Empowered witches

There's a whole world of strangeness that popular culture, science etc does not satisfyingly address. So they look elsewhere.

Sometimes you see things.

Fantasy is fun?

The last statement is not necessarily true- witchcraft has until very recently been understood to derive power from a concord with the devil.

That's speaking from a certain perspective on that stuff.
"been understood to" is doing a lot of shady sleight-of-hand there.
I think the concept of "witches" is older than the concept of "church".
Here, I googled it for you:
“Witches were sometimes said to have communed with demons or with the Devil, though such accusations were mainly made against perceived opponents of the Church.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft (This specific section has a paper citation)

Theory - mass media creates the narrative that witches in the US are Devil worshippers, often with a pretty manly depiction of the Devil, thereby trying to enforce that they “derive their power from their relationship to a man”.

Yes, but that is hardly new. The church already did that in the middle ages and afterwards during the witch hunts.

Is this just girls?

Am boy, had a witchy phase

Same. We exist.
I had a few friends who introduced me to the topic. I've never cast a spell, but I learned a lot and really took to heart the end of the Witches' Rede: "An ye harm none, do as ye will". Which is empowering and generally fits in with the laws of the land.
Since that phrase has been a cornerstone of my personal philosophy, I'd call myself a witch.
Are you... Gerald?
- far too flabby for that i'm afraid
Not witchcraft but, I went through a "try to train hard enough to get Dragon Ball Z powers" phase for similar reasons.
Does fungi phase count?
It's certainly mostly girls
the aggressive gendering of the term "witch" by political activists has pretty much ruined it as a term for a type of magic practitioner. cultural appropriation is apparently fine when it's politically convenient.
Clearly not just girls seeing as how you're here, unless of course you end up transitioning at some point lol

ITT: “if only girls didn’t believe in horoscopes, my friend from college would have had a girlfriend”

Seriously. It’s so crazy to me to hate a behaviour based solely on its perceived impact on the chances of getting laid.
As if most of the people who got dumped over their zodiac weren’t just arseholes and the other person didn’t have heart to tell them.

I remember this happening when I was a teen, and there are still many women I know into it.

My mother was a self proclaimed witch since the 80's/90's, and told me as a child fairies were real, and constantly told me I "had psychic powers." She read my cards and all that. It fucked me up wholly, and pushed me to science and fact. It's not for me, and I don't understand the fascination. But, if it makes other women happy, it's really harmless.

it’s really harmless.
No its not. Belief in bullshit has negative consequences for the individual, their friends and family, and society as a whole.
Now, is it comparatively less harmful than some other things they could believe in? Absolutely but its still bad.
- This is an ironically anti-intellectual way to engage with it. Magic isnt real, but knowledge on the natural world and medicine has been maintained through cultural practices like "witchcraft" in the past. Even beyond that, there's knowledge gained for young women in a patriarchal society when they develop relationships with other women and identify with a group that is explicitly counter-cultural on the basis of women empowerment.
  Knowledge isn't just facts, it's skills and introspection. Belief in something "bullshit" is often necessary to learn something that is not "bullshit." We teach kids scientifically inaccurate information when they are young because they dont have a basis of knowledge that would enable more nuanced and accurate understandings. They "believe" in something like three states of matter and two genders/sexes because we judge that as a necessary belief to foster the skills that will enable them to learn the reality of these things later.
  If they gained self - understanding and empowerment through this phase, then it isn't bullshit. You should challenge this doomerism.
- I was tryin to have good grace here
I know some people do it as a hobby/curiosity/passion/personality thing. They don't actually believe it, but it's fun and looks cool. That's harmless. The people who believe it's real though? That's not as harmless. It makes you less engaged with reality and fact, and maybe you won't participate in actual work to fix things because you think your magic is just as good, or better.
- Yeah there's plenty of ways to take part in stuff like this without actually believing in magic, or fairies - or gods. It seems like our berry picking ape brains desire these types of narratives and the communities we can gain through them, so I'd even argue it is more stupid to try to fight against them than just accept they're part of us and play along when needed.
  Practicing magic or going to a church can be about doing fun things that tickle your brain, about tradition, about community - it doesn't need to mean you don't believe in science or have to abandon realistic worldview. Pitting science against belief instead of seeing the tendency to create weird little narratives about the world as a thing we do hasn't solved things - the cults and beliefs are still there and ever so strong - just driven a lot of people deep deeeep into crazy
Just about every time someone said something dumb about me or other people, it had real impacts on their lives. Some asshole said I could read minds which drove away friends who believed that's possible. They also said I was a whore despite never even touching anyone until I was an adult; between me and others this happened to, it seriously harmed our ability to form relationships for years.
Ignorance and lies are not harmless.

Meanwhile wizards: "BEHOLD MY STAFF OF POWER", "I'm pondering the SPHERES", "KNEEL BEFORE MY MIGHTY ROD".

Jokes aside, that is a culture thing - if my rather tattered memory serves, historically, a lot of magic was pact magic (asking someone else for power in exchange). Necromancy was a little different (before its conflation with "nigromancy" by the church in medieval times) and in its earlier incarnation generally involved a "descent" into the underworld via a gate (of which there were many) and so was almost "adventure magic". These ancient holy sites were venerated rather than shunned and, again memory is patchy here, generally held an oracle (i.e. a witch).

So, fun fact of the day, if you go caving in the right place you're technically a necromancer.

What's the go with necromancy/nigromancy? This is all new to me and sounds fascinating!
- So, in essence, necromancy was (traditionally) a divinatory art (in short asking questions of the dead who were seen to stand outside time [the notions of time and mortality being intertwined]). Greek and Roman Necromancy by Ogden is a good text on the history here.
  Nigromancy, translating to "black divination" (black as in dark/evil magic) was more to do with demonic pacts and spells focused around power (e.g. summoning a feast, calling up a castle, cursing to madness or death, winning the love of a woman). The text forbidden rites gives a good exploration of this from a historical perspective.
This witch magics
I will never willingly go caving, not after the nutty putty cave incident.
- Caving is fine as long as you stick to places you can walk to and stand in. As soon as your feet leave the ground or your elbows touch it, that's your sign you've gone too far.

because being in a coven with amazing women is preferable than being near high school boys.

my experience with irl wiccan groups has led me to the opposite conclusion, it was a deeply uncomfortable experience from start to finish each and every time. my personhood was not respected, my relationship to my s.o. was not respected, half the talk was "christians bad we're better than christians because of our religion" and the leaders looked at me with the same hungry expression as a horny teenager looks at a porno mag. i'd rather hang out with the high schoolers, at least they don't seem like they're trying to pull me into a weird sex cult.

Even into adulthood, they love bullshit like horoscopes and blood types (the latter more prominent in Japan).

Just let people enjoy things, jeez
- I mean, I didn't say they couldn't. It's just bullshit.
- So strange how people will throw snark at others for enjoying harmless fun.
But blood types are real.
- not the part where they define your personality and compatibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_personality_theory
- Obviously. But in Japan, people think certain blood types have specific personality traits and it gets really annoying when people believe it as if it were solid science.
- so are stars and planets. call me when people base their kids' diets on made up shit about them.
  i actually grew up with this bullshit and i feel lucky i don't have more health issues.

I'll say it: adult witches are hot

Was this ever doubted?? Ofc they are

The undead are safer to be around than a man.

But what about undead vs a bear?
- what about undead human vs undead bear?

Isn't it assumed that witches get their power from the devil?

I think that’s a generally Christian-centric view (which describes anything non-Jesus as the devil). As far as Pagan witches are concerned they could get their power from any number of gods/goddesses, or even from nature herself.
- "I don’t hold with paddlin’ with the occult,” said Granny firmly. “Once you start paddlin’ with the occult you start believing in spirits, and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in gods. And then you’re in trouble.”
  “But all them things exist,” said Nanny Ogg.
  “That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em."
  Terry Pratchett knew how it works lol
- This is new info to me, so not sure who else, but Paganism isn't a single system. It's anything the Christians were trying to erase in Europe. The wildly varying descriptions occur because it was just the negative terms applied to any other group. Going to church is a ritual. Consuming eucharist is a ritual. Priests are channels to their god. Hyms are chants. Prayers are incantations. All just negative terms applied to the out groups.
- Yeah, I didn't want to disempower women, or anything like that. I know that this was merely the christiannarrative of witches.
  Kind of interesting, though that the male-centric christian church had to invent a male figure which gives the witch her power.
When Ezekiel raises the dead, it's a blessing from god. But when I do it...
- I see nothing wrong with this. Please, continue and praise Satan.
Well a witch had sex with the devil. Or sth like that
- If men stopped seeing women as prizes or things to conquer, they'd be able to appreciate just how impressive that is. And then to just call it a fling or a casual hookup. The devil is probably ancient and chill enough to know that sex can just be sex and power can just be power.

this is going to get downvoted into the dust and my inbox is gonna blow up over it but damn one of the very first things i learned as a practitioner was to stay the fuck clear of wiccans, every single group that i checked out was basically an utterly shameless mirror image of evangelical christianity, with all the same issues. its been some years and ive been out of touched but based on my experience i would not be surprised at all to hear that every last one of them voted for trump. between those braindead religious fuckwits and the uninvited appropriation of the term by vaguely feminist slacktivists on the internet, my stock reaction as a decades-long magical practitioner when someone says they're a "witch" is to roll my eyes and keep moving.
Why do you separate these people? If you see something inherently wrong with churches why do you not feel the same sense of destruction towards witches? Consider your bias and how it makes you as delusional as anyone who blindly puts faith in higher powers.
- Probably because I've never heard of a coven of witches writing to their local representative to ban abortion and enact sodomy laws.
- What's inherently wrong with witches?
- Consider your own bias. Recognize the difference between a victim and an evangelist.
- because dipshit reactionaries think of practicing witchcraft as being a political stance aligned with the culture war and dogmatically refuse to see value in religions they don't practice. kind of like the christians they have such a hate boner for.

There's also something to be said about gaining power from the moon because it aligns with our bodies' natural rhythms as well.

Unfortunately false if I remember my mythology correctly. Aren't witches granted their power as a result of their deal with Satan?

Another comment above addressed this: the “power via pact with Satan” is how Christians present witches, but not really how witches conceive of themselves
- Next step: speak to some witches and ask them where they draw their power from.
only if you only listen to christian puritans? you're aware that witchcraft is an extremely old type of practice that long predates the christian conception of satan, right?
- No I wasn't, but thanks for that! I learned something new today!

itt nobody understands witchcraft outside the context of christianity and anti-christian reactionary views. pathetic. read some fucking books.

Witches just want to be made into bridges

"female empowerment that don't derive their power from their relationship to a man"

try to summon the devil or a ghost to get power from.

Hey now it could be a Norse witch. In Norse mythology magic was just a thing women could do, it was something deprived from the experience of womanhood. Hence why Odin lived as a woman for a time, he is too much of a knowledge hoarder. Loki on the other hand is a gender fluid slut and the mother of monsters.
In summary mages can be women, trans, gender fluid, or a dude willing to try new things for knowledge and power.
Long as it's not the ghost of a man
- The joke was that can't have power by themselves.
what a strange way to say that you don't know anything about witches or witchcraft that didn't come from christians during the satanic panic.

Belief in witchy shit is as dumb as believing in conspiracy theories and I place these people in the same category.

I didn't so much "go through an occult phase", I just believed every supernatural tale I heard for the first 10+ years of my life and feared the consequences of not being prepared for them all to happen to me, went through an obnoxious joyless atheist phase in high school in part due to my disappointment at realizing none of it's real, then came back around to it as an adult because it's fun

I'm still annoyed that my sisters got rid of their ouija board before they got good at convincing me that they were communicating with the dead. Their inconsistent details and insistence that "we're all supposed to move it in the same direction" was really confusing for a kid who'd never seen or heard of one of these things before.

side question: why is the "DO" emphasized in the first post? when I try reading it like this it sounds so awkward and unnatural. shouldn't the emphasis be on "why"?

[exasperated, while scrubbing cold black candle wax off of the dining table for the third year in a row while the recently turned 13-year old daughter raids her older sisters closets for anything velvet and purple] "WHY do teenage girls go through a witchy phase?"
[curious, after realising they never thought to ask their daughters this before] "why DO teenage girls go through a witchy phase?"
The emphasis on the word "do" feels pretty natural to me.
The meaning of emphasis on "why" and "do" are also slightly different I feel, but in a way I am too lazy to articulate at the moment.
- The emphasis on "do" indicates an "established fact" that the author is seeking additional context on.

And two scrolls up from this post.... https://sh.itjust.works/post/51268327

The undead are decent people.