Underrated benefit of lemmy is like minded people will tend to join the same instances and if I don't want to interact with those groups I can just filter the whole instance.
Underrated benefit of lemmy is like minded people will tend to join the same instances and if I don't want to interact with those groups I can just filter the whole instance.
A lot less annoying then endlessly filtering content by community and user
The downside of that is the filter bubble or echo chamber effect. Question is whether Lemmy should be a fun experience for you or something to broaden your horizons a little
Bruh. It's not an echo chamber to filter out literal Nazis and other stuff. Ain't nobody changing their mind from "spirited" internet debate and I don't need their garbage in my day.
I mean, personally I am not here to discuss politics or get the news. I'm here for memes and nerding out. All that real-world shit doesn't vibe. I wanna laugh.
Exactly. I want to be able to mention the fashion lizard, the bisexual twink doctor, and his husband the suffering Irishman... And for people to understand who I'm talking about.
I agree, the filters here are great. I don't mind the real world stuff but I filter your instance because I don't want to see furry porn.
(Not trying to be snarky, your kinks are not any of my business, hence the filter. My comment is meant to be genuine.)
I feel like the term echo chamber gets thrown around a lot. Imo an echo chamber has to be highly specific. I wouldn't classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber for example. I would also argue against to idea of having to be weary of creating your own echo chamber online. Use social media how you like, the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
I wouldn't classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber
Simply being something isn't an echo chamber, you have to have a thought or opinion being shared by the group. If every person you interact with only speaks one language, and they all share that one language is the best method of communication, that's an echo chamber.
Use social media how you like
I agree. Although it is useful to be aware of your own biases.
the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Assuming you don't mean literally "touch grass", the solution is seeking out opinions/thoughts outside of your echo chamber. That doesn't necessarily mean forcing yourself to interact with terrible communities, but being aware and understanding (but not agreeing with) them.
Although I again refer to using social media how you like is fine. No one needs to be exposed to certain communities. It's not wrong or lazy or bad to ignore certain communities or viewpoints, especially toxic ones. However you should be aware that they exist and it can be helpful, if you choose, to understand where they come from.
As a harmless example, if you don't like brussel sprouts and none of your friends like brussel sprouts, it may benefit you to try brussel sprouts or to seek out and talk to or read about people who like brussel sprouts. You can still at the end of the day dislike brussel sprouts. You don't have to change your opinion. But now your opinion is more well rounded.
Like most things, there's a sliding scale. I block two instances (in my client) because of the high noise-to-signal ratio, and a few individuals who I find particularly obnoxious. I've never blocked anyone who I thought was trying to have a good-faith argument with me, regardless of their position. But I also don't feel obligated to stand and listen to the MAGA dipshit shouting obscenities at minorities, either. Is it an echo chamber? No more than me not watching Fox "News".
Although, Lemmy leans strongly left, and the instances are tankie ones; there isn't a lot of right-leaning posting IME. I think this is a particularly difficult time for reasonable conservatives because of how their party has been co-opted by fascists. The instances I'm on doesn't do a lot of defederating, but I know just by virtue of being on Lemmy, I'm getting a left bias.
As if the default Lemmy experience isn't a massive filter bubble in itself. I doubt hardly anyone here would want to federate with Twitter and Truth Social even though that would make your feed, in fact, less of an echo chamber. Hell, a huge number of inctances don't even federate with Hexbear, Lemmygrad or Threads.
I think it's pretty much impossible to fully get out of filter bubbles, but the only way to really get every view on everything is to be part of everything mainstream AND everything more underground. Personally, I don't feel the need to associate with any other social media. I think toxicity differs from being exposed to a different point of view.
Reddit has had the problem for years that if you tried to make a point that slightly differed from the hive mind's opinion, however eloquently you would put it, everyone would just pile on with their 'akshually' mentality and not even be open to any other viewpoint than their own.
And that's toxicity without even mentioning folks that would just say 'no' followed by hateful language.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff. And OP is right, if a certain instance shows its users can't behave or have such different views than your own, you can just make them go away and enjoy the rest of Lemmy.
I just hope those users don't defederate from the rest of us so at some point they will have a more nuanced view of things.
Eating poisoned shit isn't broadening your horizons.
I'm reminded of a quote that goes something like this:
I've been thinking about the free exchange of ideas recently and come to the conclusion that it isn't an open market - it's a potluck.
Everybody brings something to the table and you're free to pick and choose the things that you want to try, but you're not obligated to try everything. Just because Karen put a piece of shit on the table and calls it a sandwich doesn't mean that you have to take a bite to know that it's shit. Similarly, we are not obligated to take white supremacists and other extremists' ideas and seriously debate their value. They're shit and can and should be treated as such.
The beauty of a self-curated experience is that you're free to engage with the things that you want and can ignore the things that you don't want to deal with. The risk of people isolating themselves is simply a part of having the freedom to choose your own experiences, the same as the real world.
Personally, one of the reasons that I'm here is because I have no choice but to deal with right-wing extremism in my daily life, and I don't want to deal with it online as well. Reading news articles? That's fine, but I don't want to see chuds screaming about DEI or woke or whatever in the comments.
This reminds me of Innuendo Studios' latest offering (yes Ian Danskin is sharing some videos again!) Why Don't You Respond To Criticism?.
The existence of "echo chambers" is debated by scientists. It really doesn't matter who you hang around with, you're going to disagree with people.
The echo chamber is overstated: the moderating effect of political interest and diverse media.
Tweeting from left to right: Is online political communication more than an echo chamber?
Maybe the solution is to either not restrict yourself to one platform or to be aware of the bubble.
People talk about filter bubbles, but there's a nuance here: on Lemmy, you're not being served up whatever the platform owners think you should see from an opaque algorithm. You're going to, by default, see cesspool content. You have to choose to block it.
I was happy today when I made a post on an obscure community and some guy just passing by on the "new" feed left a comment.
Very true, count dongulus.
Doesn't this lead to potential echo chambers though. If I go and block all content I don't like, how can I have ideas that challenge my beliefs?
Not everything has to have an opposing perspective, where's the opposing community for knitting? Tearing?
Rip and tear, until it is done. And you can start knitting again.
Probably purling.
I wouldn't pull that thread if I were you.
Some people don't come to social media to have their beliefs challenged and that's okay.
The solution here, I believe, would be to not block them.
Personally I kind of don't want everybody to be like-minded, because that becomes an echo chamber. What I'm after on Lemmy is people willing to explore subjects objectively, without beating the bushes for enemies or competing for upvotes.
I think a bit the opposite: I'm really worried about the trend to give people only information they care about. I think it's essential to be able to have information about everything. Of course there will always be stuff you don't care about but having it automatically filtered out is dangerous in my opinion. In GAFA-powered social networks, you are only given pieces of information about your own opinion, you never have something that make you question yourself about your opinion. The power of independent and open media like Lemmy is to not rely on such biasing algorithms.
There's a nuance here that you're missing - self-curating your social media experience is vastly different from the algorithm hellhole that is the modern corporate social media landscape. You can filter out any dissenting opinions or facts, but you can in real life, too. And like in real life, it takes a lot of active effort to get to that point. Whereas the algorithm will do that for you without you even knowing it.
I'd say that self-curated social media is like going off to college or moving to a new city while the algorithm is like living in the town you grew up in. I grew up in a very liberal state, but there were about 3 non-white kids in my entire high school the year I graduated, and it wasn't until I was introduced to Tumblr in college in the late 2000s that I first heard words like "transgender." And Tumblr is the most self-curated social media that I've ever seen. Back then, you couldn't even follow hashtags - just people. So your front page was exclusively people that you followed and the posts that they reblogged from people that they followed.
Very interesting opinion, thanks for it.
Lemmy has a mod problem honestly. Legitimate options get censored while the echo chamber is promoted.
Underrated benefit of Lemmy is that it isn't infested with bots the way its larger counterpart is. Reddit has really turned to garbage.
Lower quantity of content here, but more authentic
On the other hand, learning to deal with people you dislike is a useful skill. If everyone segregates themselves into opposing factions there will never be any progress.
Of course, I've personally blocked about 600 people...
My reply test to see if you blocked me
You are not blocked, because you are beneath contempt.
[jk]
I have enough people I dislike and disagree with IRL, I will have all my opinions confirmed when I'm browsing online, thankyouverymuch. /s
I think it attracts a certain type of person to Lemmy in the first place; someone who would have probably used the original Reddit back in the day
Idk what this means but yeh
That explains the age demographic
There are some instances that lean in specific directions, but there are also several that are kind of just melting pots. For the most part I don't need to use blocks too frequently, but there are definitely some spaces/users that I find are too hostile that it gets in the way of their intended messaging. But then, that line is going to be different for everybody.
It is the opposite. People join an instance which does not agree with their point of view. They get banned. They move to a different instance.
Echo chamber galore.
Any system model that eventually encourages echo chamberism should not be in use, even if the intent is to change the system before echo chambers occur, by then it will be too entrenched to just change
But those echo chambers are a normal result of human interaction, from the friends you choose, to the events and bars/clubs you frequent, to the magazines and papers/websites you read.
Echo chambers will naturally occur as long as people can choose who to follow or read or otherwise consume or connect with.
The only system to prevent this would be to always force every flavor of everything to anybody, removing every way to filter or freedom to choose who to follow and what to hear/consume. And that sounds very dystopian and fascist to my ears.
I agree wholeheartedly
Fascist? Are you fucking kidding me? You're literally just describing newspapers, broadcast news, town criers, and literally all life pre-internet.
Filter bubbles occur because we have the ability to selectively choose to only hear news we like which is a new phenomena that is a result of the internet, because it is fundamentally a messaging system, not a broadcast system like virtually every news system throughout history.
You are just falling into the American trap that personal freedom is the ultimate good and should trump everything else, even if the systemic effects of it are bad.
Reddit / Lemmy are fundamentally not a good place to read the news and get informed because of the filter bubble effect. They're a good place to go have an in-depth discussion about an article, but if you actually want to be informed then you should use an RSS reader or something else that gives you a chronological feed, not one based on what's popular amongst people you already agree with.
> sees people exercising their freedom of association
> "yeah this thing sucks btw"
I don't think giving users the freedom to choose what they want or don't want to see encourages anything. Some of us are here for the memes or literally anything other than politics. Everytime a debate about defederating comes up, that fact is the first thing everyone forgets about
The memes community on Lemmy.ml is anything but non-political, pointing to how it is not so easy to completely separate those concepts.
Meanwhile I'm on a Dutch instance and look at all the bs...
You dumb dumb Dutchland isn't part of the Netherlands continent
You are the one with BS not me
I haven't thought about how that works.
If other instance users post on a problematic instance by accident or because there's a useful community, I wouldn't want those hidden.
Then again if it, preferably, only hides the users of the problematic instance, that doesn't really solve the core issue of bad actors being enabled in the fediverse 🤔
That's why we should use the federation features more often. You should choose an instance that federates with the instances you like. Blocking can be done on most mainstream platforms, we can defederate!
Still looking for instances that defedded with lemmy.ml...
https://lemmy.cafe/instances does
Single admin low population instance though, so as usual it might disappear overnight
In addition to lemmy.cafe and quokk.au and Tesseract on dubvee.org that have each defederated from it (though as Blaze mentioned they are all single-admin instances), iirc the apps Connect or Sync will let you block any custom instance you want (I don't have either, but from what people say?), or the Lemmy alternatives PieFed or Mbin likewise plus they have neat features that Lemmy lacks such as Categories of Communities.
I just sort of picked a server at random when I singed up. Turned out to be a cool place, but I am sure that is true for most instances.
I kinda did the same. Except I went for .ml and folks would call me a tankie for no other reason. Got kinda boring so I switched to another.
Other than the one we are all thinking of here, I can't say I really agree.
cough lemmy.ml cough cough hexbear cough
Help a noob out - it's reddit, right?