Truth

The truth:

windows is the one that should be the toy wheel here.

macos is unix, and quite solid

and im a big apple hater.

Lol, call me back when they support bsd jails. Or a five button mouse. Or a decent amount of RAM. Or a package manager. Or more than 2 ports. Or an SDCard slot
- My 2022 macbook pro has a charging port, four USB-C ports (one of which can be used for charging as well), an HDMI port, a minijack port, and an SD card slot.
  I use homebrew for package management, and have yet to be dissatisfied with that.
  This machine also happens to have 32 GB of RAM.
  I don't know about mouse-support, but I mostly use my keyboard for everything, and have yet to miss having more than two buttons and a scroll wheel on my mouse. With my previous (2012) macbook however, I used a five-button mouse sometimes.
  Really don't know where you get your info on macs, but you it seems you missed the phone when you were called back sometime around 2010.
- i mean, its obviously no linux...
  wait, it doesn't support five button mice?
I have always hated Apple the company... the products are way too overpriced and nerfd but Ok overall

I’m gonna say windows is more like a cybertruck truck. Full of bloat, spyware, and half the features are not like to slice a finger off than do what it’s supposed to- and definitely not bullet proof.

Maybe decades ago, but not now.

Yeah, Mac stuff is white or silver now. They stopped doing the colourful stuff 20-odd years ago.
Mac osx has unix command prompts built in and the ability to containerize out of the gate. Windows requires WSL and a bunch of other shit to achieve a substantially worse effect.
- The out of the box containerization is still pretty new though — it’s like a month old
Exactly. Modern Windows is like Tesla - shiny exterior built on top of garbage cobbled together with paperclips and duct tape. No visible knobs, no easy to access features, everything hidden behind layers of needless menus and abstraction with the express goal to extract maximum value from their 'customers'.
I'm not an Apple fanboy by any means but I feel like the two ecosystems are much closer now than they were 10-15 years ago.
Kids use Chromebooks everywhere I’ve seen the past 5+ years.
Not even decades ago. ResEdit was one way we hacked old Macs back in the day.

It's an older meme sir but it doesn't check out anymore.

For the love of Pete, not this again.

Many flavors of Linux are more simple and user friendly than Windows or Mac.

Mac is unix-based and very similar to Linux in many ways.

Windows is like that car that Homer Simpson designed.

Inaccurate.

If you're a Linux user why wouldn't you unlock MacOS' potential by using the command line? MacOS is UNIX based, so you have access to its guts, just as you would any other UNIX based system.

Exactly. MacOS is the best of both worlds; it’s my absolute favorite distro of BSD.
It’s not just UNIX based; it is a certified UNIX OS:
\ https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
- Hence the "based"
Because I'm not going to willingly give my creative efforts over to a corporation that will hold it hostage and only allow me to work so long as I'm using only their products.
- I mean, yeah, screw using Logic but most major DAWs run on macOS as well as Windows. Up until Linux pulls its finger out its arse on audio it's pawbably going to stay a macOS dominated industry.
/bin/bash -c "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/HEAD/install.sh)"
Homebrew, plus some VMs, and you get the best of all platforms in one computer.
This used to be particularly awesome when macOS was intel based, as now running an intel based machine image on apple's ARM architecture is awkward by comparison, but hopefully that will resolve somewhat soon.
- but hopefully that will resolve somewhat soon
  By converting everyone to ARM !!!!
- Apple silicon is sick. I'm salivating for a Linux distro dedicated to Apple M chips.
@JoMiran @nginx because it's just a toy, not intended for real use
- That is just dumb. Most devs in tech I know default to Macs as their dev boxes. Macs are also the defacto workhorse for music, video production.
  If you want to say that Macs don't make for good servers, I'll give you that, but saying they aren't tools is just ignorant.
- Guess I’ve been using a toy to administer Linux servers for the past 20 years. 🤷‍♂️
- What's considered real use in your opinion?
- You sound out of touch.
- I approve. I don't care if it's unix based. MacOS is infantilism manifest.

That’s my phone choice. Lol can you imagine the amount of tasks needed to complete to accept/deny incoming/outgoing transactions..

This is some boomer level “hurr hurr” bullshit that is just patently not true. Keep giving Microsoft credit it doesn’t deserve.

Right? Windows is like a Tesla. One of those wankpanzers that cut off your fingers, brick in the car wash and immolate their drivers.
The trashing of the Apple machines is undeserved, but the Windows one is relatively accurate.
Windows is the thing that everybody uses, like a car. But, it should be a modern car where the car manufacturer requires you to pay a yearly subscription to unlock basic features that shipped with the car. It's a car that you can't fix yourself, and have to take to an authorized service station where they pay a fee to get access to the tools that allow them to diagnose the car.
I don't know what the Mac one should be. A modern Mac is really powerful. It's a Unix machine with a clean and polished UI. But, it's true that it shields the average user from the complexity if they don't want to dig deeper. Maybe it's a modern Bugatti. A luxurious vehicle that has obscene power under the hood.

I'd reverse Windows and Mac. Mac is sleek, smooth, pleasant, well integrated, solid, stable, and has a good shell. They have great machines with great specs and are well built. They also take some learning to become efficient with.

Windows on the other hand, is cheap, buggy, ugly, unstable, comes pre-packaged with flashy junk, breaks easily, any child can use it and then break it.

I completely agree. As a software developer I preferred when I had a Mac whereas our company uses Windows and Microsoft for everything and it just meh.
Mac was so easy to do everything from the terminal or the search bar.
- Plus I like how they have the Homebrew packaging system to install pretty much anything you need.
  Windows has something similar with chocolatey but it's just not as complete. It's not *nix apps either.

It's interesting to see a modern, POSIX compliant, Unix implementation characterized as a children's toy. These arguments are simple minded. I develop on a Mac, and deploy it to Linux in most cases. And yes I do understand that this is also possible on widows now - but not my preference.

From your comment I'm going to guess that like most in this community, and lemmy as a whole, you know a lot more about this than your average user.
From the perspective of a reasonably tech savvy person that doesn't like to be told how to do things and is willing to put in a little effort, the question I ask is this; is this hardware I bought actually mine to do with as I please out of the box with a minimum amount of guardrails to stop me from doing something really stupid unless I know what I'm doing as opposed to just licensing it from a nanny?
Linux - yes, maybe too much, at least for me.
Windows - yeah, usually.
Mac - lmao no, stfu and take your sippy cup.
And there is nothing wrong with someone who is just a user saying "I don't ever want to deal with any of this shit, I'll take the sippy cup." But it's still a sippy cup.
- I really don't see backing for this take like... anywhere?
  Sure: Linux gives you absolute control, I won't debate that. I work on a Mac however, and haven't yet found any guard rails that a simple sudo !! won't get me passed.
  Windows on the other hand requires you to do all sorts of arcane shit if you want to do anything at all outside of checking boxes in a shitty GUI to enable/disable features.

Flip Windows and macOS and I think the meme works again.

I think there is an argument to be made here. About window shitty, inconsistent, obscure ui. That you constantly have to Google to figure out where are your settings. unlike macOs much more streamline UI

As an engineer, I would rather develop on Mac than any other OS. I have shit to do and need to work in a POSIX compliant OS without bloat, while also not worrying about my OS install getting borked arbitrarily because I looked at it wrong.

Weird, I've been forced to use a Mac for work, never liked it. I prefer Debian or other non-rolling-release distros with long term support, and haven't had a Linux install get messed up in many years (since I used Arch, and something went wrong with my proprietary Nvidia drivers after an update).
As another engineer, I won't touch another Mac until it allows me to upgrade memory and disk without buying a whole other unit.
- Never had to upgrade memory or disk in the lifespan of the machine. What really makes a difference though is 20 hours of battery life. You can run around the office without worrying about staying plugged in.
  Also, AMD is also going towards the SoC approach.its only a matter of time before you can’t upgrade memory on PCs too.
I enjoyed using a MBP for a few years, mostly for the trackpad. I eventually grew too annoyed with the desktop crashes and iCloud bloat though. I built a new Linux workstation last year, and it just feels like home 🐧.

You know macOS ships with a terminal ootb, right? There's a reason it's a massively popular option for devs.

This is Mac

And this is Windows

Jeepers. These comments. I agree with you. I love Linux, but, unless you’re lucky enough to have perfect hardware, Linux is still a bit hard to use. Mac and Windows are heading that way too. Macs require a Mac, and new Windows PCs have hardware requirements as well. I’m on my third distro for one of my Linux PCs because of hardware issues. I love Linux, but sometimes it’s a pain.

Windows needs to be big brother watching at all times while forcing ads down your throat.

Apple just needs a very high price tag.

Even that needs a disclaimer. I was ordering some SFF PCs for my org last week and was kind of shocked how much the Lenovo and Dell PCs in that form factor were.. out of curiosity I specc’d a Mac Mini with the same RAM and storage and they came in a little cheaper with a better processor. Only caveat is the lack of USB A ports, but dongles are super cheap anyway. If my users wouldn’t need training to use them I would definitely have considered (maybe even preferred from a device management perspective) the Mac Mini.
- Factor in an energy cost savings as part of the TCO. A M4 Mini will save considerable energy over any comparable machine.
- Managing Mac’s compared to PCs is such a dream it’s soooooo easy

Lies. I see no cameras and keyloggers on the windows side.

I was going to say that to make this accurate they need to show the complete car for windows.
There is a copilot in the passenger seat writing down everything you do and making suggestions left and right, and the screen has to have ad's on it.
The back seats are empty and the rear doors are locked because you don't havn't licensed them.

My 97yo grandma uses Linux without even being aware what OS she's on. Web sites open the same. Telegram works the same.

Anyone saying Linux isn't user friendly hasn't used it in decades or ever.

Most Windows/macos users wouldn't be able to install those either so that's a non argument.

Linux is user-friendly, but it is way more customisable than either Windows or MacOs
- That's true, but I've been using it for 25+ years and prefer stock kde experience. Daily driver for work and play. Fewer issues than windows for sure. I can't figure out macos so I try to avoid it.
What distro does she use? Mint?
- OpenSuse

I'll take any excuse that I can get to dump this story somewhere. A relative of mine has bought an iMac. She created some videos with it. After some time has passed, the Mac's native Apple media player (I forgot the name) refused to play the videos she has created with the Apple iMac software. But it conveniently pointed her to a 20 € "upgrade" that she could buy to make it work again. She asked me for help, I installed MPV instead. Worked like a charm. On an unrelated note, that thing is glued together, and the storage is soldered on, likewise is the ram.

"Apple's design is so simple!". Why do people put up with this trash?

Edit: I forgot to mention all of the videos were in Apple's own .mov format.

I decided to switch to mac a couple of years ago. I have been extremely unhappy with the results. I have a good mechanical keyboard which is built for both PC and Mac (it has Mac-specific keys), but nope, compability sucks and keybindings are messed up across a lot of the keys, making it basically a guessing game each time I need a paranthesis. I usually work within a Linux VDI. Within the VDI, keybindings are further messed up, making it hard to find the correct keys, even on the integrated laptop keyboard. I have a usb-c connected screen/docking station which only connects properly about 75% of the time. I have a stream deck which randomly refuses to connect, making me have to unplug and replug every now and then. I regularly want to connect to multiple display, which often turns put to be unsupported and basically impossible.
To me, it just seems like compability for mac is completely terrible. A lot of the issues could be solved by throwing more money at apple - by getting an apple keyboard or apple screen or subscription software - but for stubborn people like me, apple is not getting a dime for these kind of issues. None of these issues existed before I got the mac.
I am leaving the apple ecosystem for good when my company allows me to get a new machine.
Yeah, Macs are great if all your other stuff is Apple and all your subscriptions are Apple and all your cloud is Apple and you buy a new $2k unrepairable computer and go along with whatever huge changes Apple brings.
And they are actually quite user friendly… until something doesn’t work, or you want to reach out of its approved purview.
They are also dev friendly too, but the hurdle for that is high enough that one might consider Linux at that point.
But on your point, say what you will about Windows and all the UI garbage and bloat MS adds, but underneath, it is utterly stagnant, lol.
- They are also dev friendly too,
  Not saying you're wrong because I don't use it, but from the outside, they appear actively hostile toward developers.

Windows is most definitely not a fucking viper. Try Reliant Robin

As much as I hate MacOS I love their interface aesthetic.

And it's an official Unix system, which seems to bother some Linux users.
- POSIX compliance jealousy? 🤪
- Anyone can become an official unix system if they would pay up. Random rhel rebuilts were 'official unix system' at one point or another.
- If you access the guts of a Mac through CLI tools, I have some questions. Is it legal from the Apple point of view? Will it void your warranty?
MacBooks are legitimately just superior laptops, especially now that apple silicon is well supported. I don't like iPhones or their desktops, but the laptops are pretty much unmatched in terms of portability, features, battery life etc
I am an unabashed Linux stan but I use a macbook to ssh into my Linux boxes because there is no Linux laptop which is half as good.
That's why I use Pop!_OS as my daily driver distro.
- Pop!_OS gang rise UP!!
- Same. Clean, modern, responsive.
  Most importantly: decluttered.

Mac is in this weird bubble where it can be the kid with a toy wheel or the airplane cockpit.

Mostly people using it are using it like a baby toy though

Windows being a viper? Absofuckinglutely not, the viper being a way to powerful, analog and hands on car is the exact opposite of windows. Windows is more comparable to a modern, but badly build, electric car with all of the spyware and the features that comes with that.

The viper was a poorly made, uncomfortable, weird car with some stupid and inconvenient design choices. It was also not very reliable, used way too much fuel, and had serious safety issues. I think it's a perfect analogy for windows.
- This is all true with the addition that the Viper looks fucking sick even with those issues. Windows just looks lame no matter what.
- First edition vipers didn't even have door handles on the outside since the concept car on which it was ~~copy-pasted~~ based on didn't have them either
- The viper was all engine and least amount of car build to Chryslers budget. And it wasn’t really that bad reliability vise as it uses a big lowstrung pushrod engine, a manual transmission and no electronics to speak of. And yes it uses a lot of fuel, just like any other 400hp engine of that time. The only thing they share is the bad build quality, but for different reasons, Chrysler being broke while railing coke of a hookers ass and windows because of enshittification. Newer vipers er largely the same but with marginally better safety.

The only way that has any accuracy is if the Linux photo has a button that quite literally manages most of the other buttons for you, and the more complicated stuff exists really only if you want to do it manually.

You can get by just fine literally never touching any of those buttons day-to-day. But they're there for the people who want to get down in the mud with their operating system.

Remove the chocks, fire up the engines, head to the taxiway. Checklists and walkarounds are for noobs. If you get some red flashing lights, just do like the flight sim videos and tell it to shhhh.

figures windows would have the steering wheel on the wrong side. it's all backwards.

My distaste for Apple products largely stems from their lack of video games. And price tags. And interface. And their users (except CGP Grey, I forgive him).

Games are ramping up as the hardware landscape flattens performance wise. Keep an eye on it.
They have built or are building the same tools Nvidia is for things like scaling and frame generation too. They have porting tools they never had in the past now, and they iterate on them every year.
- I just want someone to port PISSStream to KDE

No. MacOS is far more capable (there is a bit of bullshit with signing now though).

Chromebooks on the otherhand...

sorts by controversial

The better metaphor for the Mac would be a bicycle.

Downvotes? Don't bicycles have a far cleaner and more intuitive interface while elegantly reaching their destination?

You can't compare velocity, Linux is not that much faster on the same hardware that that property of the plane would be relevant.

It’s a walled garden, so maybe more like those rideshare e bikes or scooters.
I dunno. I won’t mock a person for using Mac.
Microsoft would be more like a cybertruck. Complete with the catching fire bits.
- I use Mac and Linux. I just want my shit to work without having to fuck around. Mac is good for that.

I think I first saw this (or something close) on reddit in like 2010 which even then was dated. Really brings me back in a "that shit fucking sucked" way.

People saying switch windows and Mac to make modern but I'm pretty sure that kids toy is going to have less bugs and is much less likely to crash. It's also streamlined and does what you expect it to quickly. I don't know if that's what Macs are like but it's definitely not my experience with windows.

Pfffthhhth

It depends on a user