No Mercy

Fake news.

Both Windows and Linux have their respective SIGTERM and SIGKILL equivalents. And both usually try SIGTERM before resorting to SIGKILL. That's what systemd's dreaded "a stop job is running" is. It waits a minute or so for the SIGTERM to be honoured before SIGKILLing the offending process.

Also fake because zombie processes.

I once spent several angry hours researching zombie processes in a quest to kill them by any means necessary. Ended up rebooting, which was a sort of baby-with-the bath-water solution.

Zombie processes still infuriate me. While I'm not a Rust developer, nor do I particularly care about the language, I'm eagerly watching Redox OS, as it looks like the micro kernel OS with the best chance to make to it useful desktop status. A good micro kernel would address so so many of the worst aspects of Linux.
- Zombie processes are already dead. They aren't executing, the kernel is just keeping a reference to them so their parent process can check their return code (waitpid).
  
  All processes becomes zombies briefly after they exit, just usually their parents wait on them correctly. If their parents exit without waiting on the child, then the child gets reparented to init, which will wait on it. If the parent stays alive, but doesn't wait on the child, then it will remain zombied until the parent exits and triggers the reparenting.
  
  Its not really Linux's fault if processes don't clean up their children correctly, and I'm 99% sure you can zombie a child on redox given its a POSIX OS.
  
  Edit: https://gist.github.com/cameroncros/8ae3def101efc08be2cd69846d9dcc81 - Rust program to generate orphans.
- Zombie processes are hilarious. They are the unkillable package delivery person of the Linux system. They have some data that must be delivered before they can die. Before they are allowed to die.
  
  Sometimes just listening to them is all they want. (Strace or redirect their output anywhere.)
  
  Sometimes, the whole village has to burn. (Reboot)
- RedoxOS would likely never become feature complete enough to be a stable, useful and daily-drivable OS. It's currently a hobbyist OS that is mainly used as a testbed for OS programming in Rust.
  
  If the RedoxOs devs could port the Cosmic DE, they'd become one of the best Toy OS and maybe become used on some serious projects . This could give them enough funds to become a viable OS used by megacorps on infrastructures where security is critical and it may lead it to develop into a truly daily drivable OS.
- What does this have to do with Rust? Or redox, or micro kernels or Linux?
- I don't think a microkernel will help with zombies.
- Ok, how change of kernel would fix userspace program not reading return value? And if you just want to use microkernel, then use either HURD or whatever DragonflyBSD uses.
  
  But generally microkernels are not solution to problems most people claim they would solve, especially in post-meltdown era.
- nah, you can have micro-kernel features on linux, but you can't have monolithc kernel features on microkernel, there's zero arguments in favor of a micro kernel, except being a novel project
That’s what systemd’s dreaded “a stop job is running” is

The worst part of that is that you can't quickly login to check what it is (so maybe you can prevent it in the future?), or kill it anyway because it's likely to be something stupid and unimportant. And if it actually was important, well... it's gonna be shot in the head in a minute anyway, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it, so what's the point of delaying?
- so what's the point of delaying?
  
  In the best case the offending process actually does shut down cleanly before the time is up. Like, some databases like redis keep written data in memory for fast access before actually writing the data to disc. If you were to kill such a process before all the data is written you'd lose it.
  
  So, admins of servers like these might even opt to increase the timeout, depending on their configuration and disc speed.
Stop jobs are a systemdism and they're nice. I think the desktop environment kills its children on its own during reboot and it might not be as nice. Graphical browsers often complain about being killed after a reboot in GNOME.
- AFAIK running firefox in a terminal and pressing ^C (SIGINT) has kind of the same effect as logging out or poweroff in GNOME (SIGTERM, if you're using systemd). This gives the browser (or other processes with crash recovery) enough time to save all its data and exit gracefully for the crash recovery the next time they are run.
  
  Please correct me if I'm wrong
Windows gives you the option to kill on shutdown if the app is trying to delay the process. I think it's ideal.
BTW you can control systemd and how fast it chooses SIGKILL after sending SIGTERM. I don't know why people complain so much about it. It's really just there such that things on your computer end properly without any sort of data corruption or something bad going on after a reboot or the next time you turn on your computer.

SIGTERM is the graceful way tho? It nicely asks programs to please close and cleanup. Unlike SIGKILL, which bombs the shop and creates orphans.

And we give steam a fewilliseconds to comply, so IDK what they're complaing about...
- Please end your process. You have ten milliseconds to comply.
- ?
  
  You're supposed to close Steam via menu or systray. If you run it in cli, you see that it cleans then a whole bunch up for a few seconds.
- Steam is clunky... Exit -> Oh you want to exit? Let me launch a new window letting you know I'm shutting down and take about 20 seconds while I was sitting here idle before you asked to shutdown.
  
  See you tomorrow where I'll validate your games again. Just in case!

Almost every time I restart my Windows PC from an update, it sits on the "closing apps screen" or "restarting" screen then gives up completely and I have to force it to shut down/restart

And, just about every other time I restart with an update, it closes apps and then just fully shuts down after the update!

It's super graceful! 😭

"restarting" for 15 minutes. Then crashes. Now I have to reinstall updates and go through it all over again. I hate how crappy the windows update process has become.

Except for the immutable versions I have, Linux almost never needs to reboot after an update. Upgrades, yes, but not standard updates. And even after upgrades, it just works [(except for one of the immutable versions I have)].

I usually close all programs before shutting down / rebooting, anyway (a habit I picked up from Win95 days, where it would crash if programs prevented it from shutting down), so I don't really feel this SIGKILL issues.
- Linux almost never needs to reboot after an update
  
  Doesn't it often need a reboot to apply some updates?
  
  I rember reading something along those lines then I was researching why Fedora installs some updates after a reboot. Most
- As Microsoft adds ads in more places more and more, I consider moving over to Linux but I just have too many files and weird Windows only programs that I use that I can't
  
  I also haven't really found a desktop environment I really like yet, so I'm open to suggestions for dual booting!
- I was doing my project while system updated itself from sources. Шindows should take notes here.
  
  And I'm not even talking about CRIU, where you can save entire progtam state on disk, reboot and restore it back in the state before reboot.

Windows' might be complex, but it is NOT graceful. If you have notepad open with unsaved text, then shutdown will never shut down - but nothing on the screen will make this obvious to a non-technical person.

Unless there are security updates to install, then everything will be mercilessly killed
- Praise be Cortana and IE's reinstallation!
F’ing notepad every time.

SIGTERM is a graceful request to the application to terminate itself and despite their names kill and killall default to SIGTERM (also useful to send other signals to processes, like START, STOP and NOHUP).

kill -9 though...

"You should terminate yourself, NOW!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4

edit: also 17 FUCKING years ago... GD!
killall is deprecated, we use pkill now.

The number of times I have had the Windows shutdown process tell me “please close <some windows process that I never opened> before shutting down” is fucking annoying. Wipe your own ass, Windows.

Bonus points if that exact dialogue is the cause. Had that happen more than once. No idea how
The funniest one is when it tells you this but by the time you get back to close the ones that didn't close they've already closed on their own. Confused Travolta.gif

The image fails to load for me.

pkill -9 firefox

Firefox is becoming the villain.

EarlyOOM is your friend. Tweak it to save the most important stuff and kill irrelevant stuff first when low on memory.

Meanwhile I click that "shut down anyway" button immediately. Fuck you Outlook.

In windows open command prompt type

shutdown /f /s /t 0

Translation:
"Shutdown. Fucking shutdown, trash!"
Better yet, put this in a batch file set to run at start up. On your friends PC of course

echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger

I'm guessing that simulates alt-sysrq command inputs?
- Yes

"Remember: No PID"

Underrated comment

No Mercy

Where do you go, my lovely?

Haha. Popos gnome doesn't have this. You get a pop up and says 60s count down. Wish I knew what command that is. I usually have hotkey 'poweroff' and that ista kills everything and shuts down lol

Alt+print screen+i 😎

That should be a child.

Anti Commercial-AI license

Mercy is for the weak.