OK, not to be runde or anything, but why is your banner AI generated

If I drew something myself, those artists would also not be paid. I can understand a deontological argument against using AI trained on people's art, but for me, the utilitarian argument is much stronger -- don't use AI if it puts an artist out of work.

Real artists use uncited reference art all the time. That person that drew a picture of Catherine the Great for a video game certainly didn't list the artist of the source art they were looking at when they drew it. No royalties went to that source artist. People stopped buying reference art books for the most part when Google image search became a thing.

A hell, a lot of professional graphic artists right now use AI for inspiration.

This isn't to say that the problem isn't real and a lot of artists stand to lose their livelihood over it, but nobody's paying someone to draw a banner for this forum. The best you're going to get is some artist doing out of the goodness of their heart when they could be spending their time and effort on a paying job.

Even outside of capitalist exploitation, AI generated art suffers from an inherent creative limitation. It’s a derivative and subtractive tool. It can only remix what already exists.

There's little evidence that this is fundamentally different from how our own minds work. We are influenced by our environment, and experiences. The art we create is a product of our material conditions. If you look at art from different eras you can clearly see that it's grounded in the material reality people live in. Furthermore, an artist can train the AI on their own style, as the video linked in the article shows with a concrete use case. That allows the artists to automate the mechanical work of producing the style they've come up with.

It lacks intention and human experience that make art meaningful.

That's what makes it a tool. A paintbrush or an app like Krita also lacks intention. It's the human using the tool that has the idea that they want to convey, and they use the tool to do that. We see this already happening a lot with memes being generated using AI tools. A few examples here. It's a case of people coming up with ideas and then using AI to visualize them so they can share them with others.

This is why a crude MS Paint drawing or a hastily made meme can resonate more than a “flawless” AI generated piece.

If we're just talking about pressing a button and getting an image sure. However, the actual tools like ComfyUI have complex workflows where the artist has a lot of direction over every detail that's being generated. Personally, I don't see how it's fundamentally different from using a 3D modelling tool like Blender or a movie director guiding actors in execution of the script.

I can see some applications of AI generation for the more mundane aspects of creation, like the actions panel in Photoshop.

Right, I think that's how these tools will be used professionally. However, there are also plenty of people who aren't professionals, and don't have artistic talent. These people now have a tool to flesh out an idea in their heads which they wouldn't have been able to do previously. I see this as a net positive. The examples above show how this can be a powerful tool for agitation, satire, and political commentary.

Those tools still require direct engagement with the creative process

So do tools like ComfyUI, if you look at the workflow, it very much resembles these tools.

the argument that the photographer composes a shot and manipulating light. In contrast to AI which automates the creative act itself

I do photography and I disagree here. The photographer looks at the scene, they do not create the scene themselves. The skill of the photographer is in noticing interesting patterns of light, objects, and composition in the scene that are aesthetically appealing. It's the skill of being able to curate visually interesting imagery. Similarly, what the AI does is generate the scene, and what the human does is curate the content that's generated based on their aesthetic.

AI doesn’t teach someone to draw, operate a camera, paint, reiterate, conceptualize, and develop artistic judgment. It lets them skip those steps entirely resulting in outputs that are aesthetically polished and creatively hollow. True democratization would mean empowering people to create.

Again, AI is a tool and it doesn't magically remove the need for people to develop an aesthetic, to learn about lighting, composition, and so on. However, you're also mixing in mechanical skills like operating the camera which have little to do with actual art. These tools very much do empower people to create, but to create something interesting still takes skill.

I think, ultimately, AI-generated images have their own utility, but fundamentally cannot replace human art as an expression of the human experience and artist intent through their chosen medium. AI-generated textures for, say, wooden planks in a video game does little to nothing to change the end-user's experience, but just asking AI to create a masterpiece of art fundamentally lacks the artistic process that makes art thought provoking and important. It isn't even about being produced artisinally or mass-produced, it's fundamentally about what art is to begin with, and what makes it resonate.

AI cannot replace art. AI can make the more mundane and tedious aspects of creation smoother, it can be a part of a larger work of art, or it can be used in a similar way to stock images. At the same time, just like AI chatbots are no replacement for human interaction, AI can't replace human art. It isn't a matter of morality, or something grander, it's as simple as AI art just being a tool for guessing at what the user wants to generate, and thus isn't capable of serving the same function for humanity as art in the traditional sense.

I always like your posts when I see them here, so I really do value your perspective on this.

Artists do labor for free for the benefit of their communities all the time, myself included, mostly out of the goodness of their hearts. Although maybe Lemmy can offer some compensation if they want to commission something. Tbh, I've never approached someone or an organization and said, "hey, I think you should change your logo/banner/whatever, want me to make a better one?" I think that's a bit forward.

Not correct if ran locally

The artist you would have paid would have consumed more water than a query

I wonder how many people died because someone generated a silly banner.

Yes, I'm aware that the Luddites weren't stupid and purely anti-tech. However, labor movements became far more successful when they didn't attack machinery, but directly organized against capital.

GenAI exists. We can download models and run them locally, and use green energy. We can either let capitalists have full control, or we can try to see if we can use these tools to our advantage too. We don't have the luxury of just letting the ruling class have all of the tools.

Fair point, but I do think that until we see more widespread adoption of renewables in the US and other heavy-polluters, energy use in general is a hot topic we are already beyond capacity for. There needs to be a real qualitative leap to green energy some point soon, and we can't just rely on the PRC to electrify the world if the US is intent on delaying that shift as much as possible.

Can you share the model, the input parameters and the seed?

So you're here for less than a day and you're already judging? First rule of the fediverse, you can go make your own community

If you want to get philosophical, all art is plagiarism, derived from the inspiration of others.

Lemmy honestly tends to run on the ideas of "be the change you want to see in the world" and "well volunteered".
Stick a post up, see if people are interested.
You could message the mods. While they don't seem to have posted for a while, there are mod actions happening still.
And if you don't hear anything back, put it as a suggestion to the admins.

I think your point was AI is bad.

Mine was does it matter if it's bad.

I don't think my earlier reply came through. I'll try rewriting it.

AI can add, remove, change or refine input, either text or image-based, either wholly or partially, which may or may not itself be AI-generated. That feature set certainly allows room for genuine, inspired artistic expression. The way you describe AI art is as though it is all created by asking ChatGPT to draw you something. This isn't the case, and neglects to consider the litany of AI model types that are fundamentally different to LLM's. Models which are operated by humans directly interacting with them in a range of ways.

Let's say you're a concept artist for a movie. After replacing you with AI, how does the company instruct the model in the concept to be represented? If they're just asking ChatGPT to come up with something itself, then sure - your description applies. And the output will be shitty concept art, and the movie will shittier than it otherwise would be. People might consume it, but it would be a slippery slope towards failure either because a) people don't like it, or don't like it enough for it to reach the critical mass required to spread, or b) someone else does the same uninspired and easy job more cheaply or effectively. If you're an AI-slop consumer, why watch AI slop movies when you can just watch AI slop Tiktoks?

Good art resonates with people not because humans are easily entertained by pretty flashing lights or whatever an AI can churn out, but because of their relationship to a piece of art which is derived from their human experience. Companies have tried to broaden appeal and lower costs by appealing to the lowest common denominator for centuries, but beyond a certain point it is a failing business model. In my opinion, if some companies want to try, let them find out why there are 1000s of AI-generated movie trailers but no movies.

I think that AI can be used for the concept art in a way that maintains artistic integrity and capacity for artistic expression by having someone skilled in representing visual concepts operate the AI tool. That someone would be for all intents and purposes an artist. In essence the artist position would not be redundant; the way their job is done would have changed.

Yes I do. Although I don't use text generation for writing creative pieces I use it for coding and help in the Linux terminal. It's not like I was going to pay anyone to do that for me.

Performative politics have been proven to have a paralyzing effect on people. If you feel you're doing something and it has no impact, you just disengage from meaningful politics because you already absolved yourself.