Legal loophole
Legal loophole
90 comments
-
-
Nah, this totally makes sense. Revivify costs 300 gp, which is about 5 months of work for a skilled hireling (or 4 years for an unskilled one). Laws are only for the poor.
If you convert to the relative value of labor instead of the real life value of diamonds, it's probably something like $40k to $60k to revivify someone. Seems like enough cash on hand to somehow get away with murder.
-
Fun fact: that's exactly how much it cost for a single day of the OJ Simpson defense.
-
Hey, that is a fun fact!
-
It's fucked up that you can just pull that fact out of thin air and drop it on a DnD post.
Take my upvote you sonnovabitch
-
-
Going with the cost of living equivalent, it's only about $15,000, which I think still does the job of pricing out the poor
-
But in that case, they'd probably fine you so that they get that money instead of just letting those diamonds be destroyed.
Also, Zealot Barbarians can be Revivified for free. They'd probably want to close that loophole.
-
Yeah. I'm running into that problem with higher level players now. They are being held to account for burglary, kidnapping and property damage they did 8 levels ago before they were nobles with land from another king.
You can't really imprison or execute people this powerful. The amount of force you'd need to bring to bear isn't worth the collateral damage. You just fine them and force a public apology if they want to do business in the capital ever again. Their wealth and social standing is more important.
-
-
Honestly it seems like a waste to revivify the party member post trial when they could have let the rogue fight to the death solo and revivify in the streets much sooner, or they could have revivified somebody they murdered unless that person really deserved to remain dead, but doing it at the execution is silly they're going to have to roll initiative for all the guards again.
If anything, the DM is probably angry that they now have to freestyle regional laws about the use of revivify on death row criminals and create a brand new series of combat encounters with law enforcement, and becoming outlaws definitely has some effect on the main story arc.
-
Don't forget they'll likely have brain damage from being dead so maybe you can write that in somewhere
-
Seems like enough cash on hand to somehow get away with murder.
Good point. And it's even less on discount Thursdays.
-
-
The punishment is a sentence of death. Not "being killed". You are to be placed in the state of death for the crime. That's why you don't get to walk away if a lethal method fails. You can keep reviving them, but they'll be incarcerated and killed again until it sticks. And I'll put the rest of the party in contempt of court for attempting to subjorn lawful punishment.
-
but they were put in the state of death! for a solid 5s but it should count
-
Isnt there a story of a woman who was hung who survived and had to be let go so they changed the wording to "hung till death" or something?
-
No, It's one sentence of death. Not infinite sentencing. You get sentenced, you die, you get revived? That means you served your sentence.
-
I'm not really looking to get into fantasy legal dispute, but I will say that you are debating the count without even touching the core of what I said: the terms of the sentencing. Being sentenced to death is like being sent to prison. If you step in and then juke out, you can't say "prison sentence over".
We don't specify term limits here because it's typically not a place you come back from.
-
-
Can't it just be that one soul must be dead? So uno reverse the Cleric.
-
choose how you die
Old age.
-
That actually worked once, for a Jester named Triboulet who did things like slap the King's bottom and spread gossip. He chose his execution method as a joke and the King actually laughed, so he was exiled.
-
In earlier editions, Ghosts rapidly aged anyone they touched by draining their life force. Just saying.
-
And now just seeing it (and failing a save) ages you.
-
Still would.
-
-
"Not that merciful. Guards, off with his head!"
-
-
One should expect that in a world where resurrection is a well known possibility, courts will take that into account. Even if it's expensive and can only be performed by a selected few, the law should make sure that one cannot escape punishment by simply having money and connections.
Then again, when you look at our world...
-
Using our world as a template, it probably would be illegal to revive a convict, but itd be an open secret that a few well placed bribes and a bit of influence is all it'd take to bend the rules
-
No, no. It would be illegal to revive a convict using abilities that are affordable or available to the general public. And it would be a crime to both use those methods and to be revived by them.
For more elite methods, though, they wouldn't even be covered by law. They'd go unmentioned and unregulated by statutes and edicts.
-
-
-
-
Of course you let them do it. You also let the victims' family be horrified by the miscarriage of justice and make it their life's work to seek revenge.
-
I like this. It's Faust, but make it fun. Keeps things moving
-
And their complete mistrust of the justice system.
Vive la revolution anyone?
-
-
Gotta be able to get to the body within a minute for Revivify, right?
-
Yes, although you could use Gentle Repose can look like a post death ritual and give you a ten day window.
-
-
I would at least grab the body from the corpse pile later. It’s a little less suspicious. Unless there is a time crunch then the rogue might get animated instead.
-
Death by russian roulette
-
Lord Vetinari approves
-
The Rogue gets stabbed by a Red Wizard blade, made by the Red Wizards of Thay that prevents any sort of resurrection by a cleric.
-
90 comments
Realistically I imagine that having access to resurrection would have fairly dramatic consequences on how a society applies punishment. It'd probably be a crime of some sort to revive the executed, sorta equivalent to breaking someone out of jail, states might be more harsh with handing out death penalties when it is possible to undo them if new evidence is found, and the remains of the executed probably would be carefully stored and locked up to prevent unwanted revival and to have in case the state decides to bring someone back, assuming the body is needed for it.
Might also get things like a monarchy which kills off heirs to the throne after a certain age and stores them careful to revive when the current monarch dies or abdicates, to prevent scheming between them to increase their place on the line of succession or take over from the current ruler early, and to ensure they are young and healthy when they take the throne.
I started reading Jhereg by Steven Brust, and it takes resurrection magic into account with the world building. Part of assassination involves hiding the body until the resurrection window passes. IIRC, the legal penalties for murder are also much less severe if you just kill someone, rather than make sure they're permanently dead.
There are also "Morganti" weapons. They're pretty much the Black Blade from Elric, so they eat souls. So not only do they make resurrection impossible, but the victim is extra dead, not even existing in an afterlife. As a result, using one is a high crime, punishable by death... by Morganti blade.
Man, if I were a soul killing assassin, with knowledge that souls and the afterlife is real... Getting my soul dissolved vs going to my eternal reward ... sounds like a pretty good deal.
Lol. It's Morganti blades all the way down.
Death row is just instant execution, and the date you would be killed is now the last day you could be revived with common means.
If a trial is ongoing during the date you'd become unrevivable or it's considered important to extend the date for some other reason, maybe they just revive you and kill you again to reset the timer
In the Forgotten Realms, the Kingdom of Cormyr has strict penalties against resurrecting monarchs. The penalty is death for the resurrector, and castration + exile for the former king. And the famed War Wizards of Cormyr absolutely have the capability to enforce that law.
I'm not certain (and don't have either my notes or the novel those notes were taken from to hand), but IIRC a resurrection of someone formerly in the line of succession puts them at the end of the line, even if they were as high up as the king's eldest son prior to death.
This naturally creates an issue if the prince dies and is resurrected while a long way from the capital, and returns to the kingdom to find the king has also died while he was gone. Who died first is going to matter greatly, but might be rather difficult to determine.
Whose idea was that law? If I were the king and someone discovered resurrection, I'd say that if I die, I get resurrected and keep my kinghood. Likewise if I conquer an area and become a king after it already exists.
Does it at least not apply to cloning? That's the only way to avoid old age as far as I know, and I can't imagine kings would be in favor of a law that requires they grow old and die.
How powerful are the monarchs? Are they absolute monarchs or far more limited?
Naturally.
These are great world building ideas. Thanks!
You forgot revival being included in the sentence, possibly multiple times over.
Imagine getting burned on the stake multiple times.
Hey now this is a nice fantasy game you can't do that
Girl Genius explores this a bit, with resurrected nobles losing all succession claims. Of course, that's if anyone finds out.
How is the afterlife involved? It's not much of a punishment if you send someone to heaven. And sending someone to hell early for sending someone to heaven early seems disproportionate.
On the other hand given that death is known not to end one's existence, it suddenly feels more akin to exile, so it seems like it would be much more prevalent. Ideally you want legal punishment to either rehabilitate the offender or isolate them from the society if rehabilitation is deemed impossible. Death sentence now serves as a cheaper alternative to a life in prison.