I don't even know why this shit is televised. I note the meeting with Putin wasn't.
Does Trump think this is his new TV show?
just look at the room's configuration and you can immediately tell that the goal was to literally corner Zelenskyy and hammer him until he loses his cool and lashes out. It really impresses as Vance orchestrated the whole thing, but he hasn't thought about that someone fighting putin, a room full of spongy suits might not be scary enough.
It's because the shouting was planned.
I assume they wanted to make Zelensky seem desperate and unhinged. But this backfired, since Zelensky remained calm throughout, but Trump and Vance flipped out when Zelensky pointed out that the distance alone won't protect Americans from the fallout of further Russian aggression. And most EU leaders professed their support for Ukraine after the meeting. So, basically, the shouting was planned, it was just that they planned for Zelensky to do the shouting.
Trump thinks his entire life is a TV show.
He thinks he is important enough to have a life TV show
Zelensky is surprisingly snappy. After getting used to the average politician he really surprised me. But yeah this response to the "two weeks" was gold.
Well Comedian probably handle hecklers
I just picture a conversation between a mother and son, many years ago, going "but you could do more!"
Zelenskyy is a fucking gigachad for saying that in the Oval Office. Fucking legend
I think Zelensky was being quite mild only because he is in a very difficult position and he actually cares more about his country than himself unlike this orangegutan. So he kind of allowed Trump to get away with his dihheriacious comments. Had he been free of this restraint he would have easily buried him to the ground.
(I can probably take an educated guess, but) context?
While talking to zelensky, trump said something like the war in Ukraine could have ended in three days, and zelensky said 'am I crazy or are you quoting Putin right now?'
I'm unwilling to listen to that embarrassing shit show again so that's as accurate as I can get.
I forced myself through it, wretching every time that orange asshole opened his mouth to say something fucking stupid.
I hate him so goddamn much
embarrassing shit show
^^ That is a excellent recap of the ambush "meeting".
Trump repeating a Russian talking points to Zelensky while obliterating the relationship.
Also Trump was wrong as usual. US support for Ukraine was pretty minimal at the start of the war. Nobody expected them to last long, why supply them with heavy weaponry if it would fall into Russia's hands in a few weeks? Lesson learned from US support of Afghanistan in the 80's and why the Afghanistan army didn't receive them in the 2000s. Only after Ukraine proved themselves did the West ramp up support.
This is just leaking into my bubble and I don't know how much of it I can take but as for this part - I'm here for it.
I get what you're saying, survival matters more than anything to Ukraine. But he represents Ukraine on the world stage and that means what he says and does matters. If he does what you suggested, then he likes corrupt, which is already a perception that he is fighting.
He might also have seen that he had a chance to call out the bullshit that was being spread in the meeting as Macron and Starmer did
Can I get a tl;dr
Trump and Vance verbally attacked Selensky on live TV saying stuff like he doesnt want ceasefire/peace and should be more thankful to the US
Selensky said he was thankful for all the aid just 5min before and that he would need some sort of security guarantee so that Putin doesnt just break the ceasefire.
They (Trump and Vance) were angry and kinda aborted the whole deal they were supposed to sign.
Hmm? I saw the debacle in the oval office. But what did Putin tell Donni or Selesnkyj?
Orange man was like: you don't hold the cards. Without us, you will lose this war in three weeks.
Zelenskyy: three days, yeah I heard it from Putin
Sorry....Donni or who?
I'm gonna be dog piled on for this but Zelensky should have just kissed the ring and moved on, he never had to even accept any deal at that time. But he shot himself in the foot with this administration and now has to play catch up.
Nb4 "trump evil, pj Vance is turd"
Yea I get it. The usual bot response. But think critically. This dudes country is being crushed and America, regardless of administration, is helping them. Zelensky came to the oval office for help but let his pride dictate policy. Rather than play to Trump's tiny dick syndrome and get what he wanted.
Trump is demanding mineral resources as well as forfeiture of the 20% of Ukrainian territory currently occupied by Russia in exchange for enacting some unspecified plan to get Russia to stop invading Ukraine.
Zelenski said sure, but he needs a security guarantee that if Russia continues invading Ukrainian territory the US will help defend Ukraine. This very reasonable
Trump refuses to offer that guarantee and offers no details on any plan to keep Putin from invading further.
From Zelenski's perspective this is the US stealing his country's mineral wealth for a Trump handshake, which is completely meaningless. It's a bad deal and is unlikely to help the people of Ukraine
Can I ask a question in good faith? If Zelensky agrees to this deal without any "securities" how many Americans, and how much of the Army Core of Engineers are deployed to Ukraine to setup infrastructure?
What does a "mineral resource" look like? Is that a parcel? Or an operation? Who owns it?
And how is this not creating a defacto military base in Ukraine, Unspoken. And providing Ukraine with the American seal of security?
You're assuming Trump was arguing in good faith. The mineral deal wasn't ironclad, it was basically "We have minerals, possibly/likey good ones, you get dibs to help us dig them up." Which is, depending on the details, a fine deal. Also, it's got ambiguity.
So, given that that's a future problem and has lots to sort out, it isn't the worst deal to sign.
So! As you said, Zelensky should "kiss the ring", well he was there to do that. That was a deal on the table. Zelensky was willing to make that deal.
Maybe I'm wrong and Zelensky and Trump sycophants never would have made a fair deal. Fine. I'm willing to accept that.
But we didn't get that far. We got as far as Zelensky showing up in good faith, and Trump just shitting over everything.
This wasn't going to work no matter how many rings you kissed because Trump isn't a reasonable person, willing to actually fix things.
I watched the whole thing and I don't even think Trump or Zelensky was the one to shit the bed. Vance opened his stupidouth and started a Chihuahua small dick energy environment. And Trump stepped in because he had to back up his own.
I do agree with you tho.
Zelensky could have gotten on his knees and the outcome would have been the same. It was a setup, they where going to gaslight him either way. At least he kept his dignity.
But America isn't helping Ukraine anymore and trump isnt offering to do so now what belp did he turn down. Be specific.
Trump just tried to extort them on TV dickhead.
Take your own advice and "think critically".
I can't help but disagree. The US is not the only supplier of weapons, and we are rapidly losing allies. Zelensky probably galvanized his citizens by continuing to exhibit strong but humble leadership, which matters a lot in war.
I can't imagine putting my life on the line for a goofball like Trump
I think Ukraine does have a reasonably strong position for negotiating. Trump could lose out on a sweetheart deal and Zelensky could partner with other countries instead. The talk of WWII is bullshit. If Trump really cared about a world war, he would stop trying to annex other countries.
Crushed? Are we watching the same reports? Russia is full of little bitches that can't kill a sick puppy.
Considering that land is being taken. People are dying. And the infrastructure is deteriorating. Yes. Crushed. Regardless of winning or losing, they're fighting this war in their country. It's crushing their western side of their land.
