Can't win with some people
Can't win with some people
86 comments
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Just can't win with some people. And that's ok, life isn't about impressing everyone - anyone who tries gets exhausted real fast.
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If enough of us behave girly, it's no longer girly.
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I've had that discussion before.
Gender roles, and thus gender presentation, are cultural for the most part. Some are common enough to multiple cultures that it approaches being just human culture.
But even in western (us, canada, europe) cultures, there have been periods where the presentation of masculinity would be considered feminine in other eras. So gender roles & presentation aren't fixed in a given culture.
If I, regardless of what my genitals are, present as a man, then I am effectively the same as whatever a man is in my culture. If that also includes taking on the gender roles of "man", then that's another layer.
However, this also means that when enough men shift their presentation and roles, anyone holding to the previous roles and presentation are now "less" a man in the cultural sense. It really, truly is a majority rules situation, and the minority are what get relabeled (usually).
The more men that reject an arbitrary paradigm of masculinity, the more we shift to an open, loose definition of what is and isn't masculine, with the eventual possibility that gender becomes so loose in definition that masculine and feminine become irrelevant terms, if the labels also lose relevance to the majority. And I believe that if enough people reject fixed gender paradigms, the terms would inevitably cease to matter.
I mean, we've already started to add qualifiers. We have traditional gender roles as a specific thing as separate from current gender roles.
This isn't to deny that hormones and genetics will push people into behaviors that are linked to gender because they're mostly linked to sex. But even with those pressures, we usually have room how we express those behaviors.
It's why I always tell folks, particularly younger folks, to not worry much about labels. Be who you are, as long as who you are isn't a douche, and you'll eventually find the labels that feel right. And there's a good chance you'll end up shifting your self over time anyway, which is fine. As long as you don't fixate on labels as defining the person, the self, you can freely shift labels as the self shifts. It's when you pick a label and think that you have to fit it in all ways, forever, that you run into trouble.
So, fuck yeah. If you feel "girly", be girly. Enjoy that shit. Be your best self. It'll eventually work out :)
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Exactly. I think labels are useful as communication tools, but they’re an active hindrance to self exploration. One of the greatest things I ever did for myself was completely setting them aside when exploring my gender until I knew what I wanted. It was a lot easier to run off a checklist of options than to sort through a variety of labels, even when I fell solidly into some labels.
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Truly. Thanks for being a decent human being.
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Hey that's for real man
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It's often time better to not just argue with these asshats. Waste of your time and energy while achieving less than a dog barking at a tree.
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100% goes for the other side as well. There is zero arguing at any side, everybody just shuts down and becomes a fucking retard. Don't pretend like anything on either side makes sense.
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Ok but also you aren’t nonbinary just because you’re an effeminate man. They’re different things entirely
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You can't gatekeep being nonbinary. Not unless you're prepared to define it explicitly, which will exclude many people - and not everyone will agree with your definition either.
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Nothing is anything, did people forget that these are all completely nonsense words with no connection to reality? No matter how scientific and very legal very cool semantic concepts you come up with it won't change reality one fucking bit. Non binary.. Nobody gives a FUCK, it has no correlation with ANYTHING in the Universe, it's just another shit pseudophilosophical concept being shoved down everyone's throat like it's some kind of objective reality.
It's metaphysics, and "you people" (yes, YOU PEOPLE) suck at it.
The shit you find in your belly hole while navel gazing is not worth shit.
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Are you transphobic as well? I'm genuinely curious. Or does transgender count as "real" in your view because it does have a far more strict definition?
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Telling someone whose gender doesn't conform to the male/female binary view of gender that the term non-binary is a "shit pseudophilosophical concept" that "has no connection to reality" fucking sucks. Either you don't recognize gender outside of the binary, or you just think these people don't deserve a way to express and talk about their gender. Either way it's a garbage take.
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Homophobes are cute. Me and my homies only jerk off to homophobes. Just like those old WW2 vets that invented the gay leather scene. Except now the kink is to dress up as an Ultra-American instead of a German nazi. I got a 1776 shirt literally just to fuck with.
(One part humor, one part truth, one part bullshit. If my lame comedy makes anyone angry they aren't living the life they should be. Treat yo self.)
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As a leather woman I do want people to know how the community actually formed. Motorcycling was a socially acceptable hobby and served two purposes: it as a hobby has just always been useful for men dealing with ptsd who aren’t comfortable with therapy (it’s worse than therapy but it’s better than nothing and it’s not like 1948 Americans were ready to hear that John can’t process that he killed someone and that he fell in love with a soldier who died in his arms), and it served as a convenient excuse to get out of town into the middle of nowhere where nobody will see gay sadomasochism unless they came to see it.
It’s never been a parody of the right, but it has had parodies of what was expected of them. The Nazi fetishists were different folks usually. Though we did have people wearing parodies of us uniforms
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What makes a man, is it the power in his hands?
Is it his quest for glory?
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It's funny how it only seems to be a problem in on direction. Boyish women or 'tomboys' are applauded in a lot of circles.
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Historically less so. Even back in the 80s lots of girls i knew and thought of as tom boys. Where forced to dress and act girlie by there parents. Further back you go more limits there were.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Roosevelt_Longworth
"I can either run the country or I can attend to Alice, but I cannot possibly do both"
Chastised by some, loved by others, it depends a lot on the audience. I think overall though women have been given more a pass, pegged as 'willfull' or 'impetuous' where as with men it's treated as a flaw that they should be shunned for.
Think of the differing ways that daddy's girl and mamma's boy are perceived to get to what I mean.
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Then as a man, I choose to act like a girly-Man©. See? Has Man© and that symbol makes it official. That means I can do anything <'ronswanson meme.jpg'> Checkmate. Easy victory
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A real Girly-Man wears blue armor with white toilet seats painted on the shoulders. Rowboat.
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Reactionaries have no underlying principles, they just react, violently in some cases. If you guide them through their own cobbled-together set of values and show the contradictions, they get angry and start yelling, because to them, they are their own moral arbiter and a challenge to their status quo is an enemy.
Gender is a Social construct and getting upset at people for being outside the bimodal spectrum conservative society expects them to be is utterly pointless, stupid, and harmful.
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it's designed so that you can't win except by being and doing precisely what you're told. this is because it's designed by evil people and promoted by weak people.
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First half is a conservative argument (gender roles)
Second half is a liberal argument (abolish gender roles)
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I once asked myself what good gender roles ever do. I have yet to find a good answer. Almost everything about it comes down to making sure certain people are classed ahead of other people.
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Relevant user name 😂
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It's actually a Russian sponsored non issue to pit us against one another. Sadly the conservatives bought into it hardstyle because they smell money and power to be made from the controversy.
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Yeah conservatives need Russia to be transphobic /s
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What type of mental ginastic are they using? Lol
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🚫Girly ✅Childish
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86 comments
If "your man card can be revoked" then you understand that gender is performative and conditional.
You would think that, wouldn't you?
In fact words all those words are a bunch of gibberish and neither the world nor reality works like that. I can just question the vague and often circular premises of that argument and we're back to square zero.
Not against the sentiment, but you're never going to get anywhere with that pseudoacademic bullshit.
Edit: hahaha just keep proving my point. You're the same as them- dogmatic fanatics with no arguments that hold up for shit.
Cringe, you're not even a good anarchist.
Sooo what if a dude just decides to act like, dress like, and call themselves like a girl? Why would they not be allowed to do that? What about the laws of the universe takes away their agency to do that?
Is this the most terminally online possible way of saying "gender is a social construct and I'm a gender abolitionist"?
Which words are you struggling with?
I'm entirely for gender abolitionism, but you really need to find some better rhetoric. "Cope and seethe, your arguments are shit" won't work on most people
For some the optionality of it is less important than the notion that if it's performative, you can be bad at it and therefore make yourself an acceptable target for abuse, and besides that the idea that some roles can be restricted to only those with a certain set of physical characteristics is deeply ingrained in many, be that in terms gender, career, or what have you.