everything.. unfortunately I suspect thats where we are headed as a species.
- My university actually teaches about the "Meger Endgame theory" (yes, my professor had fun with that one), which states that industries will consolidate until 2-3 global market leaders dominate. So uhh, it's not just you. Idk if that's good or bad news for you haha
There are at least two generations of us who are disappointed at the contrast between tech's possibilities as envisioned decades ago and the corporate surveillance crap we have to put up with today.
- The thing that really gets to me is how we've gone from "Here, let us sell you a computer that you can push to its limits however you see fit" to "We will sell you a device and ensure you use that device within a given sphere of acceptability".
  I own this phone/computer/tablet/console/whatever, so why the fuck do I have to adhere to their rules? Rules they've changed since I bought the device, of course.
Sadly the majority of normal people don't want control. They just want it to do some trivial task without any fuss at any cost.
- they want IPHONES , macs, easy to use, not too complicated.

Year of the Linux phone, I guess.

God, I wish.

chrome is at thier limits, since people can just use a different browser/

they just want to confirm a malicious actor didn’t develop it

So Newpipe, SmartTube, Nintendo emulators...

Clones of opensource apps bundled with ads that violates license is OK, but restricting everyone to build and test apps from source so it can test new features and report any issues is too risky for the user

Can someone just do the needful?

just dont update your phone problem solved

We still need security updates.
This is likely via silent updates of Google's Play Services.
- Or forced updates

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, but I literally have no idea in which community this question goes.

I just got Samsung Galaxy A16, and then I learn just how controlling Google/Android is becoming. Research says I SHOULD be able to deGoogle and flash a ~~linux OS~~ custom Android ROM

My question is, as a beginner, which one should I go for? does it have any issues I need to look out for?

Note: Edited for clarity.

You cannot do so on Samsung devices. They have disabled the ability to unlock the bootloader on their devices and therefore you cannot install custom operating systems on them anymore.
If you want to install custom software like that, you always have to do your research beforehand and choose a device that will allow you to do so.
- probably will be an older model that isnt sold anymore by samsung.
- Since when is this the case?
You should return your Samsung for a refund and then start over with a device from a company that's less abusive.
- Not possible in Third World Countries :(
Are you sure you're not thinking of custom Android ROMs like LineageOS or /e/OS?
Because there are ROMs like Ubuntu Touch, but they're less developed than the other Android ROMs.
For reference, ive tried /e/OS, LineageOS and DivestOS (RIP).
So far I felt like /e/OS was the most polished.
- Your right. Thats what I meant. Ill edit the comment.

I mean… it's hilarious that people still use Chrome when it has been a known back actor for years and years. Firefox is an excellent option and the more people that use it, the more it encourages companies to keep supporting open web standards.

Likewise, if you set an iPhone to use Advanced Data Protection, it's probably quite a bit more secure from intrusion than a similar Android phone. (And definitely more secure from subpoena.)

i abandoned it ever since they say they slow down incognito mode, and prevent the liberal use of adblockers, or extensions.
Likewise, if you set an iPhone to use Advanced Data Protection.
You can pretend your iPhone isn't owned by a corporation that just swore fealty to the current regime, but until its running a custom ROM it isn't fucking yours.
Only phone that comes your own from factory I'd maybe the pinephone. Otherwise, get a pixel, rip out the factory OS install, and throw Graphen OS on it.
Both Android AND iOS have taken code from Graphene and used it to secure their codebases. Its probably one of, if not the most secure OS available to the average person today.

Librem profits +++$$$ It may be the end for u if u use a mobile for games.. If not - Just buy some open-source phone like Librem or ~~PinePhone~~, they also have Linux available:)

Literally do not
- Do not what?

People voted for this with their wallets.

As an iPhone guy, I know we already have it like that, and our keyboard has always sucked (and none of the third party keyboards help, they all suck compared to Gboard on Android), but while we dread the day that Apple becomes a data broker like Google... that day is not here yet.

I have bad news for you: they already sell your information to advertisers.
But the threat of Apple turning on its customers isn't limited to China. While the company has been unwilling to spy on its users on behalf of the US government, it's proven more than willing to compromise its worldwide users' privacy to pad its own profits. Remember when Apple let its users opt out of Facebook surveillance with one click? At the very same time, Apple was spinning up its own commercial surveillance program, spying on Ios customers, gathering the very same data as Facebook, and for the very same purpose: to target ads. When it came to its own surveillance, Apple completely ignored its customers' explicit refusal to consent to spying, spied on them anyway, and lied about it.
https://pluralistic.net/2024/03/22/reality-distortion-field/#three-trillion-here-three-trillion-there-pretty-soon-youre-talking-real-money