We can't even talk in this community dedicated to vegans without someone coming along and meatsplaining.

Halal eaters and teetotalers don't try to preach as and convert as often, perhaps?

(I support vegans and I dont mock them, for the record.)

Halal eaters do try to convert you, but to their religion, not their eating habits.
They are also made fun of for that.
People genuinely don't like to be told what they are doing is wrong.
Why do people call it preaching?
It's baffling that "Hey maybe hamburgers aren't worth kilometers of cows chained with their face in a feed trough. Arranged this way so that the only activity they can engage in is to gorge themselves on low quality feed frequently filled with bits of other cows (backfeeding). Maybe they like have feelings and deserve better than this followed by a dehydrated wait in a death line in some artificially lit temple to screams and blood and horror?"
Is talked about in the same language as "Invisible sky person is deeply concerned about your masturbating habits and you are going to suffer for it!"
- Why do people call it preaching?
  Because despite it being logical to a point, usually the ones who wish to talk about can't actually explain the rationale for some of the more extremely ends of the philosophy.
  I'm completely against industrial meat farming, but for instance game meat from deer that were killed for deer management?
  Obviously a vegan will take the position that "eating meat is wrong, you're killing just for pleasure" usually. Which obviously isn't true, as there's no "just for pleasure", becsuse we're not talking about trophy hunting, but deer management, which is crucial and without which a lot of animals (and humans) would end up sick, suffering and dying as the ecosystem would overpopulate with deer, leading to a cascade of bad consequences, destroying the environment and the animals in it.
  I support vegan products and consider myself a flexitarian, but I do also consume the occasional meat product. Preferably when it's cruelty free game meat.
  Sheep are also another thing. Unless we plan to systematically eradicate the species, then we must tend to some sheep at least, which will mean shearing them, as that's required for their health. So then we end up with wool. Should that wool not be used? Would it be cruel to use that wool?
  That of course again doesn't mean I'm not fervently against the horrible practices of the large sheep industry. It's just a question of "can't you see the eventual problems that taking a position so extreme would yield?"
  And questioning these things can upset people, as it'd require flexing the ideology a bit, and that's something a lot of fervent vegans seem to have issues with. Which is apparent through say, using words like "carnist" to describe anyone who isn't 100% vegan. Almost in the same way dogmatic religions call anyone disagreeing "a heretic".
  In the same way that monotheistic Abrahamic religions are, most of the "fighting" rhetoric of vegans is very much dogmatic.
- Just curious, do you not see how that would frustrate someone who is not vegan? If your goal is to be confrontational, that little speech definitely hits the mark, but if you’re not, perhaps reflect on the preaching.
  Personally, eat what you want to eat. The more vegans and vegetarians around, the better those food choices will be for everyone.
- Preaching doesn't mean lying or talking about unimportant things, nothing you said contradicts the idea its preaching.
  Preaching is when you describe your beliefs in an attempt to convert other people, or to change their behavior.

I've definetly heard plenty of people making fun of or discriminating against others with dietary restrictions due to their religions. Hell I've also heard people making fun of others with lactose intolerance or celiac disease...

We can and should strive for better, but sometimes people can just be terrible 🫤

In my experience it is not NEARLY as prevalent as when someone learns that you are vegan or finds out about vegan communities and whatnot. People make countless memes about vegans for example, but when was the last time you saw a meme about someone choosing to eat Halal? Because to my knowledge there is no scientific study on the different experiences of these groups it is impossible to talk about this topic in any way that isn't anecdotal but for what it's worth I have been all over the US and the anecdotal experience that I have had is so overwhelming that I refuse to believe someone is arguing in good faith if they are claiming that, for example, someone eating Halal has even a remotely similar experience to that of vegans.
My guess is that this is because people tend to associate other dietary or lifestyle decisions as being just a different way to live. Like oh, that person is Muslim or Jewish and that influences their diet. And they don't take that as a personal judgement anymore than they do when they learn that that person is Muslim or Jewish to begin with. But with veganism it is usually not something that a person is raised into. It is a decision that that person has made after learning more about the animal agriculture industry and it is usually for ethical reasons primarily. Not because a religious book told them to. Therefore they hear that someone is vegan and are instantly defensive in a way that isn't true with halal, kosher, etc.
- As you've said, this is all anecdotal, but I'd guess that non-vegan non-muslim non-jewish people most often have to "deal with" vegans as opposed to the other two. A quick search says that in the US there are more vegans than muslim and jewish people combined (without even including vegetarians, which definetly get lumped in the same group). Also, there are definetly other kinds of discrimination against the religious groups going on, so maybe their dietary restrictions doesn't exactly top the list of things to "meme" about.
  I'm definetly not saying that vegans are wrong or that they deserve the amounts of "jokes" on them on, far from it, I just wanted to share my experience with "jokes" in very bad taste.

I still remember fondly an occasion at a wedding when my friend group all got placed at the same table, and we were 90% veg with one couple who ate meat. They remarked on it, and we all spent the rest of the meal joking about how it felt to be the minority, and they had to field questions like, "If you were on a desert Island with only vegetables, what would you do?"

yeah the hardest part of being vegan is interacting with non vegans. gotta love how the default response to veganism (you know that thing we do to try to better the planet and animal rights and shit) is to argue as if doing something about the issues you care about is a negative trait.

mfs always got something to say and love attacking a thing that as far as i'm aware is proven to be better for personal health, the environment, your wallet, and animals.

Honestly I've been so quiet about it offline, and one time I just said no thanks to cake as I don't eat dairy, etc, and the whole room alternately made fun of me and told me why I was wrong and meatsplaines until I got up and left.
- i hear you - i've basically learned to avoid any topic or activity related to food with other people irl, which really sucks.
  cooking is one of my favorite hobbies, can't talk to my friends about it anymore. hell, a close friend from high school completely stopped talking to me because we had literally one very reasonable and civil (from my perspective) debate about veganism. it's been years since i heard from them.
  i got a single one of my close friends to even consider trying it, and i've been too anxious to even bring it up since last we spoke about it - a couple years ago now. they didn't seem to believe in the ethics/lifestyle of it and i'm terrified of learning that this person i care so much about has decided that their sensory pleasure is worth more than the lives of the animals they eat.
  my experiences with speaking about veganism to the people that i care about is that it is a taboo subject; one that will make other people upset with me and potentially ruin relationships. and i think that fucking sucks.
- Just decline without giving a reason
  If pressed, say you don't feel like it
- We have a friend with an egg allergy, dairy allergy, and MMA. They're vegan as well by choice but it's made me very careful. I've briefly upset a few vegans and vegetarians by questioning them in a bit more depth. It's happened much less over time as I've refined how I clarify and ask.
  I'm always amused when someone says vegetarian. Okay, what type? Can I serve you cheese? Eggs? Fish? One of my coworkers is also vegetarian but eats chicken...which was new to me.
I am changing my diet, but I am not fully "there" yet.
I have gotten a lot of traction by merely saying "today is not a meat day for me" when I order some things.
It's way easier to eat at a veg-forward restaurant, but those aren't always available, and often the food is expensive.

I think "personal choice" comes off as slightly dismissive, as if it's below your effort to even discuss.
Personally, I just go with "for ethical reasons, plus, its good for the environment" and I've never had anyone chuck a tantrum.
- In my experience, the reactions depend a lot on the people you talk to and well, what you look like.
  Like, I've got a tiny lady colleague who's vegan and she's never been in a conflict from being vegan.
  Meanwhile, me as a big dude, I will get various males who take it as a personal affront:
  those who are just insecure about their own food choice,
  those who take every interaction with other males as a competition for who's better (me telling them I'm doing it for ethical reasons means I'm saying their ethics are bad),
  those who are stuck in their old ways (women can eat salads, not men though),
  and last but definitely not fucking least, (ex-)military dudes who are personally disappointed that, despite me having the physique of their military buddies, I have different values.
  This is especially also amplified on the countryside, where not only progressive ideas take longer to arrive, you've also got farmers with skin in the game.
  In my hometown, there's a pig farmer. Holy fuck, for that guy, my mere existence was a statement that his entire livelihood is immoral.

Lemmy's so small I can't browse without posts from the vegan community showing up on front page feeds. Of course that'll draw in anyone/everyone.

which means it often comes along with judgemental opinions about carnists
I would disagree with this portion of your post if it said most or all vegans. I have found most vegans are making a personal decision without passing judgement on others.
Even so, there absolutely are militant vegans who want to shame others, and those vocal minority give the rest a bad name.
Source: Spouse is vegan. I am supportive, slowly changing my diet. Blood tests show really positive results. I still don't understand honey.
- I mean that's not only vegans. On tinder i see a ton of militant meat eaters and anti vegans. Vegans or vegetarians literally say: i'm vegan, would be nice if you were too. While the other side of the coin is: real men eat meat, sorry not sorry. I eat meat, because i enjoy food too much. Please no vegans. I met one super annoying vegan in my life who said: eating meat is like paedophilia, once you fucked a child you'll always be a childfucker. On the other hand every time someone puts one and one together and realises that i'm a vegan, they tell me how bad it is and how good meat is and that it sucks.
- The short version:
  https://ko-fi.com/post/Unveiling-the-Bitter-Side-of-Honey-M4M5N7135
  https://www.fastcompany.com/90457908/eating-honey-is-more-complicated-than-you-might-think
  If you know anything about apiculture, then you know that it's part of animal farming/raising (zootechny) in the same vein as pastoralism.
- You are having regular blood tests? Is there a reason for this?

The screenshot is obviously wrong. People will make fun of anyone for anything, anywhere and anytime. Problem is the disagreement on what's acceptable.

Veganism is (mostly) binary for a reason. You either kill and exploit non-human animals for your pleasure (taste, comfort, affordability, i.e. a want) or you don't (exceptions exist, but mostly represent needs and not wants, e.g. conditions, intial acclimatisation etc.)
Veganism and Vegetarianism are not two steps of the same ladder. I'm not an expert on vegetarianism, but AFAIK vegetarianism aims to avoid meat-eating. Veganism aims to minimise suffering from the killing and exploitation of (non-human) animals by abstaining from consuming products directly made from (non-human) animals.
Veganism isn't inherently utilitarian. I don't agree with them, but there are vegans who are climate change (impact) denialists. I don't agree that giving up on veganism (which has huge climate action potential) for some vague 'free energy' is a viable climate action path that doesn't follow RCP8.5. Nevertheless, I consider those either-or, dichotomy debates as delayist discourse or simply put fossil fuel arguments. Food AND Energy need to cut emissions completely.

Non-vegan here. I was going to reply one time, but even tho I was supporting y'all I realized it's not really my place to speak. This community is supposed to be your safe space, and I respect that. I hope y'all have a good one and wish you all luck.

Gotta ask, if you support vegans/veganism I assume that means you take it as at least more right than wrong. Is that the case? if so what's holding you back from joining our feeble, protein deficient ranks?
I just ask because personally I spent a few years being like "Yeah these people are correct and don't deserve the hate but oysters? Is that really a priority concern?" before realising that was a baffling stance and I should align my actions with the 99% I agreed with and worry about the rest later if it ever came up.
- Fair question. Right now I live with my family, and basically everything we make has meat in it and since I don't cook I don't really get a say in it. Everything I choose to eat for myself is vegetarian, so I'm at doing a little.
  Even tho it's hard for me to stop rn, it's not like you guys are wrong about the horrible conditions and treatment of animals in farms so it would be hard for me to argue against y'all.

This is why I launched https://vegantheoryclub.org I delete the carnist posts lol

It is wrong though. Like you clearly care but what, it's ok to do a little evil as a treat? why?
- Evil is a relative term. I could argue that capitalism is evil, or buying things that can't be recycled, or Catholicism. Maybe start with asking yourself how you justify doing things someone else might think of as evil before using it as some sort of magic bullet argument.
I don’t hate vegans at all, I hate people that are pretentious assholes about being vegan
Which is zero vegans.

Being vegan doesn't equate with being religious. I think that a part of the problem is that some vegans truly do base their entire identity around it and people find that annoying, like when atheists are surrounded by one friend who won't shut up about god.

It's the same mindset that gets mad about things being woke

Relevant paper

Cole M, Morgan K. Vegaphobia: derogatory discourses of veganism and the reproduction of speciesism in UK national newspapers. Br J Sociol. 2011 Mar;62(1):134-53. doi: 10.1111/j.1468-4446.2010.01348.x. PMID: 21361905.

https://foodethics.univie.ac.at/fileadmin/user_upload/p_foodethik/Cole__M._2011._Vegaphobia._derogatory_discourses_of_veganism.pdf

Alt text for image:

A screenshot of a post by a user "Brusswole Sprouts" with the handle "@swolesprouts". The post reads as follows:

I've been vegan for over 10 years and I still don't understand why it's acceptable to make fun of vegans in social settings while you would never make fun of someone eating halal or not drinking for religious or cultural reasons.

Why is vegan culture less deserving of your respect?

Vegans do have the moral high ground simply by not murdering animals for food.
- Vegans do have the moral high ground simply by not murdering animals for food.
  There is absolutely no reason to take your feelings of persecution seriously, if you're locked in on the idea that you're morally superior to anyone who isn't a vegan. Identical vibes to an Evangelical Christian that ends arguements that go nowhere with I'll pray for you.
  Your attitude expressed here is the exact reason for that which you complain about.

I was at my dad's birthday last year and the meal was: sauerkraut, potatoes and an ABSURD amount of different meats. Like it was bizzare, even for someone who is used to people eat a lot of meat. It wasn't even good (i guess) because it was all greasy and just too much. It wasn't good looking or anything, it was just a lot and like half of it they threw away. At some point one of his alcoholic friends said loud: thank god there are no vegans here har har har. Are you so absorbed in your meat religion that... No, i still don't know what the point was. But everyone found it very funny, so i guess it is.

One of the things that really changed my perception was learning that a single burger patty might contain some ground up flesh of a few, or possibly even a hundred or more animals.
Our food system does a really good job of hiding it's brutality behind heavy processing, and clever packaging and advertising. But once we open our eyes to what really goes on, it can't be unlearned. We have a responsibility to at least make ourselves aware when our actions are responsible for awful things happening.

Furries could know better.

As a non vegan. I have the largest respect for you guys. Keep on living the good life. Maybe I can manage to hop over in the future.

It's honestly the best thing I ever did for myself. Made me think about food and living in s whole new way. Thanks for the genuine support, it gets old being made fun of.
I believe in you. It seems way harder than it really is. If you have questions or want recipes or tips or whatever there are armies of us dying to help others live in alignment with their values.
Also like selfishly I found I felt waaaaay better after going vegan. Probs more a side effect of just more whole foods but damned did I feel notably more energic and clear headed.
- All the days I have tried vegan, I constantly would have to eat to get full and get energy. So that's why I haven't gone vegan. I feel like you would just need to constantly eat.

Veganism is a philosophical belief and is regarded as such in the EU and UK at least, yes. Veganism isn't about food though, it's about everything touching animal rights and abuse.
It is akin to relgion in the sense that it is a moral question for the person and not a health concern.
Not sure why people get so touchy when religion is brought up.
- Well, tens of thousands of people are murdered every year, and millions have been brutally tortured and murdered for religious reasons over human history. From crusades to jihads, to caste systems. So, you'll see, it is a very sensitive topic when a subset of the population thinks their religion gives them permission to exact violence upon others.

Where I live its in the legal gray zone to talk shit about religion, so theres that. And so far that I know, no vegan have commited terror acts because of the ill treatment of vegans.

Don't post pictures of text

Pictures of text should have accompanying alt text. I'll see if we can add that as a rule
- Thanks. Can you also add a rule that it should have a link to the source, if it is a screenshot of a webpage?
  I see a lot of pictures of headlines or tweets, where it could easily be spreading misinformation. But just a link to the source solves the issue of accessibility for the blind and also citing the source for verifying the accuracy of the information.

I think this lack of respect is something new. I dont know when, but the other (pretty illogical and believe-driven) habits are all older than veganism

Have you seen the what does halal mean? youtube short by therealsamalkhatib? It's a cute little sketch and whenever I make/eat falafel now it's become a bit of a meme.

You don't make fun of halal or kosher? Where's the fun in that?!

Relevant thread:
https://lemmy.world/comment/10304725

to be fair we are made out of meat