Ada will not defederate lemmy.ml at present
Ada will not defederate lemmy.ml at present
49 comments
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The liberals have really begun to stink the place up ever since they jumped ship en masse from Reddit. They joined a platform created & maintained by communists and constantly shit stir with the "look at what Lemmy.ml is doing". Lemmy.ml is one of the biggest and original instances and it's plainly obvious that transphobia isn't tolerated there. That's what the community demands, regardless of nutomic. Likely it has more trans users than most instances that people are using to complain about nutomic.
The same people simply have it in for Lemmy.ml and won't stop until every instance defederates from it. Nutomic's views are just another means for them to achieve that goal.
Maybe one of them will step up and create their own alternative platform and they can all clear off to that one for good.
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I've only ever seen one comment from nutomic cited as evidence of transphobia. And its a DM responding to some mystery comment that is never posted alongside it. A bit suspicious when the only evidence is presented without context.
Though it does contain the transphobic dogwhistle, "biological man," but that term is also one a reasonable person could reasonably reach from a place of ignorance. He also admitted to knowing very little about trans issues.
Also the trans comments are just one in a list of things. Without context there's no way to know if those even are his own ideas, or a summery of the mystery comment he's responding to, but also clearly disagrees with.
The opposition to nutomic on the basis of transphobia feels very much like a witch hunt. This doesn't seem like strongly held anti-trans beliefs. People are occasionally wrong or misinformed about things. And that's okay!
Edit: misremembered the specific language in the quote
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People at home will moan about fascists and loss of their illusory freedoms at home, cheering when communists gain traction in other states, talking big about revo while the wolf is at their door, and 100% fling open the windows and invite in the fascist fox for cuddles and Netflix.
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allpoetry.com/First-They-Came-For-The-Communists
First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
Eta: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/scratch_a_liberal_and_you%27ll_find_a_fascist
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Yes. Supporting genocidal regimes and fascists that have been plaguing society for the better part of the century are ok UNTIL they become transphobic.
Pathetic self interested selfish instance. Now I don't think we should be defederating for any reason other than illegal content, so I agree with this move, however I disagree with the reasoning.
Blahaj.zone and its mods have been the king of bad ideas and accelerating echo chambers, so I'm not surprised. In fact this is probably one good thing they've done until they say doors are transphobic or something and ban people who don't remove doors off their houses.
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I'm surprised to see this many people think the same as me. They are way too strict and full of censorship. Saying anything will get you flagged as transphobic, even if you’re just politely debating about a subject you want to get informed about.
"You should have known" - "you’re just transphobic"
blahaj.zone is an insult to the LGBT
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out of the loop -- what did we do wrong?
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One of the head honchos on ml had some rant about trans people being part of the bourgeoisie agenda or some shit. Which of course, raises eyebrows about how this crowd in general was so against voting and standing up to the guy who is currently actively stripping transgender rights. I'm sure you're not all transphobes but the fact that this comes from someone at the head of a community, does make one look at the big push to not vote a little differently and makes it look like there's more reasons for it than just being too cool for school.
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ITT: a lot of non blahaj zone users hating blahaj zone
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What if the causation is the other way around from how you think it is?
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Apparently saying the west is coopting LGBT issues for racist / imperialist purpose is now transphobic. Yet "Arabs deserved it because they kill gays" is a perfectly valid opinion to have apparently.
Next stop: the word "pink washing" is now misogyny, and talking about neoliberalism is a bannable offense.
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Blahaj making a decision that likely ends up harming trans people? Wow, how unlike them, that's so surprising 😮
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Blahaj not opting for censorship is really rare
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Blahaj is a shit place, so no surprise. You can support the biggest warmongers and dictators on planet earth, but as long as you dont't have some mild criticism of the lgbtq community, you're good to go.
Pathetic instance with a really fucked up moral compass.
49 comments
I find that trashing on all of Lemmy development and lemmy.ml from nutomic's one questionable stance to be a little idiotic, but that's just my opinion. Those things are the work of more than just one person. Dessalines is a heavy lifter in moderation and development, and they're pretty decent. Various contributors have provided code/features, translations, apps and interfaces to Lemmy. Moderators of all server types have their own opinions on stuff.
But to an extent we all have to put that aside, because face it, perfectly sanitized opinions have nothing to do with code quality. We all have a couple shitty opinions, but what makes someone a decent human being and not a bigot is recognizing where their actions and opinions cause harm unto others and try to minimize that. This harm reduction can include changing actions and opinions, but it can also be keeping harmful actions and opinions away from people it would harm. This is where Ada probably sees banning nutomic from the instance as sufficient rather than all of .ml
Yeah, the whole China/Russia can do no wrong sort of thing is a pervasive problem on Lemmy.ml, but likewise they keep moderation of that to within the confines of their instance. The running costs of a server are virtually nothing compared to cost of working full-time to maintain software, so most donations don't really go to hosting the .ml server itself but rather to development. I don't personally agree with the .ml admins on many things, but I'll defend them for allowing others to run online communities how they want in return for letting every one of us do the same. I've likewise defended Ada's decisions on how they want to root out transphobia from their server, that's their choice, and so far it seems to have served Blahaj users well.
Personally the sooner we rip off that bandaid, the better. .ml is far from the only activity pub project out there, but they are absolutely one of the most toxic forces on the fediverse and seriously harm the on boarding experience for new users. Nutomic is a bigot and a liar and Dessalines is a cringe keyboard warrior and nobody would put up with them if they weren't writing code. But if Lemmy is no longer the only mature option for federated social media, why should we continue to tolerate their shit?
Yeah fuck them lol. I'd like to see how their platform does without users. Then it'll just be a fun little coding project for them, nothing more. There's already other options. At least Piefed is actively working on adding missing features and improving the end user experience. And isn't stuck in 1999.
It's very cool that they built this platform and much appreciated. But if they're then going to turn around and act like trans people shouldn't be concerned about transphobia if it comes from one of their own, because we should all be grateful and thankful to our overlords instead, then they can shove their fkn half baked platform.
I think this is an inconsistent move from the Blahaj team. They defederated feddit over one transphobic user who the admins wouldn't deal with. And I agree with that decision. They should make the same decision here. If lemmy.ml won't ban Nutomic, then it's clear they aren't interested in creating a safe environment for trans people.
Regardless of any funding question, I think every instance should be questioning federation with .ml over their acceptance of Nutomic. And that goes double for any instance committed to inclusivity, because they have a responsibility to their users to uphold the values those users expect.
I don't think it's inconsistent. My understanding is that the bad comments were in private messages and although they don't disown then or apologise for their views, they are not making transphobic comments in threads.
In the feddit case, transphobia discourse was active and unmoderated. I have no doubt that if that was the case for .ml, then blahaj would defederate.
There is no point in federation of you defederate from every instance with bad users. Ban the user, not the instance. In the case of an instance not moderating hateful content, ban the instance.
Feddit.uk was defederated because they did not address transphobia on their instance and stopped responding when I asked for clarification of how they will handle similar incidents in the future in light of the transphobic legislation introduced in the UK. If it becomes clear they are acting on transphobia, we will refederate.
lemmy.ml does act on transphobia and despite their admins comments in DM, I have seen no indication that transphobic posts are allowed to remain on their instance from admins or users. If it becomes clear they're not acting on transphobia, we will defederate. Either way, Nutomic will remain banned.
Which is to say, neither scenario is really contingent on the actions of an individual, rather they're contingent on how the admins respond to transphobia.
I can definitely understand how this may seem as an inconsistency on Ada's part. I've been critical of Ada in the past, but I see this as more of Ada taking a calculated, diplomatic approach.
With the Feddit situation, Feddit is just another random Lemmy instance, so there's no real loss in defederating. But ML is where Lemmy development is centered, and whether Blahaj users like it or not, they do have an intrinsic interest in the development of Lemmy's code. They want Blahaj to be a safe space, which requires moderation tools to be developed, and it's helpful to keep an open connection with the developers in that case so that Blahaj's input and contributions can be considered when these tools are built.
At least, that's just my speculation as to why there's an inconsistency.
Just to clarify, the defederation from feddit.uk has more to do with the admins allowing transphobic comments to remain because of the EHRC ruling and then ghosting Ada when asked to clarify their policies around dealing with transphobia. It wasn't just one user.
I still agree with considering lemmy.ml for defederation.
As a feddit.nl user it would help if you included the TLD, there are several servers that call themselves feddit. 😊
Well said. Ada's stance is reasonable, and whoever keeps bringing this up should consider taking a trip to their account settings and blocking users, communities and instances to their hearts' desire instead of pressing others to do it for them.
Nutomic is banned from blahaj anyway.
Your entire opinion is null and void when you don't even get the nuances of why they would even start to express their support for Russia in the Ukrainian war, you just assume they like totalitarianism, incredible attitude
From what I understand the transphobic comment from nutomic was from a publicized DM. So it's a stretch, in that sense, to seek defederating an instance over it, as the ban is justified to begin with.