James Cameron Says if Avatar: Fire and Ash Doesn't Make Enough Money to Justify Avatar 4 and 5, He's Ready to Walk Away and Write a Book to Resolve the One Thread It Leaves Open

As an Indigenous Canadian, I think the whole Avatar series is sickening

An invading colonizing force of foreign people invading a native people ... but the natives are incapable of helping themselves so they need a white saviour to lead them in the fight against their oppressors

It's basically cultural appropriation masked as a space opera

The worst part of it is how wealthy European people are still able in the most imaginative ways possible are able to monetize the misery and memory of oppressed people. Not only did they destroy entire cultures, they spend a good part of their time making money off of that memory and history.

The only thing I enjoy about the films is the AI, CGI and special effects ... beyond that, the writing is just another continuation of white people fantasizing about what it would be like to be a heroic Indigenous person who wins over colonizers ... a fantasy that has never been allowed to exist in reality.

As opposed to the other Avatar, which explicitly features Inuit and mesoamerican cultures resisting literal fascist, genocidal regimes. And deconstructs the “chosen one” trope while they’re at it. And (as of now) uses culturally appropriate VAs.
- Which avatar? The only one I can think of is the last air bender but I don't know how they deconstruct the chosen one trope
It's a white saviour rehash. Classic movie trope in the USA and yes it is incredibly insulting.
My favorite movie about an Indigenous person taking on an invading and/or colonizing force is Prey. No white savior there.
- Prey was fucking awesome
- Good shit there for sure.
- It's kind of messed up how many pieces of media share that title. The 2006 video game is also about an indigenous person fighting aliens, but otherwise completely unrelated..
- oh yes
I completely agree with you. Cameron always gets so triggered whenever he's faced with this criticism as well, like all rich white American liberals. He doesn't even try to hide these views because he's so incredibly clueless:
In an interview with The Guardian in 2010, Cameron said the Lakota Sioux Nation was a "hopeless" and "dead-end society".
The interview was prompted by Cameron's visit to the Xingu tribe, located in the Amazon, who were fighting against the development of the Belo Monte hydroelectric dam.
During his time there he witnessed cultural ceremonies.
"I felt like I was 130 years back in time, watching what the Lakota Sioux might have been saying at a point when they were being pushed and they were being killed and they were being asked to displace," he said.
He noted that 'this was the driving force' in creating Avatar.
"I couldn't help but think that if [the Lakota Sioux] had had a time-window and they could see the future… and they could see their kids committing suicide at the highest suicide rate in the nation... because they were hopeless and they were a dead-end society – which is what is happening now – they would have fought a lot harder." Source
- Wow, that is a disgusting thing to say about ANY culture, especially one that you admit is facing its own issues. Also, comparing a tribe from the Amazon to one from the Great Plains is kinda like saying 'Wow, those people suffering in Estonia really reminds me of the people suffering in Ethiopia'. Not my best analogy but you get my point
There's a reason it's commonly known as "dances with smurfs"
He thinks he's worldbuilding. It's fucking Propaganda

no on cares about the plot of avatar, and we're still surprised people bother seeing it.

People watch Avatar because of the bleeding edge CG. It's not a unique story. It never has been. It's Pocahontas. It's Dances with Wolves. It's Fern Gully. It's A Man Called Horse.
Theyre all similar stories. Foreign heroes saving the "savage" local population that can't defend themselves from the technology, while learning about them along the way.
The story isn't why people go to watch Avatar.
- honestly idk why Cameron even bothers with a plot. he could just make a faux nature documentary. that seems to be the part he's interested in, and the best-executed and most interesting parts of the movies, but he seems to think nobody will watch it unless he shoves that all into the background and slaps a dumb action flick you've already seen a hundred times on top of it. and maybe he's right, idk
tbf, when I actually watched movies I never cared about the plot before hand anyways. I'm there to experience it while it's playing, not learn about it beforehand, see trailers, hear what the movie is about then go watch it. it just ruins the movies
now since I can't get away from the world spoiling movies constantly, even in commericals about them.. and corporations just remaking stuff and having zero creativity, I completely stopped watching all movies/tv shows.
haven't seen a movie since like 2020 I'd say. no plans to even see another. nothing is interesting.
It's the movie equivalent of a roller coaster ride, so people see it because it's fun
- people use that statement as a criticism of modern cinema.

To close open threads you'd first need a plot, James.

These movies have threads?

The first doesn't really (and the thread they "re-opened" to connect the sequel is pretty bad), but the second one does leave a couple things open.
In general, the second one does improve a bit on the criticisms of the first movie. Not enough to make it great or special IMO, but at least it's a bit better.
- Yeah the story isn't that great, I had many questions that weren't answered. It was worth to watch it at the theater for the visuals, but the story was mediocre at best
Lol seriously! Found out today that someone I'm loosely related to's husband was a big fan boy of this "universe(?)", right after I made a captain planet joke about them. I didn't say anything, but I was just thinking "there's been two movies and some mediocre games¿" Just like tilting my head sideways, mouth agape and all.

Don't threaten me with a good time.

These marketing campaigns are getting a bit extreme (and simultaneously really whiney)

movie trailer voice "See Avatar: Fire and Ash in theaters now, or else! "

" ...or else James Cameron is gonna be really sad, you guys, and he's gonna quit and just make a book, you guys. You guys!"

He says, as if he's not responsible for three out of four of the top grossing movies of all time...

The movies may be bland as all fuck, but the man knows how to put arses on cinema seats.

Not mine. The Avatar crap was too boring to even watch at home.
- You can't even watch it at home as intended. You'd need 3D (which is dead) and high frame rates for certain scenes (which aren't supported).

I realize I am a minority but I don't think they were bad movies, not anything groundbreaking special effects aside, but not bad

The water one had a dogshit story. How often did one of Jakes braindead children get themselves caught? 4? 5?

I wish other shows would do this TBH. I was really getting into The OA and it seemed like the show had a lot more to say when it was canceled before the final sseason. I'd take a book to wrap up the story line.

The only reason the first one was any good was because they copied the homework of Unreal. All world building after the first has been shit and people only watched the first because of 3d which was a massive flex at the time.

I mean, any story like that is basically just ripping off Dances with Wolves.

Hire George RR Martin to finish it.

There's more‽

Yeah, we had Forest Avatar and Ocean Avatar. Now we have Fire Avatar, which still leaves room for Earth Avatar and Wind Avatar before they have to go fight the space cats.
Each one will have the same story, but still get stretched to 4 hours.
- I couldn't make it past Papyrus Avatar

Don't threaten me with a good time

If he doesn't make a movie people want to watch, what makes him think he can write a book people will want to read?

Doesn't make enough money could still be hundreds of millions in profits.
Books don't require budgets that exceed those of cities.
Because it will be written in Papyrus font.

I like them. I think they're fun times, and anything I even kind of enjoy I'm really upset if it never gets resolved or ends in some way.

Like Jupiter's Legacy on Netflix. Sure it had questionable acting and effects, and maybe the story wasn't super well-written, but it had me invested and I was wanting to see what happened next.

If they do make it, then they get to feature the not airbenders for Avatar 4.

And then the Not Avatar will come to save the world in Avatar 5.

You don't think the 'not-airbenders' were the ones who lived in trees on floating mountains and rode giant flying things?
IMO it's the cave-dwelling Na'vi we're still missing.
- Eh, most of the Earth Kingdom lived on open mountains and cities.
  Do the humans count?
  Bonus points if the Na’vi inhabit it in Avatar 4. And call it Na Sing Se.
- I would have said desert or savannah/steppe

Disney keeps trying with Star Wars, failure after failure...so, why not? Avatar is a much better IP, at this point.

An absolutely blasphemous statement, and yet I can find no lies here.

The first few days of the opening are already sold out at my nearest theatre, so I don't think he's going to have a problem.

Maybe it's just me and my eyes are just shit (probably) but I saw the trailer in a theater recently and I feel like the visual effects haven't really advanced since the first one. Maybe that's intentional to keep a familiar visual identity across the franchise, maybe it's just a case of familiarity breeding contempt, but the first was supposed to be kind of a technical marvel, however now it fails to leave any impression or stand out and do anything new or special, in terms of visuals.

I think that's more of a reflection of the non-linear technological leaps rather than effort/creativity on the part of the filmmakers. No modern CGI films really wow me in the same way the big features from the 2000s did.
A lot of the advancements right now are "smaller" (or maybe "background") enhancements. That basically just add to the overall look but don't necessarily stand out on there own.
The first avatar was a 'generational' leap in cgi work and compositing etc. The 2nd is more 'iterative'
I'd suggest you check out Corridor Crew on Youtube - they have a series called VFX artists react where they check out the good (and bad) work done in movies. A couple which feature stuff from the Avatar movies.
The videos are relatively short (probably averages around 20 minutes), informative and entertaining.

Those films are weird in that I enjoy them while I'm sitting there, but the moment it finishes I couldn't name or describe a single one of the characters in it or any details of the plot.

It's because they messed up a fundamental principle of character design - we can tell real human faces apart because our brains are highly tuned to it, but with cartoons and CGI faces you need to really exaggerate differences to get them to stick in the mind. The Avatar team tried to go for some notion of realism instead, and tripped over their own feet with a lineup who are virtually indistinguishable from each other.

James Cameron needs to hire actual good story writers. He made an incredible world filled with potential, but he cannot write a story to save his life. It's the most generic shit ever filled with plot holes, humans invading? Drop all that.

Wasn't it supposed to be only 3 from start?

Pantera was Earth all along.

Pantera wasn't earth, water or fire, Pantera was the best element : Metal 🤘
You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!