Now at @aj@gts.sadauskas.id.au @aus.social

2y ago

Elon lied about the monkeys — and he shouldn't be trusted to put his Neuralink chips in human brains.

"They are claiming they are going to put a safe device on the market, and that's why you should invest," Ryan Merkley at the Physicians Committee, told Wired. "And we see his lie as a way to whitewash what happened in these exploratory studies."

Really heartbreaking reading what happened to the monkeys.

People quite rightly think of Elizabeth Holmes as a fraud for making false medical claims about what the Theranos machines could do. So why aren't Elon's claims at Neuralink being held to the same level of scrutiny?

https://futurism.com/neoscope/terrible-things-monkeys-neuralink-implants

@technology #Elon #Neuralink #ElonMusk

116 comments

anyone letting elon put a chip in their brain is a moron.
- Or desperate. Forget the investors, Elon lied to those who saw it as a last ditch effort to beat their diseases.
  
  Ah damn I didn't think of that. I feel for them, but elon is the last person they should trust for that. I don't honestly know who they should trust these days. But techbros aren't one of them.
- Yup. You have to be a special kind of trusting to allow a company to modify your brain.
  Banal attempts at mind control, crude as they are, are bad enough already.
  
  Honestly, interface chips in our brains would be a logical step at some point in the future. But hell would need to freeze, then thaw, then freeze over again before I trust anything of elons being inserted in my brain.
- @Holyginz @ajsadauskas
  It's the same people who think the covid vaccine puts a microchip in them. Go figure.
- Also known as republicans / conservatives
  
  i don't particularly wish torture on anyone but if any of his techbro dipshit followers want to sign up....
- Especially Elon but really any profit-driven, under-regulated entity.
- Maybe they need the brains of their patients to have fewer wrinkles and have been playing 5D chess this whole time to ensure that happens
Let's not pretend Musk has fucking clue what's going on or the science behind it.
He isn't down in trenches making discoveries. That's just the image he presents.
He buys companies and lets the actually competent people do the work while claiming credit.
He's been doing it since PayPal.
He's not a genius, he just has enough money to get actual geniuses to work for him.
- Someone put it well, if insensitively, about Sam Bankman Fried (FTX etc):
  Not actually smart but just LARP-ing the “Aspy genius” persona.
  However accurate that take is or offensive, I think it captures something about how nerd culture has gone mainstream and how it’s perceived.
  
  'nerd' has disappeared as an insult now that we're all on the computer all the time
- He buys companies and lets the actually competent people do the work while claiming credit.
  Sometimes he actively interferes with those competent people too.
- He buys companies and lets the actually competent people do the work while claiming credit.
  No he doesn't. He meddles and interferes constantly and convinces himself that he's adding value by doing so. That's why Neuralink is dangerous. Meta or Alphabet or Microsoft or whoever can be trusted to let the scientists and the legal team ensure there's very little risk of everything blowing up in their face horribly. Elon's little empire is constantly on the verge of an absolute disaster. I would not be remotely surprised if Neuralink messes everything up so much that it sets back brain implants and BCI's in general by decades. Purely because Elon can't just supply the people at his businesses with the tools they need then get out of their way.
  
  I'm hoping this becomes another Chernobyl type incident where instead of people being against nuclear energy, it's people against brain implants over the fear of how dangerous they are. At least for the implants that are not made specifically as medical devices that help instead of dumb people down with forced ads and memes.
- @Lmaydev @ajsadauskas
  Peter Thiel sacked him as a PayPal boss?
  He didn't "invent" Paypal.
  
  It was formed by merging his company X with Confinity. All he did was profit off it but many people seem to think he created it.
@ajsadauskas @technology
I was astounded to read Neuralink is to be permitted to experiment on humans. Instead they should have any animal experiment licences revoked.
- @raymccarthy
  Why? We already have brain interface links that do similar damage to neuralink, this isnt unusual or unexpected. In its current form it is rightfully used on terminal patients with locked-in syndom. In other words, people before it damaged their brain in a meaningful way and whom cant be further paralyzed.
  It would give these people a chance at someinteraction with the real world... What happened with the monkeys was about in line with other neural interfaces, its a consequence of the limits of the tech not negligence.
  @ajsadauskas @technology
  
  I hear the full self driving mode of the brain chips come out next year.
  
  @freemo @ajsadauskas @technology
  If there are already such implants why licence a company that seems less than, um, straight.
Headline:
TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPENED TO MONKEYS AFTER GETTING NEURALINK IMPLANTS, ACCORDING TO VETERINARY RECORDS
What are these terrible things?
Up to a dozen monkeys suffered grisly fates after receiving a Neuralink implant, including brain swelling and partial paralysis.
First is the case of the monkey "Animal 20." In December 2019, an internal part of the brain implant being inserted into the primate "broke off" during surgery. Later that night, the monkey scratched at the implant site, drawing blood, and yanked on the implant, partially dislodging it. Follow-up surgery discovered that the wound was infected, but that the placement of the implant prevented treatment. The monkey was euthanized the next month.
Before that, a female monkey designated "Animal 15" began to press her head against the ground after receiving the brain implant, pick at the site until it bled, and eventually lost coordination, shivering when personnel entered the room. Scientists discovered she had brain bleeding, and in March 2019, she too was euthanized.
The following year, a primate called "Animal 22" was put down in March 2020 after its brain implant became so loose that the screws attaching it to the skull "could easily be lifted out," according to a necropsy report.
"The failure of this implant can be considered purely mechanical and not exacerbated by infection," the necropsy states.
As Wired notes, that statement alone seemingly contradicts Musk's claims that no monkeys directly died from Neuralink brain implants.
And so would the account of an ex-Neuralink employee, who told Wired that Musk's claims that the monkeys were already terminally ill are "ridiculous," even a "straight-up fabrication."
"We had these monkeys for a year or so before any surgery was performed," the ex-employee said.
The testimony of an anonymous scientist conducting research at CNPRC seems to corroborate the ex-employee's allegations.
"These are pretty young monkeys," they told the magazine. "It's hard to imagine these monkeys, who were not adults, were terminal for some reason."
- Not only are monkeys as intelligent as small kids. All monkey species are at least a thousand times as rare as humans.
  These experiments sound like they've been done by people who don't know what they're doing?
  
  Unfortunately, these experiments are being performed by people who know EXACTLY what they're doing. We're not in the 1940s any more. Fucking hell. If I had the personal power, I'd gladly rain holy hellfire upon these wholly inexcusable, inexorable, inexcrimentinable human fecal chunks.
- What the hell. I feel bad for reading that, holy crap. That's some nightmare fuel.
Elon fanboys should be lining up to try this, right?
- Yeah, the dumbest and worst people will be dying to get this. I don't see a problem
- Which is why I'm totally okay with it being allowed. If you're stupid enough to get one then maybe we don't need you around anymore.
- Holy shit, please have them sign up in record numbers! This could turn out to be a service to humanity.
- is it possible and or legal to sign up maliciously?
- Some, perhaps many will, and without a second thought.
Whenever I see these Musk posts, I always think the title can usually be reduced to 3 or 4 words. In this case, "Elon shouldn't be trusted".
- Also true.
- 'Elon CAN'T be trusted.'
- Just curious, did this comment originate from mastodon? (Reading this on Lemmy).
  
  @Obi #Mastodon
- Heh.
I think Elmo should just volunteer himself.
Elon is already dreaming up ways to blame his human test subjects for his failures after they die horrifically from infections, brain bleeds, seizures, and psychosis.
- @ajsadauskas @TrismegistusMx I’m guessing something like: “The human test subjects were always going to die (eventually), with or without the brain implant”
  
  "We were experimenting on the elderly and homeless, so we were statistically bound to lose patients due to their expectant mortality!
I feel like this is all a given. How they're legally able to proceed with human testing is just baffling to me.
Rather than admit his crappy submarine wouldn't work after an expert diver told him, he called them a pedophile.
You'd be insane to listen to a guy who publicly refuses to listen to advice
Doesnt that guy lie about everything?
- Everyone needs to start treating him with Bizarro rules.
@ajsadauskas @technology
Elon has a history of lying that's as rich as he was before he bought Twitter.
What's going on with all these @ tags
- Mastodon users .
  
  That's probably one of the biggest cancers of mastodon at the moment; because of the near-useless search functionality, you have to spam hashtags everywhere. Thankfully it's being patched out but for the time being it's just something you have to put up with.
  
  First time I've seen a post from that side of the verse. This seems pointless and harder to read than standard Lemmy 😅 I'm assuming the mastadon UI makes it make more sense.
- Mastodon thread I am guessing..hadn't seen that on lemmy before.
  
  Same. I was pretty confused. Definitely more a fan of Reddit style (Lemmy) than Twitter style (Mastodon).
  
  Oh damn lol. I was so confused.
@ajsadauskas @technology I was just going to ask the Theranos/Holmes question.
- Once he'll start losing investors' money his lies will catch up to him. Nobody's asking questions as long as line goes up.
  
  It depends on how much money he needs. Investors lost faith in Tesla once, and Elon invested in the company himself
  
  @jonne @rood
  What makes you think that?
  tRump's lies have been exposed, and the media is still pushing him as a savior.
  They're doing the same with Melon Husk.
- Theranos went down because Holmes was trying to run the same tired start-up scam all the big boys pull but within the confines of the medical industry. She would have succeeded if she had picked something non medical. The FDA doesn't fuck around. If Elon thinks he's smart enough to pull the same shit he's going to "find out" too.
  
  I really, really hope this is the case. I’d love to see him pay some serious consequences, especially if it’s the result of his own arrogance.
  
  Supposedly the FAA doesn't fuck around and yet he managed quite alright with SpaceX, cf https://www.techwontsave.us/episode/186_spacexs_regulatory_evasion_has_consequences_w_eric_roesch
He's a lying piece of shit. Full stop.
I say let him do that and then let congress legislate this once the grim details of how the human subjects died creates a scandal and political unity across the aisle. It's the American Way®
- I'm not keen on letting people die just to test how much that level of money can minimize consequences
  
  I don't think many people are but enough are and they're the ones with political influence. Not to defend Elizabeth Homes but why Elon Musk gets away with it is sexism, and being able to deliver on the odd promise then highlighting that success to cover for his failures. He's done much worse but he's given a pass because he presents the image of a male entrepreneur. Maybe not you or I but enough of those people with political influence are sexist and that's why the hammer came down on Homes. They both deserve to face justice but only one did.
Chip Elon and put him through what he put the monkeys through. Same conditions.
- Chip him and send him to Mars.
  Make him drive to the launchpad in a Model X on full "auto pilot" too
  
  Rename him Xelon Musx
- nah just fire him into the sun already ✨
@ajsadauskas @technology
We should have stopped Dr Evil before he got his phony doctorate.
@ajsadauskas @autolycos @technology Because he has the most money. Because any who should hold him accountable have their hand in his pocket. Because he has government contracts with every single one of his businesses. He is a monster created by those who are supposed to protect us from the monsters. It is not remotely possible to control him. He is the worst case scenario.
@ajsadauskas @technology
Didn't we already go through this with Whatsername and her fake blood tests?
- Didn't we already go through this with Whatsername and her fake blood tests?
  Maybe read more than the title before commenting? I know, it's a novel concept.
  People quite rightly think of Elizabeth Holmes as a fraud for making false medical claims about what the Theranos machines could do. So why aren't Elon's claims at Neuralink being held to the same level of scrutiny?
  
  I mean, to answer their question, yes.
  I suspect they were well aware of that and were being tongue-in-cheek.
  
  Monke forget.
@ajsadauskas @technology
That's horrible, and also confirms what I said just the other day, who would trust him putting an implant in your brain, not me, and I already have brain damage.
- @ajsadauskas @technology
  Also does this remind of some news not that far back about the doomed titanic sub, similar story, ignorance of reality, shortcuts, and then failure.
  Same thing, and he wants to test with people, this is just crazy, he should never be given the right to do so.
  
  @trelord75 @ajsadauskas @technology
  Thai caves sub proposal was crazy.
  
  @ajsadauskas @technology
  Yeah I'm regularly missing words these days, your brain should fill them in as they aren't important words really, just link filler ones to make it sound right.
  Ah well, what can I do, constantly edit everything I guess, but I get lazy.
- @ajsadauskas @technology
  In this thread, I talked about it.
  https://aus.social/@trelord75/111109157291609840
- I wouldn't trust a sandwich made by one of his companies.
The government convicted Michael Vick after they found out what happened to his dogs. Same government turning a blind eye to Elon's monkeys and giving him a green light to experiment on humans. Elon playing through capitalism in god mode RN.
- There's an explicit law against dogfighting though.
  
  What are you trying to say, law enforcement would take down Elon's lab if only there were laws against animal abuse?
This is literally Ryujin Industries.
@ajsadauskas @technology
The only reason something happened to Deep Voice Barbie was because some Very Important People were publicly embarrassed by their association with, and gullibility of her.
- Note to self: great idea for throwaway gag in inevitable sequel.
@ajsadauskas @technology
A bombastic dabbler, a monkey Mengele, not a serious scientist.
@ajsadauskas @technology Holmes is female with less support. Musk is rich male with lots of "bros".
God is coming
@ajsadauskas @technology
Pure evil.
:mastodon:
@ajsadauskas @technology The same with #AI and #Fusion reactors, everybody know they are lying but banksters like them. They are all men fraudsters.
@ajsadauskas @technology Musk is trash.

116 comments