Sovereign citizen send in a fake coupon to pay their phone bill, T-Mobile doesn't think so, sovcit is digging themselves a deeper hole.
Man, who would have thought they don't take a drawing of a seven legged spider as payment?
God I love that page.
Damn new time waster funny site. I just read the interview question one and I am officially hooked.
Obviously Walter Bowers is the best pick since he can bridge the gap between Kevin and the rest of the team and help Kevin feel more included while away from his cabbages
Where’s the “that type of payment “? What was it?
It appears he is trying to pay his bill with a registered security. This can be a number of things but, basically, it's a document showing ownership of some value of something. Stock in a company can be a security, investments in a market index, etc. They have legit value, they are transferable, but they have a fungible value, based on the value of whatever the security is in, at the time it is purchased/sold.
For some reason he seems to believe that because something has a legit, defined, value the company is legally obligated take it as a form of payment. This is completely untrue, of course. They don't even have to take local currency if they don't want to (ex- if you have a $300 bill, and you try to pay in pennies, they have a right to turn down the payment). The UCC 3 he mentions is a form to amend information on a lien.
SCs believe that the United States Corporation uses US citizens as security to take out international loans.
For that purpose, the government opens up a secret bank account in the name of every citizen at birth.
If you know the correct magical mumbo-jumbo language, you can release the money deposited in that account for yourself and use it to pay for things, since you aren't a member of the corporation anymore.
wait. I thought there was a law requiring us currency to be accepted for debt payment.
So this is essentially the guy on Craigslist who gets offended that you don't want to sell him your car for a broken jet ski and a Playstation 2?
There is law that they must accept any official us currency to pay debts. This is not official us currency.
If this is a prepaid phone then it doesn't matter. They can say they accept/decline any payment they want if you have not received the goods/services yet.
But sir, I don't understand, I only answer to maritime law (Caribbean pirate locale) as I made abundantly clear in the missives I sent - no to you because I don't partake in so-called 'legal shipment' schemes. I must assume you didn't receive the message in a bottle I sent but I'm not responsible for this. Therefore you have to accept the payment I sent (strangely you received this one) in the form of a letter of change from the Germano-Papuan Trade Company.
There is law that they must accept any official us currency to pay debts. This is not official us currency.
The following is according to the federal reserve. It may be different in another country, but it looks like this post is from the US.
There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.
This is why, when people are pissed about a bill, then try to pay several hundred dollars in pennies, the place can turn the payment down.
Since 2020 this has become a really popular conspiracy in the States, that we are marching towards a "cashless society" that will doom us all.
Had a friend from high school say that not accepting cash is an "illegal transaction" and that the tattoo place he wanted to go to should be investigated for it.
Muricans really do need to all be special little peeps, I guess
In the US, a government agency must accept any legal tender, including pennies. A private business can refuse specific forms of payment.
But what about debt. What I had seen before was a requirement to take us currency for debt. This sounds like a restaurant can be credit card only. If they give you services and bill you later im not so sure.
What is sovereign citizen?
It's a loose term for a bunch of lunatics who believe they are not subject to government laws or taxes. They use fake license plates, do not have drivers licenses, send in fake magic coupons to pay their bills, and believe that signing in red ink at a 45 degree angle conveys special powers. They're an absolute trip and I highly recommend watching some YouTube videos of them being pulled over, they refuse to cooperate, yell repeatedly 'am I being detained ', and it almost always ends up with a window smash and dragging out of the car. It's endlessly entertaining.
Extreme dumb shits
just use one of those $1 million jeebus bucks like a good christian.
Out of all the segmented degenerate hiveminds in the US, I think sovereign citizens often baffle me the most.
The most profoundly puzzling thing to me is their insistence that magic words will somehow make authorities back off.
Like, they believe that there is this grand conspiracy involving the Federal Reserve and maritime law and birth names and whatever else. And yet they also believe that the forces behind this conspiracy must acquiesce if you just invoke the right language.
Do they never consider that an entity powerful enough to do all that could also just ignore their demands? Like, even if the conspiracy is true, why would its perpetrators just give up because some random person told them to?
Check out The Freemen. This is pretty much where this stuff came from, whackos in Montana during the 90s who pulled off the longest standoff with the FBI in American history (may have changed since).
They had their own currency (which some locals would actually accept), and they were very, very good at painting themselves as innocent victims.
I believe that because of them and other groups like The Montana Militia are one of the prime influences for this movement.
It's the same impulse that made medieval people believe they could defend themselves from fairies and demons by saying the right things the right way. Some part of the insanity demands that a person who sees through the illusion can somehow win against the evil conspirators
My guess would be that by using the right words they pretend to be part of that power, because how else would one tell apart the laymen and true sovereign citizens.
Don't know if that even has anything in common with what they say their reasons are, that's too crazy to read 😅
I know right. To be absolutely convinced that there are loopholes in everything and that only the rubes are playing by the rules is one thing. But to maintain that belief in the face of what must become a long string of failures… takes a certain mental toughness to be kind.
I suppose if you look around and everyone else seems to be doing better than you, maybe you assume they must all be cheating and you start looking to get in on the game. A few YouTube holes down the road you think you can pay your child support with secret legal incantations.
They're grifters of the self.
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough
We have a similar bunch of wackos in Germany, the Reichsbürger. They claim that the modern German constitution is illegal because the German Empire was never officially disbanded as an entity and therefore they don't have to follow the current laws. Many also dream of reinstating a monarchy and are - surprise! - fascists.
Similarly same is happening in Czechia. Sovcivs claim Czechoslovakia splitting wasn't constitutional or something like that. Similar idea, same bunch of dumb fucks.
Wasn't it a group of Reichbürgers that got arrested last year for planning a coup in a partnership with right wing military officers?
Is there a royal family in Germany? Like that monarchy lasted about a hundred years... And it's been that same amount of time since then!
I used to be baffled by Flat Earthers until I realized it was just a religious thing.
I find them baffling, what's their deal?
Is it like a religion for them or is there an actual religion?
I'm guessing somewhere up the chain is a person making money from it, probably a book or class that teaches the "secrets." And of course when your sovcit crap fails to work you didn't follow the program to the T.
I mean, that's basically Great Value Scientology.
I'm completely out of the loop, what is this "sovereign citizen" nonsense?
It's mental illness and wishful thinking all wrapped up together. They believe whole heartily that if they don't agree to the rules of society they are under no obligation to follow societies rules unless a rule benefits them then they should also benefit. I'm sure there are some who are just using it to grift but I believe a majority of them honestly have some form of mental disability because I watched the trial for Darrel Brooks who decided to drive through a crowd at a parade killing six people and injuring several others and he was literally dumbfounded that he was found guilty because he believed the law didn't apply to him as a sovcit.
You know how some people think that a good lawyer can get anyone out of anything if they find the right loophole? SivCits take that to an extreme using completely made up rules. For example, your name printed in ALL CAPS refers to a legal corporation, while normal case refers to you as a human being. If your name is ever printed in all caps, such as on a summons to appear in court, that doesn't actually mean you.
They claim they don't have to follow laws because the flag has fringe on it and something, something, maritime laws. So US law doesn't apply to them.
If that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, it's because Sovereign Citizen doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I think it's a wild and varied and disorganized mess dreamed up by people who have left the very idea of being reasonable far behind them long ago.
However, a crucial part of it is certain specific capitalization of words. I think some of them had been using caps lock to post rants on discus for too long and think that it has some magical meaning under law...
I say all that to say that they believe that there's a "legal entity" that is invoked when you capitalize versus plain case someone's name (amongst other things)...and that there is a difference between this "legal entity" and the person in a body...which there frankly plainly and obviously isn't.
Despite being told in court by multiple judges that the capitalization of things does not matter, they persist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement#Immunity_from_laws_and_taxes
I thought the capitalization stuff was kind of a side show, but have since realized that not only is it crucial to their belief system, it also serves as a way to identify them on the Internet. If someone strangely insists on capitalizing certain words or phrases every time they use them and is otherwise very unreasonable, there's a good chance they're a sovcit (or should I say SOVCIT? 🙂).
I think it appears from a fundamental misunderstanding of the social contract. They disagree that they are bound by government and it's laws because they never agreed to it explicitly. They are wrong. Being born in America means your are a citizen and bound by it's rules... they still live here and utilize the infrastructure, they never renounce their citizenship and they don't leave, so it's all crappy entitlement shit to try and get out of tickets and bills and taxes
Congrats! You're one of today's lucky 10000!
Like they're just making words up. Living completely in their own world
Munecat i think did an amazing video on sovcits. And hey now, we only started this problem but weve apparently exported it everywhere else.
Yes I've heard of at least 1 person in Western Europe trying this. They did not get far and are now way deep in debt. But luckily the government they resisted against assigned them a keeper to help get out of the debt. In an anonymous interview they said they regretted the whole thing and were mislead by others. They are now actually really grateful for all the help the government offers to people in shit, even though they got themselves there.
Australia's working on it and getting pretty far. Heck the original Q-board-owner-guy was Aussie. You'd figure that in the land of Rupert Murdoch though eh.
Yep, gottem up here north of the 49th now...