EU fines Apple $568m for deterring third-party payment methods on App Store
EU fines Apple $568m for deterring third-party payment methods on App Store
The European Union has fined Apple $568.6 million (€500m) for violating its Digital Markets Act.
Fuck the stupid morons who defend Apple.
Imagine if Microsoft banned Windows users from installing the software they want on their computer.
Imagine if Microsoft required all software developers to give them 30% of their earning or Microsoft will ban them from Windows
For a company like Apple, that’s “cost of doing business” rather than a genuine deterrent.
500m is bigger than you think. Also fines escalate.
I didn't read the article, but I presume this is under the DMA which has provisions for increasing fines for repeat offenses - something like 10% of global revenue or something like that. I'm also a bit discouraged by how small the number is, but there is still some hope that it will either increase or get them to change their practices. But it is quite frustrating how slowly it's going.
In fact, chances are that Apple is going breaking the law until the last minute so they can squeeze every penny they can out of this scheme until they can't do it any longer.
People are down voting you like your defending them, but you're not, and you're right. It sounds like a lot of money, but for Apple, it's just an adjustment to the profits they made doing this.
Cost of doing business....
Imagine if Microsoft banned Windows users from installing the software they want on their computer.
Imagine if Microsoft required all software developers to give them 30% of their earning or Microsoft will ban them from Windows
I think that's exactly what Microsoft is aiming to do in the future.
cough S Mode cough Windows RT cough
Naw, you're right. There are still ways to get a decent windows experience, but it will fall to the domain of power users.
I personally see MS not really caring about their windows users. With more than enough revenue from enterprise to keep them going for decades, they will lose grip on gamers and older casual users, who remember windows before the marketplace and preinstalled adware.
With all the flavors of Linux (and a proper walled garden like Apple), I'm thinking Windows will follow Skype in the next decade or so.
Getting out of S mode is a few clicks away though. There’s a certain kind of user who actually benefits from it, and nobody is locked in.
RT’s restrictions were primarily architecture based (ARM)
Hating on Apple for their 30% cut is popular.
Hating on Google for their 30% cut is popular.
Hating on Microfot, Sony, and Nintendo for their cuts is popular.
But somehow hating on Steam for their 30% cut is going too far.
Perhaps that's because Steam doesn't seem to be trying very hard to "lock in" developers to their platform. Devs are free to sell their PC games on Gog or Epic or whatever. Steam is popular because it's a good platform. This freedom for developers or customers mostly does not exist on mobile or on consoles, except for the EUs efforts here.
Even their "console" the Steam Deck can, relatively easily, run games from other stores. I'm not saying a 30% cut should be considered fair but they do seem to take a different approach to digital sales than the other large players.
I'd like to see a game developer chiming in but as a user, 30% cut by Steam feels justified.
They have helped me discover and buy many games that I wouldn't have even heard of otherwise. Compare that to Google Play Store which is full of dogshit shovelware and Pay2Win games.
And sometimes I've even bought Steam keys via Fanatical bundles, where I chose which games to buy by looking at their Steam store pages. Steam got nothing from these transactions as far as I know.
This is without getting into other useful stuff like guides and forums hosted by Steam which I can look at whenever I get stuck. Or Steam workshop which allows users to easily mod the games.
Call me a fanboy but I'm tired of this 'what about Steam' comments.
Ask Sony, Microsoft, Google, and Nintendo to improve their stores instead.
Fair, but there is an argument to be made about how hosting things are now cheaper than ever, by a huge margin. When 1GB used to cost 1 dollar, they had 30% cut. Now when that's 0.01 not 1, 100x the difference (while games have gotten like what, 10x bigger?), it's still 30%.
But you know what is the most damning argument against their cut? Steam earns more money per employee than next 3 companies combined and Gabe is buying fleet of yachts and multiple submarines, not even getting into real estate, while indie devs are going broke one after another. That cut might make a major difference for devs, but at this point Gabe has already too much money and won't suffer from having less of it, which is really not consumer or developer friendly thing to do, basically hoarding riches like other billionaires
100% this. At least epic tried to make a value proposition for developers but developers can just make more from steam. Having said that, steam/valve had a hand in the always online gaming situation which we have all just come to accept. I buy from Gog where I can
The difference is availability of choice. On apple phones, Xbox, Nintendo, and PlayStation you are locked into a single source of software. On a PC there are myriad of game stores you can choose from. Sometimes you can even buy the software directly from the developer. Usually people are upset when this choice is taken away (for example epic exclusive games). Nobody would bat an eye if a developer offered their game on epic or their own platform with a ~20% discount compared to steam. But it is up to the developers to make their game available on any of the PC game stores.
In conclusion, steam is not a platform holder, they could charge whatever they wanted. If the markup was too high, you could simply choose to buy your games elsewhere. For most people, this 30% is worth it for the features and buyer protection that steam offers compared to other platforms.
Steam isn’t a monopoly.
The PC is an open platform, you can use any game store or launcher you want - unlike the iPhone, Android (without sideloading), PlayStation, switch, or Xbox.
Yeah the comments about Steam being a monopoly are weird to me. Steam has a huge market share, but they don't own the whole market and they don't try to prevent you from buying your games elsewhere. Proton even works on non-steam games. I've used it to play WoW private servers on Linux.
If Valve isn't a pro-consumer company, then I don't know what company could possibly fit the criteria. They're not perfect, but they've earned the trust they have. I'll trust Valve until they give me a reason not to.
You get value from Steam for paying that.
What value do you get from Apple for paying the Apple tax? A higher price for a phone that could cost 500€ less?
As a Linux gamer, valve making proton has launched gaming on linux into the stratosphere.
It would be more comparable if Apple, Microsoft (Xbox), Nintendo, or Sony allowed anyone to make a third party game launcher but they just keep sucking.
I'm less mad at Steam and Google because there are clear, simple ways to avoid their cuts.
I have no basis to say whether they're providing a service worth the 30% charge. I'm also less mad at Steam than at Google because they're being less shady about trying to push people into their store too.
Steam gets a pass because they actually offer buyer protection, refunds if it doesn’t work, refunds under certain requirements which can be waved under certain circumstances, removal of day one season passes, refunds for dlc that gets delayed too long for example.
If an actual competitor gave a shit about things that matter to actual players than they have a shot. Epic Game Store is a joke because no one wants a store that only focuses on what corporations want. GOG is good but just doesn’t market itself well, seriously outside of launching CDPR games I don’t see it at all.
Getting companies to offer their games on platforms that offer a higher margin is easy. Getting players over to a platform that offers less protections and features is not going to happen.
GOG is good but just doesn’t market itself well
GOG's biggest problem is also their greatest asset: no DRM.
I was denied a refund for a broken game on Steam Deck just last winter. I had never played or even installed it, but I had purchased it and let it sit in my backlog too long before trying.
By comparison, I can’t recall a single time I’ve been denied a refund request from the iPhone App Store. They’ve also never sold me software that couldn’t run on the hardware they also sold me.
I understand how it’s my fault according to steam’s ToS, but it still doesn’t seem right to me.
I agree that the 30% cut is too much. The only reason I give them a pass is because Steam is really good (at least, as a user). But I still want them to lower it.
For a dev those 30% are very much worth it because Steam has tons of customers and very good recommendation algorithms, you gain more in additional sales than what you lose from the cut. Could they do with less probably but they're not extorting devs. There's a reason why Epic had to do stuff like guarantee sales and provide huge advances to get anyone onto their excuse for a platform.
Microsoft, Apple, Exxon, Meta, Amazon, JP Morgan or Saudi Aramco are the most powerful corporations in the world. They are empires more powerful than many nations. Their CEOs always travel with armed men. They have the personal phone number of Donald Trump and Xi Jinping.
It's healthy to scrutinize them. Steam is a problem, but Valve is nowhere near as powerful.
I get why people like steam. But as a steam hater, if GabeN ever dies and the kids or whoever is heirs are decide to sell to VCs or private equity. That 30% will be just as oppressive as anyone else’s.
Steam's 30% is the last of their problems, I would like them to finally start actually moderating Steam forums. Because devs of the particular game usually don't care. Visit some forums of newly released popular game and it's full of bigots, misogyny, trolls and hate. It's unbelievable.
Go check oblivion remastered
I hate it 🙂
Yes, Windows does that. It's called S Mode.
Thanks, I almost forgot about my experience using S mode. It is fucking awful.
If it was my own I would have just installed Linux.
Isnt the mode dead? I thought they discontinued it
S mode in win10
SE mode in win11
except only loosing 568m is just "the price of doing business" for them and it's not much of a deterrent to make them stop. they made more than that by doing this so it's still a net profit
While true, 568m is a significant cost of doing business. Also remember that a punitive action should not make the company go bankrupt, it should make them rethink.
And if they don't, the fines will go higher, until they do rethink.
If they keep not complying, which is my understanding of what apple has been doing, they should absolutely be bankrupted. Or something drastic.
A warning, which will make other companies self-Police, bringing down the cost of enforcement.
Countries are so permissive of corporate bad behaviour it's not even funny.
Right. And the fines will continue, lol.
maybe, maybe not
Imagine if Microsoft required all software developers to give them 30% of their earning
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/publish/publish-your-app/why-distribute-through-store
Flexible revenue sharing options that let developers choose their own commerce platform and keep 100% of the revenue for non-gaming apps, or use Microsoft’s commerce platform and pay a competitive fee of 15% for apps and 12% for games.
I guess their rates are lower. Currently.
EDIT: And as @Eggyhead@lemmings.world points out, that's for Windows, not the XBox. For the XBox, they do run an exclusive store and apparently do 30% there as well.
continues using Linux
You somehow missed the original argument. No one is forced to use the app store, which is what this is generally about.
Big difference here is that Windows doesn't REQUIRE developers to use the windows store or still pay them money if they use other methods of payment. Anyone can download an installer and install software without the Windows store and Microsoft doesn't make developers pay them still to do that.
Now if they could get away with it they absolutely would like on Xbox. That's why Valve put so much effort into Linux.
Microsoft does with their Xbox, though. Don’t they?
Yes but I don’t believe consoles are a target of the DMA or this investigation. While would be nice if consoles were opened up and forced to allow side loading and alternative stores, I think there’s an argument that they’re single purpose appliances - a PlayStation is sold to you with the intention of it being a gaming box and not much else.
A smartphone or tablet though is at this point a general purpose computer, and it’s reasonable to expect to have the same freedoms and open environment that you would on a PC. And Apple’s argument that they can’t open up the iPhone because security or whatever doesn’t really hold water, because the Mac exists and is both secure and open.
The original argument compares windows to iOS, but gets weaker when comparing windows to macOS, which is still pretty corralled, but more or less open.
I asked about Xbox because Microsoft doesn’t sell a phone, and Xbox is an example of a Microsoft-run closed ecosystem. So I was curious about how their closed ecosystems compared.
If Microsoft sold a phone, I wonder if it would actually be more open like windows and Mac, or closed like their own XBox and the iPhone.
Microsoft is actually the least problematic of the console racket (Sony, Nintendo and MS), games release simultaneously to pc and they offer cross compatibility. Maybe the EU will address it eventually, but i guess mobile takes precedent given that everyone has a cell phone.
“reeeeeee”
Tim Apple to Trump
You know what to do, papito....