I don't understand some people

We should only watch the real old trek.

I mean, it was one of the first shows ever to:

have a woman in a command position,
depict a black person in a non-servile role,
show Russians and Americans working as a team during the Cold War, and
have an Asian character portrayed by an actual Asian actor,

but it wasn’t woke!

MLK Jr himself called Nichelle Nichols to encourage her to play Uhura. First interracial kiss on scripted television. She worked with NASA after Trek to encourage and recruit black and female astronauts.
- Which sounds wholesome (and I don't say it's not at all) until you realize Nichols wanted to do something else, I think it was musicals, and King convinced her by saying "we need you to have representation. When you're gone, anyone can take that position, even an alien" and so she stayed instead of self realization.
- First interracial kiss on scripted television.
  That's a common myth. There were several others before, some of which also had Shatner as one half of the kissing pair, believe it or not. Trek's was definitely more high-profile, though, and with several of the others it may have been hard to notice with that particular combination with the quality of televisions at the time; European man with Asian woman probably wasn't noticeable on a tiny '50s black and white TV.
Have a Japanese character about 20 years after ww2.
but it wasn’t woke!
If it wasn't for Kirk banging his way around the galaxy, it would have been.
- Nothing compared to Riker.
It's all Old Trek that came before the J.J. Abrams movie reboot.
but it wasn’t woke!
Define woke then, please.
- Define woke then, please.
  do you kids today really need /s behind every s?

I feel pretty much the same about anyone who complains about something being "woke", no matter the topic - if perceiving and objecting to harms against and struggles of others not like yourself offends you, if seeing others actively try to work in support of those others is something you just can't stomach, then you aren't someone whose opinion I care about.

Plus the folks making those complaints can rarely define what woke is, or struggle to without using language that will immediately "out" their actual objections.

If anyone ever uses the word woke you can automatically assume they're a moron who only gets outraged at what fox news tells them to be outraged at.
- Or we used it ironically.

It annoys me that new trek got wrapped up in this discourse because my dislike of it is because of the image above

Old trek was super "woke" and optimistic, I see new trek as too focused on war and it paints the future as though they never achieved luxury space communism free of scarcity

I think that, starting with the Marquis, Trek was trying to address issues that might arise even with luxury space communism.
I think your comment could reasonably apply to early Discovery and Picard, but not so much to the rest of nuTrek. It could equally apply to DS9 and Enterprise - but not so much to the rest oldTrek (Voyager might straddle the line).
I think it’s most accurate to say that Star Trek as a whole has generally shown alternating waves of reifying and challenging the utopian future concept. Overall that gives a message that a better society can be achieved, but the work of living up to that vision can never end. It works for me.
- nutrek was bad from start to finish, lowerdecks and prodigy was much better shows than the kurtzman 3 he did.
Old trek was super "woke" and optimistic, I see new trek as too focused on war and it paints the future as though they never achieved luxury space communism free of scarcity
At least on that front, it seemed to be rather conditional. If you were not an organic humanoid, you had a much more difficult time.
Just look at Measure of a Man, and what Starfleet later tried to pull with Lal, or what happened on the Sutherland. Or the ExoComps. Or what happened to the deprecated EMH Mk. I units, and the Voyager's EMH and his holonovel. Or the UGLY BAGS OF MOSTLY WATER crystal aliens. Or the Horta. Or Hugh.
I cannot imagine that the Federation would have ordered the developing a form of memetic virus that would telepathically spread amongst the Klingon population and wipe them all out when they were at war with the Empire.
But they did order it against the Borg, intending to use Hugh as a vector.
- Yes, and it was shown as a huge internal conflict in TNG, and honestly even TOS had a bunch of inconsistent morality that didn't quite fit a utopian society, you have a lot of state secrets, a lot of espionage, paranoia, and a cold war that includes violating the prime directive on a regular basis as long as they think the Klingons will also violate around the same degree, and that's really not a very good idea, I really doubt the Vulcans would arm a bronze age civilization on a developing planet with muskets if they thought the Klingons might also do That.
If only Rick Berman would've let us have luxury gay space communism this wouldn't have happened
It's easier on the writers when they take away all the easy. There's an episode of DS9 where the Defiant's computer is broken and they have to do everything manually. The scene of them undocking and leaving ds9 was pretty dramatic. It let them show off the crew's hyper competency without the use of the future tech.
I really hated when Discovery jumped to a post apocalypse future, but those ended up being the best seasons of the show.
- they jumped 900years in the future to get away from thier horrible 2 seasons. i once so a trailer for s4, yup as i predicted they went all in margianalized the other people in the show that made trek great.
Picard falls over because what should be left as a character study has clumsy attempts to jam 'action trek' up it, often derailing it. DISC tells us the universe is dark and full of terrors. Both tell us we fucked up and that we should fear.
PIC and DISC remain trapped in the time and political and emotional states of their making. Jihadists and racism, the same political and bigoted circles over and over. SNW and LD - and yes The Orville - like classic trek show us a version of this - but then reach past to show we could have something better. To normalise that something better.
And it's in the normalisation where Trek's REAL power has always lain. You can tell a thousand aesops, clumsy or skilled on the fool who oppressed his equal, but they don't hold a single candle to the simple fact Uhura is a bridge officer. To McCoy yielding without second thought to M'Benga as a more skilled MO. To former enemies in the crew, women in command, loving single black fathers, genderqueer species, Autistic ciphers, queer couples, trans children. All of them normalised. All of them not begging, demanding, fighting for respect - but simply receiving it. The disrespectful are the denormalised, and they must be fought. A better life is not a dream to strive for held out of reach, it's simply the base state of existence.
Picard and disc forgot that, and its a real fuckin' shame.

That argument is indeed stupid, but Kurtzman Trek is inferior in every other way.

the plots are often incoherent
the tone strays too far from what made classic Star Trek compelling
the overuse of action and spectacle comes at the expense of thoughtful Sci fi
Character development feels shallow to nonexistent
and so much more

Everything is just bad.

That's my impression from DIS, but isn't SNW supposed to be decent?
- SNW is decent. S2 E2 is an especially strong episode.
- snw was too robotic, seems like the actors were being forced to say those lines every scene. they had good premise but the execution was poor, as the other 2 series. picard was equally cringey as std, again they had so MUCH history they can use for the show, but it ended falling flat, and they were using source material from fan novels. (the friendly borg, the rogue changelings,,,etx) all came from various novels.
  prodigy and lower decks were much better shows than the 3 though. too bad t hey got cancelled too fast.
dint kurtzman do the transformer series? i dont know why he was chose for this. almost end of every season, was universing ending event, the exact same plot as the previous season, and then they drop it the next seasons. remember the horrible klingon look, and thier cloaking, people had so much issues they partially dropped it on the 2nd season, and "Escaped to the 31st " century.

Yep. I just watched 'Past Tense' this week, where DS9 spends an entire two-parter advocating for the humane treatment of homeless and unemployed people through an economic policy of full employment. The characters succeed in bringing this about by staging an armed uprising largely led by a black man. It's not only 'woke' but explicitly socialist!

Wait till you get to 'Far Beyond the Stars'. Exploring racism from the pov of a black man in the 50s is different.

Strange New World and Prodigy are really nice shows though and I can see some old trek fans being very entertained by Lower Decks (including me).
- I love all three and I am so glad they came along after DIS, effectively saving the franchise IMO
- Old Trek fan here. Love the crap out of SNW and Lower Decks!

Idk, I think Discovery just sucks.

Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks kick ass, though.

Edit: Discovery and Picard. Picard sucks ass, too. I just cannot force myself further than episode two.

I think the difference is because Disco and Picard are serialized while SNW and LD are episodic.
On serialized Trek, if the writers get a bug up their asses to do a mirror universe storyline or a section 31 storyline, you're stuck with that tedious bullshit for at least half a season. If episodic Trek has a stinkburger episode that everyone mocks for decades (Sub Rosa), the next week can give you a premise so beloved that they base a whole series on it (Lower Decks).
Episodic Trek can take more risks. I kinda miss the longer seasons for the same reason.
- Yes, upon rewatching TNG, I realized that I might actually like less than half of the stories that much, but that still leaves so many stories I do like.
  If I was inclined to like a discovery story to start with, it will wear out its welcome pretty soon because they drag it out so long.
Picard sucks
But how can this be? They are shoving so much fan service down your throat.
- As we all know, after 2 bad seasons, fan service makes good show!
That's fair.
Try Picard season three though, that was way better than seasons 1&2. :⁠-⁠)
- No it wasn't
I liked the first few minutes of Picard but nothing after.
I just gave picard another go and knocked it off but jeeeeeesus. So much nonsensical bullshit and how can you faff about so much with so few episodes.
- Yeah, I also absolutely hate the lighting. Everything is either way too dark or way too bright or somehow both at the same time. I remember seeing a trailer for one of the later seasons and the federation ships seem like they'd super uncomfortable to be on.
- Meh, there were a few times where the comedy could have probably taken more of a backseat than it did, but the comedy didn't overall bother me that much. I did like that it was a more unpolished take on what life in Starfleet is like, and the comedy was the vehicle that that view was delivered through. I mean, take Shax and T'ana making it super uncomfortable to be roomed close to the holodecks; realistically, who isn't going to get up to some freaky shit with tech like that? The live action shows kinda dance around it, but I like that Lower Decks was able to address it outright because it's allowed to take itself less seriously.
- theres a time and place for comedy but for a scifi should be kept to a minimum.
  I think of all things The Orville demonstrates that on both sides - for a show whose premise is "Seth MacFarlane wants to be a TNG-era Star Trek captain" you can see more of his comedy at the start than afterward, presumably because it needed to be a Seth MacFarlane comedy to get funded and then not so much once the funding was secure.

Yeah, anyone who complains that Trek is suddenly all woke and political now never watched any classic Star Trek or hasn't been paying attention back then.

I've watched all of Star Trek on the big screens and the small ones at least once - including Section 31 - and it's as political as it has ever been. And there has always been brilliance and absolute dogshit. Those who say NuTrek is all shite don't know what they're talking about.

I agree "old" Trek was woke too. It just blended in better imo. (Especially with Disco, it felt like there was a metaphorical spotlight on the "woke".)
- old trek had more subtlty, nutrek was too forced and out in the open to the point, it was distracting from the series plots. and std and picard were not very good shows. SNW need better actors/acting though, although they have much better arcs than the last 2.
Nice username btw.
- Thanks.
they called STARGATE WOKE too, of all the scifi shows, they try to call a show that did use as much accuracy as possible to the USAF in the early years. additionally this was also discussed on one of cringey ml, hexbear posts for some reason, they are framing it as WOKE. they think its increasing propaganda because its based on USAF/CANADA/russian(to an extent).

I'm still irritated about that scene on behalf of Nimoy. Shatner should have been told to stuff his ego up his ass.
- What went wrong with that scene?

I hate posts about some vocal asshat complaining about something being woke. Anybody who uses the word woke derogatory is an asshole who doesn't deserve a moment of my attention.

Honestly just miss everyone working together. I only did about 1.5 seasons each of Picard and Discovery, but I just couldn't take all the "the enemy is each other". If I wanted that I'd watch the expanse? Ftr I will watch them in entirety and fully judge at that point, rn I haven't so can't say they offer nothing. SNW seems to get it though which I appreciate and hope continues. There are so few optimistic sci-fi shows I really want trek to stick to that niche.

Hm and here I thought new trek was bad because of weak and lazy story writing, including blatant inconsistencies with old trek and 'burning' the original cannon in order to avoid being accountable to it. 🤔

What was that show that had the first recognized interracial kiss? Way back in November 22 1968 ... honestly, if Star Trek had done that it would have been considered shocking and "woke".

Star Trek has ALWAYS been controversial.

not only that, interracial crew, a Japanese, russian and a black woman on the main crew!!!

I mean, what's to understand? Kids are dumb and can't understand media, adults are dumb and can't understand media they didn't watch as kids.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

That's why we love Daddy Data 💕 🤖

choose it's own sex and appearance

Data did not use contractions (as pointed out by his evil twin), so that would be "choose it is own sex and appearance"

You could've just pointed out that it was supposed to be "its" instead, which is also not a contraction lol
- I thought it would be funny this way. Guess not

STD and picard is pretty much the reason why they start calling it woke, they dint care of the plot/and the series were crappy, just that the showrunners try to overemphasize certain characthers that they are not white, and straight and men. also the problem with STD, was naming an unlikable characther/actor as the lead role and to captain with a name that is only assigned to one gender, they were hoping this is a distraction for a poor series/writing overall. an analagous media, is J lawrence being a goodie two shoes, mary sue about her importance.

Picard? The series literally laser focused on and named after the cis white man?
- conservatives were ignoring the premise, they only care about which characthers were acting out of thier traditional roles.

Imagine griping about hamfisted social commentary in Star Trek. It's never been subtle.
My biggest gripe about nutrek is too much section 31. It sends the message that the utopian post-scarcity society is only possible because of unaccountable fascists slinking around in black pleather behind the scenes.

"And look what happened to Lol. She fucking died!"

What I liked was how casually they were progressive. Like no biggie, this is just a thing, it's the future so why would it be a big deal. When they wanted to speak to a modern day issue with more gravity, either some time travel to create a human context where it could be controversial, or some alien metaphor that was super obvious but still technically not humans being backwards.

Discovery had a habit of being a bit too over the top about it and self congratulatory in media.

A good modern example of all things I think was the Orville. Humans again are casually progressive, so they had the all male species be the focus of gender issues.

“I only watch Trek that is well written.

Which means I don’t watch ANY Trek!” :)

That means you just watch DS-9, right?
- I'm about to start a fight, I think.

They are just different, modern is so cynical and edgy and, yes, 'woke' in the way that makes it feel foreign.

Lads, is being foreign woke?
- Alright, I'll try to explain it better. For me, trek was about people overcoming their differences and trying to work things out despite them, and being kind to each other. Newer shows lack this ideas, in my opinion.
I am baffled by this language you speak. Are you trying to break an AI overlord by speaking in paradoxes or...?
What does "woke" mean? What makes modern Trek woke but old Trek not?

They made because they’re not awake.

a
nu-trek is post JJ abrams movies trek, any series releasted after it, and especially if they copy all the flashy scene effects of the movies and writing.