[Jenny Gorelick] Co-Stars

She took a perfectly fine point (toys can be used in sex and enrich the play)...and then formulated in a way that would indeed be off-putting to plenty of guys.

Toys should not become LeBron James of your sex, "earning more points" and leaving partner on the sideline. They should be useful assistants at reaching the peak pleasure.

As long as the point is "my partner can drive me even hornier with this" - it is super healthy and great. But when the toy itself becomes the focus, it's not great. She could masturbate much to the same success.

The real comedy is in the comments we found along the way.

She gets hers and he gets his. Wheres the problem?
Maybe ask her if you can do anything to replace the vibrator and when she says you can vibrate her clit with your dick at 50 Hz, you tell her to just use the vibrator.

Do whatever gets the job done. So many unnecessary hangups.

If she needed me to kill a chicken for her to get off, I'd ring that poor little bastard's neck (the chicken's, just to be clear.)

My love life involves a lot of choking the chicken too.

Emasculating ? Sounds like projection from her.

Would she say the same if they went to dinner and he pulled out ChatGPT and talked at it instead of to her? 'Yay, I contributed to his conversation with a robot!'

As in many things, the end is not the point so much as the process.

That’s a point as well, but doing it the way you want doesn’t really satisfy her, so… you need to find a middle ground
It’s much more pleasant for her to do this with you, even if it’s not without a tool. That’s the important part

Its funny cause before i wouldnt have had a problem with it but they way she put it is kinda interesting lol.

Yeah she went with a healthy point and then drove it weird
I showed it to my gf she laughed, no insecurities when you know though heh. Cause LeBron doesn't need to perform in the bedroom he does his work on the court, others have to do it in other less spacious rooms without millions watching thank fucking God. No viewers opinions when you're there. Like a damn a parole hearing each time, they want to critic each bit. But have fun and make sure it ain't too bad ;)

Well putting it like that is kinda belittling. I hear it as “well, sorry, you ain’t no LeBron James.” Is that the joke?

Not the sentiment though. If the woman wants some fun with a vibrator, go to town! Tell me to jump, and I’ll ask how high. Get your partner to have fun, however they want; it is not that complicated.

Vibrators are fine but when I whip out the premium™️ silicone vagina / asshole combo with a high speed self lubricating vortex cervix and the 36GG BIG TIDDY™️ attachment with Alexa integration I’m ruining he mood 🙄

And they kick you out of the Walmart!
vortex cervix
🤌🤌🤌
with Alexa integration
"I'm about to cum... Alexa play Despacito"
It's because you aren't using the cum collection tray attachment, it's a game changer trust me
- This thread is insane 😂

Emasculated goes a bit far but I kinda get it. It doesnt bother me if a sexual encounter starts with a toy, but "let me grab my vibrator so I can finish" is a night that ends with me feeling like I'm not good enough and probably going to bed feeling bad about myself. It's something thats turned a few dates into one night stands for me when I told them how it made me feel and they were dismissive of my feelings

they were dismissive of my feelings
At least that’s a way to filter out bad people from your life
If they can't get off from PIV and want a vibration to get over the edge, that shouldn't affect your feelings about adequacy. Unless you can vibrate your dick at 500rpm, it's not you.
- You can sort of emulate a vibrator with the bridge of your nose and humming really loud, just saying
- Instructions unclear, phrenum is spasming at about 8hz
It’s way more about anatomy than inadequacy. Many women can’t orgasm from PIV sex.
Personally, I am always delighted when someone I’ve just had sex with wants to orgasm in my presence. Never once hurt my feelings.
- I am trying really hard to not sex shame anyone in this thread, but fuck me, mutual masterbation is almost more intimate than intercourse these days.
Meh if we've been drinking and it's a first encounter, I am pretty sympathetic to the idea that we might not be in the right context to go through the seventeen step incantation to have everyone cum acoustically. It's like onboarding a new employee - you have them make a token MR first and even that's a push for literally day one. Maybe if it's the third or fourth date and they are still just "ok clock is ticking I'm going to break out the big guns," I might take exception, but first sex is always a bit of an ice breaker. Being like "ok stop, I need you to hit it from behind while pinching my nipple and reciting Chaucer for 25 minutes" is... fucking hot, but not necessarily first date material.
Please tell me you were joking. If she brought out the toy you weren't good enough. She might be a bit difficult to get off, but taking it personally? Unless she kicked you to the curb, go back in and try some more!
This is a tough one without further context. Were you making diligent efforts to reciprocate pleasure and they gave even though you felt you were making inroads? Did you make it clear that you wanted to get them off without the vibrator and they were open to that but it wasn't working?
I think the way you felt is fair. I think attentive partners want to reciprocate pleasure and ideally do it with just their presence if the situation allows. I wonder how they would have responded if you said you wanted to try without it or if they felt there would be deeper meaning (rather than pure hedonism) to not using the vibrator.

I often offer to use a vibrator with a partner but they rarely take me up on it.
I really like making my partner cum and it's so much better at it

I should probably use the alt for this, but whatever, I'm a grownup. I really never liked the stimulation from a vibrator, it is just too intense to feel good, sort of irritating and I am not hypersensitive, either, ok with other direct stimulation, fingers, oral. So it's not a universal delight.

While I agree that feeling EMASCULATED by a vibrator is ridiculous, as men are not meant to have vibrating functionality, I think just as many women would feel just as bummed out by it if men did a similar thing. Imagine if a man only got like half of the way there fucking you, then pulled out and was like "oh quick get that super tight fleshlight out so I can cum". Is it really so hard to understand why that might feel bad? Like sure, this fleshlight thing may be tighter than any biological vagina ever could be, but does that really make it not bother you? And even if it doesn't bother you, wouldn't it be nice if that wasn't always necessary?

Because although penises aren't meant to vibrate, and vaginas aren't meant to squeeze like a tight fist, penises ARE "supposed" to please vaginas and vice versa, and if the literal climax of pleasure is not attainable by those means, why are we acting like that's a silly thing to wish was different?

Don't all people, regardless of their own sex or gender, or the gender of their partner, enjoy the idea of bringing their partner to orgasm using their own body and not a device? I have made my girlfriend orgasm manually, orally, penetratively, and with vibrators. They're all fun ways to do it! But if we could only do it with a vibrator, I'd certainly be wishing we could get there other ways too. Is that really so silly? Each method has its own charms. So it seems very insensitive to put down these feelings, and it's also gross to do it with a sports metaphor.

The reality is that it is generally harder for people with a vagina to achieve orgasm than for those with a penis. There are very much evolutionary reasons for that and... let's not talk about that because it is dark as fuck.
In a perfect world? Two (or more) partners will always climax at the same time and everything will be wonderful. But that just isn't reasonable. Maybe its been a while and one partner finishes faster. Maybe its stressful at work and you thought it would work but it just isn't. And maybe you just kind of want the borderline sensory overload that sex toys tend to be capable of.
The reality is that partners should work towards making sure everyone orgasms as much as they want to. If that involves external stimulation with a vibrator while you have vaginal sex? Go for it. If that involves finishing someone off with a handy? Go for it. And so forth.
And if you feel that not being able to make your partner cum the way you want to is a problem? Grow the fuck up. Everyone is different and everyone responds to some stimuli better than others and that can change from week to week. If your partner really likes a vibrator? Awesome, work with that. Integrate it into the fun. Rather than get angry that they don't want you to fingerbang them instead.
- For sure for sure. I hope that my agreement with this sentiment was clear in my post. But there's nothing about that sentiment that precludes someone from also reasonably wishing that they could bring their partner to orgasm without non-organic, non-self implements.
  I'm saying, people shouldn't be averse to using the vibrator - but just because they shouldn't be averse to it doesn't mean that it's bad, dumb, or unreasonable to also wish to not always use the vibrator to orgasm or to have your partner orgasm.
  The fact that its impractical doesn't make it a shameful desire that should be eradicated. Some people wish their partner would fill them up with like, 4 cups of semen. That's unrealistic (impossible). If they say "I don't want to fuck you because you never produce 4 cups of semen like how I'd prefer", then that is stupid and bad behavior, just like not making your partner orgasm with a vibrator just because you wish they didn't need it is stupid and bad. But the wishing in itself should not be condemned.
  I think the assumption that just because the wish exists, anger also exists is part of the problem that leads to condemnation of the wish. "And if you feel that not being able to make your partner cum the way you want to is a problem? Grow the fuck up." - absolutely true, but just because someone wants their partner to cum in a different way than they actually do, doesn't mean they see it as a problem. It may just be a desire or fantasy. Additionally, if that desire is central to their own sexual satisfaction, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to say that that's not wrong of them but rather an irreconcilable sexual difference. If someone really likes fingerbanging girls, but their girl hates it, that's not a situation where either of them is in the wrong or needs to change what they're attracted to - it's just an incompatibility.
- I really don't think it it is harder for vagina owners to achieve orgasm.
  I think it's just that nobody has any fucking idea how they work. Including many of the people that have them.
  It's dead easy if you take the time to learn.

I've dated a couple of girls who can't get off without a vibrator.

It's hard to get mad at that. They've got their thing and it works. If your dick or tongue can't shake at 30 wiggles a second, why complain? So long as we both get off by the end of it, everyone has a good time.

What's the problem?

Equally, I've hooked up with some guys who struggle to get off during sex itself (which may be because the grip one uses while masturbating may be firmer than what one experiences during sex).
Having slept with both women and men, I feel like the pressure to reach orgasm seems like it's bad for everyone. One dude I knew felt super insecure about not getting off, which stemmed from a previous partner taking it personally. It's certainly the case that for some men, it can feel uncomfortable to have sex and not reach orgasm. However, I think that everyone would have a better time if people decoupled satisfaction from orgasm.
If I wanted to be certain that I'd get off, then the use of a vibrator helps a lot. That's not necessarily my goal though; some of the best sex I've ever had didn't result in me reaching orgasm, and I find it frustrating when people don't understand that this is possible (I find this problem more common with men). Of course, that's just personal to me — some people may consider reaching orgasm to be an essential part of "good sex", but that's why good communication is the best skill one can develop for better sex.
- I'm one of those guys that struggles to orgasm. Even masturbating I will sometimes last a really long time. It's more a mood thing than a sensation thing for me. I have to have my mind in the right state to orgasm. The good thing about it is I can have sex for as long as my partner wants often.
  It's odd, because usually men are the ones who leave their partners wanting. For me my partners pretty much always get more than they bargained for, but I'm frequently left without orgasming. It's fine though. It's still plenty enjoyable without it.
- The stories you've lived are the ones that seem more meaningful. For a guy, climax is a given, and sometimes the whole point just for maintenance purposes. The wholesome joy of a thing is made impure by ulterior motives. It took me a while to see it from the other side.

Reading OPs post and the responses.. What even is sex? Are we just rubbing genitals and hoping both parties get off without paying attention to each other?

Even casual sex requires synchrony, alignment, flow, attentiveness etc. That's part of what makes it enjoyable. Climaxing is the outcome of the connection made, however temporary, by that synchrony and alignment.

Treating sex like a race to the climax will only make you worse at it over time. Depriving it of initimacy and spirituality will make it so that you need to chase more and more physical stimulation to make it pleasurable.

The process is as important as the outcome (moreso even). Focus on that process if you want to make the experience better for you and your partner.

You can be intimate with a vibrator.

I would have no issue with vibrator usage, since that's a tool, not a person. But I don't think I want anyone else dunking on my gf while I make the alley-oop.

From the emasculated male perspective, LeBron is the competitor, not your teammate.

While I comple agree with her, you're right that metaphor is kind of ... meh. Like I get what she's trying to say it's just that you can twist that metaphor in some uncomfortable ways.
Btw the magic wand is the answer if you don't like the vibrator idea
Even if the guy just plays basketball as a hobby, I'm walking.

Isn't it all about having pleasant fun together?

Yes, and for me the indirect feeling of the vibrator as part of sex is massive turn on. Also directly in certain positions. Or knowing she use it to get off by herself because being jealous of that would be like her being jealous of my hand.
It is an addition to the fun, like lingerie or lube or anything else.

Life is too short not to have a good vibrator, no matter what bits you have or what bits you are attracted to, doesn't matter.

Excellent prank tool, if nothing else. “Honey, I swear I wasn’t railing scores of whores. I have no idea where the vibrator came from! Please don’t leave, I’ll do anything. Please, I’ve been working so hard to keep us afloat, and we do date night every other night and I love you and the kids. You started smiling again, Jimmy isn’t setting fires anymore, and Alissa is going to graduate soon. Please, just don’t go!”
Ha, classic
- "Do you know how many more of my divorced wives would speak ill of me if it wasn't for that good quality vibrator?!"

I first misread and thought she was using the toy on the guy.

Which can be emasculating in a fun way btw

As a guy, it can be amazing in the right hands. I kind of feel bad for guys who are too closed minded to experiment in the bedroom.
It's like people who only eat meat and potatoes. Which is fine, but there's a whole world out there and so many ways to climax harder than one would think was possible.

As long as my woman has an earth-shattering orgasm, I don't care how she gets there.

If she get multiple earth shattering orgasms, it's even better.

The "win" is figuring out what works for the lady, and there's not a specific manual for each woman.

Guys, in my experience, 60-70% of women need clitoral stimulation to make "it" happen. However, it's not the same playbook for every lady, and each lady generally has a set of reliable "plays" that work.

If you haven't already tried, introduce toys into the process - I have never had a partner regret it.

What the fuck?

Hell no it's way fun.

Or was way fun. I remember it being fun. I don't want to have memories

See, this is so true!

Now someone tell my wife that using a fuck machine in my my ass and nipple clips is super reasonable!

Please and thank you.

She's beautiful