10 lessons for stronger movements
10 lessons for stronger movements
remember...
158 comments
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Whoever coined the phrase "it's not my job to educate you" is top of my rogues gallery. If you want democracy to succeed, it is literally your job to educate everyone you can about the things you are passionate about and the changes you wish to see. I get where it came from, I understand the feeling, but it's the worst possible phrase in the context of trying to make a political change.
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“It’s not my job to educate you” led to Prager University
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It really didn't. Maybe 10 people said it because they were being harassed by concern trolls, while the rest of us continued to engage in conversation with people who seemed like they might genuinely be confused.
Like literally just do a web search for your question and you will be on better footing when you ask it.
Like I felt offended the first time I heard "my culture is not a costume" but I actually did some reading / thinking before I started bothering people with questions like what??? or even banditos?? or what about mummies?
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I feel like a lot of progressive vocabulary words get used outside the contexts where they apply.
"It's not my job to educate you" is a fair and valid thing to say when someone demands you defend the validity of your identity while you're just trying to live your life. It's unreasonable to expect every trans person to explain the history and complexity of gender to every chud who gives them shit.
It is, however, the opposite of activism and super unhelpful for an activist to say while ostensibly trying to build a movement.
Similarly, "mansplaining" is not a blanket term for any man explaining anything, listening to a friend vent is not "emotional labor", and participating in cultures other than the one you grew up in is not "cultural appropriation". All real terms that point at real problems, all sometimes used outside the contexts in which they are helpful.
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Yeah I mean I can understand not everyone wants to be an educator, especially of more ignorant people but when people say this I do wonder why they are even talking. I usually speak to people because I am interested in learning from them or because they’re interested in learning from me. This is the purpose of human communication. If you aren’t interested then the obvious solution is to stay silent.
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When out distributing political flyers people will often come up to me pretending to want a conversation and learn something about my/our points, but just talk over me all the time. Their purpose is not to listen, or to learn, or to question, but just to feel like they matter.
Had a guy recently tell me about how he is a mechanic and that he did his own study where he found out that combustion engines do not, in fact, let out any CO2. He started it all with "give me 3 reasons to vote for you" to put me on the spot, then immediately was like "ok, I have 3 not to do it."
There is no conversation with people like that, I've tried it often. Now I just wish them a nice day and go away as it's not my job to waste time trying go educate them talking against an idiot wall.
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I first started seeing this on reddit (who knows where it actually came from though) which I believe schools its users to want to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING for attention and engagement. I agreed with or rather understood its meaning at one point but this phrase along with has "let me Google that for you" has fostered an abysmal internet culture. I think a much more servicable and sympathetic version of what this phrase was once trying to say, when said in good faith, should be "its not my responsibility to engage with this post right now", which isn't spoken aloud but is applicable to everyone online, and which I find myself thinking more and more when a comment makes me groan. The problem is how driven we all are to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING for attention amd engagement. I think it was a valuable realization at the time that felt so good to fire off uncritically on Twitter that people really hurt themselves, others, and the internet's culture when they did.
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You need to educate the right people at the right times, more than anything. I swear both this original message and most of the replies to it, like this one, speak of wild levels of inexperience in how to socialize and make people unite with you.
If you can choose between spending your energy addressing the stupid, ill-informed ideas posted by liberal Americans on Facebook or Reddit and withstanding a little public trolling, or spending your energy "educating" a vocal, prominent leftist who makes content about something they're doing wrong or some word they're misusing or some marginalized group they might be offending, can you guess what's going to help the cause more?
(The really sad part here is that some people are reading this trying to weigh both options.)
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It's not exactly the sentiment I have a problem with. There are definitely people who aren't worth engaging with and there's a time to walk away, as someone else in this thread pointed out they do. Responding in a kind of snarky, condescending tone rather than just walking away does not help you.
Think about an online thread where this happens: Someone is making an argument, and a troll appears. They engage for a bit, but realize they aren't going to make any progress. Walking away let's the thread die, and people who stumble upon it in the future will likely recognize the troll for what they are and consider the argument. Responding with condescension instead makes the person appear to only be arguing for self-aggrandizement rather than to actually help or improve anything, and it can poison the argument they made before. It plays right into the troll's hands.
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I'd be more likely to listen if this weren't next to an AI Gen otter
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Another sepia toned AI comic.
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yeah, it just cheapens the message heavily
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Imperfect Allies Aren't Enemies
- Critique to build, not tear down
- Organize, don't just argue
- Movements win, not individuals
- Perfection is the enemy of progress
- Ego kills movements
- Plan for the long game
- Meet people where they are
- Power doesn't care about feelings
- Division is a weapon used by elites, don't play along
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Thank you for annotating the post. Bumping engagement with my comment.
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However, you have to be careful that your movement doesn't get infiltrated, because that will hurt your movement. You have to be careful who you are walking with, and what their end goals are.
Don't protest for a better health care system with people that are antiscientific. Don't protest for a free Palestine together with antisemitic people. Do not let them blur your message.
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That sounds like something an enemy would say, right before they disagree with my objectively correct opinion about some minor thing and reveal their true nature.
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I feel personally attacked by your vague statement and therefore see you as an enemy for life
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the importance of that relatively minor thing also matters though, we can't just purity test everybody for everything, even if it's objectively correct, not all of it matters.
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This is 100% something a few people here on Lemmy need to see.
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You mean Lemmy, the website that has the broad and diverse userbase who primarily lean far-left to even-further-left? Everyone is here exactly so they can fight with people who aren't on the right and can be debated with or attacked without a frustrating, pointless argument with someone who can't even read.
Nobody here is going to read this as anything other than "You need to go after the REAL disguised nazis in your midst!" Everyone is here to escape having to fight orcs, so people here fight each other.
edit: keep downvoting.... or if you rather spend your energy on something educational to yourself, challenge yourself to find a single contentious thread or post here that isn't niche groups of leftists thought-clashing with each other about who's a better leftist. I'm not saying you're all bad, I'm saying you're all making a lot of mistakes which is why we get trounced constantly and we now have a fucking dictator undoing democracy. We are not victims here, we are failures. Get better. I know it sucks to hear, but if you feel called out, you're definitely the target and I hope you feel great levels of shame and accountability.
I have never been more disgusted with my own side as I have in the last few years, and you're still the best bet in town, if you could just get your fucking emotions under control.
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Its something people should have seen and accepted on or before November 5th.
Now I kind of just want to see the anti-electoralists suffer. Even if it means I suffer.
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Like the Muslim voters in Michigan that voted for Trump because they didn't like Harris' support of Israel and then immediately had ICE breathing down their necks
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This is true, but it's a good reminder that most people don't act like this meme. We should remember that minorities don't owe us their vote, and we should stand up for them
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As a transwoman I'm suddenly used to abuse from false allies who see me as an "Guaranteed Vote"
They're not wrong, but only because it's a two-party system and a true enemy is worse than a false friend.
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Yes, this is the attitude they are referring to.
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Exactly. If you don't want to be deported, you're going to have to be okay with genociding some folks.
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Or they could have voted for Harris and not had to deal with mass deportations and then tried to stop the genocidal acts. Instead they voted to continue the genocidal acts AND get deported. If the problem persists either way, why vote to fuck yourself twice?
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Right? Like, if someone's promising Free Grog and Good Times, they're probably LeChuck in disguise.
Yes, I made an Escape From Monkey Island reference.
First time I played that game, I felt stupid for not realizing the guy named "Charles L. Charles" with the same voice actor as LeChuck, was in fact, LeChuck.
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WhY Do YoU SuPpOrT GeNoCiDe?
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It's an unfortunate but necessary genocide
Edit: I don't support it!! But at this point it's pretty clear it's necessary, no? As liberals we need to be honest with ourselves at least.
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i guess you need to spell out for me exactly how wiping out an entire culture of innocent human beings in cold blood is "necessary"
idk if you're just trolling for attention but saying shit like that and calling it "unfortunate"... dude wtf
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This comment was reported. It does not violate our rules. Downvotes are appropriate here, convincing arguments even more so. Carry on.
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I'll bite. What do we as liberals get out of this genocide? Are you gonna say our stock in Lockheed will go up? Because not all of us liberals have stock in Lockheed.
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Leftist broadly have gotten used to attacking their own side because they're not the angry, mindless orcs that the right nurtures, and thus it's simply easier to police your own side and win arguments against other people with minds than try to butt heads against orcs who don't care and have no interest in thoughtful conversation.
It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
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It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
that's great, but does it actually accomplish anything? That's what really matters, it doesn't matter if you run some weirdo out of town because he moderately disagrees with you, if he just goes to the next town over, where more people are waiting for him...
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looks around the thread
I don't know why you felt the need to make a message like this, OP. We're all fully united and never quibble over inconsequential shit.
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In this essay, I will outline how your post actually SUPPORTS the patriarchy…
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FOUND THE NAZI
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Also, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Never forget that even though we knew that Stalin was a vicious mass murderer of his own people, we allied with him to defeat Hitler, and it is highly unlikely that we could have done it without out them, or at least it would have taken us far longer, and cost many more lives.
We turned on each other the moment the war was over, but at least we could agree to put aside our differences for the time being.
It is likely that when it comes time to finally put down the rabid dog named MAGA once and for all, it is going to require allying with the Traditional GOP. I despise them with everything I have, and will want accountability when this is over, but if they are willing to assist us in purging MAGA from society, we are going to have to hold our noses and accept their help.
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It is likely that when it comes time to finally put down the rabid dog named MAGA once and for all, it is going to require allying with the Traditional GOP.
Kamala tried that, it lead to Leftists not voting for Kamala Harris because they no longer saw a difference between her and Trump, and Rightists didn't vote for Kamala Harris because even the "Never-Trumper" faction of the party gets in line behind whoever the GOP tells them to. Because Republicans have something Democrats will never have, unquestionable brand loyalty.
MAGA will be not be defeated by cooperating with Conservatives who fear that they "Must defeat Trump to save the party", this is because Conservatives do not have an ideology, they have a tribe, and their tribe must always win or their Gods will hold them accountable.
If Conservatives turn against MAGA, it will be because they've been directly targeted by MAGA and are looking for a way out, and by the time that happens it'll already be too late. "No one left to speak for me" as the poem goes.
That said, the Right Wing portion of the Supreme Court is turning against Trump for this exact reason, they realize that if they don't he will just get rid of the Supreme Court and rule directly.
If "The TRUE Republicans" wanted to work with us to destroy Trumpism, I'd gladly accept their help, but they will NEVER work against the tribe.
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Personally, I think Free America and the Allies would be teaming up with the Mexican Cartels. If anyone can terrorize the Trump Regime, it would be them. IMO, it wouldn't be surprising if Mexico and the Allies promise to give away Texas to the Cartels as a spoil of war.
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There is no substantive difference between "MAGA" and the traditional GOP.
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Sadly, I keep trying to explain this to tankies, but they insisted NOT voting for Kamala because she wasn't going to use the Dragon Balls to bring back every Palestinian killed by Israel was a power move...
Anyway, that's how Donald Trump got re-elected
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Amazing that you think this post is promoting punching leftwards in support of electionism
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You're right. We liberals saw that Kamala and Biden did only the bare minimum genocide necessary. It's better than the extreme amounts of genocide trump is doing. Tankies often miss this point.
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sighs
The point isn't that there's a magical "Correct Amount" of genocide that is acceptable.
The point is that there is no magical solution that saves Palestine, there was however an option that made an already horrible scenario even worse, and that's the option we took in large part thanks to people who thought not voting would be good for anyone's health.
Kamala may not have cared about the lives she was helping snuff out under Biden's watchful eye, but at least she wasn't outright planning to build a fucking resort atop the mass graves. (Trump Gaza ring any bells to you?)
By the way, I'm a transwoman, I'm seeing ciswomen get awarded for "Standing up" against my kind, as my existence is being publically reframed as an affront to women's rights in what I can only imagine is the greatest dream TERF-kind ever had.
This wouldn't be happening under Kamala.
There are already states planning to illegalize "Gender Identity Fraud" in attempt to CRIMINALIZE MY VERY EXISTENCE
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Yep, it's sad, but the
JewsPalestinians have to be eliminated for the good of theReichRepublic. -
"We liberals".
Yeah right. Troll harder.
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Dear 50501 folks,
Every so often I check my messages at Facebook and noted there’s a big 50501 group there… any chance you could get that group to start educating their Facebook members that supporting Facebook means supporting the coup and fascism?
Just a thought, Wwe
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Using Facebook to attract disgruntled hostiles who are potentially ripe for recruitment, or those who are politically agnostic and getting angry at what is happening to them, and poisoning one of their primary propganda mouthpieces, are all important missions.
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Breaking through to them is something I have tried to do for years. I’ve stumbled up on this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KqzL0M2QzUTCdTFzcA1sRkfbNdCoaL7Xn4n4ilpwi8/edit?usp=drivesdk
Comments if you have them.
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AI cancer
Also Neoliberals are controlled opposition who have been shrugging their shoulders for 50 years, they are complicit or impotent.
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The more i read "neoliberal" in political movement discussions, the more i get the feeling its the new "slap this label on anything you dont fully agree with to disqualify them imedietly"-label
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Unsure how this is supposed to help my bowels but thanks for sharing anyway! /j
On a serious note, yeah, this has been tricky for me to learn and internalise. Especially when the topics are close to home.
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ITT: A demonstration of the precise behavior OP is trying to warn against.
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yeah. There's a difference between (for example) a transphobe screaming at you, and someone who doesn't fully understand all the terms but supports you being yourself. People in the comments are thinking it's more of the former than the ladder.
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Downvoted. This is how you get tankies in your movement. This is why they consistently show up to every fucking protest like they're welcome there. If we work with authoritarians to get rid of authoritarians, what's the point?
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Huh, looks like this account got hijacked; it used to be a "tankie", then it went dark for a month and is now back doing literally nothing except ranting about tankies.
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Thats why tankies are quickly gaining control of every left movement. A left movement sadly always either gets taken over by tankies and then no one wants to do anything with them, respectfully, or they get "tamed" and turn into "social democrats" like the german SPD that holds left values only in writing but not in action
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Perfection is the enemy of progress
I keep hearing people say this meaning "We need to let Republicans kill trans people". It seems to be a thought terminating cliche to pull out against anyone further left than the speaker.
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As a trans person, that absolutely isn't how I or other leftists in the spaces I'm in use this phrase. It means to avoid letting disagreement over method or end goal distract from a common cause. Just because a candidate doesn't run for my specific brand of leftism doesn't mean I won't support them over a neoliberal opponent.
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Any chance having source of this ? Thanks <3
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It’s an AI slop hallucination. The source is thousands of hours of stolen labor.
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"Imperfect Aliens" ok so only a "little" veiled racism is okay? Like in the good old days I guess.
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Allies = Aliens???
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I'd read again just to double check.
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🤦
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Ok, but why an otter?
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They’re fuckin rad.
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Right? Why NOT an otter?
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More fiber? What kind of movements are we talking about?
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Wilco
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Smart.
Smart smart smart.
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Any chance having source of this ? Thanks <3
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I am unsure whether this is AI generated or not. Checking the crosspost to !buyeuropean@feddit.uk confirmed that other people also thought this may be AI generated.
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you got'er otter
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power doesn't care about feelings
Does this mean that power has to be handled with care because it threatens feelings
or
does it mean that it's ok to ignore feelings when it is possible to increase power?
158 comments
Wish we wouldnt use AI
Perfection is the enemy of progress. Way to derail <3
This is like talking about awareness and then driving away in a Tesla. The people who are feasting upon our institutions made AI. The same people we are protesting that infested this regime.
It was a critique, not a tear down.
There are always the snobs that prefer nobody else be doing shit either so they can feel even more superior.
Treating criticism like an attack is the enemy of progress, and ironically more perfectionist than being able to acknowledge flaws in your messaging too.
yeah the identical styles get old real fast
Its also the weapon of the enemy.
"Hey look, it's Steve! ...oh wait."
It’s distasteful, but a useful weapon. We need ways to create content that is good enough and really fast to make. A grassroots movement doesn’t have the funds to pay marketing teams to do our work for us.
What did people do before AI? It wasn't that long ago.
Where’s AI? Is the whole image AI or just the art?
The whole image.
Is this critiquing to build or tear down?
Critique. This wouldnt have been hard to make in a presentable way without AI. I get it, I'm just saying now is the time to burn all bridges. Change is coming either way.