We are not our emotions
We are not our emotions
We are not our emotions
"I am sad" doesn't at all mean that sadness is my defining characteristic. It usually means sadness is a temporary state.
Non-linguists trying themselves at linguistics always often come up with pseudo facts like this.
For normal people yes, for people who lack emotional regulation, "I am sad" can be an identity because you might get stuck in it for years at a time. Decades.
I think the author here is speaking to those people more than just your average joe who could care less about the distinction between state and characteristic because they understand the difference already.
But like my depression isn't caused by thinking "I am depressed" is my identity itscauseed by uncontrollable environmental factors. It sounds good for normal people but it won't help the people its meant to. If you think you can fix my sadness because of my experience w discrimination in pretty much every part of my life by js changing the way I identify with sadness go ahead but like good luck is all I'm saying.
Language does shape how we think, so it's possible that saying it that way has a subconscious effect. I guess.
Without a doubt.
Language and how we specifically say things are huge. It's why we are big pushing to redefine a host of things now.
We are meant to use "I feel" statements instead of indirectly blaming others with you statements. Using more specific pronouns to avoid little harms that can build up. To say more specific and less derogatory things like unhoused or inclusive things like people of color. It all adds up.
This won't be the solution or the cure for depression but every little bit helps. If you have depression and are stuck, the making a small differentiation that you FEEL sad instead of BEING sad can be just enough to get you in gear for that day at least. That can be huge.
I doubt it. I'm not depressed because I use the language "I am sad/depressed/" its uncontrollable environmental factors. I imagine its similar for anyone with lasting similar conditions like anxiety etc
Translating, conjugating and undestanding "To Be" is always fraught with peril. :)
I mostly agree with you, but I do find it interesting how some languages and therefore cultures account for things like this. I saw a Sunn M’Cheaux video about it and it was super interesting!
Fundamental misunderstanding of English.
"I am sad" -- am here is a copula. It indicates a link between the subject (I) and subject-complement (sad). In this case, it's saying "subject (I) has property (sad)." It does not equate the subject and subject-complement.
Not all languages work like this. In Mandarin for instance, 我是伤心* (wǒ (I) shì (am) shāngxīn (sad)) would be seen as grammatically incorrect or at least weird. This would literally mean "I am sad" (adjectives in Mandarin operate as stative verbs, so the correct way to say this is without a copula -- i.e. 我很伤心 (wǒ (I) hěn (quite/very) shāngxīn (sad)). (You could drop the 很 (quite), and just say 我伤心, but the connotation in this case is that you're setting up for a juxtaposition, e.g. "I'm sad, you're not sad."))
As a Spanish native I was very surprised when I learnt that "soy" and "estoy" both are translated as "I am" in English.
You can either be something because it is something inherent to your being "I am a happy person" or be something at this moment "I am happy". Both are expressed by the same verb, but mean very different things. In Spanish it would be "Soy una persona feliz" and "Estoy feliz".
I will say, as someone who lived through chronic pain for years, saying I have pain, rather than saying I'm in pain feels quite distinct and... Less hopeless? You're not incorrect, you're just not recognizing the impact and power words can have. There are whole therapies that specialize in reshaping our narratives, despite "I am sad" and "I feel sad" essentially meaning the same thing grammatically.
"In pain", to me implies that it's happening right now, where as "having pain" is a long term thing.
If it helps you to view language this way, then I think that's great. But you should also recognize that yours is not a universal understanding of what's connoted by this grammatical structure.
I really sympathize with chronic pain, as I also suffer chronic pain. But for me, I don't think changing the words I use would really help me.
That's true. 'I am tall' ≠ "I am height"
You are grammatically right. But in practice the fact that am has also the meaning of equating the subject to the object puts the idea in people's head (at some degree, unconsciously, at least) that they equate to what they feel.
Fundamental understanding of communication.
This post is communicating that we are not our emotions, and that they are a state that passes. it's just using language as a metaphor.
I'm sorry for being cheeky, i couldn't resist. But thank you for the explanation, i did not know that. Is it the same thing when i say "this is my best friend" but i obviously don't mean i own them?
yes, the posessive in english indicates many things, and one possibility is ownership. It can also indicate a link or relationship that is not ownership -- as a child I never thought I owned "my father."
Just bugs me when people look at one meaning of a word or grammatical construction and then assume that's the only meaning.
I agree that we are not our emotions, and I think that's a useful idea to conveny. But I think OOP's take on English grammar is gravely misinformed. Imagine if she had a similar take about a language she didn't know well; she'd be rightly criticized by native speakers.
Unless those differences have different words, this is more a linguist difference than a difference of feelings created by it inside people.
We need an "iam14andthisisdeep" on Lemmy.
I’m unfortunately closer to “iam40andthisisdeep”
Stay wholesome please
I've seen a recent uptick in deepish thoughts. This is a prime example of that.
But, hey, if it gets you through...
So depression is on me as well?
Like tar, if we peel it off your skin will come off too.
Yeah, man. You just gotta take it off like a coat. No big deal.
In learning about this online, one thing led to another and I found out about "amaetemo iidesuka" 甘えてもいいですか? (can I relax and be my vulnerable self around you?)
This is a combination of how the Celtic languages do possessive sentences and the very common European metaphor for "having" a feeling
Basically Irish (among with many other languages) don't have a word for have, instead they use the phrasing "X is at Y", where X is the thing being had and Y is the haver. This ties in with the metaphor of "having" a feeling, which can be seen in the English "I have a desire to..." or the German "Ich habe Hunger"
English | French | Literal French | Spanish | Literal Spanish | Japanese | (Sorta) Literal Japanese |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
I'm hungry | J'ai faim | I have hunger | Tengo hambre O Estoy hambriento/a | I have hunger OR I am (temporarily) hungry | Onaka ga suita | Regarding stomach: empty |
I'm angry | Je suis fâché | I am angry | Estoy enojado/a | I am (temporarily) angry | Watashi wa okotte imasu | Regarding me: angry is |
I'm cold | J'ai froid | I have cold | Tengo frio | I have cold | Samui OR Samuidesu | Cold OR It's cold |
I'm scared | J'ai peur | I have fear | Estoy asustado/a | I am (temporarily) scared | Kowai OR Watashi wa kowaidesu | Scary OR Regarding me: scared/scary is |
I'm brave | Je suis courageux | I'm brave (courageous) | Soy valiente | I am (permanently) brave | Watashi wa yūkan'na | Regarding me: brave |
Languages are fun. French switches between "I have" and "I am" for these sorts of things. Spanish mostly uses "I am" but it has two versions of "I am", one that's used generally for more permanent states of things, one that's used for more temporary states. As a result, "I'm scared but I'm brave" uses one for the temporary condition of being scared, but one for the more permanent condition of being brave.
Japanese has its own whole system that is so different from English that it's hard to directly translate. In japanese "wa" marks the topic of a sentence, and can often be omitted if it's obvious. So you could just say "cold" or "brave" if it's obvious you're talking about yourself, or you can say "Watashi wa" which sort-of translates as "regarding me" or "about me". The particle "wa" is something used in Japanese to mark the topic of a sentence. Japanese doesn't have verb-person agreement, so there's no "I am", "you are", "he is". There's instead something vaguely like "regarding me: is" If you wanted to tell someone they were brave you'd change the topic of the sentence to them and say "Anata wa yūkan'na".
Japanese also uses the same word for "scary" and "scared" so you need contextual clues or other words to differentiate between "I am scared" vs. "I am scary". There's a different Japanese particle "ga" that is similar but has a narrower focus. Instead of the whole sentence being about something, it's just the previous word. So, I'm hungry becomes "my stomach is empty" but more literally: "specifically regarding stomach: empty".
None of this really makes any logical sense. Languages are weird, and the things that are the most commonly said are the weirdest. What does "I am hungry" really mean, that I am the very definition of hunger? That whole condition changes when you eat a sandwich? What does "I have fear" mean? I have it in a basket? Does "I feel fear" mean that I can sense its texture with my fingers? In English we mostly "are" things like hunger or fear. But, for some reason it's "I have a feeling" Now it's like the other European languages where feelings are something you have, not something you are.
This guy languages.
How about German? Being the other main language behind the drunk hodgepodge that is English, it's worth looking into that
German also mixes it a fair bit. Following merc's table in order:
#4 uses haben (to have) + noun; #2 and #5 use sein (to be) + adjective.
For #1 you'll typically see the noun + haben. Adjective + sein is perfectly viable, but a bit less common, and I feel like it leans towards metaphoric usage; e.g. «ich bin hungrig nach Liebe», literally "I'm hungry for love".
#3 uses the dative instead, it's roughly "it's cold for me". If you use "ich bin kalt", you'll convey that your temperature is low, not that you're feeling cold.
Being the other main language behind the drunk hodgepodge that is English
That's inaccurate.
To keep it short, the situation between English, Dutch and German is a lot like the situation between Romance languages: they have a common origin (West Germanic), one isn't from the other. And while English got bits and bobs of vocab due to Norse and Norman influence, vocab is rather superficial, and most oddities of the language were born in the islands.
This table is a good example. English is basically adjectivising almost everything physiological and emotional, while both German and the Romance languages would use a mix of adjectives and nouns instead. (With the Romance languages typically preferring nouns, but that isn't a hard rule.)
Yeah, I ran out of columns. I looked at it and it's somewhere between English and one of the Romance languages.
I'm scared but I'm brave is "Ich habe Angst, aber ich bin mutig" -> I have fear but I am brave
Personally, I wouldn't use "regarding" for "ga" as you did. I think that's more for "wa."
Yeah, I don't know of a better way of indicating "ga", if you do let me know and I'll update it.
Spanish is somewhat similar. Scared isn’t something you are, it’s something you have (tengo miedo, lit. ‘I have fear’). Emotions are also ‘put on you’ instead of making you a certain way. Ex: me puso feliz translates as ‘it made me happy,’ but literally is ‘it put happiness on me.’
Also, Spanish has two main verbs for "to be". There's "ser", which is used for things that are inherent (e.g.: "Yo soy de Mexico" means "I am from Mexico"). But then there's also "estar", which is used for the current state of things, or a temporary status (e.g.: "Yo estoy enfermo" means "I am sick (in my current state)").
German (if I'm remembering right from my high school language class days), does the same thing as well. It's not 'I am hungry', it's 'I have hunger'.
(If there's any actual German readers/speakers and I misspoke, I apologize. This was almost 15 years ago at this point!)
Yes but it is "I am sad"
I believe this is just about which word a language uses to say that an adjective applies to a noun. While 'to be' is very popular for this, 'to have' is quite common too. Mandarin uses 'very'.
It's a bit deeper - in Spanish and other Romance languages, emotions and physiological states are typically conveyed by a noun, not by an adjective. Like in Catoblepas' example "tengo miedo", it's literally "I have fear"; miedo is a noun. You could use one of the two copulas by forcing an adjective, but it'll change the meaning:
there are exceptions, like "feliz" (happy; adjective).
my native language does something similar, but the verbs don't match well.
...no? In the literal examples given in the post, they would be translated as english
I'm sad: estoy triste I'm anxious: estoy ansioso/a
That’s why I said somewhat similar and gave different examples than the ones in the OP. The non-literal language involved in talking about emotions being different between language groups in some situations was interesting to me.
Purge emotions, replace with a Dreadnaught level artillery cannon.
This is one of those things where it's not that deep.
This is quite romantic, and I agree that we should be aware of our emotions as temporary, as clouds in the sky. However, the Irish language has not prevented the Irish people from having some of the highest rates of anxiety on Earth https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/anxiety-disorders-prevalence
Yeah we have that in English, too. We use the word “feel”. 🙄
The things English does with the word "feel" should be illegal.
You don't get to use the same word for having profound internal emotions AND to rub your grubby hands on things. That's just not right.
Well I might feel if you put your grubby hands on my things
So do other romance languages. In Spanish the "siento" word has a very similar meaning and is used very similarly. It applies to both of your examples.
I feel like there's no issue with the use :)
French is even weirder with "sentir".
For feelings, french usually uses a reflexive form: "je me sens triste" (I feel sad). That's the easy part.
Now the real fun is that you can say stuff like "je sens tes pieds", and it could mean "I can feel (touch) your feet" or "I can smell your feet", or even both at the same time.
If you're bipolar you definitely are your emotions.
Does "This car is fast" mean the car is the abstract concept of having higher velocity? Does it mean the car is permanently moving fast or it has not and will not stop?
yes it means that.
absolutely.
See, you start reading too much into grammar this way and then you learn about how Spanish uses their "to be" equivalent and have a massive existential crisis.
Even beyond just emotions, in Portuguese the "be" verb can be translated into two different verbs: "ser" and "estar". They are two complete separate things - so separate that English classes kinda turned the "to be" verb into a meme due to how long it takes to teach Portuguese speakers to use it and understand what it means in each sentence.
"Ser": to be someone who is something. Usually more permanent, but not necessarily.
"Estar": to be in the state of something. Usually more temporary, but also applies to permanent states.
Some examples showing how the meaning of some expressions change depending on which verb you use:
You are sick "Ser": you are a sick (twisted/evil) person. "Estar": you have caught some sickness.
You are sad "Ser": life has made you sad in general. "Estar": you're feeling sad right now.
You are beautiful: "Ser": you are a beautiful person. "Estar": you are looking great today.
You're good at this: "Ser": literal, you're good at this. "Estar": implies being good is not the default but you have reached the point of being good at this.
**you're funny drunk": "Ser": when you're drunk you are funny. "Estar": you are drunk now and this time you turned out to be funny while drunk. Or, in this point of your life you're funny when you're drunk.
it's cold there: "Ser": that is a cold place. "Estar": that place is cold right now.
it's cold there now "Ser": it's like saying that winters in that place used to be mild but nowadays winter there can get pretty cold "Estar": that place is cold right now.
Little trick, anything that you would use "estar" in romance languages aka Portuguese, use "feel" instead of "be", it's just as valid and there's less misunderstandings.
Also, for your examples, you would never interpret "you are sad" as ser, since ser describes adjectives, it's always estar. Your ser version would be "you are a sad person" aka "eres un triste" (in Spanish).
lol no? we say "i am sad", not "i am sadness". that'd be weird.
The same language rules are used for control/ownership of objects as well. A book is on you, (or with you), as is your car and your clothes.
That said, the concepts in english aren't foreign or lost in translation. When the language became more than a tool for people to communicate, miscommunications start happening.
The English word depressed comes from Latin roots and means pushed down. An old Norse term for the same condition was called hugsott, which translates directly into thought-sick. To me the latter term is more useful because the person suffering has the chance to change his own thoughts, while the former term implies that the condition is caused by factors outside the person's control.
Both can be true, though.
Super douchy.
"I am experiencing this emotion"
sapir-whorf, annoyingly, strikes again
So, like an enema ?
This is half-true. Both versions are acceptable for most, possibly all emotions.
Eg 'fearg' is anger, which would be on you. "tá fearg orm" ~ Anger is on me
'feargach' is angry, which you can be. "táim feargach" ~ i am angry
In English it is usually stated as I feel lonely or sad. Most English speakers take this for granted. They don't think people are sad, but that they are feeling sad.
I like to use acting like when talking about negative behaviors to not define the person as a negative emotion. You are acting like a douche for instance as opposed to you are a douche.
That's a good technique. I'm gonna steal that.