YSK: Signal is a great secure private messenger app comparable to others on the market.

I still don't understand why they did that, I used to use Signal for everything and while it was clear that it couldn't encrypt basic SMS I could at least do all my messaging in one place. Now, I can't communicate with 80% of my contacts via Signal even if I wanted to, forcing two separate messaging apps.

Just let me send unsecured messages. It's fine. As it stands now I don't think I've even opened Signal in nearly six months even though I'd much rather use it than the default messenger.

Yeah this same thing happened to me. I rarely get messages in signal anymore and can't reliably know who still has it installed. It's great for folks you are in regular communication with though.

Yupp. Had been working for a while on getting people to Signal, and then they dropped SMS, and they moved to other things and i couldn't realy recommend it anymore.

I used to donate to Signal, and they made the stupidest fucking decision I've ever seen.

You used to be able to use signal (at least on Android) as your default messenger app, sending encrypted Signals to other users, or SMS to non-signal users. Have a normie family member who doesn't know about computers? Easy, set it & forget it.

Now? They removed that functionality, so it only works for other signal users. Someone else had a good metaphor: imagine if http and https needed different web browsers & you couldn't see one on the other. How well do you think https uptake would have been?

So fucking stupid.

Yes lol same. And because of the verification code that needs to be typed in every so often, my messages never reach them. I have to text them, “hey go to signal”, and then it finally goes through.

Question though? Why did they get rid of sms functionality?

Here in the Netherlands no one uses SMS, purely Whatsapp. So removing this functionality, though often complained about by people presumably from the US, did not hurt functionality at all here. I also like the features like Stories, it's a direct competition with Instagram/Snapchat, though just like Whatsapp Stories, barely anyone will use it.

Isn't Whatsapp encrypted end to end?

They tie themselves very closely with Google services, to the point that they refuse to be on FDroid by design

While they do push the Play Store version, they also have an APK, and my understanding is that it does not rely on Google Play Services, though it might be buggier without them. If I recall correctly, the origin of Signal not being on F-Droid was related to the building and signature model that F-Droid used (builds by F-Droid, then signed by F-Droid's keys), as mentioned in, eg, this issue. With that said, it has been pointed out that there are alternatives, like a separate repository, than, eg, the Guardian Project uses, and F-Droid apparently does now have a process for developer-signed apks.

Their general hostility toward outside developers and forks, however, and that the awkward server side code availability seemed to be related to the brazenly problematic cryptocoin advertisement, are extremely disappointing, however.

Telegram requires a phone number too. So I don't understand your point.

The cynic in me thinks it's to shed users to keep down operating costs

SimpleX looks interesting, thanks for sharing!

I stop talking to people who send me mass messages advertising apps because I actually do know my own worth.

I totally understand your point, but far from being a sheep, I live in a country where Whatsapp is the standard even for government, healthcare, college, private work. On the other hand showing people an app that only do better on privacy, which should be enough but it doesn't, but has no other appeals/features is a war lost before it's start. I'm happy many of you could do the switch. Best I could do, and I know I'll get ranted for this, was get as many people as I could to telegram. Please be gentle.

they have full control over the app

Yup, this is also my problem with Signal; you're stuck with whatever boneheaded decisions the devs make and there's nothing you can do about it. Personally, my pet peeve is their refusal to add any kind of data export. As someone who likes backing up chat history, this is a dealbreaker for me.

Random question as Im very interested in using XMPP: Are public homeservers fine as long as you enable encryptions? And is there a list of recommended homeservers?

Im aware you can self host, that just is not an option for me currently

If you have android, Molly is great 3rd party client.

Are you fundamentally against crypto? Not all crypto are scams.

Ah didn't know about that. That is a dealbreaker. Too bad, it always looked promising but now it just looks like a scam app.

I just wasn't budging. Refused to use WhatsApp and texted people instead. Slowly a lot of my friends switched and realised signal is better in every way. Even my parents find it the best as it is the easiest for them to use.

It's not really that tall of an ask to install one more app - especially one that asks for nothing, you're not taking away anything, you're adding.

People are weird.

Welcome to life after 40 - I’ve been an early adopter all my life, but my network hasn’t moved with me.

As a result joining Snapchat has no value for me.

So I tend to use apps that are friend-agnostic like this and TIkTok.

Side note: my fave messaging app is Confide, it only reveals redacted words as you run your finger over them, and then deletes. So it’s impossible to screenshot.

I pretty much dropped Signal after they announced they were losing SMS support. It's hard enough to sell my peers on another messaging app as it is, and Signal's UI choices have been frustrating from the get go.

For what it's worth, Google has picked up the same or better end-to-end encryption as Signal for users of its default messenger but will likely never do away with SMS support.

https://9to5google.com/2023/03/24/messaging-is-not-androids-mess-iphone-problem-with-lockheimer/

Oh no...

I've switched to a dumb Nokia phone two years ago, so can't use signal but I've always liked the service, I'm so sad to hear that... I've always assumed that one day I'll be getting the Punkt Pigeon phone, but these news are making me reconsider. Oh, no SMS support. Then there's zero reason to use signal, then. I'm never convincing all of my friends to switch, and I don't need another messaging app for the two that do.

I thought that they do know what they're doing, but crypto? Really? I wouldn't mind if they moved Signal to use smart contracts for messaging, but call they have to come up with is crypto? Lol.

The disadvantage of matrix is that a lot of metadata is generated. Good architecture in terms of idea, but unfortunately no privacy messaging.

I still try to understand Matrix.

FTFY:

Since we're all using Lemmy, an open source, decentralized, self hostable platform, wouldn't suggesting XMPP make much more sense?

It is kinda slow, the clients it has are bad and also this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32780665#:~:text=based%20on...-,If%20you're%20privacy%20focused%2C%20do%20not%20use%20matrix%E2%80%A6,metadata%20it%20leaks%20is%20astonishing.&text=The%20metadata%20that%20Matrix%20%E2%80%9Cleaks,email%2C%20or%20OMEMO%20encrypted%20XMPP.

This is why it was so good that Signal supported SMS. It was much easier to get people to switch when they didn't have to think back who was on Signal and who was not before starting a conversation. Now people just default to text because they know everyone has that, and they don't have to waste time opening Signal, seeing yup, not on there before opening their SMS app, if they even bother.

I got my sister to install Signal so that we could more security send financial receipts back and forth, etc. But I have another friend that doesn't want to install it because, "...it's another app I have to deal with...".

Likewise, I uninstalled as soon as they made the baffling decision to remove SMS. It became yet another competing messaging service.

It always baffles me that apparently in some places people still use sms. I mean besides the fact that it isn't encrypted at all, sms doesn't even give you group chats, the ability to send images and videos or many other of features basically every other messenger has, right? Where I live it's about (just guessing the numbers here tbh) 90 % WhatsApp, 7% telegram and 3 % signal. Is there any reason that in some places so many people stay with SMS? I don't think I've send or received one in the last 10 years or so (besides companies sending me a TAN or whatever)

There's no point in Signal if you want to use SMS

If it's decentralised, hosted by various unknown parties that can tamper with it as much as they like without thorough oversight, how can it be considered very secure? This is what worries me.

As an android user, I don't see why you would want to use something that restricts your secure messaging to a single platform.

Convinience

That is like the main thing apple has going for itself and people are not ready to let go of this convinience for other benefits

Yep.

WhatsApp has full E2EE and you can configure it to only store messages and backups on your device. Obviously others could save a cloud backup, but the backup is still fully encrypted as well. Messages aren't accessible by Meta and they can't be forced to turn them over to local governments, so it's really not a bad messaging app overall if you have to use it.