Score one for atheism!
Score one for atheism!
150 comments
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Nobody said reality was all smiles and rainbows. However, it’s entirely possible to find happiness without believing in fairy tales so you can sleep at night.
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Im an atheist and I listen to The Lord of the Rings audiobook so I can sleep at night. Reality is fucking awful and I like my fairy tales.
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Yes! Exactly this! So many atheists love fantasy and sci-fi. Why not? It is wonderful to have some magic in the world. We just know the stuff is made-up.
If those who share such things with us, demand crazy shit from us, we call that out for being toxic fandom or corporate enshittification and go away, if we please. In religions, that is just another day.
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And her son completely failed to demonstrate any of that. She presumably spent her life trying to take care of her kid, (the quality of which can only be guessed at, but she cared enough to listwn to his points about atheism) and as soon as her child shows her a new way of thinking he completely abandons her without giving her any ways of handling it.
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And also I don't see how life looks better while believing in a greater power. Starting with people going to war and desolation all the time in the name of their god...
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It's possible but unfortunately when people have spent their entire lives with religion being their (seemingly) only source of happiness, it can be really hard for them to find a different source.
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To be honest, I don't think a lot of people are ready. It's a hard thing to deconstruct your faith and if you're not careful it can take you to some really dark places. For a lot of people it's the way they find meaning and solace in a world of pain. Ultimately if you can find that comfort without tying it to religion that's better but not everyone can. That's my take on it post-deconversion
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It's more of a generational issue, really. Convincing someone who was already indoctrinated as a baby and began to "pray" as early as their arm coordination allowed it is almost cruel, really. At that point it's reality-shattering. Let alone if your religion included any kind of body-modification, especially without anesthesia (that shit burns itself into the very fabric of your brain as a baby). In that case it's even worse, as it'd entail the realisation that your body has been violated (some may use stronger wording).
At the end of the day what counts is that you're a decent person, no matter your stance on religion or spirituality.
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I mean the boomers were the hippie generation so really its only the silent generation that really as a matter of course had that indoctrination and the youngest of them is in their eighties. For those below eighty its about being raised in a culture that can keep you insulated enough to not watch media or meet many people not like yourself.
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Not to offend you but tbh I hate this thought process and imo this smells of superiority complex "peasants are just not ready for reality yet". The peasants are actually really smart and humans are very good at adapting and changing their world model given appropriate motivation.
The world is absolutely ready to rid itself of religion.
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Also, it really just depends on your age. Have you believed for decades? Not believing at some point in your life will be some kind of earth shaking change.
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I try not to be too judgemental of people who are religious. We are not evolved enough as a species to be able to comprehend the unknown or unknowable, and everyone to some degree has to cope with this somehow, even if we aren't consciously aware of it. Faith is an easy, convenient and catch-all solution to all of life's unexplained phenomena, so it makes sense that people tend to gravitate towards it naturally, all it takes is a little push during childhood.
I take issue with it when religious folk try to force their views onto other people. Proselytizing is one thing, but converting people by duress or force, or by weaponizing the government apparatus to conform to their views and their views only, is where I stop caring about the feelings of those religious cults and do everything in my power to stop them or undermine their efforts.
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Sure, but the sooner they start, the better off they'll be.
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Soo what is the message here? Atheists are incel neckbeard basement dwellers and god is as real as one of their mother?
Edit: Oh wait I misread the comic in the most funny way! I read it as "my mum god" as if he stopped believing in his mum as a deity. Tired brain plays weird tricks.
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Soo what is the message here?
That proselytizing about atheism without considering the needs and character of your audience can be just as bad as religion doing the same.
Love is more important than being right, and the son in the comic very clearly didn't show any. As soon as he proved his point, he left to go celebrate with his friends rather than spend time with his mother. He failed to show her that just because there is no big sky god doesn't mean that is no love.
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That no matter how righteous you believe you are, there are ramifications to your actions with religion. It's very easy to understand and be comfortable with those beliefs, but with others you are quite literally messing with their identities who they are.
My family is deeply religious. I personally don't care if they believe in God or not. I focus on individual teachings, that gay people aren't evil, that they can be religious and believe contradictory things to what others believe, that it's all deeply personal
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Faces of Atheism was considered pretty cringe, and for the most part it was (as would have any "faces of x" group been on Reddit), but the idea behind it wasn't made in isolation.
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Your typing here says you're still tired.
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DEAR LORD PEOPLE, SOMETIMES THERE IS NOT A DEEPER MESSAGE AND IT'S JUST A DUMB JOKE!
Seriously, check out the other comics by this artist. They just like absurdist humor, like this one:
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Don't be anti-intellectual about this silly comic. People can apply intellectual analysis to stupid things if they want to, and they damn-well may find deeper meaning sometimes.
Let people have their hobbies.
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Is the mother supposed to be sad about religion being a sham or sad that her child doesn’t believe? The comic is too ambiguous to me because the 1st and 2nd panel heavily imply a caricature of atheism often spread by religious people who feel powerless in their own lives.
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Sad that the existential dread of not existing after death makes life pointless.
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i think it’s more her grieving the fact that a big chunk of her life was a lie
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she ded
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Having your entire worldview shattered can be pretty emotional
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As long as they aren’t doing horrible things in the name of religion, then I have the controversial opinion that religion isn’t all bad. Not everyone is an intellectual, therefore some religions can be considered a way to promote and preserve morals. While it’s unknown how his mother used religion, the neckband portrayed in the comic had no regard for his mother’s feelings or beliefs, showcasing the bad side of atheism. In the same way, religion could have similar effects. In the end there needs to be balance, a yin and a yang.
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I've got a somewhat different take, but similar
We are shedding light on the world through science and philosophy. We first figure out the most effective ways to think about things with philosophy, and then we apply that thought process with the scientific method to further our understanding.
Eventually, we will always reach the shadows on the edge our understanding, whether personally or as a society. Past that point, we are really just making up apparitions in the dark, until we can shed light on that edge.
That process of spotting forms in the dark is always going to be informed by some unfalsifiable ideation, either because we can't test the ideas we have, or because the ideas we have are inherently unproveable.
To me, it really doesn't matter what kind of ideation you have past that point of shadow, be it religion or nihilism or panpsychism or determinism, but I hope that whatever idea you have faith in brings you solace and makes those dark forms in shadow less daunting.
The problem comes, when you chose to be in the dark about something and apply faith-based arguments where light has already been shed, or when you use apparitions you made up as an excuse to do harm to others.
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As an atheist I have a deep mistrust of proselytizing.
That includes other atheists who think they need to spread their beliefs like a religion.
I have atheist, christian and esoteric friends and family who keep their beliefs to themselves (unless asked for it) and it's part of my worldview to (while being able to talk about it) not trying to convert someone to my beliefs.
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Live and let live, yeah.
But once they try to convert me I go full out.
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christian-turned-atheist-turned-occultist here. you're doing it right.
dogma is the core evil.
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I mean it is bad, it’s the base of the pyramid that builds up to the tip which is religious extremism. That said religion can’t be banned out outlawed, it will just dig its self in deeper under the pretense of oppression so it’s more a matter of having to tolerate a minor evil and staying vigilant it doesn’t evolve into its final form by keeping life balanced
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One panel away from being Loss.
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delivering someone from a lifetime of sexual and gender oppression, and eliminating their need to tithe a portion of their income to an organization that hides and protects pedophiles and rapists?
Mom's on the floor weeping with joy.
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An awful lot of the neckbeards from the comic in these comments.
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I'm sure you'd feel more secure with the 9gag comment section, they love this type of stereotype (as well as others)
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the crowing about how happy she ought to be is gut-wrenchingly tone deaf. the self-righteousness, lack of empathy, and vindictive attitudes are as bad as anything i ever encountered from religious people. monsters.
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Turns out one doesn't have to be religious to be a hateful zealot.
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I will never understand how people can be happy with the idea that there is no god.
I say that is someone who is miserable because there is no god.
I truly believe that our world is broken and the peace that can fix it is the supernatural. Unfortunately without that missing piece We are without hope, For the dead are truly gone
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You mean from the comic depicting neckbeards? So weird
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I'm an atheist but I understand that religion and/or faith makes a lot of people happy and I don't want to take that happiness away from them.
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Agnostic here and yeah, most atheists and agnostics I have ever met are about the same. We don't care if YOU believe. We care that you care we don't. Most of us will never utter a word against your religion and beliefs as long as you "do unto others" and all that jazz. This comic reaks of being drawn by a Christian about how they think Athiests behave and feel. This video is ancient now, but I get the same vibes off this comic.
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i like bokonon's take, let people believe what makes them strong and happy and healthy and brave. if it's helping them and not hurting others it's fine.
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I do. It's such a waste of time. I'm not going to start anything with people, I don't have the patience or energy for that. And honestly, i don't have any debate skills. But I really wish I could just take it all away. Isn't it better to be right than to be happy?
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Isn’t it better to be right than to be happy?
First of all, no it isn't. If you think it is, please explain why.
Also, Is that a decision that you would want someone else to make for you?
If not, why do you want to make that decision for other people?
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So many people in this thread completely missing the satire. The author is clearly also an atheist poking fun at the highschool reddit atheist stereotype. Taking this way too seriously.
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I didn't catch the self-deprecation. What makes it clear?
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To me, what this comic is saying is that even if you're able to debate someone out of believing in God it's cruel to do it to someone like your mom who has God as the central pillar of their emotional well-being.
It presupposes that you're able to "prove" that God doesn't exist and to me it doesn't necessarily paint the idea of being an atheist in a negative light, just the neckbeard atheist attitude that you should try to emotionally destroy people who do believe in God.
It's a three panel comic so yeah, it's a bit ambiguous, I just think that people are missing that the punchline is really only funny from an atheist perspective. From a Christian perspective the comic is awkward. The last panel wouldn't be a punchline and wouldn't make sense at all, how would these obviously loser neckbeards be able to prove God doesn't exist?
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The drawing of him kicking in the door is hilarious.
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That looks like a healthy cry. She will go through much self reflection and come about as a better person.
Nope! She has spent her life with a religious as her backbone and now will seek it as a crutch with greater desparation. Trauma...survival mode...etc...
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Basically.. my reaction to hearing the good word of Atheism was to cling to New Age as hard as possible and believe the Skeptics were just miserable and calling anything inconvenient to their beliefs "Psuedoscience"
That lasted... a while... thankfully I'm not on the Spirit Science train anymlre
Now I'm a Buddhist and am learning to be cool with the temporary nature of existence and am looking forward to rebirth in the Pure Land.
The Problem with New Atheism is that humans need hope and hope isn't something Dawkins offers.
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That sounds like a wonderful journey of reflection.
My personal view is that hope as a foundation is complete bullshit. My foundation is, in the most positive version of nihilism, "ultimately, nothing matters." I look at it as a clean slate. You get to decide what is important to you and persue it! I study all of nature to find purpose or meaning. I take joy in human ingenuity. I take sorrow in callousness. I appreciate what I have and want better for everyone.
Hope is a fine outlook but not something to lean on. It can kill motivation when expecting some 'other' to fix things. That can reward the callous and hamper ingenuity. It does not drive people to be better but can drive them to follow depraved systems of belief when they are promised post mortem reward or punishment.
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Some people just can't handle being released from Plato's cave.
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The first experience for many is crushing despair. It can take time to get out of that slump and learn to find meaning in a meaningless world.
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The world has plenty of meaning that doesn't involve any kind of faith or religion.
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It's the kind of existential rugpull that would fuck anybody up. I understand the resentment against organized religions and the widespread institutional abuse they perpetuate but that's not a reason to be a vindictive and judgmental about individual people having the very common experience of deconversion being traumatic. It's not their fault, and it doesn't mean they're weak.
Come back down off that high horse and dare to commit the sin of empathy with me.
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Religion may be a lie but it's a comforting lie and that helps a lot of people get through their daily life.
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Thing is it shouldn't be comforting to anyone if they really take the details seriously. You could do as much damage really educating someone about Deuteronomy and other fun parts of the Bible and ultimately leave them in a worse state than finding a way to make them an atheist.
We forget an atheist is just a non-theist. Someone who doesn't believe in any specific canonical god. I'm an atheist with a genuine faith the universe has more in store for "me" (whatever that is; I don't believe it's necessarily or eternally "ynthrepic") than a mere human lifetime given what we know about the universe as a whole and how mysterious and seemingly fundamental consciousness is to it all. That gives me some relief and comfort from the existential dread. More than I could possibly get from Yahweh and his totally uncompelling biblical heaven and hell dynamic.
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Most people I know who are religious don't take the bible very literally; most haven't even read it. The comforting lie is stuff about the after-life, heaven, and a caring universe.
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You're forgetting that some people have coping mechanisms for life around systems containing a kind god that's there looking after them, and will reunite them with people they desperately hope to see again when they die.
Your coping mechanism is hoping the universe is magical and mysterious and has something more for you when you die. You're not an atheist, just a non-denominational theist with a different hope for continuing on after you're dead. I hope it brings you comfort, but don't shit on people who have a different post death comfort they hope for.
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I almost feel like he wasn't actually trying to persuade her but instead he is so insufferable that clearly God couldn't exist because that would make him horrifically cruel.
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So many militant atheists. Saying so much, all just to prove the comic right.
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You really made a difference right there, bud!
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Would be much darker.P.S. In the first panel neckbeard looks like a pirate with a wooden leg and prosthetic hand.
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Yeah, I warn those who are challenging their own faith that naturalism isn't for everyone. For me it was a stark process to come to terms that I'm thinking meat, and my species is looking at some imminent great filters even before we are able to create a dependent colony on our own moon, so mostly harmless is going to be more of a footnote than our society deserves.
As someone who had an early aspiration to add something significant to the collective community that it could take with it into the future, this proved to be a bit of a let-down.
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What aspects of naturalism do you feel negate the reality of our collective community? I really don't see how the one led you to the other.
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I don't think naturalism negates our collective community, but it does mean it is up to us to navigate an instinct for small tribes. Once we took up advanced agriculture and stopped migrating, we built large societies. And since then we have been contending with subversives who favor their own smaller sects over the good of the community, and they are very good at subverting larger systems for their personal gain.
Most theistic paradigms insist that there are higher powers to assist us when we confront existential threats (such as the climate crisis). Naturalism is one of the paradigms (not the only one) that confronts that there are no safety nets or training wheels. The human species can die out without the assurance of self-sustaining off-world colonies, and there are no higher powers to care or even notice. (Again, not to say they don't exist, but we've looked hard and been unable to detect them.)
Human society may, possibly in the face of the Trump regime, finally take class consciousness and community-focused governance seriously on a large scale. (There have been smaller scale examples.)
However, this isn't the first time we've thought about it and been subverted by established political power. Rather historically, often just after a bout of tyranny, societal collapse and its consequential horrors, we decide as firmly as we can that this time we're going to do it right! and then it gets diluted and subverted within even thirty years.
So to address the matter of uniting our collective community in a global cooperative effort: It's going to take a sociological miracle. We need to discover some new method, invent some new technology that enables all of us, even Trump, Musk, Vought and Thiel to recognize that every one of our fellow 343 million Americans (or 8 billion plus fellow humans) is, as Jesus put it, our neighbor who we should regard equally, that the worst renegade and the most wretched transient deserve the same benefits and treatment as themselves. And then this new thing needs to be resistant to efforts to subvert it.
(Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal imagined such a gimmick, though I can't locate the specific comic. In it a point system is invented, and it's noted that people are nice for the points rather than for a sincere interest in community, but the system works, so it doesn't matter much.)
And we need to do it soon. We're running out of water, and the global average temperature is now at levels where experts warned us could prove a challenge to responders even at the national scale as hurricanes and wildfires rampage across the planet. The unlucky ones will survive until the global famine.
Naturalistic philosophy doesn't say we can't navigate our way to a community-driven society that acknowledges the least of us deserve a comfy life and we should mind the environment, rather, it only acknowledges that if we don't we risk human extinction, and if we die out, there's nothing watching out for us. The greatest cosmic horrir: throughout the universe not even a fraction of a fuck will be given as all of our culture, all of our ideas and works will be reduced to another geological layer on a speck orbiting a spark.
And a lot of people are not prepared to confront this.
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Me at 13 discovering I wont see my loved ones ever again and there's nobody's hand on my shoulder holding me up:
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So weird to see more than one-third downvotes, when all the comments are atheist-supporting. Maybe many read this comic as anti-atheistic ("what a jerk he is for making his poor mom unhappy!")?
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I think it's hard to read the comic itself as anything but anti-atheistic. Or at the very least, anti-vocal-atheist.
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At some point you need to ask yourself what you're releasing people from when there is no (low-effort, low-pain) failsafe individual thought structure to give their life meaning... :'/ so I get both sides...
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What a shitty meme to get blocked over
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With how sad and empty my geriatric mother's life is, the last thing I'm going to do is take away her imaginary friend.
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What's her replacement meaning vocabulary? Was that part of the talk? Was she an animist or a christian?
150 comments
I didn't realize neckbeard atheists oppressed so many people compared to religion, thanks to the author for opening my eyes
Is one of these murderous religious people in the room with us right now?
Way to completely miss the point of the comic. Tearing down someone out of a vain desire to be "right" helps no one. Fight people who use any belief to justify being shitty to others. Go read some Vonnegut and learn to leave people who get goodness out of shit alone.
Edit: The comment originally was about religious people being murderous. My first edit was to add an additional thought. This dude's edited now to change the core of his argument from "murder" to "opression".
If you are an adult and that is your reaction to understanding that god isnt real then you need serious psychological help.
No they're just ruling some of the most powerful and genocidal despotic countries in human history.
Sharing your beliefs with family is pretty common. Would you not want your relatives to reflect the way you see the world?
Just because it's going against the generational direction doesn't make it somehow wrong.
Nor is making a relative upset necessarily wrong.
Now, freed from the expectations, worldview, and belief systems of a religion, she is able to choose her own way of living?
I don't really see how this is a negative. Religion gives easy, comforting, often bullshit answers to difficult questions. Who are you supposed to be? What's the right thing to do? How should you treat others? What happens after I die?
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The last panel is ambiguous about whether the woman is having an emotional breakdown and lying on the ground in tears, or if she was killed by her son and was crying as she died. Both would work as someone being "convinced" their religion is wrong, as being dead would "convince" you about god.
I think it's the former, but i see the latter.
Genocide is worse than murder but murder is still bad
Where did murder come into this?